Why so many general education requirements in college?

For vocational school it’s probably not so important, but you’re going to be shaping the minds of tomorrow… like putty, or something. If you’re not well-rounded, maybe you’ll be ignorant about something in the future and pass it on to your future students.

I agree with you, we should only need classes related to the majors. I personally enjoy taking some other classes, but a lot of it is ridiculous.
You need 4 math classes, though?

At my college, there’s only one case for Gen Ed requirements in which you have to take 2 classes from the same field. You have to take a matching pair of classes, such as US History from the start up to Reconstruction for the first class, and then from Reconstruction to present for the second class. There are a few choices for this too, including a few cultural studies, PolSci (This pair is “Intro to Politics and American Political Institutions” and “Introduction to United States and California Governments).

I think the GenEd requirements should be much more broad. Instead of being “You must take 1 class from X field, and one from Y, another from Z, and a couple from A B and C” it should be “You must do 8 classes from 5 different fields not directly related to your major”.
Either way, you become a “well-rounded” student, but in a way somewhat more interesting to you.
So I could enjoy some German, some Anthropology, some Astronomy, some Economics, and some History. Instead of having to pretend I care about cinematography and sociology or speechgiving

They are making up for all teh well rounded stuff you missed in High School while Bush had them teaching you how to pass tests. Now it’s time to learn to think. ESPECIALLY if you are a teacher. You need to teach those wee ones how to think as well. You need to give them better than you got.

I guess so you’re well rounded, but I think it’s a waste of my damn time since I’ve been taking nothing but them for a year and a half and i am siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick of them!

It varries from state to state and depends on the accrediting body.

I’ve written curriculum for both NEASC and ACICS (regional and national accrediting bodies respectively) at both the Associate and Bachelor levels.
The Massachusetts Department of Higher Education and the school’s parent company (Career Education Corporation) also were involved.

Each had their own Gen Ed requirements (some complimentary, some additional). All were intended to offer students a “well-rounded” education.

In some cases, they did address deficiencies in High School education (the college I worked at was geared toward inner-city students with few college options).

Students with significant knowledge of these subjects can sometimes test-out of certain Gen Ed classes, but not always. That may be an option for you. Check with the registrar.

I’m currently overhauling the graphic design curriculum for the Art Institutes continuing education program. No Gen Ed requirements. So after obtaining you initial degree, you may want to continue with certificates to avoid further Gen Eds.

Sometimes classes teach you things indirectly. Algebra, for example, doesn’t just teach Algebra, it teaches you how to break down a problem and solve it using logical steps – not just math problems, either. So much of what I learned later in life (after college) made more sense in a context that I’d learned before, or the lightbulb of inspiration went off because I fit two facts together due to “general” classes I’d taken in school combined with life experience later. If I had taken “only classes that matter,” I wouldn’t have realized that eventually, it ALL matters (to those who think).

And I’d prefer to have thinking people teach me – or any kids I have.

Perhaps if you want only classes that matter to the exact thing you want to do, and no others, college is not for you? (Like if you want a burger, don’t go to a seafood restaurant.) Maybe a trade school? College isn’t for everyone.

And GA to you, @Judi. They have to learn something beyond how to take a standardized test SOMETIME, pity it has to be in college.

It gets down to education for learning vs education for employment.

Do teachers need to be educated people or trained people?

@PandoraBoxx that is a whole different question worth asking on Fluther. I believe good teachers need to be both trained and educated.

To answer this question I agree with all the “well rounded” answers. Especially if you are going to be an educator, @laureth summed it up very nicely.

The purpose of higher education for centuries has been the the expansion of knowledge and improvement of the mind. It has only been in the last couple of generations that it has devolved into job training. If .you wanted to be a preschool teacher, I am sure you could have found an appropriate fine arts class to fulfill your gen ed requirement. Did you choose Art of the Western World because it met at 10 and Beginning Piano was at 8am.

God forbid a teacher receive a “well rounded” education.

So that our nation might cease to be populated by scientifically-illiterate dumbfucks? Slim chance, I know.

College is not for your career—at least, mostly not. If you want job training, go to a vocational school. A liberal arts education is designed to prepare people to understand many things. It is designed to teach you general knowledge.

However, even if you want to be a preschool teacher, you need to know about a lot of things. Kids will ask you all kinds of questions—and they might be about anything. With your attitude towards education, you probably won’t be able to answer many of them. I know I wouldn’t want someone with your attitude as my preschool child’s teacher.

Not to mention that education is the single most important predictor of future income. The more education you have, and the broader the subject matter, the better your income will be. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with 3 and 4-year-olds? You never want to run your own daycare center? You never want to be involved in the broader community? Just sit at home, feet up, watching TV or playing with your Wii?

Do you never want to be able to invest your savings (or even have savings)? Do you never want to be able to balance your checkbook or figure out if the bank is stiffing you?

I wouldn’t be coming down so hard on you, except the attitude of your question is so complaining, I don’t think you really want to know why a general education is valuable. You just want people to support your prejudice. Not gonna happen. At least, not from me, nor from many others here.

You should be embracing your education. You should be curious about many things. You should wish you could spend the rest of your life in college—being paid to learn whatever you feel like learning. Where does your disinterest come from? Where did this attitude towards life come from? Did people around you kill your curiosity when you were a child?

If you ever do become a preschool teacher, please take this advice. Never, never, never tell a child to stop asking so many questions. The first time you hear those words come out of your mouth, you should quit your job and find something more suitable, like, I don’t know, mattress testing? No, maybe not. That might require you to describe how you feel about the mattress using more adjectives than “good” and “bad.”

Oh God, I am such a horrible person. I should be kind to you and try to help you see the joy in learning, instead of dunning you. It just shocks me so much that you have somehow missed out on the joy of learning. You must have had terrible teachers or schools in the past. This is just a sign of the failing education system. What shall we do? Lament, lament.

@daloon: “You should wish you could spend the rest of your life in college—being paid to learn whatever you feel like learning.”

Amen to that my friend.

There are many great answers here, but I would add that this is a democracy, and a democracy fails without a well educated populace. The realm of knowledge is continually expanding, and among other things that means that we need more Gen Ed classes, not less. To make effective decisions as citizens we need to understand math, science, social studies, even art and literature. I fear that the education many people receive is becoming too specialized, we are in danger of creating a nation of technicians, with no understanding of the broader impact of their work or of the decisions they make in the voting booth. Engineering schools are often the worst example of this, and I think there are too many engineers with a very limited notion of science outside of their narrow specialty, or of politics, international relations, geography, history….. It is unfortunate that some Gen Ed classes are taught by inadequately prepared grad students or bored professors instead of committed professors who promote a real interest in the material, but this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have to take Gen Ed classes. In fact we probably need more, and more specific, Gen Ed requirements. At the school where I got my BS one could graduate without ever taking (or testing out of) biology, and that is a travesty in any modern educational institution. In other words, suck it up and try to enjoy it and read daloon and laureth’s answers.

College is about education as a whole; it’s not just an elaborate training facility for your future career. Besides, I’m a Physics major, but if I went through my entire career without learning how to do anything except integrals, I wouldn’t be a very good Physicist.

Some of the most interesting classes I had were gen ed requirements. Anthropology, psychology, world cultures…I want to go back to college!

@MissAusten, would you have not taken them if they weren’t requirements?

One thing I think is good about gen eds is that you might find something that you never thought you’d like and end up pursuing it instead. For example I thought I wanted to do geology until I realized I hated chemistry, calculus, and physics. But along the way I took a philosophy class and realized I’m waaaaaaaaaaay more interested in philosophy than I am in geology, so that ruled out geology for me and I’m much happier because of it.

@Sarcasm I really like your idea about being able to choose 8 course from 5 different fields instead of being required to take specific classes.

@daloon Wow, feisty much? You have NO idea if I will or will not be a good preschool teacher by reading my question. In fact, I’m already substituting and volunteering all the time. My mom has ran an in-home daycare for most of my life so I KNOW kids are always curious and asking questions. I welcome that! But I’m pretty sure they are not going to care about my knowledge of who painted such and such a painting, when, where, and why they painted it! I would have much rather have taken a pottery class or something instead of Art in the Western World! But no, it was the latter that was a gen ed requirement. I enjoyed a lot of my general education classes and can even see why I needed some of them (biology, psychology, etc). But Phys Ed? Come on! Being able to teach (or just about any other career) has nothing to do with me being able to run a mile in so many minutes! Now, I could see having to take a Movement in the Classroom class, but not both! Yes, teachers need to be educated, knowledgeable and trained. However, you need a heck of a lot more than that! You need to be loving, caring, patient, understanding, sensitive and have a passion to teach young children. There are plenty of intelligent, bright people that would never have what it takes to be in the early childhood classroom. I can and will be a great preschool teacher and a well-rounded person, but I’m pretty sure I could do this without taking FOUR higher level math classes! And what’s this about getting paid to be in college? Someone needs to tell me how to do this because the last time I checked, I’m thousands of dollars in debt! I am sure as hell NOT getting paid to go to school! BTW my degree will allow me to teach, administrate, and run a daycare (and yes, I can balance a check book)!

Maybe I should have worded this question differently. I have changed schools 3 times. Once due to location and once due to financial aid issues. I have had way more than my fair share of gen ed classes. Each school has had a different set of requirements, thus setting my graduation date back.

@Sarcasm I don’t know if I would have taken them or not. I chose them from whatever classes were available to meet the requirements because they sounded interesting. The world cultures series took three semesters and was required for everyone. It was a sort of history/literature/religion class. When I was in high school, there were classes I chose to take, like anatomy and zoology, because I liked those subjects. I’d like to think I would have also chosen to take other subjects in college even if I didn’t have to. Unless they met at 8:00 in the morning.

@mramsey You can never tell what knowledge will be useful and what won’t. I’ve done all kinds of stuff just for fun in my life, learning all kinds of apparently stupid things at the time. Later, they turned out to be very important for my work. The internet was a play toy when I learned about it, and you can see what that’s become.

I’m not going to point out specifically how all the things you pooh-poohed could turn out to be useful in a child education career. I’m sure you can do that yourself, if you want to.

I can see that your reaction might be one of frustration because you have had to satisfy the requirements of three different institutions. I can see that you are scared of running up a lot of debt, although I am fairly confident that you will pay it off fairly quickly, if you are as knowledgeable about money as you seem to think.

I don’t know why you couldn’t get the schools to accept your other schools’ gen ed requirements. I don’t know why you changed schools so much. I do know that life has a funny way of throwing curves, and that your learning will never be useless. You’ll see.

@daloon What’s with “if you are as knowledgeable about money as you seem to think” ? All I said was that I can balance a check book. Geez. You really like to try to push buttons, don’t you? You’re acting like just because I’d prefer not to be required to take certain classes that I won’t be good at my career. There’s is no way you could possibly know that.
I like learning and enjoy a lot of my classes but I think it’s crap that I have to pay money to learn how to exercise properly. It’s great that classes like that are offered but it should be an option not a requirement.
Yes I can understand being required to take different classes to be a well-rounded student. However, I think it should be set up more like @Sarcasm‘s idea.

Maybe if you weren’t sure what you wanted to do, you should have tried working in different fields while saving money and then you would have been able take a straight shot at your education instead of making a couple of false starts. It’s easier to moan about having to start over a couple of times than taking responsibility for your lack of preparation for college. Since you have laid this out here, expect criticism. If you went to a state institution or received financial aid, we all have contributed to your education.

BTW like a gen ed music class, a kinesthesiology, dance, movement or exercise class needed for a PE-type gen ed class would be very useful for a pre-school teacher.

If someone is going to become a teacher, even a preschool teacher, they will be going to inservices and training classes of one sort or another the rest of their career. Taking Gen Ed classes can be a training ground for you to learn how to enjoy all of these courses, formal and informal, you will find yourself taking throughout your career because you are told to by the school you work at or because your state says you need classroom hours to retain your certification.

I became a systematic terrestrial malacologist but still had to take Philosophy, Psychology, Art History, Chinese History, and Calculus in order to get my degree. I believe that these classes not only did me no harm, they actually opened my eyes to different ways of viewing the world, which has helped my creativity and thus my ability to pursue my interest in malacology.

What struck me as terrible, however, was that in graduate school one teacher gave us a test the first day of class on world geography, a useful subject for field biologists who end up doing work all over the world. Of 15 students I was the only one who passed it.

Quite frankly, all of us need to remember that while we may spend 8 hours a day for thirty years working at our careers, we also spend 8 hours a day doing other things, some of which become more important to us than our careers and lead to what we do once we can afford to retire and live on another 20 or 30 years or more after that.

Besides, how can you vote on important decisions dealing with everything from the environment to medical care if you don’t understand the consequences of the various choices?

@galileogirl I only changed my major once. About 80% of students change their major at least once. How can you expect a high schooler to know what they want to do with the rest of their lives? A lot of people have false starts in all areas of life. There was no lack of preparation for college on my part. I thought I knew what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I researched the career path and was dead set on it since my sophomore year in high school. When I actually got into the major, I hated it. How in the world can you say I should have been more prepared? How can I have possibly known I wouldn’t actually like it since I had never tried it before?
I COULDN“T take a dance or movement class in place of PE. My only option was PE! I would have gladly taken once of those classes in place of phys ed if I had a chance. I can see how one of those classes would have related more to my field, but like I said before I don’t see how me being able to run a mile in so many minutes does.
What I am trying to say is that there should be more options when it comes to the required general education classes!

It’s just so difficult to believe you were prepared and had no choices since my experience in the community college/California State University systems was that there many choices for Gen Ed classes, one of which led me to a second major and graduation in 3 years. The only way I can see you would not have a lot of options is if you went to a very small and/or specific purpose college, neither an appropriate choice for someone unsure of her interests

Face it kiddo, you can whine all you want, your frustration comes from within yourself. It has nothing to do with the requirements of higher education. Until you deal with that some of the requirements of being a teacher, parent or citizen are going to be perceived as stupid or useless and add to your dissatisfaction.

@galileogirl How many times do I have to repeat myself? I was sure of my interests, as sure as a high schooler can be. And what’s wrong with changing your mind? Looks like you did it too. Business woman to teacher? I can’t believe you were able to get a degree for teaching in 3 years. Unless of course you already had your gen ed courses finished?

I went to a private school so that probably has something to do with it.

I think overall the idea is to make sure your not a one trick pony that simply learned a trade skill. College is supposed to (and imo has) change the way you think and help you to think more critically and more open-minded. If it was’t for all the english classes and math classes you wouldn’t have as easy a time handling complex situations (math) or understanding exactly how to express yourself (english, fine arts) ,

@mramsey i have noticed that people on this thread are a bit unpleasant. have you? damn. there isnt anything wrong with changing your major. i keep changing mine and i deal with the consequences and i’m allowed to complain and so are you! we’re the ones that have to sit through the classes and do the work. good god. and you’re right, how the hell are you supposed to decide what to do with your life when you’re 18 years old?

@deni – Actually, most of us on this thread went to college and took all those Gen Ed courses and have gone on to have careers. We know the value of those courses in the way an 18 year old does not.

I, too, went to a private college, one that was relatively small. Sometimes I had to register for a class that I wasn’t particularly excited by so I could meet my degree requirements. Even so, I approached all of my classes with enthusiasm and hard work (well, maybe not so much enthusiasm for Organic Chemistry, but I did indeed work hard in that class). I discovered often that I learned at least something from each class. Some of what I have learned has been useful only as a conversation starter, some has been more useful than I ever expected, and some was useful in that it confirmed to me what direction I wanted to head (away from that subject).

I have no problem with folks changing majors. I didn’t, but both my brother (engineering to international studies to law) and my sister (architecture to English) did. I suspect that most people on this thread don’t have a problem with folks changing majors. However, some people are having a problem with people complaining about taking Gen Ed courses even though others have tried to explain their value.

If nothing else, consider these “unnecessary” classes to be training for the real world, where you have to learn all sorts of stuff you have no interest in, such as understanding how to do your taxes, whether a Roth IRA or a regular IRA will be a better choice for you, why you should plant certain plants only in the shade in your yard, how to get along with the science teachers at the school where you have been hired to teach pre-school, why a cake didn’t rise when it should have, and how to convince a doctor that you are ill by being able to communicate your symptoms in a way he/she understands.

Personally I think pre-school teachers should have a wide-ranging albeit shallow knowledge of all sorts of subjects so they can take advantage of the interests and abilities their students bring with them into the class room. How you teach these little ones will have an enormous impact on how they feel about school and themselves in the future.

@mramsey The 3 year degree was a Business BS in Accountimg and MIS. (year round classes-average class load 20+ units while working 25 hrs/wk) The 1 year teaching program came a dozen years later when I got a multi-subject credential and single subject credentials in Business and Social Studies. In the last decade I have added certification for online teaching and teaching English Language Learners, an additional 30 units. That doesn’t even count the ceu’s every year to for credential renewal.

Believe it kiddo and if you don’t like to take required classes, maybe you should rethink your career choice.

@galileogirl OMG. Just because I complained about having to take certain classes does not mean I would rather change my career choice. Am I not allowed to have an opinion about the classes I am required to take? I will be done with school after this year and will be teaching next year. The preschool I am substituting at has already said they would hire me in a heartbeat. They are the second school to tell me I have a great resume. Even before I realized teaching is what I want to do, I gained all kinds of experience by volunteering at various places and working at The Children’s Institute in Pittsburgh. Am I not allowed to be frustrated with school? Of course, I am not going to give up and I am going to keep working and learning to be the best teacher that I can. Certainly I am allowed to feel overwhelmed, fed up, and like what I am going through at this moment in time is never ending. I am sure you (as well as everyone on here) has felt this at some point during their schooling and/or life in general. You keep suggesting that I change my career choice? Hell no. Especially when I have come this far and I KNOW I have what it takes to be a great teacher.
I am sure you have complained about something, probably many things, in your life. Does that mean you gave up? Or did you keep pushing through?
I was not asking for career advice. I simply wanted to start a discussion on ged ed requirements.There’s no way I would ever take life-changing advice from someone who doesn’t know me, my heart, my passion and my abilities.
BTW I would have to take gen ed classes for any career that requires a degree. And I’m not going to drop out of college just because I don’t like a class I have to take. geez

Sometimes classes are less about the subject and more about the methodology employed in learning the subject matter. Everything stretches your brain in a different way.

@mramsey – A discussion about gen ed requirements is one thing. Saying “what about all those darn general ed requirements?” is something else again and sounds an awful lot like whining. Yes, you are allowed to complain to your friends, but please don’t confuse a gripe session with “having a discussion.”

You also asked “Whats your opinion?” Most of us are of the opinion that those classes are good for you and that you should take them and try to find the value in them, rather than only take classes directly related to your major. The problem is that you don’t like our opinion and they way in which you are responding shows your youth.

I hated Anatomy and Physiology but it was a class directly related to my major, which was Biology. Did I think I should have been able to skip it? No, I needed to learn how biologists in that field think and work. OTOH, I also hated Introduction to Philosophy which had nothing to do with my major. However, having taken it I don’t have to stand around looking stupid when someone mentions Kant, Socrates or Metaphysics. I know a bit about what they are, thanks to my Gen Ed class.

No one is telling you to actually drop out of school or don’t become a teacher. What they are actually trying to tell you is that Gen Ed classes will prove to be valuable to you in the future and will make you a better teacher, so buckle down and find some good in them.

@Darwin Thanks for your opinion.

I know now not to post anything that seems to be complaining or too whiney. Unless of course it’s something the general population of Fluther likes to complain about too.

And though most that have posted here are saying that every single class required is worth while, I still agree with the ones who have suggested the idea of being able to pick so many classes from so many fields. Being able to have a little say in what my gen eds are would have made me a lot happier and yet still a well-rounded person.
And if every single gen ed requirement is worth while, then why aren’t all colleges requiring the same courses? Obviously the board who decides what the gen ed requirements should be for a specific college has different opinions then those of other colleges. So can’t I have my opinion that some classes are just not worth while, and other courses are?

You could also have deliberately chosen a college that offered more variety in gen ed classes.

All places of higher learning are concerned with is the bottom line. It is the worst position to be in you want a degree not only do they make you pay for it but you have to work too hard for it. If you fail you still have to pay for the course. On average most Gen-Ed classes will take up about two years of a typical B.S four year degree program. The institution is essentially holding your life hostage for two years why they rape your wallet then they will let you learn what you really want to learn. Gen-Ed requirements are COMPLETELY unethical.