For a man, is it really that much harder to deal with a woman's death in war?

No, it isn’t and saying it is is baloney…not everyone who fights in our wars is even of an era or a culture where that is somehow relevant…it’s archaic baloney and is used as a barrier for full sexual equality in the army…and if you’re unable to be a soldier because you can’t handle women dying, you and your ‘sensitivity’ shouldn’t be in the army…and oh so sadly and ironically, these sentiments go down the toilet when soldiers rape and kill women as a natural part of war

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/08/congos-shame-rape-used-as-tool-of-war/

* Strokes chin *

There might be some validity to this. I want to hear some answers before I make a decision.

Someone has to bake bread. Who is going to service the soldiers when they come home?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir yea, I don’t think the whole “women in war” thing has anything to do with seeing your fellow solder-et fall. I think it has everything to do with the rape and torturer. I don’t think anyone wants to see that happen, male or female, but most likely it would be the female and would probably happen more often if women were in “the shit.”

@SeventhSense I’m so glad to know you’re joking.

Well I guess the neighhbor’s wife can fill in a pinch. :)

I don’t think it is harder. I think it’s hard to see people you love and care for die, no matter what. I am sure there are people who see women as harmless, innocent beings at the level of children. But in combat – I believe – it’s about the person next to you, whatever gender.

Maybe it might be because they would associate a woman more as their sister…but I’m sure they do that with the men as brothers.
I think it would be difficult to see anyone die. It could very well have been them, which I assume is a thought that crosses their mind.

Well I think anyone on the front lines regardless of gender needs to have a particular fortitude. It takes immense control to keep cool under the pressure of impending death, so who ever is best for the job. The US Armed Services still do not do a good enough job of screening for that and as a result we have unnecessary casualties.

I don’t think it’s as much about seeing them die but treating them differently while they are still alive. The guys may tend to look out more for a female, or harass them or look down on them for being a female.

When I was in Iraq there were things like that going on. Some of the girls flirted their way out of doing the less desirable jobs, or got favors from the guys for flirting with them. Then people inevitably paired up, which changed their relationship with other people around them, etc.

Then there’s the simple physical fact that a lot of girls are a lot smaller than guys, so if you are out in combat and already have 40 pounds of gear on, a 120 pound girl will probably not be able to drag a 200 pound male to safety if he were to go down, etc. A lot of the girls I was over there with could barely stand up with their battle armor on, carrying weapons, etc.

Of course I speak in generalities, not every girl will flirt her way out of things, there are small guys as well, etc. But I think there are some things that don’t need to be equal between the sexes just to be politically correct.

@StellarAirman it’s not just to be politically correct – there are women that want to do front line combat they should have their wish granted if they’re capable

If a woman can’t carry the load then she shouldn’t be there, but if she can, then she should have the opportunity to be anything or go anywhere she wants to go.

There are always shirkers, some get out of the dirty work by flirting, some by other means, doesn’t have much to do with male or female. I have worked with plenty of male shirkers.

Women should strive for equal treatment and equality. That is where I disagree with feminism which to me wants special treatment in some instances but true equality in others.

@rooeytoo well you can’t lump all feminists together, there are different ideologies and you should educate yourself on them if you’re going to make sweeping generalizations…things like ‘special treatment’ and ‘true’ equality are all in the eyes of beholders…and what I might consider ‘true’ equality you might consider ‘special’ treatment and vice versa

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – How many ways can you define equality?

The dictionary defines feminism as “The advocacy of women’s rights.” That is certainly not the same as equality.

It is self proclaimed feminists who are demanding paid maternity leave, government subsidized child care and on. That is not equality, it is special treatment and does nothing except make it more difficult for a woman who simply wants an equal shot at a job or other opportunity. It means a lot of small business will not hire a woman of child bearing age because they cannot afford to pay someone who is not working.

If there are different branches of feminists who actually want equality not special treatment, then perhaps they are mislabeling themselves or the dictionary definition should be altered to reflect their pursuits.

I have been in situations in the seventies where I am present (or arrive shortly after) when men, women and children have been killed. It has always affected me far more to see a woman or child killed than an adult male. Most of the men with me react in much the same manner.

@rooeytoo the dictionary is an outdated mode of defining much culturally related…and different dictionaries define it differently…feminism is about advocating for women’s rights but it is so much more than that…and besides it is about advocating for women’s rights when those rights are inferior to rights of men…therefore what we’re striving for through advocacy is equality because women do not have it…reason why paid maternity leave is demanded is because, sadly, it is still the women who are expected to provide child care and go to work…women can go to work now but they’re still seen as the main caretaker of children…what should be available is paid parental leave, for parents of all genders but as long as it’s the woman that gets to do all the childrearing then it’s the woman who asks for maternity leave…and the same argument goes for government subsidized childcare…see what happened was that the feminist movement was able to get women into the labor force (well white women as women of color were always a part of the labor force) but in reality the expectations of women didn’t change…and what I, as a ‘self-proclaimed’ feminist argue for is full equality meaning anyone can and should go to work and anyone can and should stay at home and anyone can and should have subsidized government child care…and to me these are things any parent, no matter the gender, should want and husbands would do better to join their feminist wives in obtaining rights that would help their children…

@DarkScribe because you reacted this way? I don’t think so…though in our culture, this is the expected response, the military is all about doing away with culture, differences, expected responses…it is about building an army of people that stand and fight together in extraordinary situations where these cultural ways will not serve them well…

@Simone_De_Beauvoir DarkScribe because you reacted this way? I don’t think so…

Yes, my impression is because I reacted this way, as did most of the men with me. How can you ‘not think so’ about my response to anything? I made no judgment, just recounted my experience. I served in the military and I served with women. You have no idea what my overall attitude is as I have never discussed it. My “reaction” is more emotional when women or children are hurt or killed. Many men regard other men as capable of taking care of themselves, but women and children as needing the protection of men and special consideration from them. This masculine response is centuries old and unlikely to change rapidly. It is sometimes referred to as “Chivalry”.

Okay you are asking for special treatment for mothers and/or fathers, not women. To me equality has nothing to do with any of that. That is part of the feminist deal. Equality means I get an equal chance at any job that I am able to perform and at the same pay. Plus more than I feel like writing here.

But I as an employer or fellow employee, do not want to subsidize or cover for you while you have or children nor do I want to subsidize their care. That is not my belief and why I am not a feminist.

@DarkScribe yes I’m quite familiar with the concept.

@rooeytoo being a feminist or not being a feminist is not about about running a small business..sounds like you’re more anti-rights for children or parents but not women

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – I don’t want to be confused with women who want special treatment. I want equality. I am anti-special treatment because it makes it more difficult for those of us who simply want equality. How can you be asking for equality in one instance and demanding something that is not equal in another instance.

Which is what I said in the first place, I am not a feminist, I am an equalist.

Small business, large business no business should have to give special treatment to women.

@rooeytoo yet you didn’t mention anything in mind that has to be women-specific – maternity leave doesn’t have to be maternity leave…childcare is for children…

Men are not missing out on jobs because they are men, so it is irrelevant to me if they start demanding paternity leave. Maternity leave is just that because only women bear and nurse the children so it is women specific, men can’t do it for them.

So feminists who take a job and then say I am pregnant now you must pay me even though I am not going to work and I will have to take time off to feed the baby and I might have to stay home if the child is sick. But I can do the job as well as any man.
That is not equality, it is a rare man who takes a job with those provisions. It equals special treatment not equality.

@rooeytoo not everyone nurses their children and even then not for a long time – yet even after that short period of time they’re still expected to be the primary caretakers…the woman you describe can of course do the job as good as a man…I don’t think one should take a job and immediately take parental leave (I just started a job, a two year granted position and I was aware that it’s a very busy job, one that takes a bit to learn and leaving for maternity leave would be a bad move so I understand) ...yet one shouldn’t be afraid to do this…after all some people want children and what you’re suggesting is just keeping child bearing women at home or at work and in fear of getting pregnant and being fired..there is a reason we’ve fought for maternity and paternity leave…since men can’t yet bear and nurse children, they don’t get the ‘special’ treatment…I thought society is there to ensure it continues