How to pick a date for the wedding when my mother keeps giving me a hard time?

If you are paying for the wedding, have the wedding when you want it.

If she’s paying for the wedding, she gets a say.

We are paying for the whole thing on our own. Neither of our parents are contributing.

Well, I think some of her points make sense, BUT this is YOUR wedding. I don’t know your mother, but if you do pick June she will probably suck it up, won’t she? If she is the one inviting the guests to her daughters wedding, meaning if she is paying and the invitations will be written that way, and the wedding might reflect on her, then I guess you should consider her feelings about how other family members might react to the date. But, I hesitate to say that, because there are always relatives who have a problem with something, it is impossible to please everyone. Can you just do late may or early July?

Since you are paying and planning you could just ask your brother and sister if they care, if they don’t then I wouldn’t either.

I would not change the date because of a death in that month, unless there is an unveiling that is going to make it difficult for people to attend both.

If you’ve been engaged for a couple of years and own a house together, then it could be that your mom considers you already married, and is less than enthusiastic about it. If you’re paying for the wedding yourself, then your mother’s role in it is less than what it would be in a traditional wedding, and perhaps she’s thinking she will have more responsibilities than she will have.

Your sister’s prom, brother’s birthday, and uncle’s demise aren’t factors. I would avoid the weekend of your sister’s graduation, since you mom may have a party for that. I think June is a perfectly lovely month to get married, and you will make a lovely bride. Stick your fingers in your ears and say “lalalalala” when naysayers approach. Your mom will get over it.

In the end, it’s your wedding, your bills, your decision.

But consider: is it going to cause trouble for people in the family if they have to decide whether to go to your sister’s graduation or your wedding? Will it cause strife if you upstage both your siblings this way, or if you ignore your mother’s wishes? Will people be too upset by your uncle’s death to enjoy your wedding?

Any decision you have will have consequences. Think about what the consequences for having this wedding in June will be, and see if you can live with them.

It’s your wedding, and your and your finance’s day, not her day. I think as long as you don’t have it on the exact date of your little sister’s prom or graduation, your younger brother’s birthday or the anniversary of the date you uncle passed away, she really won’t have anything to complain about. If you’re feeling generous, ask you siblings how they feel about the date you choose, but at the end of the day, it’s your decision, and you should have it when you think is best.

I agree with @PandoraBoxx that the issues your mom is bringing up really aren’t the problem. Maybe ask her “Well, Mom, when do you think we should have the wedding?” – her answer might tell you her real reason for disliking June, which might help you to convince her that June is definitely what you want. Or hell, she might have a really good reason that some other time would be perfect, and you’ll go with that. :)

Remind her of who’s wedding this is and go with whatever date you choose. Nothing like being a June bride! Go for it!!!

I agree that if the mother of the bride is putting off the wedding she’s not too enthusiastic about it happening at all. Is there any month that isn’t somebody’s birthday, anniversary or special occasion? MOB’s are usually interested in setting a date more quickly than years after the engagement, yours is remarkably patient. I think you need to figure out why.

There’s a reason why June is the most popular month for weddings. If you have your heart set on June, go for it.

Consider, though: June is always full of conflicts for just those same reasons. You will lose some guests at your wedding, and you will have to put up with your mother’s carping unless she is a gracious enough lady to accept what’s done once it’s done and lend you her full support.

And the date is not just once but forever. There’ll be conflicts when you want to celebrate your anniversary, too: other family members’ events, and someday your own kids’ proms, graduations, and so on.

That said, there is really no such thing as a convenient time for the big events: weddings, births, funerals. But people do drop everything and come because they are the big events. In the end it’s entirely up to you.

Why don’t you get in a discussion with her and see if there is an underlying reason for her reluctance? Then if you can resolve it, or want to ignore it, and don’t choose a date that is the same as one of the other events, have your June wedding. It’s up to you.

If I decide to go ahead with a June wedding is there anything appropriate and special that I can do for my uncle that passed away or would that be too upsetting for the guests?

It is never inapporpriate in my opinion to mention a family member who is gone and that you wish could be there. In my experience, it is appreciated by those who are mourning.

Don’t pick the anniversary of his death as your wedding date.

Is it possible your mother doesn’t care for your husband-to-be and is therefore making excuses?

You could create a Memory table at the reception with photos of your uncle, grandparents, etc., anyone else who has passed away, with flowers and candles. You could also list them in the program.

I disagree somewhat with @PandoraBoxx I would not make a table with photos of your uncle who passed away. This is your wedding day and that is where everyone’s thoughts should be for those 6 hours. If he had a favorite song it might be nice to have it played and list it in the program in his honor. But, a wedding day is a day to celebrate life and future.

Do what you want to do. It’s your wedding. Your mother will have to deal with it.

M….it’s hard to answer this without knowing what your relationship is like with your mother otherwise. Is she always difficult? If not, I’d seriously consider her concerns.

@breedmitch No that’s definitely not the case. She loves him to pieces. I think she just doesn’t like having so much on her plate at one time. She’s stressed out that so many things are happening in the same month.

@Val123 I have a good relationship with my mom. She’s usually supportive (unless she’s in one of her moods). But she does tend to find negetives in almost anything.

Pffft! Sounds exactly like my Mom! “It’s always something!” I sold my house “But you need it for your taxes!” Three years later I buy a new house, “I don’t think you’re ready for that!”

Anyway, well….it kind of does sound like she has a point. Is she going to want to be involved in the plans? If so, to try and work that and a graduation AND a prom AND a birthday would be a lot for her. She’d probably make it rain on your wedding! How important is it to you to have it in June?

Ask her what she thinks a better choice might be. She might be right.

@ItalianPrincess1217 You could always have it the first weekend in July if that’ll make her happy. :) Especially if you live somewhere where the weather won’t be that different… I used to live in Rochester, NY and now I live in Massachussetts, and in the summer a few weeks doesn’t make a big difference, weather-wise. (It’s the totally random bouts of torrential rain you have to worry about in springtime!)

Certainly the idea of a June wedding being the ideal has been gotten away from in recent years, with many people getting married in May, August or September. And as someone who gets easily overwhelmed by over-scheduling, I can empathize with her. Perhaps you can reassure her that she does not have to do anything but show up? Or perhaps you can decide that maybe another month will be acceptable? Or maybe 2011 is looking good? In any case, make sure the decision you make is one you are happy with.

Getting back to the uncle question, I think a simple mention of him in a toast or a song in his memory would be all that should be done. It will be two years after his death and while I think it is lovely to remember him, I agree with jleslie that I wouldn’t overwhelm people with it.

@Val123, we have the same mother.

@PandoraBoxx Wow. LOL!! I wonder if I’m like that and don’t know it….I don’t think so. I hope not…it’s a bummer!

It is scary, and sometimes it creeps out when I least expect it.

@fireinthepriory: The first weekend in July 2010, the 4th is Friday, as in that’s Independence Day weekend. Assuming @ItalianPrincess1217 is located in the US, people definitely have other plans that weekend.

@ItalianPrincess1217, do you have a place lined up for the reception? In some areas, that dictates the wedding date. It can be hard to get a place lined up.

@La_chica_gomela Orrrrrr @ItalianPrincess1217 has free fireworks at her wedding!!!

Haha, ok, potentially peops will be BBQing… :)

If you’re looking to save some cash, the second Saturday in September 2010 might not be booked. I’m guessing not too many brides will be clamoring for that date and you might be able to get a discounted rate with locations and caterers.

@PandoraBoxx No I haven’t booked the reception place yet. I guess I should do that soon. I know some places are booked years in advanced.
@La chica gomela I am located in the US. In New York actually. So weather plays a big factor in my wedding. June is basically the safest month in NY as far as weather is concerned.

@breedmitch If all locations happen to be booked until September I might consider it but I just can’t picture a wedding in autum with summery, bright colors. Isn’t that kind of strange? Or is it acceptable?

I was making a bad joke. Sorry. The second Saturday in September is the 11th.

I think autumn weddings do tend to have more “autumnal” colors if you want a summery wedding, then late May or June is probably the best in the Northeast..

Jeweltones for the fall can be lovely.

@breedmitch It crossed my mind that it might’ve been 9–11 but I never checked. Good joke though lol :)

An Autumn wedding sounds beautiful, actually! It would be very unique! You could have a gold wedding dress! Use the colors in my Avatar! And as far as “acceptable,” if it’s acceptable to you then it’s acceptable. O. Wait. There are mild “superstitions” that surround weddings (it’s bad luck if it rains on your wedding day, etc. it rained like a banshee on my first wedding day! That marriage went down in flames ten years later! ) So, I’m thinking the reason people usually have a May or June wedding is because it’s spring, and the beginning of something new. Autumn might have overtones of something is ending already! It’s silly, but it just popped into my head…... I know! July 24th! That’s mah birfday!

@Val123 Sounds great except for the whole autum colors and gold wedding dress. I’ve already purchased all my decor (which is pinks, greens, and oranges) and I also already have my dress. So that’s why I’m really pushing for a summer month. To change it all now would be costly.

Oh! I see! Man, from the time Rick (my second husband, whom I’m married to now) proposed to the day we got married was about 3 weeks. I wore a dress I’d picked up at a garage sale a couple years back that I’d never worn! And we got married at the lake in July. I was really, really worried about the weather—it consistently breaks 100 here in July. But the day turned out beautiful! I wish you all the best, and I’d like to know how it all works out…

I think you should stick with June if you want summer and summer colors Although, what about May 29th? May is a wonderful Spring Month. Maybe that date would calm your mom down, like how people price thing $4.99 so it is not $5.00. Maybe just the idea of MAY will be enough?

Are you planning an outdoor wedding?

I think the suggestions to at least attempt to talk to your mom and see what month she thinks is a better option is a good idea. You will get the chance to tell her calmly also why June is important to you, you will both feel heard, and in the end she may see how important it is to you and support you in the decision.

Also, good idea to check the places you want to have the wedding and make sure they are available for the dates you want, June is very popular in NY.

@Val123 Wow! 3 weeks? I wish my engagement was that short! I feel like it’s been put on hold a few too many times. But yes, I will definietly keep you updated and let you know how it all works out :)
@JLeslie May might be a good idea. I’m just praying it doesn’t rain! It tends to do that a lot in April and May. But I think I’ll mist likely opt for an indoor wedding anyway. I have bad luck with weather. I’m going to sit down with my mother soon and give it one last shot. Wish me luck!

People associate May with May flowers, I think it has a good feeling. My mom and dad married late May in NY.

I agree – late May can be a lovely time to be married.

There’s no second guessing with the weather. My son and his wife planned a lovely wedding at her parents’ home in Vermont in late August. The weather should have been lovely – still warm but with a hint of cool in the evenings. Instead it was hot as hell and humid (real New Jersey summer weather) and there was a thunderstorm as we moved in to the tent for the reception. You know what? It was a beautiful wedding and everybody had a great time – except for the waiters who had to carry dishes from the catering tent to the reception tent.

You can only control so much. If late May is good for you Mom and o.k. with you, don’t worry too much about the weather.

P.S. This question is so much fun! I love being a wedding coach when it’s not my family.

@janbb You should be my wedding planner ;)

@ItalianPrincess1217 I would love it! (As long as I don’t have to actually deal with disgruntled family members.)

The last Saturday in June is the 26th. That’s pretty late for proms, graduations, etc. Won’t they all be over by then? The only thing left to worry about is the anniversary of Uncle’s death. As long as it isn’t the 26th, you’re good: June wedding, no conflicts, everybody happy. Yes?

If it’s really about your mother’s being overstressed with all the events, just reassure her that you will take care of things. A wedding in the family is stressful no matter when it happens. It really won’t be more or less so a month earlier or later. Tell her that the longer you wait, the more time there is to obsess and fret over it, so why not get it over with sooner?

@Jeruba The 26th is actually my little brother’s birthday. But any earlier in the month and we have the risk of running into my unlce’s death date or my sister’s prom, etc. I’m starting to seriously consider either late May or mid July.

How old is your little brother? If he’s over 12, then he should be flattered that his sister is getting married on his birthday.

@PandoraBoxx You haven’t seen 16 Candles, have you. ;)

@PandoraBoxx He’ll be 11. And I could never steal his thunder like that.
@Everyone else Thanks so much for all your help. I visited my mother tonight and we decided on a July wedding. I’m aiming for the 17th! The next step is booking a reception site.

Great!

BTW, I love planning wedding menus as well as picking dates. Keep us in the loop!

July 17th sounds great! I just looked up weather averages in July in Rochester, not sure what city you are in? And the summer month with the lowest chance of rain is July! And, the average low is 60, so if you are planning an evening wedding I think you have great odds of having good weather.

@janbb Menus! Yikes. I’ve seriously underestimated the amount of work that goes into planning a wedding. So I’m sure there will be many more threads from me about wedding stuff. Hopefully all you guys will help me through it! You’ve all been really helpful so far :)
@JLeslie Thanks for that info. I’m in a small town (Newfane) which is only about 2 hrs from Rochester. They have about the same weather as us. So that’s reassuring! I’m so glad I picked a month with low rain possibility!

YAY!! I’ve been losing sleep over your wedding! (JK!)

Maybe you can do a webcam broadcast so we can all see it!

@Val123 You and me both!
@janbb Hmm…now the wheels in my head are turning!

Ok, at this point you have to tell us more. How many people will be attending? Day or night wedding? Will you have many brides maids? Buffet or served? Dancing? Band or DJ, or only background music? Will you use the wedding march? Will both of your parents walk you down the aisle (I guess you are Italian, so probably just your dad)? So many things to think about.

You know I was never one of those girls who dreamed about my wedding day, but once I got engaged I became OBSESSED. I wanted to read everything, see all of the Bride magazines—really became nuts LOL.

@ItalianPrincess1217 I didn’t even fuss over my own wedding like this!! (Funny story…my wedding was at the lake. All I really wanted in the way of fluffery was an arch. Well, I finally abandoned that idea…but my son didn’t! The day of, I was ensconced in my home while my son and hubby took care of the preparations at the lake. Chris got this great idea to build an arch out of these huge, thick vines that were growing up the trees. He worked his heart out. It was beautiful. And everyone at the wedding got….poison ivy! Chris had to go to the doctors for a shot. He swelled up like a balloon, poor kid!)

@Val123 Oh no! That’s horrible but hilarious! That was so sweet of him to build that for you :)

@JLeslie Ok let’s see…I originally wanted a big wedding with near 200 people but I’ve downsized and I’m keeping it just under 100 (both for budget reasons and for the simple fact that I want it to feel intimate). It’s going to be a mid afternoon ceremony (maybe around 3:00) and the reception will immediately follow. I won’t be having too many bridesmaids. Just my sister and a couple close friends. I’ve just asked my best friend of 8 years to be my maid of honor but she hasn’t responded yet…hope that’s not a bad sign :( The dinner will be buffet style. Oh! As I’m typing I just received word back from my best friend. She said she would love to! Yay! Ok, one less thing to worry about. Yes, definitely dancing. Lots and lots of dancing! I’m going to opt for a DJ. That reminds me…is it weird if I request he doesn’t play those awful chicken dance songs or the electric slide? I know a lot of people have that at their wedding but I’ve never been a fan. My first dance song with my step dad will be Elvis “Can’t Help Falling In Love”. My great grandmother was a huge fan of Elvis and I figured my family would really appreciate the song choice. As for the traditional wedding march for when I walk down the aisle (which will be with my step dad) I’ve chosen to do Pachelbel canon in D major. When I was 10 I receieved one of those plug in keyboards for Xmas and it was the first an only song I memorized how to play. I thought it was so beautiful. I used to tell my mom “This is going to be the song played when I walk down the aisle”. I had no idea that so many people already used that song for their weddings! Oops! So, did that cover it all? I think I answered all the questions. But feel free to ask any others that we might’ve missed! I’m so excited :)

You can request whatever music – or lack of it – you want. The DJ is there to serve you!

On the subject of DJs, one of my pet peeves is when the DJ makes the music so loud you can’t talk to anyone at the table. If that’s an issue for you, you may want to request that he keep it down. If it’s not, then don’t.

(This is so much more fun than working! :-)

@janbb yeah that would bother me a bit. I’ll have to make sure that’s not an issue.

Well so far that all sounds fabulous!

Elvis! You know I currently live in “la tierra de Elvis” as my husband put it, which mean land of Elvis; Memphis in other words. I think that is a great song choice with your dad, he’ll love it. I think I used Wind Beneath My WIngs for that, and A Whole New World (you know, Disney from Alladin) for my first dance with my husband).

I also used Pachelbel canon in D major to walk down the aisle.

I had lots of dancing also, EVERBODY danced. My band leader even came up to me at the end and said they had never seen a crowd dance so much all night. DEFINITELY give the DJ a DO NOT PLAY list. This is almost more important than the what to play list. I didn’t want any of that crap either. My wedding was a big party, we did not do much to interrupt it. We didn’t do the garter thing, or show any pictures or slides, the only thing we did that “stopped” the party was the blessing for the challah (a Jewish thing) and the toast.

About the loudness of the music, I just saw @janbb post. Just make sure you sit the older people away from the loudest part of the room. A friend of mine did the “family table” right next to the dance floor as a place of honor, mine I did the opposite. My husband and I sat together, alone, in the center back of the room, with our immediate family at the table next to us. We were never at our table though, we were DANCING!

One thing that I regret is I did a cocktail hour and many of my friends who had not been to such a formal party didn’t understand there would be a 3 course meal following the cocktail hour. They ate up the hors d’oeuvres like it was their last meal. LOL! I mean we ran out and luckily the kitchen was able to supply more. This only matters depending on the group of people you are inviting. If I planned another wedding I would not bother with the cocktail hour or be sure to only have hors d’oeuvres passed by waiters.

@JLeslie It sounds like your wedding was so much fun! I hope everyone leaves mine feeling good and with wonderful memories. Hey, I need an opinion on my photographer. He works with my fiancé and does photography as a second job. He’s giving us a discount but I want to make sure our photos turn out good too. His website is blenkerphotography.com if you want to check it out. He has some wedding pics on there. Let me know if they look like good enough quality or if I should go somewhere else.

@ItalianPrincess1217 – my cousin got married a few months ago. She and her husband had 2 beautiful, large bouquets of flowers on either side of the altar. At the end of the ceremony the priest announced that each bouquet was in honor of their grandparents who had passed away that year (they each had a grandparent pass). It was a lovely way to honor them, and include their memory in the day. You could consider something like that for your uncle.

@Cupcake Thats a really nice idea.

@ItalianPrincess1217 I know! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!

@ItalianPrincess1217 The photos look good. I think I would feel comfortable using him as my photographer. The only thing for me that seemed a little off was some of them seemed to need more margin on the top of the photo, but that might be because of how it was cropped for the web, or just my personal preference. Also, look at the albums he supplies and make sure you are happy with the final prodct. I love my album because the photo is part of the page, hard to explain, again just make sure you are happy with what will be the finished product. See if he will give you all of the proofs. I am so old I don’t know how it is done now, I guess everything is digital, so maybe you get a disc or a photo card, but you still technically need permission to copy a photographers work, so you want to verify that you will be able to make copies, or you might have to go to him every time you want to make a print for someone or yourself. Maybe someone else on this thread knows about it more, someone who has recently done a wedding. There are photographers on fluther, if you want to post a separate question.

I recommend doing a video. My husband insisted, and I did not want to spend money on it, but we did, and I am so glad! I love having that video. My mother-in-law looks freaked in every photo practically; almost frowning, she was so emotional. In the video she is smiling and talking, I was SHOCKED to see that she even was willing to talk on the video. There was so much I didn’t see or didn’t remember, and the video let me see some of the things I missed.

@ItalianPrincess1217 Various friends with video cameras took videos at my son’s wedding and we have a few from different perspectives. I am very happy to have the amateur videos but if you are on a budget, I personally don’t see the need to hire a professional videographer if you have friends who can shoot some film.

@JLeslie I see what you’re saying about needing more margin at the top. Turns out the guy isn’t giving us such a great deal after all. My fiancé spoke with him yesterday and was told his lowest package is $1000! That’s not a discount. That’s what other phitographers in my area charge also and I’m sure they have more experience too! So I’m not sure what to do at this point. Scrap it completely? Have our family take pictures? My problem with that is if my family is taking pics, they aren’t able to fully enjoy the wedding. And it’s not fair to them.
@janbb I definitely plan on having a couple people video taping. I’m not going to hire a professional for it. I think it’ll be more fun if friends do it. And cheaper!

@ItalianPrincess1217 It is definitely worth spending the money on a professional still photographer if it’s in your budget. As I said, we had amateurs taking the videos and also some friends who took candids. But it was great having the professional photos too for an album. After the ceremony, the photographer followed them around and took wonderful pictures of them walking and talking together.

@janbb I really do want professional pictures. Maybe I can talk to this guy and try to work with him on his price. He was supposed to be giving us a deal. He said if I want him for the entire day that’s the price. But maybe I can just keep him for the ceremony, and the most important parts of the reception (first dance, cake cutting, toasts) and then have our guests handle the rest of the pics. That will lower the price. Good idea?

My photographer did not stay until the end. We “fake” cut the cake, and “fake” said good bye” for the photographer to get those shots before he left. Did he say the $1000 included albums and some 8 X10’s?, that price doesn’t sound terrible to me if it includes some stuff besides just being there. I would definetly meet with at least two other photographers to compare prices and packages. Even if you want to stick with your fiances friend you will have some negotiating power if you ave some more realistic information.

@ItalianPrincess1217 Yes. both your ideas and JLeslie’s make sense to me. It is really nice to have the photographer do some of those “candid” romantic pictures of the two of you but that could be worked into a shorter time frame.

BTW, $1,000 doesn’t sound very high to me but definitely do some comparison shopping.

I guess technically $1000 isn’t that pricey but I guess I was expecting a better deal. Oh well. I’ll make it work somehow :) Ok next issue…I want a woman to marry us. Not because I prefer a woman over a man but because she is a good friend of the family. Is this acceptable? My fiancé needs some convincing. He is used to the idea that men are always ministers. How do I ease him into this? Or should I just opt for a man?

Talk it through, let him know why she is important to you. I would try to convince if you can. Maybe he could meet her, if he hasn’t already, and then think about whether he still feels he needs a man. In the end, you two have to decide who has the stronger feelings about this and (every) issue and who can bend.

So now I’m very excited! I have an appointment tomorrow to check out a site for both my ceremony and reception. Not only is it a beautiful venue, it’s within our price range! The only downfall is that they are booked for every Saturday in July. But they are available Friday the 16th. I might have to settle. But I think it’ll be worth it. The place is pretty perfect for what we need.

cool. let us know if you book it.

Very exciting!!!

I would say you can see if your fiance warms up to the idea of a woman doing the ceremony, maybe he can meet her?? In the end you will both need to agree, I would not push hard, he has to be comfortable.

Maybe disposable video cameras placed on several of the tables would be fun. People could do candid interviews with people at their table.

What about Sunday the 18th? Maybe you would prefer that and since it is an early wedding people will probably be fine with Sunday. Although, Friday might be less expensive? If there are a lot of Jews in your community Sunday usually fills up fast and costs the same. I once went to a Tuesday night wedding, everyone showed up and everything was cheaper for the bride and groom, music, flowers, everything. But everyone was local.

@PandoraBoxx That’s a great idea. We were planning on setting out a bunch of disposable cameras on the tables but I have never heard of disposable video cameras. Do they make those? Do you happen to know the average cost of them?

Just one thing about professional videos….they edit them and add nice music and transitions. I don’t know how much they are now, and maybe put it on the bottom of your priorities, but if you can afford it I think you would be very happy. Your friends will not be able to get a video of you saying your vows up close, if you care about that? If you only care about the reception then the throw aways might be enough. I do admit the best parts of my video are the reception. The wedding gets boring, but I am still glad I have it.

They do make them; my daughter bought one at a drug store. I will look and see if they still have them, and how much they are.

So I visited the reception site today…and I absolutely love it! It’s so beautiful. It’s airy and light and so perfect. I can use my colors and they work great. The best part is they have an area for the ceremony. It’s everything I was hoping for. It’s much more expensive than I originally thought it’d be ($45 per person) but we lowered the guest count by a few so the overall price wasn’t so bad. Oh it’s so pretty! I can’t wait to actually have this wedding so I can post some pics online :)

Great – it’s all coming together for you now!

Send out “Save the Date” postcards in January, so people can plan vacations accordingly.

Yay! Sounds wonderful.

My nephew and his fiance sent out save-the-date magnets six months ahead so we could have the reminder right on our refrigerators. Good thing, too, because the location was popular (Cannery Row in Monterey) and we had to reserve accommodations well in advance.

@Jeruba That’s a great idea. I was wondering about save the date cards and when was an appropriate time to send them would be. Magnets are such a practical idea. And probably fairly inexpensive.

I think so. The kind they did were the soft magnets with the flexible backs, same size as a business card. So many people use them promotionally that I think they must be very cost-effective. We certainly refer to the ones on our fridge for the vet’s number, the auto mechanic, and so on.

Jeruba: I’ve used these.
They’re good.