Parenting after divorce question: Should I die on this hill?

off the cuff, I would just let it roll of your back, (with using idioms of course) my guess (from abosolutely no background information whatsoever) is that your ex is just doing that for spite, an immature personal blow.

Fight!
Talk to your kid about the dangers.

Definitely fight it, as you said they can be very dangerous.

Thank your son for sharing, and do nothing. The father is showing his bad side. Guns are not that dangerous. The number of bad incidents compared with the number of children who have guns is very small.

I was trained in the proper handling of firearms since I was five years old.

Arrange for your son to attend age appropriate gun classes, even before you know he has a gun. This is for his protection.

Your ex-husband is a jerk, but let this one go.
The best you can do is talk to him privately, and tell him of your concerns. You are in no position to demand anything, and you may need his help down the road with other problems the kids have.

11 is about the right age for gun safety classes. If the boy has an interest in guns; and many boys do, to act as if you are not pleased, and to perhaps deny him the experience, then you will only cause resentment.

Once you have received safety training, you see that guns are not toys, and you will always have respect for firearms. Guns aren’t evil, stupid people with guns are evil.

Having been there I advise you to let it go. Save your battle for when he wants to buy him a 22.

That being said I would educate the child on not harming animals or themselves in the event that the ex doesn’t.

Definitely fight him. You’re still his parent and your ex-husband should give you some respect at least in that sense. Call him tonight and have a discussion!

I don’t think you can stop the father, especially if he’s doing this because he knows it will bother you. But you could make sure that rules are set down regarding the bb guns. You could say that the guns have to stay at the father’s place and insist that he explain how to use them safely. You should probably make sure the father knows that you expect him to supervise them while the guns are in use, especially if your kids are young.

I would probably not fight it, but confront your ex about it and insist that he pay for (and attend with the boys) regular gun safety courses.

I think you’re going to need to pick your battles, and this one isn’t that important in the grand scheme of things. Wrangling with the father too much could him get defensive and make him dig in his heels about everything.

Remember that he’s their parent just as much as you are, and you’re not always going to agree on how to handle things. Normally, you’d want to work toward a compromise in cases like that, but this isn’t really an issue where there’s a compromise position, unfortunately. (Either they’re going to have BB guns or they aren’t.) I guess you could talk to him about at least asking that the boys only be allowed to use them under adult supervision… that would be a compromise of a sort.

But again… You have to realize that you’re not going to have every parental decision made the way you would make it. If you let him have his way about some (relatively) unimportant things like this, you may be in a better position to get your way on an issue that’s really important.

Lastly, I wouldn’t assume (as some in the collective seem to have) that he’s doing this just to bug you. Maybe he is, but maybe he just doesn’t share your concern, and is willing to allow the boys to have BB guns. It may be as simple as that…

@Psychedelic_Zebra and @Judi Not sure what gun safety courses have to do with bb guns… We’re talking like air pump little pellet guns here, yeah?

I wouldn’t fight it. I’d thank my son for his honesty!

Then, I’d remind my ex that lying by omission is a lesson you’d rather not have your sons learn through his actions.

@derekfnord ; There are safety rules that apply to ANY kind of gun. Always assume it’s loaded, always be aware of where a bullet would land if it went off “right now,” Keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot,double and triple check….
I have never taken any of the courses, but my husband has taken several. He tells me all sorts of “common sense” things that he learns, but that a young gun owner of any kind should be told and tested on.

If they live with you, then you can control how and when the gun is used. If they live with the father, your control is limited.

I had bb guns and still have air pistols, never graduated to anything bigger and better. So I agree gun safety and educations courses are very desireable.

That said, I am reading Columbine and it sure doesn’t make me feel easy about anyone and their guns!

@Judi ; Okay, I guess I was thinking of classes more specifically about bullet-firing guns…

Unfortunately, you cannot fight this type of issue. The court will not support you. Keep the disagreements to custody and support issue. If you can talk to your husband, remind him that the most loving thing he can do for his children is to make sure the two of you speak with One Voice, and that it would be healthier if he did not allow them to go around you by appealing to him. All experts agree that children are made unhappy by this, even if they appear to “win”.

Get your son to a gun safety course. Making a big deal out of it could get your son into trouble with hubby for “telling”, which might cause your son to start keeping secrets from you…...

I would not fight him, but talk to your son about gun safety, and how sad it will be if he shoots a bird or a rabbit with it, and never to point it at his brother. Thank the younger one for telling you, and that he should always tell you when something bothers him.

While you cannot stop your ex-husband from buying the gun, but you can set rules with your son about using it, and not allow it to follow him home. And you can articulate to your ex-husband that you don’t condone the gift, there are better things to purchase that your son may actually want more, and that he is responsible for any outcome.

If your children are remotely responsible , and it sounds like they are, them having a bb gun is not the problem; it’s usually their friends goofing off irresponsibly.

I don’t like guns, personally. I don’t begrudge anyone their right to own one at all, I just don’t like them or want one. I would have a major problem with this. I suppose you all could come to some sort of mutual agreement about the guns, like he only shoots it if dad is with him or whatever. My major problem would be that he is teaching your son to defy your wishes and then lie about it.

I still think there could be a big problem for your son in exposing the “secret” he confided in you….
Divorce is a bitch.

My son, when 13, bought a bb gun surreptitiously from one of his step-brothers. He then stood on the stairs and pointed it at his 8-year old sister who was at the piano. A pellet flew into her face, just above one eye.

We all, including the gun, rushed to the pediatrician. Pellet was removed, wound cleaned, gun confiscated and son lectured to by pediatrician who threatened to report the incidence to the police.

@gailcalled EH!!!! I don’t know how kids ever live through kidhood!
When my son was 12 he saw a sling shot in the weapons department in Walmart. You had to be 18 to buy it. YOU HAD TO BE 18 FOR A REASON!!! It was for like, killing deer and griz and moose and stuff! Major slingshot. My not-so-bright Mom bought for him, unbeknownst to me. Well, then I get this call from his friend’s dad. My son and his friend hid up in a tree and fired rocks from the sling shot—and put out a car window! Even worse, it was in a kid-crowded neighborhood. Somebody could have been killed.
But, enough of that. Stuff happens, Supermouses boyz will be fine.

@SuperMouse If you’re that opposed to it, give your lawyer a call.

As someone who has to know how to handle guns (stupid rattlesnakes), I think that its smart for people to know how to handle firearms if they’re ever around them. Since they’re boys, they’re going to be around them eventually. I would insist that gun safety classes be taken by both boys as odds are that the younger one will likely be around the older one and the weapon. I think that its not something that he needs to even get near without knowing everything there is to know about gun safety and hear it repeated/recite it back often.

I have a slingshot. Its my only weapon. I would shoot small pellets at the squirrels that were lookin’ at me nekkid through he windows (after I found some clothes) at my last apartment. That is the only weapon I currently own, but I considered a BB gun. Not that I could hit something that small with either, but I preferred something that I had to load that I couldn’t drop and have it possibly go off.

@avvooooooo The squirmy was lookin at you nekkid?! I’d call the police! Damn peeping toms!

@derekfnord a gun is a gun, as long as it fires a projectile. BB, or even those high powered water guns can be deadly, in the right circumstances. To separate a BB gun as somehow less harmful than a .22 or even a .357 is to make an error. Given the right environment, a simple pump BB gun can cause a death.

Guns don’t kill people, untrained people with guns kill people. Get the training, don’t be a statistic.

Here is an interesting experiment that an Atlanta pediatrician conducted in 2001, What Do Boys Do When They Find a Real Gun?

@Val123 Squirlz r evil. I keep telling @jbfletcherfan that, but she doesn’t believe me!

I would fight
I have half of legal custody with my ex and full physical custody
so basically I’d say either remove the gun or he will never come over again
end of story

@avvooooooo Oh, I believe you. We have a squirrid (3 year old granddaughter’s name for squirrels) who runs thorough the trees in the back yard when he’s bored, because it drives our three dogs apesh**it!! His name is Pierre I think, and he sits on his branches and calls my dogs bad names. My German Shepherd like to tear those trees down.

I had a cockatoo wolf whistle at me once when I got nekkid to take a shower. I shot him although it wasn’t a fair fight because he was in a cage outside of the bathroom. But thems cockatoo’s evil too.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir But the courts won’t uphold that. He may very well have ½ legal physical custody….regardless, he has some legal rights to see the kids and you won’t do your kids any good sitting in jail for contempt of court for refusing to let dad see them….at which point the kids are then solely in the physical custody of their father which could become permanent.

God, this would make me sick. My inclination is to fight. What I really mean is talk to the ex and do my damnedest to convince him not to buy the gun. I would work on it very, very hard… and probably make him miserable in the process. I would wear his ass down.

If that didn’t work, gun safety courses for all the kids (at his expense) would be mandatory. I would also have a serious problem with him going behind my back about it. If he’s going to ignore your wishes, he could at least be man enough to tell you so to your face.

I’d let it go. I’d explain why but I’m tired, lazy, and I honestly don’t think owning a bb gun is a young boy does any harm as long as your kid is careful, which, if he’s anything like you, I’m sure he’s plenty safe.

Thanks for all the feedback. The interesting part about these answers is that there good arguments on both sides. I’m still not sure what to do about this whole thing, but last night the ex sent my 11 year-old home with a brand new, activated cell phone without even discussing it with me. It is going to be a lloooonnnngg couple of years…

One thing I have decided for certain is that all three boys are going to get gun safety classes.

I would take issue with the cell phone. Especially if it has texting as texting tends to drop younger kids out of life and into an addictive cyber world. Sorry he is such a dickhead that he uses “giving gifts” to the kids as a way to piss you off so you look like the jerk for being a good parent.

For kids: there is no such thing as a “good” divorce (generally speaking). They love you and dad. The worst thing divorced parents can do is continue thier fighting after the fact and use the kids as weapons. The question sounds like it is not really about the bb gun…now it is the cell phone…next it will be… Sounds like the x is bent on driving a wedge between you and the boys and driving you nuts. I hope the x grows up.

There are no simple solutions – and the best answers are easy to preach, but hard to live.

If you must argue with the x – do it in private – never in front of the children.
Don’t make your boys choose sides.
Don’t trash-talk dad.
Encourage the boys to respect their father.

I would concentrate on making your relationship with the boys the best it can be.

Have you seen A Christmas Story? As long as there aren’t any icicles around your kid should be fine…

@JONESGH I was just going to say the same thing. Let them watch A Christmas Story. You’ll put your eye out, kid!

By the way. Your ex is a Moron.

How responsible is your ex? That is the question that quite immediately pops into my mind. If he is responsible and you know he will teach good safety to your sons and always supervise them vehemently while they use the BB guns then I would say this is an issue I wouldn’t fight but I would bring up. The father needs to know he can’t be keeping these type of secrets from you.

The gun safety classes are the right way to go. I would also discuss this with your ex to see if he planned to have them take such courses. I would ask him to discuss these things in the future—not to get into an argument about them, but to make sure the boys handle the situation safely. The cell phone is just as much something that requires training in appropriate use as the gun.

It sounds like your divorce is turning nasty. Your husband is using the kids to get at you. If I remember correctly, he didn’t want this divorce? I don’t know if you ever did any counseling about how to take care of kids in the divorce, but if possible, it would help him if he learned some perspective on what he is doing. It’s a long shot, I’m sure, but maybe he, too, can get a safety class—in safe parenting!

Ugh! A Cell phone for an 11yr old boy is possibly WORSE than the BB gun…

Most likely the gun’s “fun” will wear off. But, he’ll be using a cell phone for life (unless we all get some sort of implant in the future;). I’d have a real issue with that @SuperMouse!!!

@SpatzieLover Divorce is awful…she’s really gonna have to pick her fights. Also, you set your own rules at your house. The kids can deal with two different sets of rules, easily.

At her house she can take the phone away except for set times.

@Judi yeah that will make her the most popular Mom ever

@patg7590 Since when was parenting about being popular?

@patg7590 Sadly I have found that being a good parent rarely means you will be popular. In fact it seems the best parents are the ones who care enough to put the child first rather than their own ego. (Unfortunately @supermouse’s ex seems to prefer stroking his ego to being a good parent)

oh God, I did not mean to say what I said
what I mean is that, this seems to be the dad’s whole plan. Get the kids on his side, buy them things, etc.

Thus, taking the phone away, taking the BB gun away, just further makes mom look bad and dad look good. (to the kids at least).

I understand that being a good parent means being unpopular at times, but I think that in this case, that will be feeding right into the dad’s plan

@patg7590 You are so right- he is buying the kids affection through gifts that he knows are improper deliberately putting @supermouse in the position of bad guy. Sad huh?

@everyone A couple of the pets I have are due to bad divorces. People get very ugly when dealing with their “posessions” during a divorce and living with one after. Sometimes children sadly qualify as possessions to them as well.

If she’s REASONABLE about limiting the phone then she should probably still “Parent” on it. She can negotiate with them, getting their input about what is “reasonable.”
They can negotiate what ever works in their family. The key is to negotiate with the child, without letting them see the disdain for what ex is trying to do. Be the adult, remove thoughts of hubby from the conversation. With the child decide what boundaries and limits will be set on the phone.
She can actually USE it as a motivational tool just like a parent who really see’s no problem getting a phone for an 11 year old would.

I see their points but, you just have to do what you feel is right even if it seems to be playing into his hands. It might be a long wait but believe me, there will come a time when they’ll see clearly who you are and who their dad is….it’ll happen.
BTW, it sounds like he’s playing games. It takes two to play a game, you know. If you just didn’t react to him about any of this, just dealt with it your way at your house, do you think maybe he’d stop? As long as he knows he’s got you going, he’ll just keep bringing it on….

@Val123 actually i’d dare him to take me to court over something like that because at least in my situation i can come up with so many of his inabilities to uphold what he promised, that they’d strip him of his rights if I felt like it…

@valdasta not all parents use their kids as weapons
since the divorce i have given the bio dad EVERY opportunity to parent his son and he has neglected them all..

I took care of the phone situation by informing my son and his father that the phone will be off when he is with me. The ex wasn’t pleased about that but he has no control. I am going to do the gun safety classes, but I am going to do it by myself because I think asking the ex to do it would be implicitly giving him to go ahead to buy the bb guns.

@SuperMouse problem solved, for now, and who knows, you might find learning more about guns interesting. Plenty of people own guns and just do target shooting and skeet. Not all gun owners are nutjobs, and not all of them go out and kill widdle aminals. =)

@SuperMouse Good job…..(oh! He wasn’t PLEASED?? Well, he can just KMA. Just tell him who I am and he can do just that. What does HE care if the phone isn’t on when the child is with you??? What is there to not be pleased about?! Um. I’m feelin’ redneck right now, in case you haven’t noticed….)

@Val123 You give me giggles. I’m afraid I lurve you! :D

@avvooooooo WAIT!!! I’m seriously pissed! You can’t get the giggles on me when I’m pissed! I’ll totally lose all my authority! Oh shit. There it went, bye bye. Sigh.

@Val123 Have a cookie, take a deep breath, and then get pissed that you don’t get two cookies and regain your authority.

@YARNLADY: I have absolutely no words good enough for how much I disagree with you on every single point.

Passive aggressively letting your spouse influence your child to choose between which parent is cooler? Give them better presents? Encourage secretive behavior? What the hell? Letting the behavior slide is as bad as agreeing to it.

Guns are not that dangerous? Regardless of how often gun injuries happen with children – any number is unacceptable. If you remove the tool, you significantly lower the chance of those incidences occurring.

If someone put a gun in your hands at five years old, I’m shocked – unloaded or whatever. I can understand informational classes only, and awareness. But even hands on training at a young age is fucking retarded. Brains are undeveloped, exposure creates a false sense of comfort around them and the fact that young children and teenagers are handling guns with underdeveloped motor skills is shocking to me.

Young people are stupid, by nature they dismiss consequences even when they are informed of dangers, why in God’s name would anyone give them a toy based off a deadly weapon?

I know a lot of gun advocates will disagree with me, but based on the children I knew as a child I would never in a million fucking years let any child I have near a BB gun or a real one. I’d go ballistic.

I was shot at on purpose with a BB gun when I was nine by a kid in my neighborhood who took safety classes. He later hunted my dog on multiple occasions. Shooting her three times. He and his friends routinely ‘hunted’ squirrels, rabbits, pets and kids. And they weren’t the only group. I knew a few of these groups of kids over the years in different towns and states. Some had taken classes, some had not.

People don’t know what their kids get into when they’re not looking, no matter how much you trust your kid – it’s idiotic.

@SuperMouse: Nip that shit in the bud. Call the father, if he won’t listen – call your lawyer.

@SuperMouse I agree with @asmonet as far as parenting goes you definitely have a say. Just because he would be receiving it in a different house doesn’t mean he isn’t your child. I would say something.

Reading the comments, I just noticed – your kid’s got a cell phone. I work for an authorized dealer for AT&T and cannot tell you how much kid’s fuck up their parents cell phones. The very best option, and I’m completely serious – is to tell your kid they have no data, no messaging and sixty minutes every month. Depending on the carrier they may have a ‘Smart Limits’ program where you can actively allot only small amounts of usage on the line to encourage ‘emergency only’ usage. While you tell the kid there is no data coverage, and no texting coverage – get them covered. In the event your children don’t understand the limits or the system in place – you’re covered and neither of you ends up with a bill that can quickly climb to thousands of dollars.

On your bill, at least with AT&T the cost of data is 1 Mb = $2, and sometimes 1 kb is a penny, 20–40 cents a minute and roughly 20 cents a text – do the math – charge your kid. They’ll figure it out quick without you having to deal with Customer Care or it screwing up your credit. All carriers will show the cost of data on the bill as far as I’m aware as well as amount used.

If you know for a fact you will not be texting your children, do not want them texting and do not want them using data to download songs, adult material or games and sign up for subscriptions call your provider, your ex can do this – you should be able to as well if you just say it’s your son’s line and have your ex’s last 4 SSN and billing zip. Explain very clearly you want a Data Block and a Text Block or Data / Text Opt Out. If you say you ‘don’t want text or data’, they’ll simply remove coverage and you will pay per use – a block prevents usage and charges completely.

Just sayin’.

@asmonet ; Or, since bb gun buying dad is paying for the cell phone, encourage him to use the crap out of it for spite! (just kidding….. sort of.)

@Judi I like the way your mind works ;)

GA @Judi

fiiiight the battle.

@asmonet “Young people are stupid, by nature they dismiss consequences even when they are informed of dangers,” Excellent point.
Also, I think what @asmonet is saying about the phone, when I worked for CellOne we had the technology to have the phones automatically shut off if the bill went over, say, $60 during the billing cycle. You seriously need to get that, if you have that option. Or hey….wait! Your X is paying that bill, right?? MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

@asmonet thanks for the great information. I agree with you on all counts. I informed the ex yesterday that I am not allowing my boy to have the phone when he is with me. Of course ex was pissed and said the only reason he got it was so he could communicate with the boy and because it makes the boy happy. I responded that he has always communicated perfectly well with the boy via my cell phone and that parenting isn’t always about making children happy. As I’ve mentioned, this is going to be a long row to hoe… On the upside, every single time I talk to this guy I grow more and more pleased with my decision to leave him.

BTW, I REALLY like the way you phrased this question. Been meaning to tell you that….

@SuperMouse You chose an excellent battle. The cell phone was a way to diminish your importance and your authority as well. Your refusal to allow it proved that you not only care about your children first but will not allow him to undermine you at their expense.
Well done!

BTW—how often does he have the kids? (I’d take that cell phone, call some never ending phone line, then hide it!)

@Dog thank you, the encouragement means a lot to me!