Do you feel people who were born in a different country, but have become citizens of the United States, are less American than someone who was born in the US?

The short answer. Yes.

I think most people would say “Yes”, but I believe being American is in heart. How ‘American’ a person is, could be shown by how much they believe in America and how well they know America. It’s all in the spirit, but of course you should at least be a legal U.S. citizen.

I think sometimes they are MORE American! They at least know something about our country and have taken an oath of loyalty. The path to citizenship is not near as easy as having your mom poop you out in an American Hospital.

I’m with @Judi on this… Most Americans could not pass the citizenship test. And naturalized citizens still view the US as a country of opportunity, as opposed to the entitlement that many younger generations seem to expect.

On my father’s side, the family is pre-Revolutionary and includes a member of the Continental Congress who signed the Constitution. On my mother’s side, I am first-generation American… she has been a legal resident alien since before I was born. So my perspective is a bit different from many.

I think it’s far too subjective to say. “Being American” is something that a large majority of Americans don’t even do…

@erichw1504 I am talking about US citizens, not people who are here illegally.

@erichw1504 and @ItalianPrincess1217 when do people become “American” in your mind, the chidren of immigrants, the grandchildren? How many generations have to be here to be accepted as part of the American fabric like everyone else?

Nope. If it weren’t for people who weren’t born in America coming here, we wouldn’t have America at all today.

Certainly NOT! All of my family are immigrants. They were once “fresh blood” here. They had to start from scratch, most not knowing English until they studied it here.

@JLeslie Actually I think I’ve changed my mind. I had a friend that was an immigrant and I always considered him an American. I think most people who come to this country do it because they want to be here. Because they like our way of living. Because they respect our country. So I believe they should be considered one of us as long as their intentions of coming to America were good.

I think that it doesn’t matter where you were born..but where you were raised..

I’m British so can only speak for my own country. I don’t know what the answer is but I have an Indian friend who was raised in India but went to an English speaking school and apart from her religion she was basically raised as British (both her parents are Indian and her dad still lives in India). She moved to England about 10 years ago and is a British citizen. Her English is probably better than mine apart from a sight accent that causes her to pronounce some words in strange ways.

Anyway, when I think of her the first thing that comes to mind is that yes, she is probably less British than I am (and I think she would agree with me) because she was born and raised in India and still classes herself as Indian. However, I see no reason why she can’t be both British and Indian.

I’ll probably have to think more on this but at the moment my gut (honest) reaction is yes I would consider someone born in a different country less British (not that being British means anything in particular) providing their family weren’t British. I say this because my Aunt was born in Singapore because that is where the family were stationed due to the military.

No. Most of those born in America could not pass the citizenship test. Plus, I was born here and I think many people would consider me unAmerican (so do I).

Many immigrants LOVE America, even if they still hold onto their culture and language.

Hell no.

Go observe a Mexican family in the urban ghetto for a week. They fight daily on minimum salary so they can put their kids through college. They live in dilapidated apartments with broken appliances in run down housing projects.

They do this so that their children can have a better life, all the while surviving on scraps. If they are here illegally, they don’t get government assistance and their wages are lower. Just as American – if not more so – than all of us here. This is generally widespread for all immigrants, regardless of ethnicity; they have that work ethic, the desire to strive for a better life.

@Lorenita So if you were raised in another country and came to America as an adult for college or a job or what you hoped would be a better life, and in the end chose to stay and become a citizen, that person is less American?

Why exactly is it a big deal to be classed as American? What is wrong with being an Indian with American citizenship? The real question should be is someone who isn’t born and bred American less of a human being and of course the answer is NO. I feel that both Britain and America seem to think that being called British or American is a privilage and we are doing people a favour by calling them British or American if they are not born and bred there. This makes me feel that Britain and America are too full of their self importance.

In my experience, immigrants display much more love and gratitude for this country than people who are born here do. They usually are grateful for the opportunity and freedom here—things they didn’t have in the country they came from.

I also find them to be, in general, harder workers. They appreciate the opportunity they’ve been given, and they will go the extra mile to make the most of it. I’d take an immigrant as an employee over a native-born, all other things being equal.

Immigrants, I would say, are much more American than native-born Americans.

As an immigrant myself, I tend to think sometimes those new Americans are more vital and appreciative of the privilege than those who have been simply born into it without knowledge of exactly how much better are the opportunities and possibilities here, than outside.

@Leanne1986 That is not what I was getting at, although I guess maybe some people think they are better than others because they are American or British. But, I was not working off of that premise, I was thinking of it in terms of acceptance by ones countrymen.

What I seem to hear (not on Fluther, but around me in “real” life) is this undercurrent of people referring to immigrants, even if they are citizens, as less American. Being American is basically synonomous with being an immigrant or a decendent of immigrants, unless you are Native American. So I don’t see how someone who is 4th generation American can look at an immigrant who is happy to be American, took an oath, and works hard to be a participant in our country as somehow a different type of American than the rest of us. I don’t understand how they can be so disconnected from probably their own family history and the history of the country. The people who seem most annoyed with immigration laws and new immigrants are peole who live in areas of the country that have the least amount of diversity, and I honestly think their lack of exposure or connection with people who have recently come from other countries influences their ability to think of it as an “us and them” idea. It is much easier to condemn the person you don’t know.

I guess I kind of judge these people as having a narrow view, but that is without having really talked to any of them about the topic, so I thought I would ask on Fluther and keep an open mind, see what people thought and why.

@JLeslie Do you find that these judgemental people you have encountered think less of a person for not being American enough in their opinion?

@Leanne1986 can you reword that? I am not sure what you are asking.

@JLeslie Sure. I’m just wondering if the people you speak of (ie: the ones that believe immigrants to be less American than themselves) think less of immigrants, even ones with citizenship, as human beings because they are “less American”?

@Leanne1986 I have no idea, that is a great question. They might be judging the specific ethnicity/race/culture, is that what you mean? I think they don’t want “those people” in the country maybe? They say things like they are taking jobs away from Americans, or don’t pay their taxes, they group them all together whether here illegally or legally in my mind. They have no tolerance for people who struggle with the English Language. But, do the people think of someone who has come to the states from Scotland or England as different than someone who came from Iran or Mexico? I don’t know.

@JLeslie Yes, that’s what I meant. It’s almost like they believe that these immigrants, lthough perfectly legal, are not worthy of being called American.There are plenty of people like that here too. I think it all comes down to race because I know, here in Britain, certain ethnicities/races are less tolerated than others and I have heard similar things to what you mentioned ie: They take all our jobs etc which, in my opinion, is just a lazy Brit’s way of justifying why he doesn’t bother going out and getting a job.

@Leanne1986 ; I think The concept might be different in Britain than America, since “British” is an ethnicity, and “American” is more homogeneous.

@judi but I think maybe these Americans consider themselves American like it is an ethnicity, definitely they identify as American and have an idea in their head of what an American should be. Maybe?

@Judi True but it still boils down to one thing: whether you are considered worthy enough to be labeled as something and that is where Britain and America are similar. After all, British or American, they’re just words. Why do we, as British or American “born and breds” feel that it is up to us to decide whether someone is worthy of these titles? And, more importantly why do we assume that everyone wants them?

Going back to my Indian friend. I consider her Indian because she is. Simple. Because I don’t see being British as anything special I do not believe that because she is Indian she is any less of a person than I am and so there is no “us and them” as far as Upneet and I are concerned it’s just stating the bleeding obvious. She’s Indian by culture and ethnicity and she’s happy to be called Indian but she’s British by law because she lives and works here. She is happy to live in either country and isn’t bothered by what she is called (Indian or British). It’s when we start treating things like being American/British as a privilage that only few are worthy of that we start an “us and them” situation.

This is one of those threads where I know what I want to say just not sure how to say it so I hope that I have made sense here!

@Leanne1986 I disagree. I consider being an American as being associated with the ideals of my country, what it represents (well suppose to represent). A country of religious freedom, the right to pursue happines, that each individual is born with certain inalienable rights. I think it is special. I think if we live up to this a persons ethnicity or prior country, place of birth, is of no consequence. At the same time I do not think that an individual should be judged by their government’s actions, it is not so intertwined that the individual is lost. The people who seek America are looking for these ideals I speak of above. And, many people continue to come to America for a better life. I am not saying America is the only place you can find freedom, only that this is how I think of America in my mind.

My husband is Mexican, he was born there, grew up there through most of High school. His Grandparents came from different countries to Mexico. Now my husband is an American Citizen, and I think he is just as American as me (I am 2nd and 3rd generation American born at Walter Reed Hospital (army hospital) in Washington DC. I would have an easier time running for President than John McCain). My husband loves this country, is grateful for what it offers. You can be Mexican-American and still be just as American as any other American. Your friend is Indian and British.

I think you are saying it doesn’t matter to you. That you respect a person the same no matter what country they are from or what race they are, etc., I feel the same. If an Indian man is living in my country I don’t care if he is a green card, or a citizen, here on temp visa, or on vacation, he is a person period. But, if he wants to be American, does what is required, and is given citizenship he IS American.

My point is pretty much everyone in my country is something-American so I don’t see how people can think they are more American then another American. I think they don’t understand what America really is.

Nationalism. You can be a legal American citizen, but belong to another nation in your heart.

Both my parents were born and raised in other countries and came to America. My father, though he speaks with a heavy foreign accent, is full blooded American – his allegiance belongs to the U.S.A. On the other hand, my mom feels no strong tie to America – after 40+ years, she still has a green card.

I don’t know if I like the whole fly-the-flag-of-your-native-country bit. Maybe I am getting the wrong impression, but why would you immigrate to America only to make sure to let everyone know how (insert nation) you are? I have no problem with maintaining your ethnic culture, but on the fourth of July, I hope we are waving “Old Glory” just as zealously.

I love it when people ask me what I am…I tell them, “American.”

@valdasta The word nationalism conjures up some negative ideas in my head, I prefer to say I am patriotic and grateful to live in America.

America has a long history of asking people what they are and where they are from. My Mexican brother-in-law and his Scottish boyfriend (who both came to the states about 15 years ago) were talking to my sister and I about this. They dislike when people ask them what they are, or where they are from. They see it as rude or maybe that someone wants to prejudge them. At one point in the conversation the Scottish one said, “but it wasn’t always like this here, that people asked where you were from.” My sister and I looked at each other, looked at him, and at the same time said, “yes, always.”

The history in America is not the same as other countries. I don’t know if there is another country in the world that was founded on the idea of a country of new immigrants. Of course there are other countries in the Americas, but their history is slightly different. America actively solicited and accepted new immigrants, ”...give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free…” we still do it today. We accepted them on the premise that they too would be citizens of the country, equal in every way (of course our history is not perfect and we missed this ideal at times, but I would maintain that when people were treated poorly and discriminated against it was unAmerican). Now we do not so much solicit, but we still see ourselves as a country that people seek to live in for new opportunity. Now, certainly other countries are seen the same way at this time in History.

When I ask where are you from? I am not secretly saying, I’m American what are you? I’m thinking, where are you from, you tell me yours, I’ll tell you mine. I think stories of coming to America are interesting, courageous many times, not to be hidden or thrown away like they never happened. People should be proud of the journey their families have taken.

Meanwhile, I too play a game when people ask me where I am from or what I am, because they are many times trying to get at that I am Jewish, and since they don’t just come out and ask my religion, I don’t tell them. I say I was born in Washington D.C., and if they press it I say my family was from Latvia and Russia.

@JLeslie That is exactly what I am saying, I don’t care where a person is from, they are human and that’s enough for me. If they want to be called British or American or whatever then I am fine with that but because I don’t regard being British (for example) as being better than anything else I don’t tend to worry too much about labelling someone as a from a particular country unless it is obvious (ie: my Indian friend is obviously Indian to look at, to listen to and in some of her beliefs – she has no problem being called Indian or British because one is not better than the other).

All I am saying is, does it matter if someone is less American than someone else? Because this question makes it seem like if you consider someone less American than yourself then that is a bad thing. Why is it? If I moved over to America now and gained American citizenship I would still be British and so I would consider myself less American than you as you were born and bred in America. This has nothing to do with my ideals as a person, I may share a lot of the, typically American ideals but I would still have no problem being called British because that is the obvious.

Just out of interest. Is being American considered better than being Mexican over there? I’m just trying to understand why it is a big deal to be called something in particular.

@Leanne1986 Ok, I think I am understanding you better. It matters if you live in America and wanted to be treated as an American. Treated and regarded as someone who has just as much right to live here as any other American. To work here, to vote here, to use social systems here, etc.

@JLeslie That I agree with. EVERYONE should be treated as an equal wherever they chose to live (providing they live within the laws of that country obviously). One thing that really makes me angry is when people complain about legal immigrants coming into their country. If they are working to pay their way and are not causing any trouble then I consider anyone, regardless of original birth place, to be an asset and should have all the rights that I do.

@Leanne1986 We’re talking the same language.