How would an atheist work the 12 steps of recovery?

They make up a god, like @FutureMemory is about to say.

Substitute the word god with ‘mother nature’ or ‘the cosmos’.

Replace instances of god with “The Universe” and appropriate prounouns.

<edit> @FutureMemory said it first.

Very carefully?

In some 12 step programs the non-theist follows a different set of 12 steps. Instead of it being about God, the steps are about becoming whole again and finding contentment. The focus is shifted from “selfish” to “selflessness”.

So long as you ‘worship’ something other than the drug (or whatever else).

replace the steps with “submit to psychological treatment and do what the doctors say because they know what they do”

@ragingloli Its normally the complete opposite, but I hope your joking.

In large cities there are atheist AA meetings.

I’m glad I’m not an alcoholic.

@JONESGH GQ, I have always wondered this.

I’ve never done a 12 step program but when I am in situations where I am forced to think about G-d, I think about it as the concept of becoming the best version of myself I can be. That idea might work in a 12 step program.

Do these work?

1. We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. We came to believe that only ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. We made a decision to enforce our will on our lives.
4. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. We admitted to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. We were entirely ready to remove all these defects of character from ourselves.
7. We humbly strived to remove our shortcomings.
8. We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. We continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. We sought through self exploration and meditation to improve our conscious contact with ourselves, seeking only for the knowledge and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a concious awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

This is one of the reason I never drank alcohol I was afraid of the recovery and all of that God talk.

@RareDenver My parents run an AA step house where they give people a place to sleep and work the steps. Their convinced it works.

@Samurai I’m sure they do work, I was just responding to the question and putting forward an idea of a non-theistic version of the 12 steps

[This is coming from an atheist perspective which you may disagree with but I’m adding it for the sake of discussion.] It always bothered me that the solution was to replace one higher power (alcohol, etc.) with another (god/religion). It doesn’t seem like it’s solving any problems.

@timtrueman It solves being addicted or relapsing on drugs.

@Samurai I disagree with that statement (but then again I see religion as harmful). Alright maybe I’d rather see someone on religion than hard drugs but still I think you can see my point.

@timtrueman It could be replacing one problem for another.

I think the root of the issue is people need something bigger than themselves to believe and very few people seem to be able to operate with no higher power and overcome big issues like addiction.

@RareDenver How can that make any logical sense? If you are powerless over your addiction, you cannot restore yourself to sanity.

The twelve steps assumes that there is only one place for “salvation” to come from and this is reflected in the entire structure of the steps.

I do believe that some people, without help, cannot “restore themselves to sanity,” but I think the overall structure should be more open. It seems to me that a lot of the methodology is based in CBT, why not just embrace that?

Maybe atheists don’t become alcholics?

The serenity prayer is one of the basic messages in AA meetings, it is about accepting you cannot control everything, but you can control yourself. You can just drop the God off and it is still good advice.

God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

If I’d have any shred of dignity left, I would look for a recovery program that does not rely on tricking my brain into experiencing a placebo effect.

Failing that, I’d rather try making up an imaginary guide and let him or her drag me through the recovery. If I’m going to make-believe against better knowledge, I’d rather do it overtly.

Courage Wolf seems qualified.

“Who the f*ck invented this program?” he says, reading the 12 steps of recovery. “A kindergarten teacher?”
He reads on for a few seconds and turns away forcefully, his face a grimace of disgust.
“Powerless.” he snorts. “Don’t make me f*cking puke. What are you, an object? A chair, powerless over people putting their ass on your face? A rug, powerless over people wiping the shit off their shoes on you?”
I hesitate.
“I don’t f*cking think so!” he barks. “You are a MAN. From this second forward, you will stop being a pathetic waste of life and get your shit together. Do you understand me?”
But this is hard work.
“Listen, pal. You got yourself into this shit, you get yourself out again, and I’ll be damned if it’s not going to take everything you’ve got. You’ve chosen easy before, and look where that got you.”
I know you’re right, but…
“No. No more excuses. Excuses are for pathetic wastes of life. And I told you you stopped being one twenty seconds ago.
“Suffer the pain of discipline, or suffer the pain of regret. And in case you think I’m giving you a choice, the second one is not an option any more. You will work hard, and you will enjoy it, knowing that it will make you strong again.
“You think it’s drugs, your main problem? Bullshit. That’s just a symptom. Your true addiction is to weakness. And the only cure for weakness is a daily dose of effort and pain. So get out of your comfort zone and get to it.”
Yes sir.

He’s a strict teacher, but he has a way of improving your life.

@timtrueman that’s what I was going to say. I’ve seen people get over chemical addictions and let religion completely take over their lives instead. It’s just teaching people to be dependent on something else.

when I did it, it was about working the steps, you could make the god part anything you wanted to. it was about finding yourself. you were supposed to really think about and work each step and not worry about the god part. and, you could interpret the steps how you wanted to, pretty much.

Substitute the higher power for a higher goal in life, some sort of meaning in your life that motivates you to live.

@Shuttle128 How can that make any logical sense? If you are powerless over your addiction, you cannot restore yourself to sanity.

I assume you are referring to

1. We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. We came to believe that only ourselves could restore us to sanity.

I struggled with that one at first when I was taking God out of the equation but I suppose we have all been powerless at some point and had to learn to empower ourselves, for instance every user of this site at one time could not wipe their own arse, I’m sure 99% of them can now. I suppose you could see point 2 as admitting that you have to re-empower yourself to take control?

Any other thoughts anyone? Anyone want to offer some other non-theistic 12 steps?

@RareDenver
My imaginary guide up there suggest a non-theistic 2 steps.

1. Man the f*ck up.
2. MAN THE F*CK UP.

I wonder whether humanist willpower can be just as strong as religious faith.

@Fyrius I picture your guide like this

@RareDenver
Lol.

He feels deeply insulted that you would picture him with a belly like that.

When I moved to another country – I often found myself in a (personally) awkward situation: singing songs and even the national anthem which contained phrases like: born here, proud to be a citizen here, believe in God, etcetera.

At times, if it were say a choral group, I’d simply mumble the phrase, or ignore it – or make up a funny rhyme. This isn’t like the 12 step program, I know, but I don’t meant to be disrespectful. Au contraire, I think that if you have to swear on the bible in court, or sing the US anthem, or even look at the almighty dollar bill (as an atheist) – this can b trying and awkward, not to mention downright humiliating at times. I guess everyone deals with it differently.

@NewZen I can relate. I find it odd to go to a Christian/Catholic wedding where the priest or minister involves the people attending. Like they say something, and everyone knows what to say back (ecept me), or they are expected to kneel or take communion. I think at weddings people should not feel left out. Of course I am happy to go to any of my friends or families weddings no matter what church it is in, and I am no saying they should change the ritual for people outside of the faith, but it is awkward.

My sister in Jr. HIgh refused to say the pledge, because it had God in it, and she got into trouble. She probably should have just skipped the word, but the point is children are supposedly allowed to not participate in the pledge, but that is not how it pans out in real life.

I have known a lot of atheists in AA. Your higher power can be anything you want it to be. Most often I have heard folks say their power comes from the group dynamic. I don’t know if I am a true atheist or not but I think if there is a god he/she has no involvement in my life. I believe I have everything in me that I would ever need, I just have to access it. The people I met in AA showed me how they access that power and I learned from them the tools that are available within myself to control my addictions. And I was powerless and I did come to believe that I needed help to be able to control.

It is why I always tell people to “meeting shop” because some are so god oriented it is off putting. But no matter, I have never been to any meeting where I did not go away with some new and significant insight. And they always tell you, take what you want and leave the rest.

There are many options for those who believe in God and those who do not:
– www.soberforever.net The Jude Thaddeus Program has the highest independently verified success rate in the United States. It does not require a belief in God.
– www.moderation.org Moderation Management stresses balance, moderation, self-management, and personal responsibility.
– www.med.umich.edu/drinkwise Drink Wise is a brief, confidential educational program for people with mild to moderate alcohol problems who want to eliminate the negative consequences of their drinking.
– www.habitsmart.com Habit Smart promotes the reduction of harmful behaviors and harm through habit change and wise choices.
– www.alcoholics-anonymous.org (212–817-3400 or consult your local telephone directory) The oldest and best-known “twelve-step” program of self-help for alcoholics who wish to abstain is Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). Founded in 1935, and based on a religious movement of the time, AA estimates that it now has two million members in 114 countries. Membership in this non-professional, mutual support organization is free, and members are encouraged to attend ninety meetings in the first ninety days of their affiliation with the fellowship. Those who affiliate are expected to follow the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
– www.al-anon.org (888–4AL-ANON) Al-anon’s purpose is to help families and friends of alcoholics recover from the effects of living with a problem drinker. Alateen is the recovery program for young people sponsored by Al-anon members. Both Al-anon and Alateen are adapted from Alcoholics Anonymous and are based on the Twelve Steps. Thousands of Al-anon and Alateen support groups operate in over 100 countries around the world.
– www.rational.org/recovery (1–800-303–2873) Established as an alternative to the spiritual nature of AA as well as its view that alcoholics are powerless and must submit to God’s will in order to recover, Rational Recovery stresses the innate power and strength of individuals themselves to overcome obstacles. It rejects the AA belief that “once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.” Rational Recovery teaches people how to become independent of both alcohol addiction and of organizations dealing with alcoholism.
– www.secularhumanism.org/sos (310–821-8430) Secular Organizations For Sobriety (SOS), also known as Save Our Selves, this program stresses the need to place the highest priority on sobriety and uses mutual support to assist members in achieving this goal. The Suggested Guidelines for Sobriety emphasize rational decision-making and are not religious or spiritual in nature.
– http://smartrecovery.org (216–292-0220) Self-Management and Recovery Training (SMART Recovery) views alcohol dependence as a bad habit and attempts to use common sense techniques to break the habit.
– www.womenforsobriety.org (1–800-333–1606) The mutual support groups of Women for Sobriety work to enhance the self-esteem of members. Women for Sobriety groups are non-religious and the meetings also differ from those of AA in that they prohibit the use of tobacco, caffeine and sugar.
Source: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/DrinkTooMuch.html

Greetings,

Relevant to the discussion, I’d like to share an essay on atheism and the 12-steps here—

http://everything2.com/user/thalio/writeups/12-step+program

To get the most of this writing form (noding, they call it) check out some of the links.

Hope this is useful, and best to all.