Where did antisemitism originate from and Why?

The question bothers me. It is sort of out of context to many other anti-isms. Maybe our answers could apply to more than anti-semitism!

anti-black
anti-muslem
anti-furriners
anti-elderly
anti-semitism, fine
anti-rural folk
anti-thinking
anti-plain janes
anti-obese
anti-notcool
anti-catholic
anti-slanteyes

Removed after question was edited.

@virtualist I don’t understand why the question upsets you. Some people hate Jews specifically, assuming the OP is using the term anti-semitism to mean Jews only and not people from the middle east?

@Dog Better?

It may have started in Egypt, with the plagues and all.,
edit: People find all sorts of reasons to hate. I don’t get it.

@Judi LOL. love that answer and all.

I’m asking a question. I am not asking for you all to come back with some witty remark that this question could do without.

There is an historical antisemitism that was caused by the Jews’ refusal to Christianize, and which lasted many centuries with varying degrees of insult, injury and death..

There is also an ideological antisemitism that began in the 19th Century, and crystallized in Hitler’s policies beginning in 1936 which culminated in the attempted (and nearly completed) destruction of European Jewry between 1941 and 1945.

Which are you curious about?

@naivete Yes. That is better. It could have been mistaken as flame bait if not edited. Thanks.

@pdworkin The first. I’ve heard (through a documentary.. it may be wrong) that antisemitism was already there before the refusal to Christianize. Is this true?

All sorts of reasons I would guess. First there was Ishmael who was born to Abraham and a concubine when his wife Sarah was having trouble becoming pregnant, and he was cast out once Abraham had a legitimate son by his wife Sarah named Isaac (Isaac is leader of the Jews, or something like that). I figure Ishmael was pretty upset about that and so followed the Muslims against the Jews.

Also Pharaoh was able to enslave us Jews in history, not sure why he picked on the Jews, but he was able to control us for some reason, maybe it was sheer numbers?

Jews also in history owned business, because people would not hire them, which in the end made them very prosperous, and after a long history of having to leave dodge quickly they tended to hold onto portable things like money and jewelry, knowing they might have to leave other property behind, hence we tend to be in those lines of business, which have turned out to be profitable.

About the money it used to be considered un-Christian to make interest on money from what I understand (this has obviously changed) and so Jews were in banking, willing to lend money, but then were seen as holding all of the money and the notes/mortgages on people’s property.

Jews also have always valued education, which have led them to positions of knowledge and power, which people seem to resent.

Mostly it seems to be a tradition to be antisemitic, probably most people who are have no idea why they are, they are just hateful in general.

If you meant all people of semitic decent, all people from the middle east, you can ignore some of what I said. But, I assume you meant the common usage meaning anti-Jewish.

early christianity, deicide doctrine

Jews were landless after the Exodus, but they were a rather small desert tribe. Full-scale antisemitism began after Constantine Christianized Rome. Rome was quite tolerant of Jews up to that point, except for the occasional hothead, like Jesus.

I read a really interesting essay in the book Black Rednecks and White Liberals that looked at this very question. The author described several “middle-man” roles played by various ethnic groups over time and how in each case those ethnic groups became hated targets. They play a vital economic role, but are seen as taking advantage of others. When they are pushed out, the economy suffers. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, so I know I’m not doing the theory any justice. He used Jewish people as one of his prime examples, but also gave others. It was fascinating. Actually, all of the essays in the book are very, very good. It’s one of the books I think everyone should be required to read!

I’m sure religious differences don’t help the cause, but it was interesting to read about economic and political reasons behind anti-Semitism.

@virtualist Why are you offended by this question? Anti-Semitism is actually quite distinct from other anti-isms and has a unique history. It’s like saying you’re offended by people talking about murder when there are so many other kinds of killing.

According to Max I. Dimont, author of Jews, God and History, anti-Semitism did not come into being until 1800, and the word itself didn’t exist until 1879. He argues that scholars have retroactively labeled many acts against Jews throughout history as anti-Semitism, when in fact they might better be described as anti-Jewish. Anti-Semitism, Dimont claims, is “irrational, illogical and stems from unconscious forces.” Anti-Jewish violence, on the other hand, has logical and conscious motivation, such as robbing or converting. Also, anti-Jewish violence was directed at the individual, whereas anti-Semitism is directed toward the “Jewish race.” Anti-Semitism also deliberately seeks out Jews and Jews only as its targets, excluding those who might be equally “guilty” of whatever the Jews are accused of. Anti-Jewish acts were usually only incidental in a general campaign of violence against a large group, such as violence against non-Christians or non-Muslims. Finally, and perhaps most damning, anti-Semitism does not allow for a solution, a redemption or an alternative for being Jewish. In many anti-Jewish acts, the object was to convert the Jew to the religion of the attacker. To anti-Semites, Jewishness is a crime that cannot be obliterated or atoned for, even with conversion. This contrasts with the anti-Jewishness of the Middle Ages, where a baptized Jew became an honored citizen.

The best way to describe anti-Semitism is an aberration of the mind. As a landless people, Jews could not claim the same religious or nationalistic connection to the people around them (though they tried), so it was easy to blame problems on them. The fact that Jews tended to be successful wherever they went just brought more attention, and therefore more irrational hate, toward them.

@mammal So we can easily forget the contributions Jews have made to the world, like monotheism, weekly bathing, charity, prayer, redemption, universal education, international trade, banking, communism, capitalism and many others, because some Jews in the Middle East are protecting themselves from those that are attacking them? Laughable.

Hannah Arendt’s theory about the formalized antisemitism of the 1800s was that Jews who had once financed wars and expansion for the European Monarchies, after other means of raising capital were discovered in the 19th Century, had lost their utility, but were still wealthy and powerful, which stirred resentment.

However, since she was a student of Heidegger, who was a Nazi (she was his lover, also) her ideas have come under attack, even though she was a Jew herself.

In-group / out-group morality is an evolutionary relic related to our reptilian brain function when the rational mind goes into a snooze mode. Sometimes even the rational mind can be fooled by inventing conspiracy theories fueling antisemitism. Where did it start? I actually think it was in Europe. Much earlier Egypt was far too powerful and the issue was more about slavery than about fearing Judaism.

@drdoombot But what about the Spanish Inquisition, beginning well before the 1800’s? Wouldn’t you argue that they were anti-semitic? Even if the word was not specifically being used at the time? Or, were they just intent on converting people without hate? They seemed quite intolerant of the Jews and the Jewish religion if I remember correctly.

@drdoombot I reread your answer and see that you actually are making a distinction between trying to convert and just hating a Jew because he was born a Jew so to speak. The thing about the inquisition is if you did not convert you were killed, well I guess you could leave the country. But, I agree there is a difference between this and say the Holocaust and attitudes today. I have stated before on fluther to fluthrites who were riased in a Jewish home, but now do not identify with the religion and are atheist, that the only problem with not having a Jewish identity is that people who are antisemitic will always see you as Jewish anyway. Hitler would not have cared if a Jew said, “but I am no longer Jewish.” I think that is still how it is today.

@virtualist And I have to expand on why I was negative about your response. Recently, In May of his year, a plot was foiled to bomb a NYC synagogue http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520908,00.html I first heard this story on The View and Elisabeth Hassleback tried to argue it was not anti-semitic and everyone can identify with this, anyone who attends church or a religious place sees it as an attack on them also. Well…NO. That was attack against the Jews. If someone bombs a black baptist church, I do not think it is the same as bombing a baptist church where white people attend.

Maybe you were trying to say that hate is hate. But, you cannot get around that each form of hate has a specific reason and history, and if you are the specific minority it matters.

Also, please find me another minority that was specifically targeted for extinction by a modern, mechanized State, and which lost of six million of its members.

@pdworkin
disabled people, mentally ill, jehova’s witnesses, communists
(all of them were too shipped off to KZs)

@ragingloli And they all lost populations in excess of six million? Kindly provide a citation.

[Mod Says:] A gentle reminder that the topic is “Where did antisemitism originate from and Why?” Let’s stay on topic folks.

@ragingloli The thing about the holocaust is we lost 6 million out of 18 million world wide. It was 30% of our total population. We just now are getting back up to that number, I think the Jewish population is estimated to be at 16 million world wide now? The percentage is almost more important than the number, but the number is very important especially our total number, because it is so very small. True another 3 million were killed during Nazi Germany, handicapped and Christians, but it did not threaten the very existance of the religion. Well, maybe the numbers for the handicapped and mentally ill are significant to the total population, I do not know the answer to that.

Sorry mod, It is difficult to talk about antisemitism and not touch on antisemitic acts and their significance.

@JLeslie The goal of the Inquisition was to create a purely Christian nation, not to kill the Jews. Any violence against Jews was incidental in making the larger goal come true. There were smaller inquisitions and edicts through history that forced the migration of Jews east and then back west, but they were not driven by anti-Semitism.

Back to the main question: @pdworkin brought up Hannah Arendt and I’m reminded of a theory of hers from The Origin of Totalitarianism where she describes a new class of people that developed because of the dramatic economic upheaval caused by capitalism, colonialism and the industrial revolution. These people used to be artisans and handiworkers and the like who produced material goods, but they eventually became just parts of an assembly-line, doing meaningless work. Eventually, they were replaced even in this work by automated machinery. Arendt calls this group of people the “declassed,” because they have lost their former class status and their former security.

Max I. Dimont describes this group as the most insecure and anxious group in any society, as they are most directly affected by drastic economic changes. As Dimont writes, “The insecurity of the declassed was explained [by right-wing politicians of the day] not in terms of social and economic conditions but in terms of Jewish evildoing.” When it was capitalism that the declassed feared, the Jewish capitalist was presented as an evil force. The Jew was presented as the “plotting communist” if it was communism that people feared. The politicians who offered these explanations basically concluded that if not for the Jews, each and every member of the declassed would be a valued and respected member of society.

This was the beginning of anti-Semitism. It was a political ploy used by politicians to gain favor from a group of people who were anxious about their lives and what the future held for them. Politicians used the former anti-Jewish feelings left over from the Middle Ages to heap blame on Jews in the modern era. The difference being, of course, that they wanted to keep the Jews around for their political machinations. If the Jews were converted or banished, the declassed would have quickly realized that nothing in their lives had changed. The Jews were useful as a scapegoat for the political rhetoric of those politicians, but I don’t think anyone know that that anti-Semitism would be taken to the extreme level of actually trying to exterminate all the Jews.

@JLeslie – To me antisemitism is the most perverse form of racism. It’s such a shame it still exists and we need to come up with better strategies to fight it. I think one of the most powerful tool is student exchange programs. In just 40 years it changed German and French people from being enemies to being very close friends. A couple of years ago my daughter commented during a meal when we were talking about WWII and she told us she considered this notion of Germans and the French being enemies totally absurd. Student exchanges in Germany start around the age of 13. Of course she also participated like I did when I was her age.

I think we need something similar when it comes to Israel and American Jews and of course Jews living anywhere in this world. At some point in the future I would hope that our grandchildren would find it absurd to think of Jews as enemies or express any other absurd anti-Jewish feelings. There are so many synagogues reopening in Germany every year and there are already programs allowing young Christian kids to visit them and vice versa. My hope is that the next generation will really change everything and that eventually the concept of antisemitism is something for historians to study and preserve as a memory and warning like we do when it comes to absurds phenomena like witch hunts or cannibalism.

@mattbrowne Your idea is similar to what Seeds of Peace is trying to do http://www.seedsofpeace.org/ which brings children together from opposing sides of worn torn areas for camp to understand each other and share their perspective. A friend of mine went, he is Palestinian-American, years ago. He wound up marrying a Jewish girl. I always tell them their child will bring peace to the middle east. His father was against the marriage. Here is a trailer form the original documentary with Palestinians and Israeli’s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwb-nUVKUBI Here is a recent youtube with Afghani, Pakistan and Indian children. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh7zGrMdS1A&feature=PlayList&p=42437AEB28F9E022&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=42

In America Jews are part of the fabric of the country we are among the many so to speak, especially reformed Jews. Gentiles know us, interact with us, know our families, their is a significant amount of intermarrying. In other countries Jews are more seperated or segregated. I think it is wonderful we have this in America. My father-in-law is amazed at how different it is here for the Jews compared to Mexico. There is a worry among some Jewish people that we will be lost, that Judaism will end. Some argue atheism and intermarriage threatens our ability to exist in the future.

Also, in Germany, at the time of Hitler, Jews were accepted in all parts of society also. @drdoombot pointed out we are used as scapegoats. If it can happen in Germany it seems like it could happen anywhere.

I don’t know if I would say it is the most perverse of racism, all racism seems pretty bad to me.

@JLeslie I actually agree with the idea that atheism and intermarriage threaten future of Jewish identity, but that is a completely different discussion for a different thread.

@drdoombot I agree.

@JLeslie – Of course it can happen anywhere and also anytime in the future. Eternal vigilance is indeed the price of freedom. Yes, in Germany, at the time of Hitler, Jews were accepted in all parts of society. Einstein was a German Jew and he was very smart in 1933 to emigrate permanently to the United States. Hitler became chancellor on January 30, 1933.

Today individual Jews are not very visible in Germany for two reasons. They are a small minority as a result of the Holocaust. Today we have 106,000 Jews in Germany. Almost none of them are orthodox or ultraorthodox.

@mattbrowne When I was in Germany 20 years ago I went to a smallish Oktoberfest, and a man said to me, “you look like Barbra Streisand, very beautiful,” And then he changed his tone and spoke more under his breath and said, “be careful.” That was weird. I do “look” Jewish, that is if you know what to look for. I will say I would feel very safe in Germany today, I am not implying there is still strong antisemitism in Germany

@JLeslie – Wasn’t his warning about drunken horny men trying to get into bed with innocent tourists?

@mattbrowne it didn’t seem that way after the Streisand comment. I should say overall Germany was wonderful, people there were friendly and helpful, and the country is beautiful. I would definitely go back.

@JLeslie – Well, if you conducted a survey in Germany today asking 10000 people about the religious affiliation of Barbra Streisand my bet would be 9990 wouldn’t have a clue. They would probably guess and come up with the wrong answer. Actually I never asked myself this question until I was really impressed by the movie Yentl and Streisand’s extraordinary performance and wanted to know more about the story and the actress.

Ah, in case you’ve got travel plans, stop by our house and we’ll have coffee and some German cakes! I would use email to tell you my postal address.

@mattbrowne Really? They would not know Streisands religious affiliation? I never even thought of that. Thanks for the offer, currently we have no plans to travel to Germany. I do have a friend in Berlin I would love to see, and my husband wants to go to the Porsche factory or head quarters, whatever it is you can visit regarding Porsche he would want to go to.

@JLeslie
The religious affiliation of a person usually isn’t part of the topics of conversation in the Fatherland, as opposed to the US (or so i have heard) where such a question is among the first asked.
I knew the religion of only 2 pupils at my former school, and that only because one was the son of a pastor who also happened to teach religion at my school and the other was quite vocal about her beliefs (She could easily be classified as a creationist and fundamentalist purely based on her proclamations)

@JLeslie ; I’m pretty ignorant about that kind of stuff too. I used to work for a company called Cohen Brothers Furniture and didn’t realize that they were Jewish until someone pointed it out to me. Others laughed at me though.

@Judi That does amaze me. But, I live outside of Memphis and people here have no clue about Jewish last names or any other cues someone is Jewish. My married last name is VERY Jewish and people here have no idea. My maiden name is also, but not so obvious as it is very rare. Here, I attribute it to people just assuming everyone is Christian, since almost everyone they come into contact with is. And, it is not that it is not discussed here, they come right out and ask, “what church do you attend,” within minutes of meeting you sometimes, contrary to what @ragingloli pointed out about Germany.

@JLeslie ; I don’t know if I am happy because I am oblivious to the stereotypes so I don’t have prejudgments in my head or if I feel stupid for being ignorant of community.

@Judi I think it is a good thing.

I agree with @ragingloli‘s perception. Usually it’s not a big issue over here. Same for the sex life of public figures. Sure, the tabloids want to make money out of it, but a Monica Lewinsky type public frenzy would be very untypical for Germany. We’ve got other frenzies though, like when people suggest the speed limit on autobahns should be 130 km/h (81 mph).

There is an issue with Muslim women wearing head scarves, though, but that would be a new debate.