In the Buffyverse, who were the "vampire with a soul" prophecies about? Angel or Spike?

I know it wasn’t ever answered in the TV series. It might be answered in the comics, but as I haven’t picked those up yet, I can’t help you there.

However, the group that Angel signs the paper for are the same group that Angel and the gang were trying to destroy at the end of s. 5 (Wolfram and Hart), so I would assume if they went away, the contract wouldn’t matter anymore. But…W&H are huuuuge.

Also, the prophecy is sort of implied, throughout the series, as something that happens waaay in the future, after Angel (or Spike) has saved the world and himself many times over. So, maybe by the time Mal and the rest of the Firefly gang catch up with one or both vampires, the prophecy will have come true! :P

Sorry I can’t help more!

I think @evegrimm has the right idea. I always felt they were about Spike, however, since he did do that whole thing at the Hellmouth.

@grumpyfish, Angel and Spike were constantly arguing about who had saved the world more times. Usually, Angel comes out ahead, but then again, he’s had a soul and done the whole “saving people thing” for much longer than Spike has. Spike is sorta “born-again”. :P

Hmm…IIRC, Angel becomes human in the comic series, so maybe it was about him? Angel’s inner monologue reveals his wounds are mortal, and he is no longer a vampire. (From #3.) The summaries are very brief, so it’s hard to tell!

I should really watch Angel.

It definitely wasn’t resolved in the series. Spike even referred to the fact that they let that little storyline drop by the wayside. In the last episode, he said something like “What about all that Shanshu bugaboo? We never figured out which of us gets to be a real boy.” To which a very melancholy Angel replied, “There is no reward Spike. Not for us.”

There was some debate between the two of them about who was the one who would save the world eventually. I haven’t seen the last two episodes so I don’t know how the series ends. However, at some point, Spike did seem to think that because he destroyed Sunnydale that the prophecy was fulfilled. however, just like everybody else on here, I have no idea.

Spike comes back???? You may have all just convinced me to watch Angel!

@fireinthepriory Yes, in the fifth and final season of Angel (which was just after Spike “died” in the seventh and final season of Buffy).

This may be heresy, but I like Angel marginally better than Buffy. Watch the series from the beginning. Don’t just watch the 5th season for Spike

@MrItty I don’t think it’s heresy—they did a very good job about turning a show about teenagers into a show about adults with the shift from Buffy to Angel.

I definitely still enjoy Buffy, but Angel deals with some more “grown up” themes =) (Like being turned into a muppet)

@grumpyfish : I couldn’t get into Angel as much for some reason. I’d like to try again, which is why the series is on my Christmas list this year! I tried a long time ago to watch it from the beginning. I know the basic story line and have read some of the Buffy comics… I did catch the puppet episode and it creeped me out. Yick. I hate puppets. I have to skip over the Puppet Show episode of Buffy when I watch.

@ubersiren the Puppet Show episode of Angel was…. atypical. Definitely played for humor, and really not at all representative of the series as a whole.

@MrItty : Yeah, that’s what I’m told. I think that may have been what I missed in Angel- some of the Whedony humor. But there are serious holes in my Buffyverse knowledge which can only be filled in by the Angel series. So, perhaps I can watch it and just skip over that episode. ;)

@MrItty Now that I’m done with Buffy I may as well watch all of Angel… so much time to fill! Not to mention I don’t like starting things in the middle. You lose so much context.

@ubersiren & @fireinthepriory Frankly, I don’t know how you could have standed to watch Buffy with all the Angel-crossovers and not immediately gone to find the corresponding Angel eps…. ;-)

When Angel appeared on Buffy during the Native American ghost episode, and Giles said “So your friend had a vision of Buffy in trouble”, didn’t you want to know who and why?

When Xander accidentally revealed Angel had been around and Buffy got pissed, didn’t you want to see her follow up on it?

When Buffy recovered the ring that makes Vamps impervious to sunlight, and gave it to Oz to give to Angel, didn’t you want to see what happened?

When Angel comes to Sunnydale and gets in a fight with Buffy’s new boyfriend Riley, didn’t you want to know what led up to the fight?

When Willow returned from LA with Faith in tow, weren’t you curious how she got there?

When Angel gives Buffy the amulet for Spike to wear, didn’t you want to know where it came from and how and why he got it?

…. I may be a little obsessed. :-P

Yes! I definitely wondered about some of that, but a lot of it is somewhat explained in the episodes, or was easily found out by research or gossip from friends who are rabid fans. None of it is especially essential to the overall Buffy plot. Despite some missing details, I just enjoyed the series for what it is. Though, now I need more Buffyverse so Angel is next on the list.

@MrItty Basically I was too excited to get to the next Buffy episode to stop long enough to watch any Angel. And since I finished Buffy last year (I know, I was waaaay late to the Buffy train – you can thank @adreamofautumn for introducing me to Fluther AND Buffy! What a doll.) I haven’t had a lot of free time to watch any TV, and I’d forgotten about all those crossover mysteries… Now that I do remember, I’m probably going to get hooked again. If I don’t finish my Masters’ thesis on time, I’m gonna blame you!! ;)

Buffy movie, NOW! I need closure.

I second @tinyfaery! woop woop! You know, besides the Buffy movie that already exists.

@ubersiren, what Buffy movie? :P

I would like to agree with @MrItty and say that I prefer Angel to Buffy, and not only because there are many more hot guys on Angel than Buffy. Really.

I like that Joss took several characters from the Buffyverse over to Angel, and then they grew exponentially. (Angel, Wesley, Cordelia, Faith)

I also like the characters that are unique to the ‘verse, especially Fred and Lilah.

I feel that Angel is a much more intelligent, enjoyable show than Buffy, partly because of the more adult issues and because Buffy’s not on it. It’s no longer about the Slayer thank god.

Also, Angel doesn’t change its direction as much as Buffy does, after the 3rd (or arguably, 4th) season, making it easier to watch as a cohesive unit. And finally, there is much more of a story arc present in the Angel seasons than in Buffy.

@evegrimm I completely disagree. I never really liked Angel, even when he was on Buffy. Now, if they gave Spike a show…

@tinyfaery: Somewhere, a fangirl’s head just exploded.

What’s a fangirl? Angel is soo earnest and self-effacing. Spike is a rebel who likes to have a good time. There is no comparison, imo.

I agree 100% with you, @tinyfaery, on that one. If Spike had a show I’d be watching it right now!

I always wanted there to be a way for Buffy and Angel to get back together. She had even more of a disgusting relationship when she was with Spike.Wasn’t it called the Shanshu prophecy?