Roomate problems...What to do?

Move, she’s not going to change.

I don’t want to move, I put too much time and effort into this place. I painted my room, moved some walls…anyways you get the point. I was here first and moving is not an option.

Are you the primary on the lease? If so, look for a new roomate and bounce her.

But I agree, she will not change.

we’re both on the lease and there is no primary.

Try something like intervention with friends to back you up. Ask if she wants to pay half to hire a maid service if she won’t do half the work.

Try sitting her down and having a serious talk about it.

If it was me, there would be some serious changes around. I wouldn’t pay the light bill or anything that I could go without for a little while just so she would get the picture. If she doesn’t change to help around the house, I would make it so she wouldn’t want to live there.

What I have resorted to when confronted with a grown son with that issue, every single time he ‘transgressed’ I would immediately call him on it, and require him to comply. If you really want the situation to get better, you must be more assertive. The only other option, since you say you don’t want to move, is get used to it.

Not answering your question so much but you are renting? How can you move walls?

lol.. uhm, lets just say that i know the guy who owns my building. i’m pretty lucky!

For stuff like dishes, she’ll have to wash them once they run out. Can you like hide the dishes and allot her a certain amount? Once they’re dirty she’ll have to wash them if she doesn’t have access to clean ones.

In my apartment (students) we have so much silverware. We put some in a remote drawer to use only if we had a lot of guests or something. Of course, once all the first string silverware was dirty, my housemates went for the excess silverware rather than washing it. So I took all the backup silverware and hid it really really well. Now there are only like eight forks accessible for the four of us, so people are actually washing them.

I was the dirty roommate. I second what @faye said.

in my view, you have to accept that it’s not a matter of her choosing to be messy or lazy. it’s a matter of her not knowing how to be another kind of person. whatever’s going on in her head literally prevents her from acting on your priorities even if she latently wishes she could. being a clean person is something she has to learn to do, it’s not something she can just do.

i second the “have a serious talk” idea. don’t bother trying to make her suffer for her inabilities, instead aim to help her reach her own goals of cleanliness. rehab is always preferable to prison.

Pick up everything she leaves around, everything, and put it on her bed, everyday. If it has food or drink in it, oh well. If it’s trash, too bad. If she removes it from her bed, but doesn’t clean it or put it away, put it right back.

More work for @mclaugh I tried that with my kids, finally had to blow a gasket.

Presumably, the
roommate is an adult.

yea, i don’t like the aggression or the work involved in that suggestion. ^^^
every challenge you face with another human is a chance to grow together.
...

wow, that was some hippy-rhetoric sounding bs right there. haha, but it’s true. instead of making this a reason to fallout with her, make it into something positive. she would enjoy having more productive habits but she’s not going to develop those new habits without new ideas about being clean getting into her head.

Those ideas aren’t going to materialize out of thin air. You have to share your ideas about cleanliness with her. And I don’t mean your demands for action but your philosophy about a clean environment. Why be clean. Why make time. She needs to know how you balance such a busy life and still find the energy to clean. She already knows that you’re cleaner than her, y ou aren’t competing with her. You have to have a forum with her.

Clutter is a learned behavior and it is hard to change. Unless you can kick her out, I doubt you have much hope of changing her. You are a roommate that she probably wants to have a good relationship with, but she will need a lot more motivation than that.

I think your best bet is to live with it until this lease is up and not renew with her. Hopefully she will agree to move without argument. If not, maybe knowing the owner of the building will help be able to keep the place instead of her.

I’m with @faye on hiring a maid service. They really don’t cost that much if you have them come by once every couple weeks, and it makes a huge difference. You could offer to split it, which is tactful, or you could say, “look, b****, this place wasn’t messy before you moved in. So you are paying for a maid service,” which will probably result in a huge fight but sounds fair in this situation.

@Haleth i would probably go with your last option. lol

i’m so frustrated at this point. i have tried to talk to her on several occasions, telling her why i like the place clean and how hard it is for me to do all of it when i’m so busy. she just doesn’t care. we are good friends right now, but i think i’m about to start withholding myself from being nice or even talking to her(or i might blow a fuse) until she starts being more respectful of my stuff(everything in our shared quarters is mine) and more considerate.

thanks for all of your suggestions, you’re all very helpful!

How much longer is on the lease? Can you wait her out? Can your friend, the building owner, find a way to help you bounce her out?

If all else fails, be glad you didn’t have to live with this guy.

@laureth Wow.

Tell her she’s off the lease as of March 1st. Better yet, et your landlord friend to tell her that. In the meantime, take anything that she’s left out, and throw it into her room, and shut the door.

Leave a carefully written noteto explain the situation. If she doesn’t like it you should suggest she move on. Otherwise insist that you both need to put x amount of time into looking after the place weekly. If she doesn’t want to do hers she should hire a part time cleaner to assist.

Is she messier than you’d like or actually unsanitary? People have different levels of acceptable tidiness, which is one of the many reasons it’s important to know someone well and set serious ground rules before living together. The problem here is that you’re both on the lease- I’m pretty sure that means she has just as much a right to live there as you do, and that it’s probably illegal to kick her out. If you talked to her about the way you want to live and she has a different point of view about what’s acceptable, it’s really not anyone’s fault and it’s not her job to reach your standards, especially if she’s reaching a normal level of sanitation.
She might think of you as the crazy anal roomie, by the way. You guys just don’t seem compatible, so unless there’s a mutual decision to leave you just have to deal with your choice of roommate until the lease expires.

I agree with this too ^ everyone’s different. If the place is always kept at your level of cleanliness, then the others are literally giving in to your demands. Whereas, if you live at their level of cleanliness, you are giving in to their demands. I think you guys need to come to an agreement about how clean the place should be and then just stop complaining once that level of cleanliness is met.

The problem is, you may just be steamrolling her when you talk about this stuff. Making her feel bad for what she considers acceptable. So, she may agree (out of embarrassment) to a goal of at a higher level of cleanliness than she’s actually able to maintain. The goal then, should be to find out what’s doable and be satisfied with that.

Anyway, @Haleth said: ”“look, b****, this place wasn’t messy before you moved in. So you are paying for a maid service,” which will probably result in a huge fight but sounds fair in this situation.”

It’s no more fair than @mclaugh paying for it all since she’s the “uptight” one who requires the place to be kept at a certain standard. There’s no such thing as “fair”.. there are only good ideas and bad ideas.

I didn’t really want to say much because I am so ashamed. But really I was the dirty roommate that others couldn’t stand (in that term only btw). There was no convincing me to clean. That was for several reasons. Basically my life was too involved to worry about something as trivial as cleaning AND I didn’t care if I was harassed about it. I could try and explain more if you need. But really I don’t think that you have a strong possibility of changing her habits. She will need to learn that on her own. I know it has already been said a hundred times on here but just to re-emphasize the point.

“really I don’t think that you have a strong possibility of changing her habits. She will need to learn that on her own.”

ugh.. the thing is, people don’t learn things “on their own.” they learn via their experiences, which everyone else happens to be a part of. @mclaugh has an opportunity to provide her roommate with a set of experiences that contribute to her education as a human being. @mclaugh has an opportunity to affect her rommate’s life in such a way that the roomie learns to live according to @mclaugh‘s philosophies of cleanliness.

Okay, here’s the big secret: what your roommate needs is positive cleaning experiences to remember and base her future actions on. I’ll provide a real life example: Myself, I’ve always have an issue with tidying up. I would put my clean clothes in a pile on my bed to remind me to fold them and put them away later. Later, however, i would move them to my chair so i could go to sleep expecting that i would fold them the next morning. In the morning, I would be late for work so I grab whatever clean clothes i need from the chair, displace some onto the floor or onto the bed and rush out the door. I would get home and I’m tired and the place is a comfy disorganized mess. This is an ongoing battle, mind you.

Not long ago, a cutie i’ve been seeing and i wanted to get cozy and sure enough my clean laundry was waiting for me on the bed. I tried to discreetly move it over to the chair and out of the way for later but she stopped me. She let out this cute little sigh and started folding things up and putting them into my suitcase (i was heading out on a business trip). I helped her of course. We had a great chat during that process and a splendid sleepover party. :) Anyway, ever since then, I’ve been having trouble letting my clean clothes sit on my bed. I tend to clean that shit up quick nowadays. And I always think of her as I do it.

If you want a second example.. a few days ago, i received a very pleasant compliment from lynneblundell about how i shared a personal experience and how it helped her to see a point. Now, I’ve done it again. Because of the positive experience lynneblundell gave me, I’m repeating the action in communicating with you, @mclaugh. :)

Positive experiences lead to repeat behavior. Basic-basic marketing advice.

@RedPowerLady I was/am the same person. I’m messy. Period. I let people know this before I moved in with them when I was living with roommates. If someone lied about how they live, however, it’s a different story. But if I let it be known that I’m not tidy, someone chooses to live with me anyway, then bugs me about it? Tough shit. Also tough shit if someone claims to be laid back about cleanliness then turns out to be anal.

@Likeradar I let them know beforehand too, lol. I had no reason to lie. Plus they lived across me in the Dorms and saw my room… haha.

I’m laughing at your answer because that describes so many people (claim to be laid back about cleaning but are actually anal).

@RedPowerLady I know it! I had a roomie in college who pretended she was very chill and laid back but was really super anal. That’s the worst!

What bugs me is that so many people in this thread are acting like the roomie is in the wrong and needs to be taught how to change, and someone even suggested that @mclaugh should collect her things and dump them in her room. Adults are honest about their habits, choose roomies with like habits, accept that everyone has their quirks, learn through experiences the kind of roommate they are and the kind they want to live with, and don’t do these things to each other.

@Likeradar I agree it is better to be humane than mean. People all have their flaws and to live in this world we have to learn to live with them. Now I completely understand not wanting to live in someone else’s filth but at the same time I agree with your statement “don’t do these things to each other”.

@ninjacolin i don’t think that asking to sweep the floor once a week(each) and doing your dishes is too much to ask for. we both have long hair so, it’s pretty necessary to sweep once or twice a week. i don’t think i’m anal about cleaning at alll! the only thing i asked her was to keep the place “presentable” since we both like to have friends over and i don’t want my friends thinking my place is a pig sty.

@Likeradar well, you know, i agree that dumping stuff on her bed wouldn’t be nice, since i wouldn’t want the same done to me but, there is no oppurtunity for her to do it to me, since i actually pick up my stuff and take it to my room… on my OWN! i have told her time and time again that it frustrates me to have all of her things in our shared quarters and she always promises to pick it up, yet she doesn’t. if you’re not going to do it, then tell me and then i won’t be disapointed when i come back home and the place is still a mess, or even more of a mess than when i left. and as for telling eachother about our cleaning habits before we moved in together, she lied. and i know some of you might think that i’m probably anal, but i’m really not. it’s just that when her pile of dishes is in the sink(and has beem there for 2 weeks) and there’s no place for me to do my dishes, then that becomes a problem. when she cooks/bakes she always says she’ll clean right after, yet the pot(my brand new stainless steel pot) she made chili in, stayed on the stove for more than 2 weeks…anyways.

like you all have said, she won’t change.. so i’m going to have to find some other solution.

@mclaugh I agree that she won’t change.
But perhaps it will help your stress level if you realize you are not her parent but her peer. Just forget about telling her what to do or thinking about what is or isn’t appropriate for her to do. If her dishes are in the sink take them out and set them to the side and do your own. If you start to get fruit flies then that’d be a problem, lol, but at that point she’d probably be embarrassed and clean them up.

she still doesnt clean up when we get fruit flies.. maybe i will just leave my computer on, leave it at this page and let her walk by? haha :)

@mclaugh That is always a way to go about it, lol.

@mclaugh said: “i don’t think that asking to sweep the floor once a week(each) and doing your dishes is too much to ask for”

clearly, you’re wrong. and that’s what i want you to appreciate, you are asking more of her than she has been able to give. the problem is frustrating when you think of it as a a problem with her morality or desire.. however, the problem is corrigible when you realize that it is a matter of ability.

she’s unable to do what you want right now. and i’m not saying that she must, but i am suggesting that you can make it so… if you want.

@ninjacolin i totally agree! thanks for all your help! :)

i think she just has a problem with doing things “half-assed”.. in all aspects of her life. i guess she just needs to work on her problems on her own, cleanliness being one of them. maybe i am asking too much out of her. i’ll ask her to have a sit-down again this weekend and talk about everything…again. lol as you all have said, i’ll try to make this a positive experience. i’ll try to think of ways so that the cleaning doesn’t seem so much of a chore to her.

@mclaugh just don’t get pissed if the sit down doesn’t work because it may work for a week or two but i doubt it will change her habits, sorry to say

“the problem is frustrating when you think of it as a problem with her morality or desire”

just to illustrate: imagine a foreigner who considers it rude that you don’t speak to them in their own language. you would really like to avoid seeming rude, but unfortunately, you don’t have the memories instilled in you to be able to facilitate their request. you’re not a morally bankrupt person. you’re simply unable in the current moment and it will take work to get you to become able.

when it’s a matter of friends and family and often even co-workers, you really have to realize that you’re a part of their life and that you can be a part of the solutions to any of their problems. it sounds as though she has the deisre to accommodate you, it sounds like it’s something she wishes she knew how to be. so don’t don’t hold it against her that she.. sucks at it. Instead, help her get better. Help her achieve her goals.

and again, I strongly recommend simply giving her good cleaning memories to work with. it has less to do with the pep talk and more to do with those raw memories themselves. habits aren’t developed from talks, they’re developed from experiences.

@ninjacolin enjoying your responses, coming from experience?

everything we say does! :)

@mclaugh, I have friends whose children grew up in households where a cleaning service came once a week, their mothers did their laundry and hung it up/put it in the drawer, and they didn’t eat together as a family, so doing dishes was never an option.

People living on their own for the first time forget that with rights, comes responsibility. You’re responsible to the people that you live with to agree to what the standard is, what the individual commitment is, and what the recourse is if you don’t meet the obligation. If your roommate is promising to pick up her stuff, and is not doing it, then she is not honoring her commitment. She may have done that to her parents when she lived at home, and they let her slide because it was easier to just do it themselves than to insist she look after herself.

You, however, are not her mother, and should not be expected to either clean up after her, or have to live in chaos when the agreement is not met. It sounds to me that this person is not a personal friend, but a roommate. Roommates may become friends, but very often they are just people you live with.

You need a structured set of expectations, because it doesn’t sound like she instinctively knows how to live on her own. You really need to meet with her and draw up a list of chores, when they’re do be done, and get her to sign it. Include what the repercussions are if the chores are not done. Perhaps if she misses her obligations, she is required to pay an extra $50 towards the rent each time she doesn’t hold up her end of cleaning, and the same for you. Even though both names are on the lease, it sounds like you’re the one with the relationship with the landlord, and were there first. If she can’t hold up her end, then she should be looking for a different living arrangement when the lease is up.

It is not too much to ask that a person clean up their own kitchen mess before going to bed, clean the bathroom after they use it, hang up their clothing in common space, take out the trash/recycles once a week as they’re heading out the door, and to one a week sweep/vacuum/tidy common space. We’re talking 15–30 minutes of effort on a daily basis.

I think the idea of splitting the cost of some form of maid service is the best solution here.
So far it seems to be the only way for you to keep your cool, and maintain your ‘friendship’ with her.

i am not paying for a maid when i’m doing my share. i’m a student. there is no way i could ever find the money to hire any help. but thanks for the suggestions.. if only i was a rich kid. lol

how’re things going anyway?

well, we made a list of things that need to be done and how often they need to be done every week(it was her idea) and i guess things have stayed a little cleaner. i’m leaving the partment for two weeks druing christmas break and she’s staying so hopefully the place is the same way i left it when i come back!