Do you consider the term hermaphrodite, for an intersexual person, to be offensive?

It’s a medical term, do people who are find it offensive? I don’t.

@faye That’s cool. Neither do I. But was around a bunch of people today who said they thought it was.

A hermaphrodite is just a medical condition some people are born with. There’s nothing to the word more than a way of categorization, same as when describing skin color. However, when discrimination comes in, this could be taken to a higher level depending on the insult.

Did they say why?

It’s not used colloquially enough to have a negative connotation. For me anyway.

Interesting question.

I don’t find “hermaphrodite” offensive. It’s just inaccurate.

If the person was born intersex for either ambiguous genitalia or a hormonal difficulty, then it is the correct medical term. But I do know that individuals born like this do prefer the term intersex instead.

One group which does not appreciate the term hermaphrodite is transgender folks, either pre-op or post-op. A transgender friend of mine said that many transgenders abhor the term because it is not only a very old fashioned carryover from less enlightened times but also because it is wildly inaccurate.

I also think that the word has just fallen out of fashion and represents a more primitive way of thinking about such a complex issue. Something analogous might help in clarifying this.

Children born with Down Syndrome are no longer called Mongoloid. The far more accurate term for Siamese twins is conjoined twins. Little people prefer that term or dwarf as opposed to midget since that has all the old fashioned and demeaning imagery of carnival sideshows and such.

I don’t perceive hermaphrodite as having necessarily demeaning or derogatory intent but I think it is representative of a more simplistic way of people born with some extremely complex medical issues. It just seems a more primitive term over the word intersex.

Hermaphroditism is so rare that whether or not you are being offensive, you are almost certain to be wrong. Intersex people have ambiguous genitalia. Hermaphrodites have both ovarian and testicular tissue. It would not be offensive if applied correctly, it may possibly be offensive if applied incorrectly, which it almost always is.

No and as @pdworkin says, it’s pretty rare so I can’t see how it could turned into a successful insult towards anyone.

The term is perfectly acceptable. I can think of a lot worse terms for it.

I think it would be nice if humanity in general would stop taking offence at classificational terms that were not deliberately invented to insult them. Too many groups have already ended up on the euphemism treadmill.

If a social group has a bad image, it’s not the fault of whatever word is used to describe them, and using a different word will not solve the problem. It will confuse people for ten minutes and then get the same negative connotations again when everyone gets used to it.

Replacing the words every time the connotations rear their ugly heads again is madness.

Only becase it’s so often wrong. It’s like calling a fireplace an oven.

Ask Hermy Gaga…er… Lady Gaga.

@Buttonstc transgender is totally different from a hermaphrodite, transgender is more of a
“choice”(i use the term loosely here) and people born with both genders is a genetic thing…. as far as the term i think if used in its proper meaning its fine, but not the nicest… sometimes accurate titles especially medical ones are very cold and have a demeaning feel to them , I work with the disabled and one of my clients medically was referred to as being mentally retarded , i have always found this term offensive so was rather surprised by the doctor who assessed and labled him as such

—so wait, I thought hermaphroditism was just the old term for intersex? “The older term for this condition, hermaphroditism, came from joining the names of a Greek god and goddess, Hermes and Aphrodite. Hermes was a god of male sexuality (among other things) and Aphrodite a goddess of female sexuality, love, and beauty.
Although the older terms are still included in this article for reference, they have been replaced by most experts (and patients and families) because they are misleading, confusing, and insensitive. Increasingly this group of conditions is being called disorders of sex development (DSDs).”—
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Intersex

@evil2 Transgender is not a choice.

@loser that is why i used the term loosely , i know its not a concious choice, like i am going to be a lawyer, but in compairison to a intersex person it is a big difference

No but I would be offended if they didn’t tell me they were an hermaphrodite until we got to the bedroom.

the term i consider inoffensive—nearly clinical, in fact—but very non-specific.

i’ll post some info that i promised to look up for my spouse for the book club’s discussion of Middlesex by Jeffry Eugenides (i wonder whether that is a pseudonym, playing off “eugenics”).

@eponymoushipster
Lady Gaga is not a hermaphrodite.

I cannot fathom why this term would be offensive.

@casheroo: Historically, people with intersex conditions were referred to as hermaphrodites. But since, technically, hermaphrodites can reproduce and that doesn’t happen in humans with these conditions, the terminology has changed.

@evil

Yes, I am aware of the fact that transgender is totally different from hermaphrodite. That’s precisely why (as I mentioned) that it is irksome to transgender folks when clueless people use that term to lump them all together. That’s why I said ” wildly inaccurate”.

I just think it’s an outdated term because there are so many different permutations of intersex conditions.

Plus, I think that the term intersex has an elegant simplicity about itself. That’s just my personal opinion fwiw.

Many intersex people find it offensive and therefore I find it offensive on their behalf
It is also an incorrect term as some people above have mentioned because there are NO true human hermaphrodites…a hermaphrodite is defined as an organism having BOTH functioning reproductive systems…which no human has even if that human has both ovarian and testicular tissue, they don’t have two separate fully functioning reproductive systems…so in conclusion, the term is incorrect and offensive…

and for the record just because something is a medical term or just because there are worse things to call a person or just because there’s something else ‘freaky’ you can people like transgender DOES NOT mean it’s not offensive…please if you don’t know something, read up on it

Fun fact: the term “hermaphrodite” isn’t originally clinical at all. It’s from Greek mythology.
The myth told that Hermes and Aphrodite once had a son, which they called hermaphroditus, combining their own names. Later in his life, through a questionable kind of divinely aided rape, his body was merged together with that of a crazy nymph who had the hots for him. And the end result was, well, a hermaphrodite person.

With that in mind, I actually think it’s a nicely classic word. Poetic, even. Not at all cold and clinical.

I mean, come on. You’re named after the child of two gods.

@Fyrius while the history is pleasant, the connotations with which that term gets thrown around are not

@MacBean So, intersex is more how the person feels, not anything physical? I’m sorry, I feel like I’m getting confused lol

@casheroo there might some people (I’m thinking very few) who would identify as intersex openly without having a physicality to go with it…however, some intersex individuals do not identify as intersex at all..they identify as one of the two major sexes…when you add gender identity into the mix, it can change up things as well…some intersex people may identify as transgender as well but it is by no means an inevitable connection…

@Buttonstc i would say i agree….

@Fryius

Well, not ALL of the history is that rosy a portrayal.

Let’s not forget that it also carries with it the association os carnival sideshows and all their assorted “freak” acts.

Most of the time those who portrayed the sideshow hermaphrodites were not intersex but merely a cutrate variation of some type of crossdresser. The typical half and half portrayal is sheer hucksterism bearing no relationship to reality.

I don’t blame those with dwarfism for abhoring the term midget, so I can also understand why intersex people eschew being called hermaphrodites. The freak show aspects override the seemingly mythical magical connotations of folklore.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
I once again refer to the euphemism treadmill effect. You can keep picking new names until the cows come home, but the nasty connotations will come back every time. The connotations are a result of the group’s image, not the other way around.
What would be more helpful would be to stick with one word – hermaphrodite will do fine – and try to get people to understand it’s not a bad thing to be.

Consider this.
The word “atheist” has been a horrible insult for centuries, or millennia. It had connotations of debauchery and ruthlessness that made anyone cringe. They were godless criminals, they didn’t care about anything or anyone, they were basically evil incarnate.
But now, people are willingly assuming the label “atheist” and slowly getting people to understand we’re not really that scary. And I believe those ancient negative connotations have largely disappeared.

That’s the way to do it.

@Fyrius I see what you’re saying…however the group should get to decide what they want to be called, not the people outside the group…and as far as I know at least in NYC and for the national organizations dealing with intersex issues that I have met, intersex is the preferred term…now does every intersex person want to be called that? no. are there people out there okay with being called hermaphrodites? maybe, probably. but to be more accurate, I use this term…it is what I have been asked to do…it would be insensitive of me to say ‘oh you want to be called intersex? why can’t I just say hermaphrodite but I promise I’ll mean it in a good way’...just like when people want to call me bisexual when I want to be called queer…it doesn’t work

Chromosomes. Whatever physical genitalia you see, doesn’t much matter, chromosomes will tell who is what. Intersex is a more fitting word.

@hungryhungryhortence actually there are no clear cut physical indicators that will tell you…there are plenty of people who have an ‘unusual’ chromosome situation – XXO, XXY, etc…when an intersex child is born, their genitalia, chromosomes, hormones all get considered and the team including the parents (well hopefully) decides how the child should be raised cause, god forbid, it’s not raised as a girl or a boy…

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: True enough. Poor parents who have to decide then catch crap from the kid who doesn’t like what they picked~

@hungryhungryhortence I definitely feel more for the kids

Well, as long as they don’t subject the kid to surgery with irreversible results, changing a mere label is probably not that big a deal by comparison.

@Buttonstc sadly, there are few parents out there who will stand up and say ‘no, don’t cut’ because such situations are so foreign to them, they completely believe the physicians…especially since they’re told that it’s absolutely imperative to pick a sex and a gender so that hormone treatments can be started asap…

Sadly you’re correct about that.

I saw a documentary about a boy who was subjected to a botched circumcision resulting in the amputation of his penis.

That was horrific enough. But then this doctor entered the picture who told the parents that they should raise him as a girl. It would be easier, he said.

That’s what they did and this kid went through hell before they fessed up to the truth (I believe it was precipitated by his suicide attempt)

They were just simple gullible folks who thought they were doing what was best. Can you imagine?

@Buttonstc it’s a hard situation – parents do want to do what’s best…which is why I think it’s important to educate physicians on these matters

Yeah, you’re right about that.

But even if they could just wait long enough to give the parents time tovarjust from the shock. I honestly don’t understand why the big rush.

It’s not as if a baby (clothed) is easily identifiable as male or female. Strictly speaking, a gender label isn’t an absolute necessity until entering school.

After seeing this one documentary in which numerous adult intersex folks told their life experiences, It caused me to think “what would I do if I gave birth to an intersex child?”

Aside from immediate friends and family, who else in society at large would need to know absolutely. People in the grocery store or whatever can make whatever assumptions they want.

I guess that may sound a bit too naively optimistic, but it’s still better than surgery.

And hopefully somewhere around three or four, the child might give some indications by their play behavior or whatever which direction the inner gender ID is heading. That way it would up the chances of guessing right by the time school age arrives.

Personally, I think anything would be better than premature surgery.

@Buttonstc as a mother myself, I have, as well, considered what my husband and I would do – thankfully I am aware of these issues and we wouldn’t operate…we would raise it as one gender so that people don’t ask questions but as soon as possible we’d discuss it with our child..we’d definitely talk about how gender is just a construct and how even physical sex is wishy washy and that they are fine the way they are and that if necessary they can change their physical attributes or gender identity and we’d support it…

When you speak of gender as a construct, do you mean as opposed to innate?

My main reason for asking that is because of what I have learned from my transgender friend.

The extraordinary motivation of transgender folks to have their outside match the inside would strongly suggest that gender identity is innate. In spite of everyone around her treating her as male (based upon her obviously male body) she had felt like a girl inside from a remarkably young age (preschool)

@Buttonstc yes that is how I mean it…transgender people are not different from us…they grow up in a gendered world, they feel they have a gender or that another gender matches their life more but it doesn’t mean there are only two genders…it just means that for them the other option (as, really, we only give people two) fits more…

there are plenty of people who don’t fit into either gender…like me…I have female parts but don’t ‘feel’ like a woman or a man..that’s that

@casheroo , @hungryhungryhortence :
Here is some info. Up to you whether you trust it. My personal experience of the author is that he’s usually careful to get things right. Do’t be fooled by the words in the link—just follow it.

http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/marriage.html

But why conflate transgender issues with hermaphroditism?

@pdworkin one shouldn’t – just that sometimes an intersex person also identifies as a trans person

But the percentage of intersex people who are hermaphrodites is vanishingly small. It just doesn’t occur.

@pdworkin well what does that have to do with whether or not one is transgender?

never mind

@casheroo: Don’t worry. It’s confusing. No, I think it’s definitely a physical thing. For example, I don’t really identify with either gender, but since I have clearly defined girlbits, I’m genderqueer instead of intersex. BTW, Wikipedia has a good chart of intersex conditions that you might be interested in, since I know you’re a curious ‘roo. :)

Hermaphrodites are born with both a penis and a vagina. It is a physical irregularity.
It really has nothing to do with being transexual, queer, or anything regarding what people are sexually drawn towards.

<—— amazed that no one has mentioned Jamie Lee Curtis

How can I be offended? If someone called me or anyone else one, they would most likely be wrong. It’s ignorant, not offensive

@filmfann Hermaphrodites are born with both ovarian and testicular tissue. A penis is a masculinized vagina. There is no such thing as having both. And the Jamie Lee Curtis story is undetermined

@pdworkin don’t make me post videos showing you are wrong.

I don’t give a fuck what you post. Go look up Mullerian and Wolfian tissue, and see how genitalia are formed in utero.

That’s Wolffian, not Wolfian.
Are you saying that hermaphrodites don’t have both a vagina and a penis?
Really, there are videos…

There are videos of alien abductions. It seems to me there are two possibilities; either you are being disingenuous, in which case you have an agenda, or you are a moron, in which case it isn’t your fault and I will cease the argument.

So you rule out the possiblity of your being wrong? I think I found the problem.

i think of intersex as someone who chooses to become the opposite sex, or at least appear that way.

hermies are people who were born that way, regardless of choice.

@eponymoushipster: Well, then you think of it wrong. Intersex conditions are physical anomalies. There isn’t any sort of choice or feeling involved in reaching the diagnosis.

@Epo

That is the total opposite of how most groups and people dealing with these issues have chosen to term it.

Someone who chooses sex reassignment surgery or living full time as the sex opposite to the one which they had from birth are transgender.

Those who were born with either physical or hormonal issues causing ambiguity are known as intersex. This is not a choice.

Note that being trans is also not a choice. Transitioning or living as the opposite sex is, but the underlying feeling is not. That just happens.

@McB

Yeah, you are correct about the underlying impetus which is why I purposely said that the surgery (or not) is the choice rather than the underlying and often overwhelming feelings propelling that.

Human sexuality is a really complex issue which does not lend itself to generalizations.

No kid in their right mind would “choose” the confusion and pain associated with being trans.

Did you happen to see the program which Barbara Walters did on this issue a couple of years ago? She interviewed several young children and their families on how they are handling coping with this. It was pretty eye opening listening to some of these young children describing their feelings and experiences.

@Buttonstc: I had a feeling you got it, and that was why you worded it the way you did. I just added the whispered note for other people. :)

I did see that Barbara Walters special. It gave me a really big “DUH!” moment when she was talking to the one kid who really liked mermaids because of the two-things-in-one aspect of them. Made me realize why I’ve always been so drawn to werewolves, griffins, butterflies, &c.

Was that the really young one ( I think the name was Jaz or something) with the pink bedroom set?

I so applauded all of those parents who, in spite of their confusion, chose not to squelch the kids or be punitive about it.

I also give props to Barbara for her sensitivity to the kids and for even being willing to tackle this at all. Such a welcome change from all the airkissing phony celebrity crap which is her usual stock in trade :)

Anyone here who’s making purportedly authoritative announcements without at least being familiar (perhaps from other sources) with the material at these two links
[ http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/marriage.html and “Wikipedia: intersex conditions” ]
is making a big mistake.

@LexWordsmith
The tangled web continues..