What is the difference between "corporal punishment" and "spanking"?

“corporal punishment” = done by others.

“spanking” = done by parents

To me they are both one and the same. And I know that most people now seem to be against it, especially people of my age (early twenties). I also know that i would never use it. However I also know that my father used it on me and that I am a better person because of it.

Meh.

Agreed, I thought it pretty much meant the same thing

The last question I saw about corporal punishment stated for parents or for schools. Everyone I saw at that time had said it isn’t acceptable for parents or for schools to use it on children. The last one I saw about spanking the majority it seemed said it was ok

I’ve always considered them to be synonymous. Spanking is just more colloquial.

Then why do people say corporal punishment is wrong but spanking is ok? If they are both the same thing that is?

Spanking is one method of corporal punishment. Whipping, slapping, paddling, etc. are other examples.

@justme1 People say that because they want to tone it down. But they can’t. Spanking is corporal punishment and more importantly, spanking is hitting.

@justme1 It’s all in the phrasing.

To paraphrase a “South Park” episode, eating a piece of veal sounds a lot more appealing than eating a piece of a tortured baby cow.

Maybe some feel that an open hand on the bottom is better than using a paddle, so they have to specify instead of just saying corporal punishment.

But either way, I still wouldn’t do it.

@phobia, that is kind of what I thought. The thing is that even on questions phrased with corporal punishment I see people say it bugs them when they see someone grab the kids arm and giv them a swat, that sounds like it is with the hand which means the same thing as spanking.

Spanking is a form of corporal punishment. If you are talking literal definitions.

Corporal punishment is serious business.
Spanking is sexy foreplay.

@johnpowell Spanking isn’t always done by parents. I’ve been spanked and it wasn’t by my relatives… ;)

@ItalianPrincess1217 Haha. It took me a little while, but I get it.

“Corporal” has a negative connotation. What it actually means is “of the human body; bodily; physical:” So, corporal punishment is simply physical punishment. It doesn’t mean torture, abuse or excessive force.

The only difference between corporal punishment and spanking is that corporal punishment can take many more forms than spanking – it could be anything from a tap on the mouth to a kid who keeps sticking out their tongue and spitting at people to twisting their arm behind their back.

@mrentropy I’m all for that kind of spanking

@ModernEpicurean However I also know that my father used it on me and that I am a better person because of it.
I am curious to know why you consider yourself a better person because of it, what do you think you would be like now without having been disciplined in this way by your father? As I said, I am curious.

To my way of thinking, spanking is a form of corporal punishment. I completely agree with @DominicX spanking is hitting

one costs $50 bucks

oops, I now see that ”spanking is a form of corporal punishment” is also @RedPowerLady way of thinking

@Adagio I can see why you would be curious, and to be perfectly honest I would have to say that I don’t understand fully how I would say that I know that I am a better person due to it.

But I feel as though, when my father reached this extreme form of punishment, I had crossed a line that was by that point so far behind me that I could barely see it any more. This punishment would yank me so far back and jolt me into realising that I had done something that was very wrong in his eyes.

I know it must sound odd. It does even to me. I was bought up in a very strict household and this was all enforced by my father, essentially using the same methods that his father had on him.

@ModernEpicurian You had all that realization as a child? Seems a bit beyond a child’s reasoning ability. Do you think that perhaps in retrospect you look at it this way? A way of coping with living in a strict household by asserting that it is love and needed.

@ModernEpicurean Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Your choice of language (extreme, yank, jolt, enforced ) might be interpreted in ways other than you have chosen to explain your father’s behaviour, but perhaps that’s just me putting my own spin on the matter.

I believe both terms are interchangeable, but many parents prefer to use the word ‘spanking’ or a ‘swat’ on the bottom because it sounds nicer than hitting. They get that it’s wrong, but think if they call it something else, it is somehow OK.

@YARNLADY Yep that is correct. They won’t say they hit their kids because that sounds wrong

I don’t care what any liberal extremists say… spanking is not abuse if it is done correctly.. by correctly I mean it isn’t so hard that it causes bruises or frightens the kid every time you’re around.. it also means it’s not a baby… children that are too young to understand such a punishment should not be spanked.. and it means it’s on the kids butt… a padded area where it isn’t going to cause any damage..

Equating spanking to hitting is simply incorrect.

That said, every kid, just as every adult, is different. Punishments should be catered to what works for each child. For some, a timeout will work.. for others.. a spanking, etc.

Such punishment is the job of the parents .. and if done correctly will prevent the need for corporal punishment anyway

I wouldn’t really call it child abuse, but I still don’t agree with it. I think there are plenty of better ways to discipline a child without having to resort to something physical.

@NaturalMineralWater I do not call spanking abuse, but hitting a child is simply the wrong way to teach them responsible behavior.

@YARNLADY And again.. I reiterate… spanking <> hitting. Distinctly different! As I said, too, it depends on the kid. Spanking is effective for 2 of my 3 children and they aren’t stupid… they don’t run around at school hitting other kids because they confused a spanking with hitting. I think kids are less behaved these days because parents are afraid to be parents.

If your kid repeatedly plays in the street… timeout may just not cut it. Tough love is an art widely forgotten.. and it’s evident in today’s youth if you ask me…

I don’t understand why it’s ok to hit your own kids but not other people’s kids.

Spanking is using an open hand without excessive force to hit a child on the rear end. “Without excessive force” means that it would not lead to bruising. That is not the legal terminology, but its the legal definition. :)

Any other hitting is something else entirely. All are corporal punishment, the difference is that the one is not considered abusive as long as it is done in a manner that does not injure the child.

@NaturalMineralWater

Hitting and spanking are not different. Spanking is a form of hitting. You just don’t want to call it that because it makes it sound more violent. If you’re confident in your opinion about it, you should be willing to call it what it is and spanking is hitting. Beating is different, slapping is different, punching is different, but spanking is a form of hitting.

I and my siblings were all raised without any corporal punishment of any kind.

@Ivan

It’s not okay to hit anyone except your kids. You can’t hit your friends, your spouse, your siblings, your parents, but you can hit your small children. And in my opinion, that’s fucked up.

@ModernEpicurian I understand what you mean and I do think a child can realize the things you said. Maybe not in those terms at that time, but the understanding is there.

I was rarely spanked. When I was, I knew that what I had done was incredibly wrong and way over the line. I remember two distinct spankings – one my my daddy and one by my grandpa. I was under 5 both times and you can believe they made an impression. Not an impression of fear, but of being ashamed of my behavior – which they took the time to explain. It wasn’t like they grabbed me and started whaling away. I knew they loved me and it had to be bad for them to put me over their knee.

And, honestly, if my daughter gets scared because I spank her after she runs out into the road… then good! I want her to be. I want her to be scared of that situation. She knows well enough that I love her and is not afraid of me.

@DominicX Thank God you aren’t the one raising my kids. XD Look, we disagree.. it happens.. You raise your kids as you see fit as will I. I just happen to think you’re wrong is all.

If you think spanking is the same as hitting than you simply don’t know what spanking is.

@NaturalMineralWater

Actually, I do know what it is. Look up the words in the dictionary. You’re clearly just trying to “soften” spanking because hitting is a powerful negative word and is something that people do when they’re angry, so you want to differentiate from “spanking”, which is, for you, an effective behavioral correctional tool. Trust me, I’m a linguistics major. This is an issue of word choice.

@DominicX There is a difference in the legal definition of spanking and in hitting. Hitting is done in such a way as to cause, or potentially cause, injury. Insisting that they’re both the same is rather fucked up.

Most people who support spanking think it should be done rarely. I can see myself spanking my child for doing something dangerous that they were specifically told not to do when they’re old enough to know better but not for every little thing.

As you do not have children and have not worked with young children, as well as not having read the research, your opinion on this matter is somewhat uninformed.

@Ivan Disciplining my children is up to me, not anyone else. How it is done is my decision. How other people do it with their children is their business – I would not step in except in cases of physical or verbal abuse.

@DominicX It is not my job in life to discipline my friends, spouse, siblings or parents or teach them right from wrong.

@avvooooooo Thanks, I was about to say that.. XD

@avvooooooo

Can you provide a link to the legal definition of the word “hitting”?

Well I can see where this is going.. another shootout amongst those with different opinions. XD In the definition of “spanking” .. it mentions the word buttox yes? If you get in a fight do you spank someone right in the face? Ummm what? That doesn’t even make sense genius. XD

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. Do you know the square-rectangle analogy? All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. In this case, spanking is the square, hitting is the rectangle. Spanking is a form of hitting, but not all hitting is spanking.

@DominicX Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so now there is a difference…. (eye roll).

@DominicX I’m searching for the legal definition now. As I have been in many Child Development classes, have read the research, have read the controversy and had debates on the matter, have taught parenting classes, and a number of other things including working with small children, that is the definition that is used to differentiate spanking, as a parenting practice, from hitting. Here is a rather biased compilation of abuse laws that you can look over in the meantime.

@NaturalMineralWater

Uh…that’s what I’ve been saying all along. I said “spanking is a form of hitting”. I’ve never said anything different than that. Read what I write instead of just filtering out what you don’t want to hear.

@DominicX You’re right. I should filter out more of what you are saying. xD Sorry.. couldn’t resist. My parents didn’t spank me enough so I turned out rather horrid. AGAIN! Just joking.. I’m sorry man.. .. woman? ... just in a good mood tonight. Pleasure chatting with you .. even if we disagree.

@avvooooooo

Do you know if any laws allow slapping (on the face)? I was reading California’s and it didn’t mention that in there.

@DominicX If it leaves a mark, its illegal. That would be a lingering redness, bruise, or anything else. A temporary mark that fades quickly doesn’t count. I can smack my arm right now and have a red mark that fades within a few minutes, I would not be abusing myself if I did so. Here is wiki on spanking. The first source mentioned, among many good ones, is a JSTOR research article on spanking that I have been required to read at some point.

Other definitions:
Oxford English Dictionary: “Spank: To slap or smack (a person, esp. a child) with the open hand.”
Collins English Dictionary: “Spank: To slap or smack with the open hand, esp. on the buttocks.”

I’m trying to remember where exactly the law is that I’m recalling which gives me the layman’s definition that differetiates spanking from abuse. Its probably written down somewhere in that big file cabinet with my class notes in it.

@DominicX

That’s interesting about “marks” and illegality. The example of slapping I was thinking of came from Nevada and I was looking at Nevada’s law here:

“Excessive corporal punishment may cause physical or mental injuries which constitute abuse. Sec. 432B.150.[Ci.] “Injury” to a child occurs when a parent/guardian/custodian inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon a child physical, mental, or emotional injuries sustained as a result of excessive corporal punishment. Sec. 128.013.[Ci.]”

I find it interesting that Nevada’s law mentions “mental injuries” and “emotional injuries”. I’m curious as to how they measure this kind of thing.

Here is another state-by-state.

Arkansas state law is the most comprehensive, I believe. It states:

Abuse does not include physical discipline of a child if reasonable and moderate and inflicted by a parent or guardian for restraining or correcting a child. Listed as not reasonable or moderate for correcting or restraining:—Throwing, kicking, burning, biting, cutting, striking with a closed fist, shaking a child under 3, striking or other actions which result in any non-accidental injury to a child less than 18 months, interfering with a child’s breathing, threatening a child with a deadly weapon, striking a child on the face, or any other act that is likely to cause bodily harm greater than transient pain or minor temporary marks. [Statute says this is an illustrative and not exclusive list]. Age, size, condition of the child, and the location of the injury and frequency or recurrence of injuries shall be considered in determining “reasonable” or “moderate.”
§ 9–27-303(B). [Civil Code]

The C.S. Mott Children’s Hospital’s safety rules on spanking are right on the money, IMO. Their stance is pretty much “we prefer that you don’t do it, but if you are going to do it then here are some guidelines.”

@DominicX Mental and emotional injuries would be assessed by people like school counselors and other mental health workers or CPS workers who have had training in determining whether there’s a possibility of abuse and endangerment.. An example of an indicator of a mentally or emotionally injured child is one that cringes and cowers when a voice is raised or a loud noise occurs because they associate that with pain that will shortly occur (that would be mental harm from physical abuse Sorry, getting sleepy.). This is one example that comes to mind, but there are others. Signs of abuse are varied, but mental and emotional abuse would be noticed by teachers, caretakers or relatives and would then be assessed by the above folks.

The “leaving a mark” deal has to do with documentation of physical abuse.

@Supacase Thanks for posting that. Something like that occurred to me early on reading this before I got bogged down in legalities. Yay @Supacase!

@avvooooooo

That’s kind of what I figured. Makes sense to me. By the way, I’m considering going into law…

@Supacase

“Corporal punishment by school staff is illegal in all countries except the United States and South Africa.” Is that really true? I find that fascinating.

“Currently most European countries, Israel, Japan and many others prohibit physical punishment of children by law.” Oh, Europe. Those crazy Europeans done it again. I’m curious as to how their laws work out for them. I just love Europe. I plan to study abroad there and may even end up moving there. I wish I could speak more than just English, though…

I’m going to start calling electrocution “snufflebunnying”. How dare you tell me whether I can snufflebunny my own children!

@Ivan That’d leave a mark.

Could we do a poll to see how many of the people against spanking are actual parents and vice versa?
Just curious to see if those against spanking are not parents while those for spanking are actual parents. Wonder if there is a correlation?

@seeing_red Not a parent yet, a large part of one of my degrees was Child and Family Development. Read the research, done the papers on it, learned the law and how to recognize it, dealt with it in parenting class… and so on. I’ve also worked with young children. I’m for spanking in the legal manner and rarely by parents.

@seeing_red

Yes, not having children makes your opinion irrelevant.

@seeing_red

This is part of the reason I consider asking my parents to come on here. They’re definitely anti-corporal punishment (even though they were both spanked as kids and in the case of my dad, whipped with a belt) and they’re both over 50 and raised 4 children without corporal punishment. It’s actually something I haven’t talked to them about in a while.

@Ivan Not irrelevant, but less weighty.

@Ivan Once again you make an assumption. My comment does not contain those words nor did I mean to imply it. I am very curious to know if there is a correlation. Why do you feel the need to be so rude to me?

@DominicX Very interesting. When you did talk about it, did they provide reasons for why they were against, like was part of it because of your father being whipped with a belt?

@seeing_red

I haven’t been mean to anyone.

@Ivan It was on another question, when you assumed my comments regarding relationships meant you should dump your girlfriend. This is only our second question together and there is such hostility bleeding from your answers. Anyway, that’s all. We’re getting far away from the point here.

@seeing_red

I remember them saying that they just never felt it was necessary, that there were always alternatives to causing physical pain in your children. I think it was mainly a desire not to do that. My mom told me that she thought corporal punishment was unnecessary from the time she was a teen and carried it over into her parenting. She said she didn’t think physical punishment and violence were ever the right solutions in that case. My parents definitely learned from their parents, though; my mom told me that her parents forced her to eat food she didn’t like and that was one things she really hated and she never did that to me or my siblings. So I’m not sure if my dad’s experience had anything to do with it, but my dad is just a calm completely non-violent person in general.

My boyfriend was also not spanked as a kid. Another friend of mine told me that when she was little, her parents tried out spanking a few times, but all it did was make things worse and they vowed never to do it again and they never did. She’s not an unruly delinquent. In the case of my parents though, they never even tried, it was just never done.

Remember I never said anything about outlawing spanking, I just said that I think it’s a form of hitting and that good parenting is completely possible without it and not every kid who isn’t spanked turns out to be a delinquent.

I agree with @DominicX Spanking is hitting. I don’t only with it was illegal, I wish it didn’t even have to be illegal to not be done. I wish peopllle could just realize that it just isn’t necessary ever and that it is wrong.

@DominicX Thank you for that.

I also wonder if there could be any correlation with regions as well… You have all sparked my curiosity; this may warrant further research.

They’re pretty much the same thing, but corporal punishment can mean a lot of things, whereas spanking is specifically something applied to your rear with great force. Therefore, I think it is justified to choose spanking over corporal punishment.
(However, I think it would be best if we didn’t hit each other at all?)

@NaturalMineralWater “That said, every kid, just as every adult, is different. Punishments should be catered to what works for each child. For some, a timeout will work.. for others.. a spanking, etc.

Such punishment is the job of the parents .. and if done correctly will prevent the need for corporal punishment anyway”

So that is basicly saying that parents who hit their children haven’t punished their children correctly in other ways, because if it is done correctly then there won’t be a need for it (which there isn’t ever a need for it anyway) , but is that what that is saying?

@justme1 Incorrect and false assumption. No, what I’m saying is that kids who are disciplined properly (to include spanking if it is necessary) will not need such punishment after a time because they have, in fact, become disciplined. There are always hiccups.. but it never ceases to amaze me how afraid parents are to give their kid a smack on the butt… really? You think that is abusing them? I think it’s abuse not to when the situation warrants it.

How would you punish this kid ?

Would you ground him? Give him timeout? Give him Ritalin?

@NaturalMineralWater Like this.

@RedPowerLady I was far from your average child. My reasoning was more than advanced enough to make those connections :-)

@Adagio I hadn’t noticed that. The wording used was to more demonstrate the speed with which the meaning of his actions would hit home as opposed to the ‘violence’

Not hitting children is now child abuse.

@NaturalMineralWater I watched that video, I wouldn’t hit him. I would grab him up and we would go straight home, but I woule NEVER hit my child no matter what.

@Ivan Exactly my thought, how is not hitting children now child abuse ?

People who would spank that kid would be ones who have no control over their reactions, that is my thought

@justme1 Spanking is a somewhat widely accepted parenting practice. Plenty of people who have control over their reactions spank their children.

People who have children or have worked with children tend to know this.

@avvooooooo on one of the polls on a talk show, it was like 54% said it is not ok to spank your children, please dont tell me I don’t know because I don’t have children. My husband has raised kids before and did it without hitting them, we just both feel it is neverr necessary, for anything or any reason

Also my uncle raised 2 kids, still close with them, they are good people. He told me he never ever spanked them even once

@justme1 Every person you find will disagree on parenting practices. Just because you don’t agree with someone, it is not your place to tell them that they shouldn’t be doing it. There are other methods that people can and do use. Many use spanking as a last resort. Its not for you to judge others on how they raise their children and to tell them that they should do something else since spanking isn’t right. An unscientific poll on a talk show is not a reliable source for information on what people think about anything.

The reason why you come off as not knowing anything is that you won’t listen to other people and possibly learn from them once you’ve made up your mind. Your ideas about parenting on your other account betray a lack of knowledge and common sense, as you were told there. You don’t know much about child development or parenting, but base your ideas off of what you think instead of what makes sense. Learning is good. It helps you not only sound like you know what you’re talking about, but actually know what you’re talking about.

I do listen, and there are somethings that it doesn’t matter what is said I wont change. Like this subject, you are right, it isn’t my place to judge most parenting practices, but until the day I die I will say no parent should ever hit kids. Some people’s parenting practices include hitting a kid with a belt, try hitting a kid with a belt infront of me or my husband and see what happens, not only would we step in, he would definitely turn you into the police after filming a shot of it. Same thing I would do, I was just responding to your comment it is widely accepted, I don’t think it is as widely accepted as what it used to be. My hope is that it will be not tolerated at all, inflicting pain to show your love is kind of ridicilous. A lot of parenting practices seem kind of crazy, but most I just let be, this one is not tolerated and will never be by me for any parent.

@justme1 Please read the above legal definition of spanking. We’ve already covered this, I’m not about to go over it again.

Again, your ignorance is what is ridiculous, not spanking. And you have no right, no place to tell people that they are not allowed to spank their kids in the legal manner. Its not up to you to tolerate it or not because it is none of your business. Abuse, yes. Spanking, no.

@avvooooooo The legality of it has nothing to do with if it is morally right or wrong. I didn’t say they are not allowed to legally, i said I would call the cops on someone hitting their child with a belt, which is some parent’s practice. I said I hope that someday it just won’t be tolerated. In my own opinion, if abuse is my business, then it is my business because the only difference between spanking and abuse is the severity of the abuse. Everyone has an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions…....I don’t see what I am ignorant about ?

@justme1 If you would read you would learn that spanking is hitting a child with an open hand on the rear end with a sufficiently low level of force that it does not leave a mark. Beating with a belt is not legally tolerated. You have no idea of the definition of spanking, you have no idea what constitutes abuse, so you have no idea what exactly it is that you’re objecting to. That is where ignorance comes in. There is a whole conversation above on the legality and the legal definition of spanking and abuse for you to read and you either don’t bother to do it or didn’t take in anything from it. I suggest reading and learning and then having an intelligent conversation instead of spouting off when you don’t know anything about it.

@avvooooooo

“spanking is hitting”

@Ivan

OH SHI—

Actually, I don’t think she ever denied that. That was NMW.

@avvooooooo All I have stated is my opinion of hitting a child, which you just stated the definition is hitting with an open hand that doesn’t leave a mark. Every parent has the right to raise their children how they feel is fit, and unfortunately spanking is still tolerated. I am saying that if I see a child being spanked or worse, I am going to call the cops and say I see what to me is abuse because they are hitting a smaller being than them that cannot defend themselves. In your definition spanking is hitting with an open hand that doesn’t leave a mark, that must be a physical mark. Who is to say what it does to their psyche? How would we know how they feel at the time of the spanking, the mental marks can be carried for life as I know. I was never beat, was never hit with a belt, was spanked. One time only left a hand print that went away pretty quick, but i still vividly remember it. I also remember the other times, and my thought at the time was I just don’t understand what I am doing wrong, all I knew was I was being hit for what it was. Had no clue what I did wrong, but it still leaves a bad image in my head. Why would anyone want to risk that with their children

@Ivan Spanking is hitting. It isn’t beating, it isn’t damaging, it isn’t hurting that much. Its one of the ways that people use that cause momentary pain and hopefully teach a longer term lesson.

My older cousin, at 37ish, remembers the one time my father spanked him. He was out camping with my dad and he was told not to do something because it was dangerous. He did it, was reminded, and did it again. He was spanked, just the once, and never did that think again because he remembered that it drove the adult with him to the rare expedient of spanking him. If it doesn’t happen often and for good reason when it does, its an effective parenting tool.

“it isn’t hurting that much” Isn’t hurting your child at all wrong?

He still remembers it, so how does anyone know what happened to his psyche because of it, even if it is little damage?

Oh good, lets teach them not to do dangerous things that will hurt them, if they are going to get hurt it needs to be by the ones who love them…makes so much sense

It’s now OK to hit people.

@Ivan unfortunately it alway has been, I am just a supporter of trying to get rid of that thought

@justme1 There are laws that define abuse. Again, reading is required, Again, the information is available above. Spanking, in the legally prescribed manner, is not abuse. You are abusing the children if you report a parent for simply spanking their child. Do you have any idea how scary CPS investigations are for kids? The fact that you would willingly call down the authorities on a situation that is not abuse, wasting their time and scaring and scarring the children, speaks to your complete and total disregard for others’ right to parent their children. Not to mention your disregard for the impact on the mental health of these children you’re “protecting” by calling the cops on their parents. If you see someone beating the shit out of a kid, call the police. But if they’re just being spanked, you would be the one abusing the child and the family if you called the police. If you think hurting children is wrong, you need to think before doing it yourself.

You don’t know anything about mental health. I do. You don’t know anything about child development. I do. You’re talking again, but you’re not saying anything. Again, if you knew anything, if you bothered to learn anything at all, you’d make sense when you decided to say something.

You need to read THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION ABOVE. Once you do, you will know that all of this has ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED and you can go on from there instead of going on and asking the same questions THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED ABOVE.

My cousin was not damaged because of his one spanking. But he remembered the lesson and that the spanking might have hurt in the moment, but sticking his hand on the hot stove or whatever he was stopped from doing would hurt worse and longer. It does make sense to people who actually think. No lasting damage occurred to his “psyche” or anything else.

God, just stop, you guys. No one is ever going to change their opinion on this. And who gives a shit? Everyone has a right to their opinion. This topic has been done 1,364,382 times before and it never goes anywhere.

Just saying…

Nevada law:

Excessive corporal punishment may cause physical or mental injuries which constitute abuse. § 432B.150. [Civil Code]

“Injury” to a child occurs when a parent/guardian/custodian inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon a child physical, mental, or emotional injuries sustained as a result of excessive corporal punishment. § 128.013. [Civil Code]

One more note. Filing a false report with police is a crime.

just to say my question was the difference, I looked in the search first and that was why I asked. Because people were saying corporal punishment is wrong but not spanking and it seemed weird to me.

Now about what you think I know or dont know, you have no idea what I know or knowledge I have. To suggest that just because my opinion based on what I know from my personal experiences and what I have learned through my schooling on child development.

As far as the laws who cares if it is legal or not, it is still morally wrong, and who gets to decide where it becomes abuse or not. I go with my opinion, and let CPS decide if it is abuse.

About filing false reports, the child’s safety is most important to me so I would let the judge decide if it is a false report.

@DominicX I am sorry, I know. I will defend a child’s right to not be hit though until the day that I die. just amazes me that people can sit there for hours and hours defending hitting children, at least I am defending not hitting them.

Have you guys ever heard of agreeing to disagree?

@justme1 You obviously have no idea how overloaded CPS is and how they’re not getting to children who are actually being abused, and may even end up being seriously harmed, while investigating your bogus complaint. By making a false report, you’re hurting a whole lot of people, even if you’re not charged with a crime. On my part, I wish everyone who filed a false report of child abuse was prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law because of the overloading of CPS and the potential that children who are actually being abused will end up in the hospital or dead because they weren’t gotten to in time.

For every false report you make, you are taking on yourself the pain and suffering of at least one child in the time that your false report is being investigated as much as if you were beating them yourself.

The law is the deciding factor of what is abuse and what isn’t. Your opinion is not.

I have read what you have written both on this account and your other account that you abandoned. You show no evidence of knowing anything about children and parenting, especially not in one particular thread about parenting where you said that you have knowledge because you have babysat several times, among other things. When you show evidence of knowledge, people will assume you have some.

I think it’s OK to electrocute children. You will never change my mind on this. Can’t we just agree to disagree?

Where I draw my line on abuse is that if the child is not being hit, they are not abused. If they are being hit, then they are to some extent being abused. I will call CPS if I feel need be. I have stated that both my uncle and husband raised 2 kids each without hitting them and they are fine. I do know stuff about parenting, like my husband said you could know everything to know about rock climbing, just because you have never done it doesnt mean ignorance.

@Ivan Yes but the law says that is wrong, and the law rules avvoooooooooo, not basic moral values

@justme1 Once again, read the entire conversation. I refuse to repeat myself for your benefit when the very information that you claim isn’t present is just further up the page. READ!

@avvooooooo I never once claimed the information wasn’t present, I read your information and didn’t agree with it, like the laws definition of abuse. All I said, and that I would call CPS if I feel the situation warranted it. I have also stated time and again that if I saw a kid being spanked that wasn’t (in laws eyes abuse) I wouldn’t call obviously, but that I would go and tell the parents to please stop in front of me and tell them that is wrong.

@justme1 Backtracking and denying what you said earlier does not change the fact that you said what you did.

@avvooooooo I am not denying it, i am simply stating what I am saying by everything I have said, stop trying to twist what I say and make me seem like a bad person because I want to protect children please

@justme1 @avvooooooo

http://popup.lala.com/popup/360569483827576944

in other words I am trying to give some clarification to anyone who might be willing to listen

[Mod Says:] Flame down folks. Lets keep to the topic.

Any personal or off- topic quips will be removed.

@justme1 Would you grab him up and go every single time he did that in the store? What if he did it every single time?

@whoever I’ve gotten a pretty good system down where all I have to do is quietly count to my sons.. they know that for each count they are getting a swat when we get back to the car.. there’s no screaming.. no crying.. no flopping around on the floor… only quiet counting once in a while which makes them behave.. i used to have to count to 10 or higher… now it’s rare to count to 1… discipline starts with parents being consistent.

@NaturalMineralWater Just reading what you wrote here gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I want to know what country that commercial was from…

@DominicX France, I believe.

My second guess is Belgium.

@YARNLADY Gave me the same effect.

@NaturalMineralWater To answer your question, yes that is what I would do. Take them home and give them their nap. Yes if that is what it took that is what I would do every time, take them home to stay with my husband and then go back to the store and finish. If I didn’t have a husband I would find someone for them to stay with, otherwise I would find an alternative to get my shopping done without a scene. No matter what, spanking is just never an option

@YARNLADY The feeling is mutual.

@justme1 Wow. Just wow. And the kid would continue to think his behavior wins the day. Hurrah!

@NaturalMineralWater No, if everytime my child acts like that in the store or whereever we leave and go home (if they dont stop) then they will learn that type of behavior means that they have to go home away from whereever they are that could be fun, eventually they will get the idea or not. But I won’t spank them!

it is not about whether my children will win the day, it is about whether they will win in this world

@NaturalMineralWater To make derisive comments about alternate methods of teaching children to behave is counterproductive. When you have to go so far as to insist that spanking is not the same as hitting the point is completely lost on you. To me, taking you hand and “swatting” a child is for the sole purpose of hurting him (or scaring him) to make him behave. That is hitting, no matter what innocuous name you choose to use. When hitters have to resort to using names that sound ‘nicer’ it’s because they know they are wrong.

@YARNLADY Well put, you are right

@YARNLADY “Spanking” is defined above. It is hitting, but in a clearly defined way that does no physical harm to a child. Unlike punching, slapping and other hitting.

@YARNLADY I’m not insisting .. it’s simply a fact. I’m flabbergasted that so many are arguing that 2+1 = 5 here. If you want to be ridiculous you can claim that tons of things are “hitting” ... but when you get into a fight.. you don’t slap someone.. you don’t smack someone.. you don’t spank someone… you hit them…. and when you correct a child.. you don’t hit them…. gahd.. i feel like i’m describing color to a blind man…

@NaturalMineralWater

I can’t be the only one who says: what the HELL are you talking about?

People slap and smack all the time in fights. Anyway, it’s stupid to turn this into a semantics argument. Arguing about semantics is just a way to cover up the real issue.

@NaturalMineralWater When you ‘strike’ someone with your hand, whether a ‘swat’ on the bottom, or a ‘smack’ on the face, or any other place, it is a form of hitting. To use striking them (hitting) as a training method for children is wrong. I don’t care what you call it, it is still wrong.

@YARNLADY Thank God we still live in a sem-free country where I can befriend fellow republicans and mock preposterous, liberal democrats (as long as I’m pc about it..)

XD (just joking with you guys here.. please don’t be offended….........)

Obviously spanking .. when done correctly… is not as bad as you seem to think it is.. or it would be illegal everywhere in the world… just where is it illegal?

I know someone must agree with me…

Spanking is illegal in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Latvia, Croatia, Israel, Germany, Bulgaria, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine, Hungary, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uraguay, Spain, Costa Rica, Republic of Moldanvia and Luxembourg, to name a few. The Council of Europe Committee on Social Rights has determined that court rulings in Italy (1996) prohibit all corporal punishment of children. A Supreme Court ruling prohibited corporal punishment in Nepal (2005).

The list of countries that prohibits the use of corporal punishment in the schools is much, much longer.

In my opinion, the only people who agree that hitting is OK if “done correctly” are those who do not have the foresight to imagine a world in which people behave because they choose to do so, not because they will be punished if they don’t.

@YARNLADY Sounds like you need a good spanking.

I love it when people quote Maury Povich (because his audience said so!) instead of using life experience and think that they are right.~

@NaturalMineralWater It’s so disappointing to me when an otherwise intelligent person cannot see the error of that throw-back kind of thinking. There is a better way and there is hope for a better future.

@YARNLADY Your data concerning countries against spanking isn’t very thorough. I found this to be an interesting article.

As far as your “better way” website.. it’s terribly slanted to the ridiculous left (so it’s understandable that you linked to it) and is full of subjectivity and imho flat out inaccuracy.

For one, it suggests that spanking teaches children violence… asinine… children aren’t as stupid as you would have me believe… as I already mentioned above.. my kids don’t go around hitting other kids because they get spanked at home… blurring the lines between spanking and hitting is the reason for everyone’s delusion I think…

If all you have to bring to the table is that spanking=hitting and that it is wrong (de facto) .. than please don’t bother even coming to the table.. because it’s going to be a fruitless discussion… and I really like fruit.

@NaturalMineralWater I found one comment in your quip that I actually agree with. Spanking does not teach children violence – they get that entirely on their own. It merely teaches them that violence is OK, because Mom/Dad just used it on me.

@NaturalMineralWater I’m a democrat… and I believe in spanking. :)

@avvooooooo Well good for you! You must be the only one. XD

@YARNLADY What did you think of the article? o.o

@NaturalMineralWater It was very interesting.

You don’t have to be an E-4 to spank.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. Maybe we would have less kids running around assaulting and beating people if there were taxing that ass when the offence was serious enough. I remember when I was in the 2nd or 3rd grade after recess some kid tried to cut the line or something, there was a shoving match and he and I fought. A teacher tried to break it up and I got mad that she was keeping me from punching this boy so I kicked her.. She grabbed me by the collar and my feet barely touched the ground 3 times before I ended up in the principal’s office. When I got there I knew what was up but tried to figure a way out of it and much worse how to keep it from getting home. After I pleaded my case (to no avail) I got a swat on the ass from the principal, but as bad as that might have been I was more afraid to go home. By the time I got there my mother knew all about it and lit me up like a 4th of July sparkler. As much as I did not like getting spanked I learned one very important lesson NEVER STRIKE OR SASS A TEACHER, had I just been grounded (which I was too poor to go anywhere so it would not have worked) or a “time out” I would never have gotten the seriousness if striking a teacher; but I never, ever did it again, ever.

Those who have no spine to be the parent and raise their kid metering the punishment to the offence are just waiting for the state to do it later with their kid in an orange jumpsuit.

@Hypocrisy_Central Hypocrisy, indeed – hit a child to teach the child not to hit – does not make the least bit of sense to me. All that taught you was to only hit people who are weaker than you.

@YARNLADY No it didn’t. Logic dictates if you are going to pick on anyone you will do so with those you can get away with, that thought is not hatched in only homes with spanking, if that were the case bullies would ONLY come from families where spanking was done. I have not seen that, have you? My mother loved me dearly and what that taught me that serious enough actions were going to bring about a SERIOUS ENOUGH response. To simply take away my G.I Joes for instance would have said little to how serious it was to strike a teacher (which in those day was an authority figure, I don’t know what they have been reduced to these days).