Is proper grammar an indicator for intelligence? Should educators be expected to speak correctly?

I think how picky we are about such things should be dependent upon what they are teaching. If they are teaching graduate level physics, deal with it. However, if they are teaching children how to speak, such as an elementary teacher or a middle grade English teacher, they should be able to speak more clearly.

I don’t think it demonstrates the person’s intelligence, necessarily, but it could. I think it demonstrates the person’s attention to detail. It is also a sign of that person’s experience with several things, such as reading, writing, speaking, worldly exposure, etc. I guess it depends on how she became that way. Did her parents speak that way?

If she’s working on her master’s then she must already have a bachelor’s, right? She must have done something right to get to that point. There’s still a chance someone in her education or professional path will say something to her about it. As long as she’s successful, I guess it doesn’t matter that much in the end. That is, unless she plans on teaching, instructing, or something like that. Then, she could be a bad influence.

I once read an article about a “mother tongue” gene that enables people to automatically self-correct to proper grammar by hearing proper usage. The article is probably out on ERIC. According to the article, something like 25% of the population lacks the ability to naturally discern incorrect grammatical usage from correct grammatical usage, and have to make a conscious effort to speak correctly.

In the case of a person who is making a career out of speaking to impart knowledge to others, I would liken sharing the knowledge that their poor grammar distracts from the content of what they are saying is like telling someone that they have spinach stuck between their front teeth. In the case of poor grammar and spinach, both can be corrected with awareness and effort.

I don’t think it is related to intelligence (but what is that, anyway?), so much as education.

I do not think proper grammar is an indicator of intelligence. Some people are lazy or think slang is better. I think all educators, no matter what level they’re teaching, should use proper grammar and spelling.

Teachers should have reasonably good grammar!

There is, I think, a correlation between intelligence and precision of language. What that means in relation to proper grammar really depends on your race and class. I’m from rural Tennessee and for me certain “non-grammatical” phrases (like “y’all”) are the most precise way to express myself. It isn’t because I’m dumb though.

Oh @will..I don’t mind those kinds of things…I say “y’all” and “fixin’ to” with the best of them but those aren’t misuse of the language, per se….just regional things.

It demonstrates an education, not intelligence. But an educator should certainly be educated. I did not respect my grammatically challenged teachers in high school, although that could have been my fault.

Maybe that ball gown did have sequences on it—of, like, a story or something…

I assume that here’s a correlation between intelligence and good grammar, but I don’t believe it’s necessarily a causal relationship. In cultures where educational opportunities are widely available, highly intelligent people will tend to spend more time reading and in school, and so will be exposed to a broader vocabulary and consistently standardized language. In most cases, that exposure will result in a better grasp of standard language.

Also, verbal intelligence is just one aspect of overall intelligence. There are plenty of examples of people who are extremely intelligent in some areas, but woefully lacking in others.

Teachers, though, have to be able to communicate well since they’re in the knowledge transmission business. It may be possible to get the message across with non-standard language, but the teacher is also charged with preparing the student for success in a world that values the ability to follow linguistic rules.

A person’s grammatical construct is shaped to a large degree to their childhood experiences so does not necessarily correlate to intelligence when they are young.

However, an adult who makes no effort to correct that and expects to be in a position of being an example as a teacher is without excuse.

Assuming that that 25 percent is correct, there still should have been someone along the way to point this out to the person.

Continuing poor grammar and speech habits is ridiculous the higher up one advances on the academic ladder. So someone who continues in it is either supremely arrogant or simply less intelligent. Hard to know which without knowing the person. The days of excuse making for “Ebonics” are long over (or should be, imho)

Oh, about the IQ thing. Mostly people speak like the people around them, smart or stupid. Probably, it has more to do with education level than intelligence, considering a 10 year old can speak the language they are immersed in very well typically. When I moved to the midwest, they made different “mistakes” in language, compared to the people I grew up with in the northeast. I would not say the IQ level was different among these people.

What amazes me is that we all watch the same media, how can people speak so poorly when they hear reasonably good English on tv?

Holy cow, speaking of intelligence, I just want to say that I’m so honored and fortunate to be a part of the collective!

I feel like I’m in the same room as some of the most brilliant (and funny) minds on the planet.

I know it sounds sappy, and maybe it’s egg nog talking, but I really love you all (sniff), I love being here, etc.

GROUP HUG!!

BTW, I’m not being sarcastic at all, I mean every word I said.

Yes! & Yes!

There’s the standard “Queen’s English”, but we in the US have altered that standard. There’s Canadian English, as well. Then there’s the way everyone actually speaks. Eubonics, regional variances, and common “mistakes” such as “I seen” are all legitimate and valid forms of communication, being part of a shared culture and agreed upon meaning. Those dialects reflect a person’s way of thinking. They should not be criticized for being “poor” or “stupid”, but merely different than the standard.

If the teacher’s subject is standard English, then of course, she’s not demonstrating her command of it. Even if she’s part of a curriculum where standard English is taught, she should be able to speak reasonably well. In any other case, as long as we can understand each other, let’s get over the differences and “non-standard” variances and enjoy the variety.

I wish I had the link handy, but I think everyone has already seen/heard the Delta Airlines parody, right? (speaking of Ebonics)

“At Delta, we loves us some flyin’ and it be showin’ like a muthaf@#cka!”

Let’s not get into an Ebonics debate pleeeeeasssse.

agreed!

@simpleD I am fine with people speaking ebonics and other colloquialisms in their homes and communities, but NOT in schools and places of businesses. In school and business the common language should be spoken. We can have both. My husband speaks Spanish with his family at home and English at work. I think what is important is do these people with poor grammar even know they are wrong? We all take liberties when speaking, especially in a casual setting, using slang and sometimes poor grammar, but when it comes down to it can we put together a proper sentence? Or, have we been around bad English so long, never having been corrected, that we think it is correct?

Nope. Nah.

My opinion:

I am intelligent, educated, highly motivated and motivational. I have/do carry many responsibilities and have been around the block a few times.
I have tried and continually try to correct my dyslexia. It is very apparent in my spelling and grammar.
Thank god for spell check. You have no idea the difference it has made in my life. I wish it was available when I went to school.

Still, if I was able to have and develop proper grammar while growing up. There is no question that it would have made a significant difference as to what I have done and could have done.

It’s one indicator but not the only one by far.

yeah, you should know how to speak. especially if you wanna educate other people. it looks bad when a professor (like mine did yesterday) spells lose LOOSE and uses the wrong their/there/they’re. its just another part of being well rounded, and isn’t that what college/a shit load of gen ed classes are for?

Proper grammar should be mandatory for educators. They are the role models

Me has a BA & MA. I write good.

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

At the risk of sounding eggheaded I agree with you. ESPECIALLY if she is an educator. How can we expect this upcoming generation to take over when they aren’t being taught properly??? That is like a math teacher telling students 2+2=22.

While I do not think that good grammar is an indicator of intelligence, I do agree that educators should take pains to use their language accurately. If the teacher makes mistakes, then so will the children. Ok, in the example given in the question, the educator seems to be working with adults, who are, themselves, capable of discerning correct usage. But younger children need to be taught.
Having a teacher who does not use their language correctly would be like putting posters all round the school with spelling mistakes in them.

Is proper grammar an indicator for intelligence? Yes.

Should educators be expected to speak correctly? Expected and required.

Am I being too egghead? No.

Can grammar be overlooked in regard to intelligence and competency? No.

One of my editorial colleagues was a woman from Texas who had a bushel basket full of those expressions that some of the rest of us find so extraordinarily colorful and surprising. She occasionally entertained us by using locutions such as “might could” (which I find more endearing than otherwise) and figures of speech like “that dog don’t hunt.” But she could turn it on and off, just as I have heard my sister turn her Boston accent on and off, just as I have heard others open throttle on Ebonic speech, a Scottish accent, and raw street slang, when their perceived “normal” speech was standard educated English. When called upon to wield her editorial skills, my colleague was as competent, subtle, and precise as any of us.

The difference is not in whether the person uses any other speech. Just like ordinary family table manners and “company” manners, the difference is knowing what to do and when to do it. If you haven’t learned the standard, you are not well educated and have no business teaching others. Once you have, it is a matter of choosing what’s appropriate for the situation.

@Jeruba You said it much better then I. GA.

@stratman37 I use that all the time in my classes. Good show!

@Jeruba I can do that too with my rural “New Englanduh” accent and sayings.

Excellent point @Jeruba.

@Buttonstc Said, “However, an adult who makes no effort to correct that and expects to be in a position of being an example as a teacher is without excuse.” “Who makes no effort to correct it” is the key. If she can’t learn right from wrong, or just something “new” herself, what kind of teacher can she be?

Maybe someone could drop her an anonymous note?

@Jeruba exactly…the ability to turn it off and on is vital, IMO. However, if the person has no CLUE that their grammar is bad, they will never be able to do that. (What’s funny is that I think that reasonably educated people with bad grammar, don’t hear themselves, but they’d sure hear it if another person spoke that way….)

Proper grammar shows that the person cares more, to be sure. It indicates, too, that the person wants to communicate, and not just werd everywhere.
I feel that all forms of education can be facilitated with proper communication, so I feel that all educators should employ good grammatical habits.

Educators, yes. But I do understand what you’re saying. I’ve heard people say MADonalds and pull the “seen” card. I really hate it.
But I wouldn’t really judge someone for their sentence structure, per se. For example, learning too many languages has really messed with my English, especially when I type. I’m really self conscious about it.

I work in a noisy environment, which hinders communication. But further aggravating that is a failure on the part of about half of my co-workers to properly enunciate, and sometimes their lack of vocabulary is crippling.
I’ve pretty much given up on talking to one of the guys, since I can never understand him.

No, this isn’t grammar anymore, but it is a problem.

@Nullo I agree a big problem. Is he older? Possibly barely has a primary education? Then I have some understanding for that person.

@JLeslie He’s about 30. I don’t know anything about his educational background. He either doesn’t verbalize concepts very well, or else he mumbles through the important parts. It doesn’t help that my default setting is “a tad inattentive.”

@Nullo LOL well, that’s honest.

“I seen him” could be perhaps be excused as a dialectal difference, but “sequences” on a dress? That’s like something George W. Bush would say. I leave to others to decide what talking like GWB says about one’s intelligence.

I am a member of Mensa, but Hooked on Phonics REALLY worked for me. I read very well and my command of English is good, but I can’t spell. I think that I was better while in school, but who knows for sure?