When was marriage reduced to a mere commodity?

A few thousand years ago when marriages were arranged and dowries were de rigeur.

I don’t see the big deal really.

What makes a marriage wonderful and committed depends on the two people in it.
Period.

When has it not been?

There’s an out to marriage too. It’s called divorce. Maybe you’ve heard of it.

Marriage has always primarily been a financial/property/legitimate child-begetting arrangement. And even the idea of “legitimacy” of children (sons) was about who the money and property went to after the death of the father.

The “love” and romance we attach to marriage today in the West is of much more recent provenance. The 1600s, maybe, if not later.

When did “tending to your own business” become outdated?

i’d like to bring it back.

Marriage is a joke plenty of times.

It originated as the securing of bloodlines and wealth for important families and kingdoms. Love was never the reason, and I often notice that the most charming love stories have to do with two people breaching arranged marriages to be together.
This can often be the case today as well, in places like Saudi Arabia or India.

In more adbanced societies, today marriage is about money. Think about it.

I have to pay not to be with someone anymore? What kind of bullshit is this?

That, or morality, which means nothing to me if I love someone. My promise of love is to my lover, not God.

Marriage is a joke as in it caters to ulterior motives rather than what it’s defined concept so cornily suggests, back when we used swords to settle business as much as it is today.

But I’m a freakin’ pessimist, so dun listen to meh.

Marriage is the legal binding of two people who were already bound by their hearts. With all the problems surrounding the legal aspects these days I can see why people avoid it. When I first got married I seemed to suddenly stop being me. People would address my mail to ’ Mrs (insert husbands full name)” , now I may have taken his last name, by choice, but when did I take his first as well? Also, when we went to buy something on terms it would be, ” well we only want one name so we will take your husbands”, its like when did I suddenly not exist? Companies would suddenly start sending letters to my husband only as if I disappeared. When I got married it was supposed to join us, not make me invisible. It took a long time and a lot of fighting to get people to recognise me as an individual again. Why woudl anyone knowingly put themselves through that?

August 24th, 1964 No, but really, ya get whatcha make of it!

when tax breaks were involved

My friend of 45 years [!!!] has lived with her man for 31 years. She is one I thought would absolutely be married! They’re happy-she wears wedding rings. They are so married under Alberta law for common law!

@aprilsimnel I agree that the romance attached to marriage is a more recent developement. Women for ages had only a little bit more consideration than livestock.
Marriages were primarily for convience.
@Polly_Math I agree with your statement as well.

It depends on the value YOU place in marriage. You can’t blame anyone for the problems you’re talking about, other than the people who entered into those marriages. My marriage won’t be a commodity. It will be hard-earned, and well cherished for that fact.

The overall integrity and moral fabric of society has been in a steady decline for years now… it’s only going to get worse.

@NaturalMineralWater… since about 146AD, I think.

@Hypocrisy_Central Can you name a time when marriage really did have value aside from securing alliances between men? Think about it; women have been used as a commodity for centuries. Marriages based on love/romance are a fairly recent thing so I say that marriage is slightly more valuable than ever.

Of course, now that marriage is more about love, there are some people that want to return to “the good old days” where marriage was about inheritances and such while removing love from the equation entirely.

I think some of us grew up with, if you are in love, you get married. I think it’s just to show the world we love each other.

@symbeline Would you buy a car and just have them say “it is yours”, let you use it as you wish but don’t hand you the registration you’d go for that? What about a house? You’d spend all that cash to get a house pay the mortgage but never expect the bank to give you the deed? I can see athletes being told they were the champion but it was a waste of time giving them the trophy, Cup or metal. It would be OK just to tell them “the world seen you do it on ESBN so they all know, you don’t need any manifestation of it”.

@tinyfaery Oh…so that is why people steer clear of marriage because they figure they are not committed to that person so they need an easy out down the line. Why worry about divorce if you take the time to chose wisely and keep the line of communication open so you can always make the effort to stay together why would you ever think “I need a quit and easy way to bail”?

@Hypocrisy_Central We’re talking about love and commitment, not material possession or fame. Care to rephrase that without the analogies?

Yes, it is about love and commitment. Why not want to show the world officially “I am his. I am her’s”? Afterall, it is aomething way more important than material things.

@Hypocrisy_Central Indeed, that is the thought intent, but the reason why it prevails is something else entirely, which I find sad.

Marriage has always been a commodity. The idea of marrying for love is a very recent one.

@Hypocrisy_Central Why do you need to tell the world? Isn’t enough that you know? How is it anyone else’s business? I also know people who have their own kind of celebration where they gather family and friends and make their commitments known without legally marrying. How is their commitment any different? Considering the amount of divorce where does commitment lie anyway?

@GingerMinx I think you have a valid point and that’s why common-law is flourishing.

@GingerMinx Why is it anyone else’s business? I could say the same, if one us truly happy and proud of their relationship why would they be ashamed to have the world know about it? There are so many reasons why it would be someone else’s business but let he hit on some of the major ones, medical power of attorney. If you were to be seriously injured and you had not the foresight to have a declaration typed out and signed in your glove box, 0r wallet stating your relationship and giving your mate permission to make live and death decisions for you or if to donate your organs f you did not have it marked on your license our mate could lose that choice to the next of kin because the hospital won’t know or won’t recognize your private ceremony that you, family, and friends honor. If there is anything where there is a benefit for your spouse you more than likely will lose out because no one will know of this “common law” marriage, taxes being one of them. What about bank accounts? If you had not spelled out to your bank and such and was too injured to inform them, where would your mate be? Legally they are just someone you are boinking, no relation. You will have to spell out to everyone who your mate is to you because no license, no ring, they haven’t a clue. With a ring (yeah, yeah some just wear one as a horn dog shield) on it when my fiancée and I are married we know wherever we go if we are not by the other’s side anyone looking will know I am taken and so is she, do not come hitting on her or trying to chat me up. We make it the business of people who don’t know is personally or our private common law nuptials. They see the rings and they have more than logical certainly what is up without having to ponder.

In my opinion, there really is no point of marriage besides the title and benefits. How far has marriage gone back? I’m sure humans stayed together before the idea of marriage even came about, right? But with cultural evolution and societys idea of what we should do, marriage is just something we should do, just like getting a license or something.

If a couple really wants each other for just each other, they shouldn’t have to think or say “Ok, now we have to get married”. They should naturally flow into whatever they want to do.

@Hypocrisy_Central You said “They seem to make every excuse from making it official as if it just a piece of paper it is not what is in the heart. But it seems they lack something in the heart because they don’t want to lock it up, as if they need an out.” I was responding to your idea. Everyone has an out. If we did all kids of things the world would be a better place. For example, if we all just stayed the fuck out of other people’s choices of who and how to love, the world would be a better place.

@Symbeline You’re not a pessimist, you’re accurate and correct. It just seems pessimistic because the ‘truth hurts’.

The reason I choose not to get married has nothing to do with “wanting an easy get out”. I couldn’t imagine my life without my partner so why would I want an easy get out. The truth is, I just don’t feel the need to get married. It certainly doesn’t mean I love him any less. It’s a cliche but I really don’t need a piece of paper to prove my love for him and, as many people have already said, marriage wasn’t about love in years gone by anyway. At the moment I have no religious or financial reason to marry so I am happy to just enjoy being with him without the need for all that!

As others pointed out, marriage didn’t originate as a romantic custom. It was an economic arrangement, intended to increase or secure a family’s wealth and social status.

As for the sexual issue, that stereotype is in place because, unfortunately, it’s true sometimes. I once read a studied of married couples and intercourse in Newsweek, and married people indeed had less sex than when they were dating. But that’s not necessarily the result of marriage; it’s the result of increased responsibilities (i.e. housework, childcare, etc.). After a long day at work, most people use the bed as a place to sleep, not make love, because they are so tired!

Regarding unmarried couples who choose not to marry, I don’t feel that we can judge them unless we know the specifics of each situation. Sure, some people might be cohabitating because they’re afraid of commitment, but others sincerely believe that a formal marriage ceremony isn’t necessary. People in Gen X and Gen Y are sometimes distrustful of marriage because their parents were divorced. From that perspective, it’s easy to see why they’d be afraid of marriage, because it didn’t work out for their parents, so they fear that tying the knot would damage an otherwise happy relationship.

Forgive me if this post didn’t make much sense. It came from a sleep-deprived brain.

@faye Thank you.
@Hypocrisy_Central Where did I say they should be ashamed? Because they don’t tell the whole world that automatically means they are ashamed? As to medical, you can get power of attorney written up to cover that, but if family and friends know and honour it then they will respect the wishes. Also after a certain period of time it becomes common law and they hold almost the same rights anyway. Where I live you do not benefit in the way of taxes etc for being married. Simply open a joint bank account and that problem is solved. Again, why is it anyone else’s business? Why would I have to spell it out? I have been married almost 25 years, I do not wear a ring and I do not carry around my license to show people so how would anyone else know anyway? And why do they need to? If someone hits on me it is flattering, but I am perfectly capable of saying that I have a partner, don’t you trust yours to do the same?

@GingerMinx “Where did I say they should be ashamed?” Misunderstanding, I never meant to say YOU were ashamed. I was speaking in general, usually when someone does something notable or great they don’t go out of their way to keep their name off of it. “Because they don’t tell the whole world that automatically means they are ashamed?” From what I seen very few people claim stuff that is not flattering, so to avoid something or having information out makes me wonder why they don’t care for others to know. Doesn’t make them seem all that proud is what I am saying. “As to medical, you can get power of attorney written up to cover that, but if family and friends know and honour it then they will respect the wishes.” One, you have to think ahead in everything and if you forget if a family member don’t care to honor the wishes of your mate for whatever reason, then it won’t be decided by them as you might have liked. “Also after a certain period of time it becomes common law and they hold almost the same rights anyway. Where I live you do not benefit in the way of taxes etc for being married.” Here, you can live together 55 years or more, if the house was not jointly bought some relative that hardly ever came around would have more props to the house than the lifelong mate. And if the relative wants to toss them out on their butt, there is little they could do, same with any surviving children if from a previous relation. “Simply open a joint bank account and that problem is solved.” Why would you have to open a joint account? Because without the marriage you are no one, in order to have official access to the account you have to think before hand to be apart of it. “Again, why is it anyone else’s business?” It is not anyone’s business, but mostly people who should know for any pertinent business. “Why would I have to spell it out? I have been married almost 25 years, I do not wear a ring and I do not carry around my license to show people so how would anyone else know anyway? And why do they need to? If someone hits on me it is flattering, but I am perfectly capable of saying that I have a partner, don’t you trust yours to do the same?” Why keep it hid? Lesser things you own like a house but you damn sure have the deed incase you have to officially prove it is yours. And I trust and know my fiancée would set them straight, but she don’t care to have to tell all would be suitor that she is taken. They see the ring all but the brain dead should know to move on. If you ever buy another home, leave the shingle out in your yard and it listed in the MLS and see how many people believe the house had been purchased and not keep asking what the price of it is.

@Hypocrisy_Central Perhaps, like me, they are just private individuals who do not need anyone else’s approval. Medical, as I said, power of attorney takes care of that. House, you simply make sure you buy it jointly, as you would if married anyway, and then leave it to each other in wills, which all married couples should make anyway. I am married and we have a joint account, something we had to specifically think about. But again, a simple will takes care of that. It is not about keepign anything hidden, I obviously don’t as I told you, but it is more a matter of it is no one else’s business. I don’t need to officially prove my husband is mine, because he isn’t, he is his own person, I do not own him. Just as single people can, married people leave as well. A marriage certificate does not guarantee they will stay. Take a look at how many married women who wear their rings get hit on, wearing it makes no difference. In fact, some guys go after married women. I do not think my house is on the same level as my partner, my partner is not my property and he can speak for himself, a house can not.

Well, after 9 marriages and 9 costly divorces I will only live with someone. The relationship I am in now and have been for 6 yrs has had no where near the problems the marriages did. People change when they get married. It just happens. Everyone gets comfortable after what appears to be the chase. The chase ends when the marriage begins and suddenly when you were able to find all the time in the world for each other, you cant manage to find 5 minutes for each other anymore. I would say it was more a commodity when it was done to save fame and fortune by the rich and famous. I wonder if God married Adam and Eve? Now that would be a good question.