Is there a war on christmas?

The irony is that the Christmas holiday is not Christian at all. It was “adopted” by Christians, but most of the Christmas symbols are based on Pagan winter celebrations. Most Christians don’t know this.

No. That’s just dumb. It’s a contrived cause to raise ire and unite folks who ought to sequester themselves less, not more. In my opinion.

I would also like to add, maybe I just should’ve asked another question….But i think that all this secularism is happening for a reason. In a nutshell, a lot of people now simply don’t need religion.

It’s a bit silly, especially considering the following list:
– Gift giving
– Yule logs
– Christmas Trees
– Eating Gingerbread Men
– Holly & Ivy
– Mistletoe

All of these are things that pre-date the Christian celebration of Christmas, and were brought into the perview of Christianity as the religion converted folks who practiced these traditions.

So, to some extent, the Christians did it to themselves, they have little to complain about now =)

That’s ridiculous. The only thing that’s changing is we’re being more inclusive to other religions. Aren’t Christians supposed to be all about love thy neighbor?

<- sticks to tradition . Others can celebrate what they want, but I look forward to overeating, giftgiving and being happy that the days will start getting longer again

There is almost always a war on Christmas…although they try to have cease-fires on Christmas Day itself.

@Kelly_Obrien Ha! Yeah that only seems civil lol. Like Jesus is saying “Damn guys….just don’t fight on my birthday…” LOL!

A note on semantics:
It would make me very happy if people would stop calling every endeavour to eliminate anything a war.
A war is an armed conflict between nations, or social groups in a civil war. You can’t wage war on an abstract concept. There cannot exist a war on Christmas, a war on poverty, a war on hunger, or a war on whatever else you don’t like. That’s not a war. It’s a campaign, an enterprise, a project.
This is an idiom invented by aggressive people who have never been in a real war themselves.

Other than that, yes, this “issue” is just supremacist Christians whining about how they stole Christmas first.

No Blackeberrry there is no war on Christmas, its just something the Christians are making up because they have to abide by the laws of the land the USA is a secular country and they dont like it. If they want to put Christian icons on public property that we all pay for with our taxes then they realize all people can put their icon on same public property

yes there is and I am the general – I got my kids making weapons.

@Fyrius So true. I do get tired of the whole war thing. LOL

I get tired of the whole, thing about lets get rid of Christ in Christmas and how it was a pagan holiday first, and how he wasn’t even born in December and so forth, Yada, Yada, Yada. If its just a holiday for you than enjoy or don’t enjoy. But I don’t see how leaving the word Christmas exist harms any non believers or believers of other faiths. Ask most kids all they say it is, is a great winter vacation with gifts and Santa. As for adults, If you don’t like vacations, gifts or santa, than no one is forcing you. Go to work, don’t give gifts, don’t decorate, be if you want to. I’m not looking for you.

No, there is no war, and I’m sick and tired of hearing about it from people who feel otherwise. I mean no offense to anyone who thinks so, but you’re really kind of delusional.

being a witch… i myself , resent the fact the traditional PAGAN holidays are celebrated as something else .. and the lie that they are telling everyone that it is theirs . the missinformation and attempt to overshadow and abolish the pagan holiday . some may be fooled into thinking the christians included our rituals .. to make it easier to convert… but even if that were true .. it is a war tactic.
pagans were killed off ,,murdered ,, hung , burned , & had their holidays and rituals etc.. stolen .. then a reason was invented to place a holiday on the same day and call it theirs to overshadow any celebrations they did not kill off .. then they cover it up and sell the lie to you . i cant think of one christan holiday that is not pagan in origin !!
to me the greeting “merry christmas ” is a slap in the face , and accepting it would be slapping myself . it also shows that you just assume that i share your faith which is ignorant . or that you are placeing and imposing your faith on me , which is rude . ...... you may say ” i dont mind i think it’s a nice greeting ..” ...well how yould you feel if someone came up to you and said “satan praise you ”? . you would probably take offence . you must understand that many are victims of christianity such as wiccans , witches , and pagans . murder and theft of our customs may not be acceptable to some of us . and to me… hanging a “christian” christmas wreath on your door is like a hunter hanging a deer head on the wall to brag to his murdering buddies . christianity has bashed many faiths ..and continue to spread lies to discredit them ..like ” they worship the devil ” etc .. eventhough he is a “christian deity.etc…. just remember there are many victims out there… including you…for being lied to . we all may not feel the same way

Yes there is. Furthermore, it’s time to stop talking and start shooting. Santa, I’ve got you in my sights.

@The_Anonymous_Witch Point of order: Christians may have bashed many faiths. Christianity is a belief system, a faith itself, and therefore incapable of faith-bashing. No modern Christian sects teach persecution as part of their faith.

Well, maybe those whack jobs up there in Kansas City, but they aren’t Christians.

@Poser
...Westboro Baptist Church?
They’re Christians. And they’re hateful homophobic bastards, who very strongly promote persecution.

Furthermore, let me remind you of the no true Scotsman fallacy.

Edit: I see these might be the people you meant by “those whack jobs up there in Kansas City.”

Perhaps @Poser means no true Christians?

It seems that if If the Church Fathers would have held to the scriptures, they would not have mixed Pagan holidays with Christ. I have not read anywhere in the Christian Greek scriptures where Christians are suppossed to make forced conversions or kill those that don’t convert.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians%2010:20-22;2Corinthians%206:14-16;Deuteronomy%2018:10-12;%201Thess%205:21-22&version=ESV;YLT;NASB;KJV;HCSB
1Cor 10:20–22 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice(A) they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21(B) You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and© the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and(D) the table of demons. 22(E) Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy?(F) Are we stronger than he?
2Cor 6:14–16 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For(B) what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or© what fellowship has light with darkness? 15(D) What accord has Christ with Belial?[a] Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For(E) we are the temple of the living God; as God said,“I will make my dwelling among them and(G) walk among them, and(H) I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1Thess 5:21–22 but(A) test everything; hold fast what is good. 22Abstain from every form of evil

@Fyrius That is exactly the group to which I was referring. I see that according to the article you posted they are actually from Topeka, not KC. My bad.

However, the fallacy to which you refer doesn’t apply here. I wasn’t saying they weren’t true Christians because they are vile human beings (indeed, Christians aren’t exempt from being vile). They aren’t Christians because they don’t believe what Christianity requires one to believe. For instance: it isn’t our place to judge others; Christ’s sacrifice was for all mankind—it was sufficient even for the “fags,” “sodomites,” and “perverts,”; and so on. In fact, in the article to which you linked, they even claim that Baptist preachers (the very denomination to which they lay claim) “are all going to Hell.” Neither are they claimed by any known Christian denomination.

@ubersiren That is exactly what I meant. “True,” not in the “true Scotsman” sense, but “true,” as in, “Follower of the teachings of Christ,” sense. I can call myself a Navy Seal, or a HVAC repairman, or attach to myself any other title I desire. But unless I fit the qualifications of what defines a member of one of those groups, I am not one of those people.

@Poser
Hate to press this, but they do believe in Christ. They are Christians. They may lack what you like best about Christianity, but they are Christians.
It just goes to show that, as you say, some Christians are bastards. Others are wonderful people. I think there’s little point in denying this variation.

In America the President can send in the armed forces if he deems the Christmas situation requires it. However, according to the War Powers Act, he must halt military action against Christmas in 60 days and remove American forces in the following 30 days if Congress does not approve. Only Congress can declare war on Christmas. This was established so that the president might not get us into another honey hamfisted war.

So is there a war on Christmas? Not with America, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe. As we’ve seen before, if the powers that be generate enough fear and suspicion of Christmas it could very well end up the target of American military aggression, war or not.

@Fyrius I didn’t say they don’t believe in Christ. I said they don’t follow his teachings, which is the requirement for being a Christian. I believe in Buddha, that is, I believe the man existed, but I’m not a Buddhist. I believe in Mohammed, but I’m not a Muslim.

It isn’t a matter of what I like best (or what I think at all) about Christianity. It is a matter of what defines a Christian. You seem to be saying that a Christian is anyone who calls themselves a Christian. This is simply not true.

Christian science, for example, has nothing to do with science or Christianity.

There is no war. Just some sleeper cells scattered around the nation. Luckily Santa has Rudlolph and the Elves working covert missions to uncover and disable these sleeper cells before they can do any real harm.

This past summer, I woke up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. I went out to the kitchen to get a drink of water, and happened to look out the window toward the neighbor’s house. I saw a deer-like figure wearing a ski mask surrounded by smaller masked figures. They were in the process of breaking down the neighbor’s door. I heard some scattered gunfire, then saw these strange figures dragging our elderly neighbors across the driveway. They were tossed into the sled like so much baggage. The “official” story was that the couple had decided to move to a retirement home, but I know the truth.

There may be a “war” on Christmas, but Christmas is fighting back!

@MissAusten Well I guess they finally let Rudolph join one of the reindeer gangs.

@fundevogel Good one!

@Poser That’s what I thought. I do not consider the Westboro Baptist nut-jobs to be true Christians. They are followers of perverse delusions of a hateful old man. And I can say this because I’m not Christian, but I hope they burn.

@Poser ,,persecution is rampant today .. the lies ccontinue that wiccans ,, witchs , pagans worship YOUR devil . or that witch craft is “evil” etc….. wiccand get kicked of judge panals ,, lose their jobs.,,,,, and are outcast daily because of these lies . and the social programming and misinformation .. children in other countries are beeing killed today because they are deemed ””“witches ” because all these countries have is the OT .. that was left there while the christians were recruiting . it goes one today everywhere you may be so brainwashe that you dont see it . wiccans , witches , and pagans are peace loving , nature loving , nature healers and helpers .. they have nothing to do with your devil .. ....@texasescimo your ”“quotes”” you supplied are actually part of the persecution in it elf… telling you lies .. planting the seed of hate .. since you like quotes so much . take a look at these . and see the truth http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

@The_Anonymous_Witch Believe me, I appreciate your concern over my “brainwashing,” but rest assured, people are dying all over the world for their beliefs—Jews, Christians, Muslims, Pagans, Atheists…your religion doesn’t have the market cornered on suffering (or tolerance).

I never said that no Christians have ever persecuted those of differing beliefs. What I said was that persecution isn’t a part of modern Christianity: the religion. Christians are people, each with their own issues, insecurities, anger, and whatever else that causes people to treat others badly. Christians aren’t exempt from it (neither are Wiccans, btw). In other words, no Christian follows all the teachings of Christ all the time. But that is the very essence of what Christianity is—no person on this earth can live up to the standards that God requires. The very imperfection in all men is what necessitated the sacrifice of Jesus.

Now I’m starting to get preachy. That is not my intent. My point is that no Christian denomination, and no teaching of Christ supports the persecution of which you speak. That is carried out entirely by people who may or may not be Christians, failing to live up to their religion.

you say ””“no teaching of Christ supports the persecution of which you speek”””
the bible still says today to kill witches .

@The_Anonymous_Witch The link that you attached to your previous post quotes all Old Testament laws. I don’t know how much you understand about Christianity, but the Old Testament was written thousands of years before Jesus was born. It was basically all of the rules that one would have to follow in order to be pure enough to dwell with God. The Hebrews were God’s chosen people. The reason that they were given those rules was for the purpose of purification of their nation. Sin, by definition, is the separation of mankind from God. Therefore, all things that were sinful had to be removed from the nation so that God could dwell there.

For Christians, the Old Testament is God’s message of “how to be pure enough on your own,” while the New Testament tells us that it is impossible to be good enough on your own. It is impossible, for a Christian, to take the Old Testament without the New Testament. That means that we, Christians, are not called to kill witches, cast out homosexuals, or judge our fellow man in any way. That is God’s domain, and to presume to do it ourself is to presume to do what only God can do. Jesus himself said, “Let he without sin cast the first stone.”

So I stand by my statement, “No teaching of Christ supports persecution.”

@Poser Jesus didn’t seem to think the Old Testament laws were obsolete. The real problem here is that if you try to obey all of God’s commandments you couldn’t because they sometimes contradict each other. It is after all hard to turn the other cheek as you suffer not a witch to live. It might become even more complicated if it was already necessary that you pluck out your eye. The witch might take advantage of you poor peripheral vision and make a hasty getaway.

Matthew 5

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

@Poser http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

@Poser
I do believe whoever considers themselves a Christian is one.
It’s not a title one can officially earn or anything. How would you distinguish between your “true” form of Christianity and their “false” form of Christianity?

Do you believe you follow every single thing Jesus Christ has said? Do you hate your parents, would you abandon your spouse and child for Jesus, have you sold everything you own and given the money away?
And if you (rightly) take his teachings with a grain of salt, how can you continue to make the distinction?

If you believe the bible has the last word on what Jesus was like, and if you’ll forgive me for going a step further in playing devil’s advocate: Fred Phelps might be more Christ-like than any decent and tolerant Christian is. Jesus was not as compassionate and forgiving a guy as he’s made out to be. He has taken the position that those who won’t worship him deserve no mercy. He condemned entire cities to eternal torture just for not believing him.
Encouraging or even demanding persecution would not be out of character for him.

I realise this will probably hurt your feelings. I’m sorry. But it’s entirely canonical.

I need to apologize for my last post. The ESV is repudiated as one of the most accurate translations. The word should be “Nations”, not Pagans as the ESV says..
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians10:20-22;2Corinthians6:14-16;Deuteronomy18:10-12;201Thess5:21-22&version=ESV;YLT;NASB;KJV;HCSB
.
I quite often quote from different translations of the Bible as well as posting links. For some reason, the link that I posted up above added “20” before each chapter so I posted it again.

It trips me out when xtians get in a knot over some one not wanting to hear “marry christmas” I look on christmas as an xtian holiday that has nothing to do with me and in fact comes from a religion I veiw as oppressive so no supprise there I don’t want to hear “marry chrstmas” not at all. How would you like a nice happy ramadan when you check out at the grocery store? Please keep your religion to your selves thank you.