What is your opinion on the two documentaries named zeitgeist?
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Sebulba (
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December 18th, 2009
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Now there are two of them?
A friend of mine sent me a link to one and urged me urgently to watch it.
That was months ago and I still haven’t been able to scrape up the time or the interest.
Does that make me a bad person. ?
The religion part was very accurate. Although, I really don’t want to believe in 9/11 being an inside job, that would totally make me lose all respect for my country and humanity lol. And I don’t know enough about the fed to have an opinion on that, but it does make sense.
I thought some bits were fascinating, some others loony, and even others I’m not sure so I can a guarded but open mind in regards to them.
They raise many interesting questions not least of all is the establishment of commercial code to dupe the population into forced taxation.
@Blackberry
So you don’t believe Jesus was a real person? That flies in the face of historical accuracy.
Scared the hell out of me the first time I watched them.
There are countless sources..and the bible is enough of an historical source for many figures of the period- Pilate. Herod and on and on. These are all factually documented people who walked the earth.
It doesn’t warrant a response. It’s a foregone conclusion and revisionists like these are the same who would deny the Holocaust-Sensationalists.
Jimmy Stewart, Marlon Brando and Marlene Dietrich lived too and they were even less stellar.
It is definitely not the same.
We have eyewitnesses, we have the places where it happened, we have pictures and films depicting the countless corpses and mass graves, we have the records of the Nazis and we have the official admission from the perpetrators themselves.
We have none of these in the case of Jesus, and that is a fact.
@ragingloli
Was George Washington alive?
Do you need any document to prove that?
Fuck George Washington. What makes you believe that JESUS was alive? Where are the “countless sources” as you say beyond bilbe that record Jesus life? Give us a few i say
Ever hear of Josephus, a Jewish historian? He wrote of both Jesus and John the Baptist.
@Buttonstc
As a matter of fact, Josephus is adressed in the link I posted. The general accepted position among scholars is that the passages referring to Jesus are not authentic, e.g. fabrications.
@SeventhSense Like some of the other answers said, there is no empirical evidence. But I’m not such a vehement atheist as to deny the existence of Jesus. I can tell you he was not a superhero that walked on water, if he did exist, he was just a very intelligent, though crazy scholar of sorts.
What Josephus wrote about Jesus was very vague and doesn’t make it anymore accurate just because it’s Josephus. the bible had a lot of crap in it that could be ‘evidence’, but you saw how that turned out.
@ragingloli
This doesn’t even warrant discussion. I don’t need to dig through tomes to show that there was a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was sentenced to die at the hands of Pilate by crucifixion who lived between c. 4 BC/BCE – c. 30 AD/CE and was known to his followers as the KING OF THE JEWS. Of course the Romans were busy squelching all information that would challenge the rule of the Emperor.
@Blackberry
The historical political figures in the Bible are recognized as being accurate
@SeventhSense Yeah, it’s irrelevent. It doesn’t matter anyways, as long as we all agree he wasn’t the son of god and was a human being lol.
Unfortunately i’m on the iPhone and cannot post links so I’ll have to wait until I’m on computer.
But it just isn’t as cut and dried as you project. There are multiple authorities who accept Josephus’ references. One does show some evidence of a little “doctoring” by subsequent Christian scribes (thanks RCC~) but there is little doubt that the entirety of the reference is authentic. This was done by comparing the writing style of the entirety of Josephus’ work. And many of these authorities are Jewish so have no vested interest in maintaining Christian tenets.
The site which you referenced has an obvious anti-bias, so their opinion on this isn’t surprising. But at this point in time there are far more authorities who accept Josephus’ references as valid than those who don’t so it isn’t a foregone conclusion as you imply.
But, in the end, we have a basic difference of opinion on the matter and I doubt that either of us will succeed in convincing the other.
Everybody has to make up their own mind about the historicity of Jesus.
But, when on computer, I will try to post a few links to back up my point about Josephus.
@Blackberry
That of course can only be answered through one’s belief or non belief.
@SeventhSense Ahhh yes….the whole faith thing. The thing that causes people to believe that a woman can become pregnant without sperm, and having people believe that a primitive man broke the laws of physics. Let’s agree to disagree :)
Everyone who is trying to discuss the subject with @SeventhSense: If every time you ask for proof, and the answer is “it doesn’t warrant proof” or “it doesn’t warrant explanation”, that means there IS no proof or explanation. So there is no point in trying to debate until SeventhSense digs some magical proof out of his ass.
Anyway, I only saw the first Zeitgeist. The religious part was old news… Religulous is a much better religious-debunking movie to me, because it shows the same facts and more, plus it’s presented in a comical manner.
As far a 9/11, I’ve always felt like conspiracy theorists were a bunch of loonies… but the movie did present some pretty solid evidence that it was an inside job.
@SeventhSense You are doing an excellent job at proving Poe’s Law‘s_Law
If you don’t feel like clicking the link, the basic statement is “Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing.”
@RocketSquid
Thank you. I aim to please and I know when the onus is on someone else to prove their inflammatory theories. I’m not on the witness stand.
LotR porn for conspiracy theory geeks.
As far as Zeitgeist Addendum goes, I think it’s kinda silly that the premise they show would have them shot by the CIA or something if it actually was.
Not saying it’s all bullshit, just statistics with style for the sake of shock value?
Overall, i think that addendum covers a what the root of our problems really are. It
theories a possible hi-tech society where machines will do all of our labour which will produce an abundance of the most necessary things we need to survive. It isn’t very specific, but it is indeed an alarming fact that more and more people are getting unenployed thanks to machines.
@symbeline The CIA part is the most true part about the whole film. The incidents covered is not something new and that the CIA meddles with other countries affairs is pretty well known AND documented.
These movies are excellent. And they’re a great addition to the usual movies of the type which are geared to traditional conservatives (the movies made by Alex Jones). This movie wasn’t aimed for them at all, and because of that, showed a side of religion and government that has never really been exposed before in such a clean way.
And as for 9/11 being an inside job… there’s no concrete way (yet) of knowing if it was or wasn’t… but this movie presents clear proof that U.S. Government has engaged in terrorism before (false flag operations), and that should really wipe away the preconception of Americans that their government just “couldn’t be that evil”, which seems to be the main argument people have in their minds against any sort of conspiracy.
I have both Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist addendum on downloads…compelling.
I like silly examples that they use in some instances in one of the videos. Like the Sun was a natural forerunner of the Son of God. As if the word for “sun” was the same as a male child “son” in ancient languages that it is in English. A perfect example of a modern retelling of history.
It made me think of religion in a whole different way and society. I don’t believe EVERYTHING I hear from the documentary but of course I’m going to think about it. I felt like the movie was pushing towards atheism, it didn’t make me atheist but it did make me no longer Catholic.
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