What can teach parents that no one wants to hear their screaming sprogs?

First off, I’m a Libertarian, glad to know I’m selfish.

Anyway, parents work so hard. They have to take care of their child, especially a small one, constantly. Parents deserve to go out and eat when they want to. It’s not selfish, they just need to get out of the house, or maybe they just want to do something. You can’t help it if a baby cries, you can’t stop the baby, it’s no ones fault.

I think you are selfish for judging parents because their baby is crying. If you don’t like it, leave.

We already know. People like you aren’t very subtle. It annoys us, too, probably more so than it does you. There is only so much you can do – babies just don’t listen to reason. Selfish sprogs.

Of course there is a point where you remove yourself and your child, but not every time they make a sound. Most parents are pretty aware of the disturbance their child is causing and respond appropriately. There are some who don’t, but they are the exception. Don’t lump us all together.

BTW, being a mom is the least selfish thing I have ever done. Do you have any idea how much of yourself you give to your children? It is exhausting, appreciation is rare (especially in the early years because they don’t understand), your ability to do spur of the moment things or even planned things is severely limited compared to being childless, they cost a lot of money and I have had to do without a lot of things for myself. I would not trade it for anything.—

Perhaps the women members of MADD who aren’t sexy enough to appear on the calendar. All those unnecessary kids; it is a bore.

So what, are they supposed to stay cooped up in their homes and NEVER go ANYWHERE until the children are old enough to behave?

I have a newborn. I have things I have to do in public places. Newborns cry. Get the hell over it, because nothing is going to change that.

BTW, it is you who needs to grow up and change.

@stemnyjones Or just.. DON’T BRING YOUR KID WITH YOU. It’s simple.
It’s not like fancy restaurants are a “I do this every day” kind of thing. I’m sure you can have a friend or relative or neighbor keep track of your kid for a few hours every couple of months.
Honestly, I’d rather have a needle shoved in my ear than hear babies cry. It’s the worst thing ever created. You have no idea how much you ruin other peoples’ days.

In the case that the OP mentions, the mother should’ve taken the baby somewhere private and breastfed it to shut it up.

And before anyone says it, YES I KNOW it is obvious that I don’t have kids. Seems like every time I make the remark that babies are annoying, somebody thinks they’re so smart and has to tell me that I have no kids.

There are certain places a child should not go, a fancy restaurant is one, so is the movies. I do think it is selfish for these people to impose themselves upon others who should reasonably be able to expect that children will not be interrupting the atmosphere, like a play or gallery opening.

I think you sound a bit angry about it. I belong to “no kids” team, and even I think you are blowing it out of proportion. No one can predict how and when their baby/child will act out. The store, family diners, amusement parks, malls—these are places where you just have to deal with it.

If you let things like this get to you so much, you’ll end up a very bitter, and probably lonely person.

@Sarcasm It’s actually not that simple. I’m sure once you leave the restaurant you can get over the fact that a baby was crying for a few minutes. Parents deserve to go out, with their children.

Not to a 20 dollar a plate restaurant. I would ask for my money back if that happened while I was trying to enjoy my expensive meal, or enjoy my tickets for Phantom, or relax by the pool at my very expensive hotel. Not like I do those things on a regular basis. I am just making a point.

@Sarcasm I can’t not bring my kid with me. She’s two months old, she can’t stay at home on her own and play. I can’t afford a babysitter, and even if I could, I would still take my baby with me. I’m not going to restrict my life and stimulation for my newborn because people who aren’t parents don’t want to deal with it. Like @chelseababyy said, if you don’t like it, leave.

@Sarcasm – supposedly crying stimulates nursing mothers to lactate. So that’s at least part of the reason human offspring are so loud and annoying.

And, no, the sprog didn’t cry for a “few minutes.” That might have been perfectly understandable. They let it cry for the better part of half an hour. That’s inexcusably selfish, though probably expected from most suburbanites.

BTW, I’d like to point out that when my baby is crying, I do my best to give her what she needs so that she stops (which isn’t hard, because at this age babies don’t cry just for the shit of it, they cry for a reason), and I hurry to get out of the situation, not really because I give a shit about people like you (you being everyone on this thread who can’t stand for 5 minutes what us parents don’t like either, but are mature enough to put up with all day, because it’s a BABY who has no idea what it’s doing), but because I want to take care of my child.

If someone ignores their baby’s cries and draws out the excursion, then that’s different.

@bolwerk Then that’s more understandable to me. I’d be pissed too if someone just let their kid cry for half an hour without trying to stop it, in public or not.

@bolwerk: Presumably from the tone of your recent questions, you were raised by wolves?

@stemnyjones Do you not have relatives? Do you not have friends? Do you not have siblings?
@chelseababyy Sure they deserve to go out with their kids. But I deserve to not have the pain of a million needles stuck in my ears whenever I go out. I’m sure there are plenty of baby-friendly places to go. You don’t have to bring it to an expensive restaurant.
once you leave the restaurant you can get over the fact that a baby was crying for a few minutes
And I’m sure that a parent can get over the fact that they didn’t bring their kid with them to a restaurant to have 40 other people all have to deal with their painful crying.

@Sarcasm I have relatives and friends and siblings. They have things to do with their lives.

And, as I pointed out, I would bring her anyway.

@Sarcasm I’m sure that doesn’t happen every time you go out. Parents shouldn’t have to worry about going to a “baby-friendly” place, they have enough to do already. I’m sure once you’re a parent, you’ll understand.

@chelseababyy I’d say that at least 2 out of every 3 times I go out, it happens.
Once I’m a parent I’ll understand…. that my desires come before the desires of 40 other people?
@stemnyjones You don’t know a single person in your life who can take care of your baby for 4 hours every few months?

@Sarcasm I will repeat myself for the third time.

I would not leave my daughter at home anyway.

When we are out, I do my best to silence her crying. If she won’t stop crying, I do leave ASAP.

But I am NOT going to leave her at home with someone because “40 other people” don’t want to hear her crying. Too fucking bad, it’s part of life.

@Sarcasm No, that the desires of your child, come before everone else.

Also,
”@stemnyjones You don’t know a single person in your life who can take care of your baby for 4 hours every few months?”
4 hours every few months? Seriously? People need time to go out and not every few months for 4 hours. That’s just ridiculous.

The desires of your child, @chelseababyy? How exactly do you know that your child desires to go to a restaurant?

edit: Anyway, if your kid is crying, clearly its desires AREN’T first.

@Sarcasm Okay. Let me reword this for you.
Parents take their children out, because they want to, because they can. Just because the child is going to cry, doesn’t mean they’re not going to go out. If you’re out, and your kid is crying, you could care less about the fact that people are getting annoyed and you take care of your kid.
Babies cry, it’s natural. To say that parents shouldn’t go places because of that, is crap. Parents have rights to go where they please, with their child.

I’ll guarantee there were plenty of folks who had to listen to your little screaming sprog ass at one time so I gues it’s just karma balancing itself out.

unless your parents kept you locked in a closet

@Blondesjon If I choose not to have babies, can I call you up in 40 years and laugh?
edit: and also ask for a refund for all the crying I’ll have had to endure for 60 years?

@bolwerk can you share what kind of restaurant you were patronizing? If, as some in this thread have assumed, this was a high-end, expensive restaurant, the baby did not belong there. If however, this was a more family friendly place, then this family has every right to bring that baby along and not expect to be hassled.

That being said, as much as it pains me to admit this to a jelly who refers to children as “sprogs,” if this mom did nothing to calm the baby, it would have grated on me. If it played out as described, the fact is that baby was crying because it was hungry. The mom needed to feed the baby. Period. If she was too shy to breast feed in public, she should have taken the baby to the car or somewhere else where she was comfortable. Or she should have pumped and brought a bottle.

Whether I liked it or not, when my kids were littler, there were some places they were not welcome. I understood that completely and did not visit those places. See, I am not fond of hanging out in places where I am not wanted. It is just not worth the looks and attitude. I also factor in the reality that even as a parent, there are times when I want to be in an “adults only” zone.

@Sarcasm I think @Blondesjon was referring to your childhood and the times you may have screamed in public.

@Blondesjon I was going to say something similar myself…

@Sarcasm If a baby is crying, he/she is most likely hungry or something is not right. A baby can’t talk. So crying is the babies way of telling you that something is up. That doesn’t mean it’s desires aren’t first.

@chelseababyy But if it’s constantly crying for 10 minutes, I think it makes sense that the kid’s needs aren’t being met.

I crap on your doorstep, because I want to, because I can. Just because the crap is going to stink, doesn’t mean I’m not going to do it . If you’re crapping on someone’s steps, and it smells rank, you could care less about the fact that people are getting annoyed and you do your business.

I defecate, it’s natural. To say that I shouldn’t defecate because of the scent of my defecation, is crap. We all have rights to defecate where we please, without regard for others.

actually that poses a health issue. try again,

I think Rodney King said it best: “Can’t we all just get along?”

@Sarcasm Not true. Some babies just cry because they are fussy, because they are bored with their environment, or because they have been over or under stimulated. Some babies cry because of colic, and there’s nothing you can do to soothe them. (In which case, I personally would try my best not to take my baby out, because it stresses ME out when she cries nonstop) Some are gassy and need time for gas drops to set in.

@bolwerk, I am with you regarding this mother needed to remove her child, but comparing taking a baby to a restaurant to defecating on someone’s doorstep? You lost me there.

@SuperMouse: I was just mocking another poster’s self-centered attitude.

And to clarify, I never said sprogs shouldn’t be allowed in public. I was just saying that people shouldn’t needlessly inflict their sprogs’ screaming on the public. That really is similar to defecating in public.

Babies get nothing out of being taken out to non-child friendly places. And really, neither do parents of screaming children. It’s more stressful to sit in a restaurant with a screaming child than it is to stay home. Not all things that were appropriate pre-baby are appropriate post-baby. It that were the case, why not take the baby to the corner bar to watch a football game, or out clubbing, because the noise will drown out the crying? Or to the orchestra, or the opera, for that matter?

jesus
I inflict my “sprog” on people all the time apparently. He cries and I have to deal with it. I’m not leaving the grocery store just because my kid doesn’t want to be there.
Now, restaurants are a different story, of course there are restaurants kids shouldn’t go to, and I’d actually say it starts at $30 plates and up. (that’s just my area though, I know every area is different)
Newborns cry. It’s what they do. Who cares if she was nervous about breastfeeding in public, probably because someone like you was staring at her.

In the scenario described above, I’d say I agree with the asker. Letting a hungry baby cry for that long, in public or at home, is wrong. I can understand the mom being hesitant to breastfeed in public, and I can understand the parents wanting to have a nice meal out for a change. What I can’t understand is taking a baby anywhere and not attending to its needs. Yes, it was rude of the parents to put the other diners through that kind of noise.

However, please don’t lump all of us parents into that category. I have never, and will never, let my children scream in a public place without dealing with the situation. I go out of my way to avoid troubling other people with my children when I am in public. We go to restaurants specifically designed for families, movies made for young children, and stores that are kid-friendly. I am strict with how my kids behave, but do not expect them to act like adults. There are plenty of people who do expect even a 2 year old to act like an adult in public and will give a parent the nastiest looks or make snide comments if your kid so much as squeaks once or forgets their manners. It makes me very uncomfortable, to the point where I am so focused on how my kids behave when we’re out that I don’t even get to relax and just have fun being with them.

So, thanks for adding to the stress considerate parents feel with a question like this.

@casheroo: someone like me? I’m sure a fair number of people in the room were eying her with disgust, but I’m not sure how that seems pretty reasonable under the circumstances.

Naturally, it’s wrong that American prudishness often prohibits public breastfeeding (socially, if not legally). But that hardly seems to be an issue, since she could have slipped into the restroom if she didn’t want to do it publicly.

@bolwerk . . . do you like eating in public restrooms?

@bolwerk Crying babies don’t even phase me. If it’s not mine, I can tune it out. So, nope, I don’t agree with you..
And I would never breastfeed in a bathroom, that’s disgusting.

I never breastfed either of mine in a bathroom, either. Both of mine breastfed until well past their first birthday. I carried a shawl in the bag, and could nurse them under that.

When they were very little, we either stayed with family-friendly restaurants, hired a babysitter, or didn’t go out. You can’t exactly change a diaper in a restaurant that does not cater to children, and the comfort of the infant alone is reason enough to choose staying home when they’re very young.

@bolwerk Perhaps if you chose not to say the word sprog, people might (doubtful) give you more leeway. Since you chose to use a disparaging word for a baby, your intent was quite clear. As others have said, you’re just going to have to deal with it. I doubt whatever place you went for brunch was a 5 star restaurant. Thus, you cannot expect families to be excluded. Suck it up.

What? You don’t like to hear a small squeaky-voiced human’s loud, annoying suffering? I’m shocked! Thanks for the tip, @bolwerk! All better!

I cannot fathom people like you reproducing ever in life. What a pity it must be to see breastfeeding as such an obscenity. What a pity it must be to be so irritated by an unhappy infant that you are that repulsed. What a pity it must be that you think “parents” are the most selfish class of people there is. I guess I can take comfort in the fact that people like you will never make more people like you through your selfish reproduction.

Let’s see all the ways parents can be in the wrong in such a situation:

1. They brought their baby to a public place. How dare they “inflict their screaming sprog on the general public”.
2. They frequently go out for brunch, and always leave their child with a babysitter. How dare they hire other people to raise their child for them.
3. They allowed their child to cry incessantly for 20 minutes.
4. They gave the child a cookie to shut it up. Do they not consider things like sugar, tooth decay, and the effect of chocolate on a child’s brain?
5. She refused to breastfeed her child in public. Why doesn’t she put her child’s needs first?
6. She breastfed her child in the public bathroom. How disgusting! Why doesn’t she stand up for her child’s right to eat in a sanitary environment?
7. She breastfed her child. Right there at the table! How immodest! How revolting! Why do I have to be subjected to seeing her naked breast?
8. She breastfed her child, at the table, with a blanket over his head! Isn’t that like eating with a napkin on your face? Isn’t he hot under there?

Long story short (Too late, I know) there isn’t anything we, as parents, can do, that isn’t going to piss someone off. You know what we do instead? We make ourselves happy, and do the best we can for our children and our families. The “general public” can, quite frankly, stuff it.

@ubersiren, huh? When did I ever say I had a problem with breastfeeding? I have a problem with letting a child scream in a public place because it’s hungry. I could care less about breastfeeding in public. As a matter of fact, I already said I find the stigmatization of public breastfeeding wrong. But if it annoys busybodies like you, I’m even more all for it. If you want evidence that parents are disproportionately selfish, this thread provides plenty.

@Seek_Kolinahr: good to hear. Glad that the general public has moral grounding to cheer itself up and put your baby feet first into a blender. You know, taking this “make ourselves happy” philosophy of yours to its logical conclusion. Sociopath.

@Supermouse: it was just a restaurant. Not particularly high-end, but not really trashy either. I don’t see what difference that makes unless it was aimed at kids, like a Chucky Cheese or McDonald’s – places I would never go.

@bolwerk . . . we get it. you hate crying babies. you hate them as much as you hate vaginas. point taken.

lmao @Blondesjon

@Blondesjon: Uh, yeah, calling self-absorbed suburbanites on their anti-social behavior means I’m misogynistic. Right, that makes ton of sense.

I’m pretty sure that going out is the opposite of “anti-social behavior”.

Using big words doesn’t make you seem smarter, especially if what you’re saying doesn’t make sense. :)

@bolwerk . . . i wasn’t really referring to any kind of misogynistic bent per se. . .

@Blondesjon Now now. Calling him gay just because he doesn’t like crying babies is just a little too far.

@Sarcasm . . . why sir, I find your insinuations to be both insulting and repugnant. I demand satisfaction!

@bolwerk you make it incredibly difficult to agree with you. I attempted to agree, at least partially, with your original stance, but the more you write, the more you lose me.

How can the type of restaurant not make a difference? I would think absolutely nothing of taking my child to Cheesecake Factory or another upscale family restaurant. I would not however, take a small child to The Palm. I loathe funhouses like Chuck E Cheese and I flat out refuse to be relegated to eating at places like that just because I chose to procreate.

Also the thought of breastfeeding a child in a restroom turns my stomach. That is just plain gross.

How in the world can you refer to a mom taking her child out in public as anti-social behavior? It seems to me that the person being anti-social here is the one who compares children to feces and refuses to accept that public places are just that public and everyone – regardless of their decision to have children – is allowed.

@Seek_Kolinahr I think you’ve summed up my biggest frustration with parenting right there. No matter what you do as a parent, someone is ready and willing to loudly proclaim you’re doing it “wrong.”

@bolwerk I have to agree with @SuperMouse above. I, too, initially sympathized with you on the scenario you described in the question. I also loathe Chuck E. Cheese!

Parenting is really hard, and unless you’ve done it you really can’t know what it’s like or judge others for how they want to raise their kids. Things that can seem crazy when you don’t have kids, like going to a decent restaurant with a baby, start to look pretty darn attractive when you’ve been up all night with a colicky baby, have been too busy and exhausted to clean your house or cook, and just want a little bit of time to maybe talk to your spouse and eat something that you didn’t have to stand on your own tired feet to prepare. Maybe you don’t have relatives in the area or know people you’re comfortable leaving a small baby with. I always hated to ask someone to babysit an infant because I felt like I was inconveniencing people. Yeah, the parents you mentioned didn’t handle it well. Personally, I don’t think you are handling it well either. You have no way of knowing what those parents have been dealing with, what their lives are like, or why they acted the way they did.

@MissAusten

Exactly. From the moment you become noticeably pregnant, everyone and their uncle is both obstetrician and parenting expert. There were several times during my pregnancy I offered to make a beer run for my husband, just to count the number of death-glares from complete strangers. The first time I took my son out in public, I had three strangers comment on the fact he wasn’t wearing a hat or socks. He was born August 17th, in Florida. It was 98 degrees outside. Even now, at 16 months old, I have people instructing me on whether he should have shoes on, or if it’s appropriate to let him have a chocolate chip cookie.

How about everyone on the planet just minds their own damned business? I have a happy, healthy son who never cries unless he’s bleeding, says “please” and “thank you”, and is a complete joy to be around. I think I’m doing all right without your supervision. Hm?

I love Chucky Cheese.

My 4 year old is absolutely terrified of Chuck E. Cheese.

What the hell is a “sprog”?

“a child, sprog being a slang term for a child” from my online dictionary.

firstly, if it has any relevance to the discussion, let me say that in the past I was the mother of a baby
There are simply some places I would never take a baby, such as live theatre, a movie theatre, anywhere people would be disturbed by extraneous noise how can someone possibly concentrate on a theatre production or film when a child is crying!. I myself would not like to be disturbed by a crying baby when sitting in the theatre, I don’t know if they still exist but there used to be rooms known as “crying rooms ” where people with babies could sit and watch a film without disturbing other patrons. I would also not take a baby or small child to a restaurant that would not be considered family friendly. In other situations, if my baby cried I would try and resolve the situation but if it continued longer than a few minutes I would remove myself and my child from the situation.
I’d also like to add that yes I was exclusively breast-feeding my daughter and did not simply leave her in the care of other people so I could go out to the theatre and movies.

Does anyone else find it ironic that the OP is calling someone else a troll?

@tinyfaery You can pick up my kids and take them to Chuck E. Cheese. They are always asking to go, and I keep avoiding it. If you take them, we all win! ;)

@tinyfaery @MissAusten

Hell, take mine, too. You can suffer the crowds and bad pizza, and I’ll get to take a bath without an audience for once. ^_^

@Supacase my oldest son was terrified too. He used to refuse to go to parties there. The one time he did go he hid under the table the entire time.

Hey, I don’t have kids for a reason. ;) I like the games. And since I know what I am getting into when I go there, I do not let myself be annoyed.

@PretentiousArtist

“Does anyone else find it ironic that the OP is calling someone else a troll?”

What does OP stand for?

Original Poster; viz; the person who posed the question. Here the OP is the tactful and sensitive @bolwerk.

Thank you.

What does viz mean?

Viz; is an abbrevation from the Latin videlicet and is commonly used for “namely” or “for example.” Next time you write a paper, stun your English comp. teacher.

(To muddy the waters further, ”videlicet itself is a contraction from Latin of “videre licet” meaning “it is permitted to see.”)

TMI?

edit: Customarily Viz is followed by a colon. Viz: viz:

I see people here saying things like if you don’t like my child screaming, you can leave.

That is what I do. I do not go to “family” restaurants for just this reason. That being said, if I am at a restaurant, I ask if I can be moved away from a screaming child. If I cannot, I box up my meal and tell the manager that I shall not be returning, then walk out. When subjected to screaming children at movie theatres I speak to the manager for a refund of the ticket price which I often get. I also like movies like Pixarr and some Disney but I would never even consider going to one of those.

There is no reason for me to do more than that because I know it is pointless. I know that a goodly number of parents are not going to care that I am bothered by a screaming child, which is like icepicks into my ears and gives me a headache. If I am around it too long I can get a full blown migraine. Parents like this do not care about people like me or anyone else who does not like being unwillingly subjected to their children for whatever reason.

If I know that I have to go to a doctor’s office I carry a set of earplugs because I know that, if I am subjected to a screaming child, I cannot get away and few care.

I think that a bit of crying is ok, if the parent immediately takes steps to stop it. If they let the child cry/scream/act out, while they ignore it (I’ve had kids come to my table and try and take food off my plate, for example), then I have a serious problem. But Mommy and Daddy that do not see their precious iddow babykins is disturbing others will be the first to have a fit if those that are disturbed start swearing in their kids’ faces. Bet me?

When I was a child, I was very quiet and could entertain myself indefinitely. I suspect that the parents I see with howling children are just poor parents who are raising spoiled, selfish, little bourgeois mini-yuppies just like themselves who will yowl and whine for the rest of their lives and neither possess, nor ever feel any need to possess, self-control.

Often, it is the quiet children that can entertain themselves that ultimately grow up to develop logorrhea. I know, I know, it is wrong to generalize…. ~