Does repeatedly careless spelling and total disregard of grammar justify criticism?

I guess as long as it is constructive criticism, and it is sent in an email, instead of pointing it out to the person on the discussion board. No need to embarass someone over it. I mean, if it really bothers one that badly, then that is how I would handle it.

To some degree, yes. When a person joins a discussion, it is expected that they will be speaking the language of the group. There are ‘rules’ of grammer and spelling to insure understanding in a wide population. I think that simply pointing out mistakes is sufficient. To pull a question or answer is rude. It accomplishes little except to anger the writer.

LMAO, seriously? You should try some of the questions on AB. There’s a difference between being a grammar Nazi, and mocking someone over their spelling. If it’s a typo that’s one thing. If it’s “Gyz I got 8 fer yer mudder onz nwyrz @4 an gain at fife kned kno pimpin cuz ida gr81 yo” that’s something entirely different.

It’s not Fluther style to accept text-speak, or leet-speak or whatever it’s called, and one is encouraged to check spelling and grammar, but I haven’t seen a grammar-Nazi approach. I have seen plenty of barely coherent posts on Fluther. If the poster is not a native speaker of English I tend not to draw any conclusions. Otherwise I draw invidious conclusions.

Okay! trying to answer this again, since fluther ate my first response.

I think it’s important to try your best if you’re in an environment that expects you to do so. When in Rome, as the saying goes.

That aside, it’s realy rude to nit-pick anyone, especially publicly. What it shows, more than spelling or grammatical concern, is a person who cares more about emotionally masturbating to an unwilling victim, than actually improving a site.

I got brought out into the light publicly because I didn’t include a comma in one of my sentences. Yes, you heard correctly. A comma.
The ever-so polite person publicly drew me out, only to find out that she was completely wrong, as another jelly made her publicly aware.

If you’re going to be an ass, you can only play the odds for so long before it catches up with you.

The main point I learned is that, unless the person is a moderator, you’re invited to do as I do, and ignore the everloving fuck out of them.

Merry Christmas :)

I wrote “Fluther… is notorious for being grammatically snooty and spellingly snarky”.

If you check the entire post it was taken from you can see that it is being used out of context. It was towards the end of this thread.

Pe0PLE whO TyPE LykE dIS, of course deserve to be corrected if not mocked.
Ppl who type lyke dis, purty plz kthxbi, deserve it as well.

But there is nothing wrong with the occasional grammar, punctuation or spelling error.
We all make those petty little mistakes, such as forgetting a comma or spelling highschool instead of high school.
I think whoever wrote, “notorious for being grammatically snooty and spellingly snarky,” probably only had a few particular people in mind, as I do right now.
It is rude to tell someone they have forgotten a comma or to stop overpunctuating because it “hurts your eyes”. (Yes, I’ve heard that excuse before on this site.)
And yeah, Phillis pretty much hit the nail on the head with the rest.
Several people have ended up eating shit after finding out some of the reasons behind someone’s grammatical errors. It doesn’t always have anything to do with lack of education. Save yourself from looking like an asshole and only correct someone if talking in text-speak, not for missing a comma or including too many exclamation points.

@Blondesjon Seems to me it’s being accurately portrayed in it’s proper context.

In a class room, definitely. On a public forum it’s usually not appreciated though sometimes too irresistable to care. Bumper sticker: “I’ll be nicer if you’ll be smarter.”

Tit for tat, dracool. My new motto is:
If you show your ass, I’ll show mine. Play nice

mooning Phillis

no

Does the same, adds a fart, walks away calmly, smiling to herself

Ah phillis, one to never be out done

Austinius, I’d love a good moon too!! Whoot Whoot Whoot

Well said Phillis and Vunessah! I second that!!! high five!

@Blondesjon will take note that I intentionally did not identify or criticism you.
I just liked the quote and took no issue with your point or your language usage.
You chose to identify yourself. I quoted you so as to frame my own question.
If you did not want feedback on the appropriateness of your comments, you could have chosen not to raise the issue.

YES!

[Mod Says:] A gentle reminder to please stay on topic. The question is: “Does repeatedly careless spelling and total disregard of grammar justify criticism?” Thanks!

From Moderators and Owners? Their prerogative.

From users? Usually a sign they disagree with you but can’t formulate a decent argument.

For example: jyte.com

@Dr_Lawrence . . . No problems my friend. I’m flattered.

I simply wanted the record to show that the full quip was actually in regards to the fact that Fluther is not as grammatically militant as it is often portrayed.

To answer your original question, no. It deserves correction.

I think people make more of a deal out of it than is necessary. Of course if your writing is unreadable, in text speech or just carelessly written then it does justify some criticism.

But if people are picking up and pointing out simple typos or small grammatical errors it begs the question, what are your priorities?

This site is to ask and answer questions as well as engaging in conversation. If you are just here to correct people on their mistakes, it doesn’t seem polite to me. I wouldn’t like people telling me I’ve spelt that wrong or I’ve forgotten that comma.

Most of the time I realise when I have made a mistake, I don’t need someone to point it out for me.

You’ll probably also see me accidentally switch between the American and English versions of certain words where the ‘s’ and ‘z’ are. That’s what you get when an Australian is on an American website. I don’t see it as a big deal and I don’t like people to tell me that I’ve got it wrong, it just seems rude and slightly conceited.

What was that about off topic remarks, Dog?

I recently corrected someone about something on their bio. It was sent in a PM. Not to be an ass, as I am quite capable of being, but to be helpful. We can correct others, reminding them gently of their mistakes, or we can be complete fucks, and mock people for not being perfect writers of English. I always choose the former.

Sitting next to me is The American Heritage Dictionary. its my third arm when i am on Answerbag or Fluther. i constantly take advantage of it, so i will not show my ignorance in spelling a word or its definition. I always edit my questions and answers before hitting the transmit key. if a person is constantly making mistakes in spelling and grammar, they should be made aware of this. if i can take the time to ask and answer questions that are hopefully correct, so can this person. its called L A Z Y

That’s great, John! Don’t forget to brush up on your grammar with some college courses. You’ll need them here (because no….it isn’t really necessary, but a few think that it is).

@john65pennington “Hopefully” is an adverb.

If I’m making a – how shall we say – pithy comment, I understand the importance of getting spelling and grammar as correct as possible.

Hopefully is an adverb, hopefully.

Ouch! I think I’ve been guilty of the incoherence described below…

It is an interesting question. Some people here seem to take pride in writing in a sloppy and often incoherent manner. I have wondered why. When I have to read a question or answer three times in order to get the point, I will pass.

I do admire the folks who write to the point and with clarity. Is that so offensive? Who knows? We have this debate regularly; I hope that we continue to.

Addition: I consider this site, in addition to its main purpose, as a place where I can improve my writing and pick up tips from other good writers. Personally, when I make a
linguistic boo boo, I appreciate learning about it.

Isn’t that similar to writing code? Never mind being sloppy; one misplaced comma or slash, and you are caput.

@john65pennington sometimes it can be a rather “simple” word that you accidentally spell wrong. Maybe because those typing fingers are going really fast and you flub up. And on proof reading it you didn’t catch it. It could be a simple error and I think it could happen many times and it don’t mean I am being lazy about it or need to be reminded of it. I too have a dictionary right here at the computer and I use it often. But sometimes you could just simply mess up and for example leave out one of the “L’s” in “Hopefuly. There are people on this site that have “dyslexia” and that can cause some spelling problems and the way I understand it, it happens “often”

It helps the collective if someone has a language disability or uses English as his or her second language, to let us know in your profile. It is demoralizing, to say the least, to note how our Dutch, Scandinavian (no, not you, jonsblond) German, Asian, and Spanish-speaking Jellies (among others) handle English.

Obvious typos are easy to separate out from unintelligible obfuscation.

@gailcalled- Amen.

@AstroChuck: And a giant nose honk to you tonight.

I am dyslexic and struggle to not create typos all the time. I try to fix as many as possible but some still slip by me despite my best attempts. I appreciate it when my errors are pointed out when I can still do something to correct them.

I think it is important to clarify criticism vs the help of the moderation staff via push to edit. The goal in moderation is help not slap down. I would not be a moderator if the goal was to punish.

As a moderator I will often send a PM to someone so they can edit before they run out of time or before I send a question back to them to edit so they know I will be waiting to re-post. I am happy to answer questions. I am not making a judgement as I am the last person on earth who would be qualified to do so.

Criticism quips remind me of when Fluther did not allow easy to Google questions. A more simple question would bring on the snarky remarks and it was sad. I might understand the spelling snark if a user was belligerently abusing the language after being asked not to. However in most cases I just wish that if a question had an issue that the users would flag and let the moderation staff handle it.

Pssst: @Darwin- no giving away award secrets! ;)

I just happened to get this in an email today and found it interesting. Since this question had to do with Grammer/Spelling I thought I’d share it. I’m sure many have already seen it.
.
.fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too

Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno ’ t mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.
.
The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

@NUNYA That is a famous old trick first published in a different form at Stanford University in the psychology department. It has much more to do with Gestalt pattern recognition than with reading or spelling. Just sayin’.

@pdworkin Gotcha, thanks! Just thought it was interesting how the mind works. [smiles]

@pdworkin Reading is pattern recognition then isn’t it?

Eventually.

not here it dont

@NUNYA I was fascinated by the example you provided and I was astonished that I could comprehend most of it with little effort.
Just the same, it does demand a great deal of CPU time (brain power) to decode such a message. If this sort of writing became commonplace, it would make the asking and answering of questions extremely labourious.

I noticed that the moderators removed an unusual number of responses.
I would appreciate if those whose answers were removed would send me a private message so I can see what they were intending to answer.

Thank you all for your answers!

Darwin gave away one of the secret rewards and I questioned it.
And this will prolly be mod’d too. Sighs
But there’s your answer. :)

Hey, I said I was sorry!

Why? They act like you accidently giving away an award is similar to cheating on a college exam. Who cares. It’s a social networking site, not school.
Sheesh. Some of the rules here…... I tell ya.

@Vunessuh We do not allow the divulging of award secrets (even accidental) because they are spoilers for those who do not want to know. It is all in good fun. I had to remove one of my own quips because I accidentally revealed one once. :)

Good fun is fine and dandy. I do have several questions for you that contradict the encourage of good fun though. I’ll PM them to you because I don’t want to go off topic.

The occasional error happens to us all. And I am certainly willing to admit that my education (and mental retention) has various and sundry gaps.

However, if someone posts a question with repeated, sloppy errors, I skip it – if they are unwilling to put even that much effort into a question, why should I make any effort at all to answer it?

If I’ve tried my best to formulate a clear, concise question and someone posts a poorly thought out, typo ridden response, it seems to indicate a lack of respect. Should I trust the accuracy of an answer or accept the advice of someone who can’t even communicate intelligibly?

@Vunessuh – I did the crime, I gotta do the time. It’s no skin off my nose, and actually means the mods are paying attention to little old me.

What a thrill!

@Darwin I completely understand if it’s all in good fun to want to keep those awards a secret. If that’s the case, mods need to be consistent with that statement. Mods are literally deleting, molding and discouraging everyones sense of humor and individuality. Not Dog. But others. That’s the only reason why I said anything. :)
I’m talking to Dog to try and understand it better and provide some specific examples.
Not going to go into detail here to be respectful.

@Vunessuh – It is all in good fun. All of Fluther is, actually.

I beg to differ, but I’m very happy you feel that way.

Spellingly: adv. To behave or appear like Tori Spelling.

“She Spellingly strode out of the cosmetic surgeon’s office”

@proXXi Laughs See, now that was cute.

Yes. Sure, we all make mistakes, but when someone decides that they don’t actually want to try, then yes, criticism is warranted.

Aww, shucks indeed.

@proXXi You added indeed! That’s awesome! :D

@proXXi I agree. PRIVATE criticism. Not public.

Yes: Praise in public, criticize in private.

I definitely think we are snooty and snarky sometimes and here’s why:

There’s a difference between calling someone out on a completely illegible post wrought with numerous errors and acting like you need to correct small mistakes that don’t hinder the intended meaning of the post.

In other words:

If you see a comment or question like “Omg lyk haf u been 2 mai hizzouse?” and you tell the person their question is ridiculously worded, I would consider that fine, especially if the question is hard to understand because of the grammatical errors. Not only that, but there are rules on this site that state that too many errors can lead to a comment or question being pulled, but it has to be particularly egregious. Making an error with “your/you’re” isn’t going to end up getting the comment/question pulled.

But if you see something like “I don’t care for the texture of seaweed or it’s taste” and you respond to that person by saying “Actually, it’s ‘its’”, then I would consider that snooty. First of all, just because they made a small error like that does not mean they don’t understand the rules. It could just mean that they were typing quickly and made a mistake. Secondly, if you respond to a comment or question like that without actually making a real response, it shows that you’re ignoring the question and makes it seem like you’re just here to show off your grammatical knowledge, but let’s face it, 9-year-olds learn the difference between “it’s” and “its”, so it’s not really that impressive. It’s especially annoying if you know the person and you’re familiar with their tendency toward grammatical correctness; seems like there’s really no need to correct them there.

I don’t think I’ve ever corrected anyone on here for grammar unless they asked about grammar. That’s just not what I do. But I’ve seen numerous other people here do it.

Personally, I would simply flag “Omg lyk haf u been 2 mai hizzouse?” as being completely incomprehensible.

I generally am annoyed by poor spelling and grammar only if the person is purposefully doing it to look “cool” such as leet, excessive chatspeak, tYpInG LyKe ThIs, and the lot.

I find purposeful mangling of the written word to be annoying and rude. First thing, it says that the person does not care about the reader: their exercising of freedom of expression is more important than ease of reading (I have been told exactly that). There are people on primarily English speaking boards who are dyslexic like myself and have varying degrees of difficulty deciphering such things. There are also people whose main language is not English. It has to be even more difficult for them to decipher these things than it is for me.

Occasionally I say something to people who do this but usually just ignore them.

However, if the person is making their best effort but still make lots of errors it does not bother me. Some people are dyslexic (like myself) or have other learning disorders, English is not their first language, or they did not have decent English teachers in school.

If they fall under the “making their best effort” crowd, if I know that the person would welcome constructive criticism, I often will say something. However, I do that only if I know the person and know that they will not be offended.

If the question or answer from people who are trying their best is indecipherable to me and I want to know what they said, I will ask them to please rephrase it, telling them that I really want to know what they said but I just cannot make it out.

Personally, I have no problem with someone correcting my spelling, grammar, or improper use of a word as long as it is done to be constructive rather than using the “correction” as an insult. If they do it constructively, I thank them. If it is as an insult, I react a little less pleasantly.

“Are we snooty and “snarky” about grammar and spelling.”
—more so than most sites. I find questions and answers much easier for me to read here because of it.

“Are we justified in responding to the errors?”
—as long as it is not used as an insult.

“Does it raise or maintain the level of discourse.”
—raises the level.

“What’s wrong with setting and expecting an effort towards maintaining high standards?”
—I have no problem with this as long as people’s efforts are recognized and difficulties are taken into consideration. I do not believe that someone should be discouraged from participation if they are doing their best and believe that insults are unnecessary.

While the quote was taken out of context and the meaning was completely changed, I do agree that there are people here on fluther who go too far with their constant need to correct everyone. Calling people out in public for minor errors is extremely rude, yet there is at least one person on fluther who, despite being notified by several people that this behavior is rude, continues to do it. Its unnecessary. I’ve been guilty of correcting someone, but it was after several posts with “u” instead of “you” which was something that nobody likes here. If its discouraging text speak or clarifying the meaning of something, correction is ok. But when its just nit-picking and being an ass for the sake of being “superior,” its not.

@avvooooooo Well said and thank you!!