What is wrong with America's Education System?

Do you know of anyone who has graduated from college with honors, and is unable to correctly use their/ there/ they’re, etc.? While there are plenty of people who are unable to correctly use them, I’m a bit doubtful as whether or not it’s a common problem amongst college graduates with honors.

@jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities , yes I do :P I wouldn’t even ask this question if I didn’t ;)

@Glow Fair enough, but as a recent college grad myself, I find it a bit hard to believe (at least that it is a common problem). I know I wouldn’t have made it to graduation without those basic skills.

I think schools might be skimming over the basics of education in order to get everyone more tech saavy sooner.
I think it would be useful if the 3 R’s might be taught a bit more thoroughly first.

Did they pay someone to write their papers? I can’t imagine getting through school without getting butchered for making those mistakes.

I know a lot of people that wrote papers for others in college for a substantial amount of money.

I was so hoping that this question would have a grammatical or spelling error. I believe you mean “this country’s” education.

Schadenfreude, FTW.

@johnpowell – basically, that is how said person did it. I don’t want to point fingers or blame the person, but I was in college with this person and to get by for not knowing proper grammar, they had someone write their papers… I saw it with my own eyes, but I didn’t want to be a problem maker and snitch them out, especially since we spoke to each other often in classes.

@JustPlainBarb – I agree with you about that :P

and wow, @Mamradpivo…. instead of answering my question, you go through the trouble of looking for a grammatical error in my own question, and pointed out on a simple punctuation slip ^^ Ha. Schadenfreude, indeed.

Oh, btw, I think college should have an exit exam. That’s just me :)

@Glow Well then that’s not exactly a failure of the American education system per se, but more of an example of an individual cheating the system.

@jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities – if a person can cheat a system, the system is flawed.

@Glow I’m not sure what college or university will grant a diploma with honors to someone who writes an honors thesis full of spelling errors. Do you know of one? My alma mater (University of Colorado, class of 2005) certainly wouldn’t.

However, I think that the educational system reflects our culture as a whole. Americans have a long history of disdain for intellectualism. This manifests itself in many ways: trying to ban instruction about evolution in public schools, denial of global warming, portraying professors as effeminate weaklings, etc. I’ve also read that most Americans don’t read more than one or two books a year’’. We don’t value education, so we don’t invest in it.

Mistaking homophones is the least of our problems.

I do not think America cares about proper English or math problems.

If they do not need it in order to live, then why bother? Since a large majority of it, depending on your career and college courses may not be important. Of course times are changing and all, so maybe we will see changes?

To me its like a supply and demand thing, if you do not need those math solving skills or proper English to get your point across whats the point?

I find the ironic thing here is its America , you can really only fail yourself at the end of the day, if you find English, math, or other skills a necessity then learn it, if not then don’t.

Just one person’s opinion.

@Glow People will always find a way to cheat. Every system. And I’m not saying that the education system isn’t flawed, but you make it sound like all college students are a bunch of idiots who have failed to learn the most basic of skills. Your example is of how one person found a way to cheat and still make it through to graduation. I’m sure there are other cases of exactly the same thing happening as well, but as a whole it’s not a common occurrence for someone to graduate without acquiring the ability to differentiate between their/there/they’re. It sounds like you are less interested in looking at the flaws of the education system, but would rather vent about one person who cheated their way to the finish.

@Mamradpivo – The actual college or university itself probably does play a role in it as well. But with your last statement, are you saying that we shouldn’t be too concerned with people graduating college and not being able to use homophones properly?

@Steve_A – Ah, that’s very true. I just value education and knowledge so much, that I feel we as a country should too… Yes, we can’t make anyone learn, but we can certainly deny them a college degree if they don’t. At least, that is how I feel about it.

@jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities – I’m not saying anything about college students in general, I don’t know where you are getting that :/.... I am one myself after all! And yes, I am venting. Do I not have the right to do that here? And YES, I am indeed concerned with the American education system. If one person can cheat their way through, so can many others. It angers me because I feel like it lowers the quality of my degree and of the education system in general.

Teachers in our Public schools do not know how to motivate their students . They are not trained in the most up to date methods.
My Son is Autistic he has always attended a private school which uses Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA) .The only documented technique to teach Autistic people. Teachers get payed even if they fail at their jobs.
I did very well in college and had some wonderful Professors. College in most cases does not prepare you to work in the real world . In the real world there are no grades. You do your job or you lose it.
I have family that attended a Ivy league college ; they lack common sense and are not any more intelligent than me. They attended this college because their family is wealthy.

@Glow I guess I’m saying that improper use of homophones is a symptom of a much larger societal apathy towards education and intellectualism.

But I’m still not convinced that the premise of your question is true: that university students can graduate with honors if they turn in work that’s full of these errors.

@philosopher – Hm. Sad but true. Many professors have lost motivation themselves, it seems. But yes, I figure that basically, you can cheat your way through college but not through your job. Despite that, I still dislike it. I can’t make people learn, as I said before, but I still don’t have to like it ):

@Mamradpivo – Ah Okay, gotcha. Oh, did you read my response to @johnpowell above? Basically, the person did not turn in papers with errors in it. They simply had some one else write it. No university would allow this to happen, but I feel like the best way to challenge this problem is to provide exit exams that test a students basic knowledge in Math, English, Sentence Structure, Science, etc. If they can not pass a certain section, they must retake a class in the subject area. Or something like that.

American has a long Nativist tradition that contains a huge dollop of anti-intellectualism. Otherwise how would you explain a patrician Brahman like George H. W. Bush pretending that he couldn’t wait to snack on some fried pork rinds. We don’t emulate what we don’t respect.

@Glow If you don’t think you are generalizing, then fine, I’ll drop it. I don’t view the ability of one person to cheat their way through as a fundamental flaw of the education system. In my opinion, there will always be those that cheat instead of doing the work themselves, this is unavoidable. Do you expect teachers to look over their students’ shoulders as they write a paper? If someone is willing to pay someone else to write their papers and then turn them in as their own work, there is probably little the teacher or school can do to stop it (some more alert teachers might catch them, but for every alert teacher, there is probably a student equally as good at lying). I don’t necessarily think this belittles the hard work that you put into your college career, or the value of your degree. As you go out into the real world, employers will be able to see that someone who has cheated their way through isn’t really as educated as they presented themselves. In comparison, they will see that you have honestly put in the work, and learned what you needed to learn. Anyways, that’s all I have to say on that matter, I don’t wish to debate it anymore.

As an aside: You do have the right to vent, and I’m sorry that this person cheating has upset you. Just remember the value of your hard work, and that this person will likely fail when it comes to employment. :)

In the spirit of the overall question, here are my views on the flaws of the American education system:

- Schools are underfunded, and teachers are underpaid.
– School curriculum has been modified to meet the needs of standardized tests, rather than what teachers need to teach.
– Standardized test results often mandate government spending, and have turned education into a competition.

@jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities – Oh, I have definitely thought of the things you have mentioned. That, oh this person will fail at their job/life/career, what have you, because they cheated in school. That my hard work will strengthen me and make me a better person than what these people are. But honestly, I don’t know what will happen to these kinds of people, since I have yet to test it, via observation I guess. I just have a gut feeling they will not do as poorly as they should be. I guess in a way, this is me venting more about humanity in general, because life outside of school is like this as well. All some one has to do is look and sound pretty and they succeed in obtaining a happy life while all those who work hard must suffer. But like I said before, I think the best way to combat this problem is not by watching the student write the paper, but just give exit exams that they must take in person, at a school. Write an essay, answer some problems, etc. I might be mistaken, but I believe Japan and South Korea do this.

But yeah, I am looking at this optimistically, just as you have pointed out, but I am still having a problem coming to grips with it… but I guess I should concern myself with my OWN education and not that of others… I still don’t like it though! :shakes fist: Q(>_<)

Meh. I put my standards waay too high anyway. Haha :P

BTW, this is always a discussion to me, not a debate :)

@Glow I too am in favor of exit exams. Good Idea!

I stink at Math and despite it I did well in Science even in college. My Husband excels in Math and was a Business Major.
I can memorize anything and do well on all test. My Husband tutored me through college Math. You could force me to take Math a billion times. I can not retain it . I forget it .Test prove nothing . They only prove that your a good test taker. The failure of school is teaching people how to use knowledge in the real world. They should spend less time testing and more time applying education to life.
When I was in school I questioned everything . When I was in Public school I was told just do it that way in Math Class. I can not retain something which I do not completely understand.
I still surprise people with how much Science I know.
When I was in my college writing class; my Professor said, your writing has improved , your grammar has improved . Your spelling makes me think your dyslexic . I was tested and it was inconclusive.
Most people can not excel at everything.
My Husband’s Nice passed the CPA test the first time. She worked throughout college.
I know that practical experiences is the best Teacher.
In NYC Public schools Autistic Children are abused every day because Teachers and Psychologist are not trained in ABA. The only method documented to work. They blame the children for their incompetence.

too much emphasis on test results and not enough emphasis on how to get there.

I would also ask, what is wrong with parenting? Schools can’t undo the damage inflicted by bad parents. Why do kids watch hours of trash commercials on tv or play mind-numbing computer games months after months. Toxic attention grabbers. What happened to having quality conversations and discussions at home for example over lunch or dinner? There are six-year old kids entering elementary school and they can’t even speak their native language.

And we need an image debate. As long as math and sciences are seen as uncool, more and more high-tech jobs will move to other continents where young folks are motivated to get all the luxuries we already have.

@mattbrowne – I 100% agree with you!!!

It would also help if we stopped telling young women, they aren’t good at and typically don’t like math & science.

I’m not aware of any people telling young women that they aren’t good at and typically don’t like math & science. In fact for many natural and applied sciences we are seeing gender parity. On the other hand disparity seems to exist in certain fields such as studying foreign language (more women than men) and engineering (more men than women). In my opinion there are several reasons for this, but we can definitely exclude lack of ability. Many men are good at learning foreign languages and likewise many women are good at studying engineering. So to me the explanation for the disparities must be about something else.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with parenting and upbringing, perceived societal norms as well as our primary and secondary education systems. However, I think there’s also the factor of interest and I know not everyone might agree with this. More neurobiological research could allow us to get to the bottom of this. I think far more young women should consider to study engineering, not only natural and applied sciences which they already do. But despite all of our best efforts 50% female engineers might not be the result of this. The same for 50% men studying foreign languages.

I’ve searched the web and I found some US data for the year 1997

Bachelors in “foreign languages and literature” 71% women and 29% men
Bachelors in “engineering fields” 19% women and 81% men

It’d be interesting to get data from other countries as well. I’ve also found an article trying to find solution for the reduction of disparity for engineering. It seems to require a subscription but the abstract is available:

“Despite tremendous advances by women in the natural and applied sciences, where in selective fields women have surpassed men in the earning of doctoral degrees for more nearly 20 years, female enrollment levels in engineering continue to be a fraction of male enrollment. Gender disparities of more than 60% persist in undergraduate engineering enrollments and have recently worsened. As American female civil engineering enrollment has been flat for over 25 years, efforts must be taken to understand this stasis. This paper focuses primarily on secondary education preparation in terms of both attitudes toward and enrollment levels in preengineering courses such as calculus, chemistry, and physics. Additional consideration is given to enrollment and achievement in advanced placement courses, as reflected in national examination rates. This paper concludes that secondary school participation and achievement in physics courses is a critical differential factor as one explanatory element of female engineering enrollment levels and provides specific recommendations as to how to increase interest, enrollment, and achievement in physics, including the segregation of entry-level engineering courses based on previous experience.”

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JPEPE3000135000003000095000001

The image debate we need applies to both men and women. As I said as long as math and sciences are seen as uncool, more and more high-tech jobs will move to other continents where young folks are motivated to get all the luxuries we already have.