What would you do if a friend was misusing government assistance?

Which is more crucial to you, your friendship, or your self-important disapproval?

being a snitch is worse than being a thief in my opinion.

We all sometimes live a bit beyond our means. Have you ever bought something that you knew you probably shouldn’t buy? It really is none of your business. Government assistance is pretty thorough as far as income reporting. The government knows what is coming in to her house and has decided to supplement her income with assistance. Move on, respect your friend for doing the best she can as a single mom instead of judging her.

I’d probably feel the same way as you. I don’t like to surround myself with people of questionable values or ethics. It’s like your condoning their behavior, or the new catch-phrase nowadays “enabling”. I don’t think I would bring her spending habits to the attention of any authorities though, although I wouldn’t call that “snitching”. “Snitching” is a term used by people to conveniently make you feel like an idiot for doing the right thing.

Maybe you should point this out to her, even though she may probably tell you to mind your own business or try to paint your own sense of morality in a bad light.

I don’t believe speaking up to a good friend by helping them see their errors in judgment makes you a bad person. To the contrary, it shows you want to help your friend make the best decisions in life. And she can pass those good judgments she learns from you (and others) onto her child. It’s a win-win IMO.

Why are you scrutinizing your friend’s purchases? Would you be doing that if you didn’t know that she was on government assistance?

I think you should distance yourself because your judgmnetal ways are not something she needs in her life right now.

@Siren Your values are unquestionable? May we know what they are, please? Up until now I was under the impression that only Jesus had those.

I feel that it’s none of your business. Sorry.

@Marina No, I probably wouldn’t be even thinking about what she was buying if she wasn’t on government assistance.

Hey, @pdworkin Let’s keep this civil, if you’re able to.

@pdworkin: Whereas you seem to enjoy disseminating bad moral advice, I’m trying to agree with someone’s good instincts. Just because you’ve lowered the bar on yourself doesn’t mean you should suggest others lower their own bars.

I can understand your feelings here. On one hand, she is your friend and it sounds like you don’t want to lose that friendship but on the other hand she is spending the money that you pay out on taxes! I am surprised that people are blaming you for being judgemental in this situation seeing as this is tax payers money she is spending on extravagent things and if everyone on benefits did this then there would be no point in working at all. To be honest, if she can afford things like that on benefits then I am wondering why I don’t get pregnant and leave my job, after all, the tax payer is going to pay for the luxury’s that I can’t afford as someone who works two jobs!!! However, are you sure that the money she is spending on these things is not money that she has been saving over time? Unless you know the situation 100% then I would say that there is nothing you can do. You’d feel bad if you reported her only to find that she puts a little bit of money away in a savings ccount each month to spend on nice things and who could blame her for that. I think, in this case, for the sake of the friendship you may have to turn a blind eye.

@pdworkin I asked a simple question about my feelings on an ethical and friendship issue and I’m interested in what people have to say. Please discontinue your abrasive responses and find some other area in which to take out your anger. Thank you.

lets keep in mind that everyone pays taxes, even if they try not to. chances are this friend is not taking any more than they already put in to the system in the first place.

You want to make an ethical issue out of your inability to keep your nose out of someone else’s business. Well, most of us have seen through that, and realize that you are not without sin, unless you are a godhead, which I doubt. You mistake disgust for anger.

@Likeradar: Well put. And very classy.

I know that aid is different in different states, but in NY if she is getting food stamps and insurance then she is not receiving cash assistance. Therefore she is spending the money she is earning that she has already reported to the government on what she wants to spend it on.

The decision to give birth if daunting. The decision to give birth without a partner to help raise the child is irresponsible. The decision to purposely have the government pay to raise the child is, in my opinion, socially irresponsible and should be soundly condemned.

Since you supported the birth, I see no reason to start criticize her now. The damage to her and the child has been done. Unless she is making fraudulent claims, I don’t think you are in a position to support her. If you want to do anything, find the baby’s father and insist that he support the child. If you feel the overwhelming need to report someone, report the father for not supporting his child.

@pdworkin I think the fact that she has come on here to talk about the way she is feeling rather than just act on impulse shows that she is not as bad a person as you are making her out to be. She seems genuinly torn here and, whether judgemental or not, we cn’t always help how we feel or what our gut instincts tell us. Maybe it is you who needs to be little less judgemental towards @Likeradar.

@Leanne1986 How do you explain her judging me, if she has not set herself up as a judge?

@Ron_C Artificial insemination, and extreme health issues that might prevent her from ever having a child and require organ transplants if she didn’t have one when she did. I didn’t mean this as a discussion about single parents, I was just giving background.

@Siren and @Leanne1986 Thank you.

Don’t we all make decisions about who we have as friends based partially on the way we feel about how they handle their lives and their moral compass? I really am torn here. I’m not one to write off friends easily, and I’m having a hard time figuring out my feelings and what’s even appropriate for me to be thinking and feeling.

I gotta go for a while- I’m not abandoning the discussion and I want to read it when I’m back in a few hours.

Why can’t people just answer the question without getting all nasty?

@jmah: Because some people take your answers personally, and it upsets them to have to take a look inward and question their own judgment. Hence the question “why are you judging me??” when the question was never posed to them, but at @Likeradar.

Just as @Likeradar wrote, I wouldn’t care if the purchases had been made by anyone with their own money but I am also a taxpayer and one who’s never qualified for any kind of assistance, one who’s gone without many comforts at times in order to budget and it really does irk me to see people on public assistance getting free medical care, free food, utilities discounts, subsidized housing, etc. but I wouldn’t bring it up to a friend because nothing positive could come from that conversation. I wouldn’t know for sure where the money for luxuries/gadget purchases came from and to find out then I’d have to ask which is something I won’t do, I loathe to talk about money with pretty much anyone.

@pdworkin I don’t even understand your question seeing as her comments to you have been in response to your comments to her which, I’m sorry, do sound angry. My point was we are all judgemental in some ways but talking about it here is better than acting on impulse and you are accusing her of being judgemental without realising how much so your comments sound. I may have agreed with some of what you had to say if only you had been a bit less aggressive about it.

@Likeradar are you serious? Was she really artificially inseminated and is now raising the kid on the public dole? If that is the case, I am appalled.

I don’t see where everyone is ENTITLED to have a child. If her health was that bad, the physician that performed the insemination should be brought up on charges, jailed and have his license permanently revoked. Just because you CAN do something, it doesn’t mean that you SHOULD!

@Leanne1986 You have a point about the agression. It’s unbecoming. But they pissed me off, and I should never post while angry.

@Ron_C Not that I think it’s relevant, but she could have died without pregnancy. Extreme “girly issues” that I won’t get into here. It wasn’t a case of immature “oooh… I wanna baby!”

ok, going now. For real.

@pdworkin Haha….I know that feeling!

“in the world nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes.” – Ben Franklin

every single purchase any of us have ever made comes with tax, everyone pays tax at some point in their life. just because someone is claiming money from the government now and not paying taxes this very moment does not mean they do not have a right to what they are claiming.

if none of us are supposed to claim any kind of welfare ever, why the hell are we paying taxes in the first place? i thought the whole reason i pay tax now is because one day i may need help.

this person still has their entire life ahead of them, and a lot of life already before them. so you cant really say anything about them and what they pay and what they took until they day they die and a tally can be made to see if they checked out in the red or not.

all of you here, every single last one of you, no matter how rich you are, keep in mind you may very well still end up on welfare at some point in your life. when you do, do you want to be called a leech?

@Likeradar having a baby to save your life, that’s a new one on me. My wife’s a maternity nurse, I’ll have to ask about that.

Of course there is the moral issue of using a kid as a life-preserver. When you have a kid you have to think about the kid’s future and your only role is to stay around long enough for the kid to move out on his own. If her health was and is that precarious, then she never should have gotten pregnant.

Having grown up as a kid on welfare, I have a very hard time believing that she could buy such luxuries when welfare is her only income. I mean, heck, we ate potatoes and ramen and government cheese because that’s all we could afford, and I’ll be very surprised if the amount of assistance is now such that she can buy ipods willy-nilly.

If she was artificially inseminated (by a medical institution, not a friend who’s a guy), she must have afforded that somehow, too. I don’t know her and her situation, but the amount of money passing through her hands is strange for someone living only on government help.

Point out the consequences of unethical behavior, like remorse which can hit people. Even many years later.

I am thinking you don’t know the whole story, and are working off of assumptions. If she has undisclosed income, and is lying on what she is reporting as income, I have to question how honest she is in other areas of her life as well, and how prone she is to use people for her own gains, if she is using the welfare system as you allege.

The question then becomes, “Why do I want to be friends with a person who is dishonest?” Which leads me to ask, if you overlook dishonesty and self-service in others, are you dishonest and self-serving as well? If you cannot condone what she is doing, distance yourself from the relationship.

@Likeradar ”...she could have died without pregnancy…”
Do you mean she could have died anyway, w/out pregnancy, or that the pregnancy was life-saving somehow?

The amount of money she gets in assistance can’t be enough to afford a whole lot of luxuries. Is someone else subsidizing her rent or other expenses? If she is just really good at being frugal to afford a few luxuries on a fixed income then it;s none of your business. If her child is being deprived because of her luxuries, or she has other sources of income that she is not telling the government about, then…. that’s another story.

Okay, I have some questions…

—She does not work at all? Has she never worked a day in her life? Never contributed to paying taxes ever?
—Assuming she has absolutely no income, does she have healthcare through the state..for herself? Most states have regulations that no matter what, a child will be covered with Medicaid or a low cost insurance through the state (usually called CHIP or some form of it)
It’s very hard for an adult to get health insurance through the state, unless they are disabled (I’ve read some of the other posts, and she may be disabled but I don’t know)
Is she receiving SSI, if disabled? Can she physically work?
Also, if she’s in the same state as you, I’m trying to look up if there’s a food stamp limit. I know in my state (PA) we have a limit for Cash Assistance…you get 5 years total (doesn’t have to be consecutive.) So, let’s say you have an emergency situation, both partners laid off..three kids to pay. You still only get 5 years of help total. It’s not meant to be a permanent fix.
But, here are the requirements in your state for food stamps http://www.cdhs.state.co.us/fap/CanIGetFoodAssistance.htm So, even if she did have income, paying childcare, rent..etc, she might qualify.

And like @laureth said, I have a hard time believing someone on food stamps could afford such things. It’s one thing if just the baby were on Medicaid…that’s usually not too hard to qualify for honestly. But for how little of an income you need, you really have no disposable income and it’s usually quite temporary as you need to requalify for food stamps every six months (so they can scrutinize everything you own)
Also, people seem to think she’s buying these things with taxpayer money?? But you can only spend food stamps on food..not even toiletries at the grocery store.

So, is she lying about her income? Is that the issue? You haven’t mentioned anything about the problem, other than she is buying things that you think someone shouldn’t be able to afford.

Also just to add, we still use our Access Card, which is food stamps in my state. But, my husband has a well paying job now. We were very frugal with our food stamp money for fear of it happening all over. We still have a lot left on the card, and even though our benefits ran out..they never take money back off a card. We were given the money when we qualified so they just don’t take it back. We can use it all up. So, I’m sure to people seeing us use a food stamp card, and then going and buying other things is quite and odd sight. There can always be extenuating circumstances that you are just unaware of. Just saying.

You can work, or have income and still qualify for government assistance, if you don’t go over the states income requirements. In my state you can anyways.

I would not report her, for the sheer fact, that you do not know where her income is coming from, that she is receiving. Someone could be giving it to her, someone could be giving her, and her children gifts, and she in return is saying she purchased them herself, out of pride. There could be many reasons why she has those things.

Until you have actual facts, and not assumptions, then I would listen to your one hand (quoting you,) that is telling you, that her financial choices are none of your business, although you are a tax-payer.

By the way, I know you may not like this comment, but a “true friend,” wouldn’t even think about trying to hurt their friend, in reporting them. Especially when all you have are assumptions. You might want to look at your own morals and values, before trying to point someone else’s wrongs out.

I agree that it is VERY bizarre for the state to be providing enough support for her to buy electronics and jewelry. Welfare is generally only enough to get by on. This is so strange that I think the most likely explanation is that you are in fact misinformed about her financial situation, and you are probably judging unfairly. :(

I have seen a couple of my friends take advantage of the government in similar ways—receiving unemployment payments while working under the table, or not reporting all of their income on their taxes. I think all of these abuses of the system are dishonest, and in some cases I have told my friends what I think, and at least one of them has changed her behavior because of it. I just pointed out the facts and she agreed with me. No need to be a jerk about it.

How do you know she bought these things for herself? She may have people around her who support her and give her those things as gifts.

My personal definition of a friend is someone with whom I can be totally honest about ANYTHING and expect the same in return.

So, I would speak with her about what I were observing about her situation.

Perhaps she will change her choices or perhaps there is more to the story than even YOU may be aware.

IF she truly is a friend that should be the first step. But my criteria of who qualifies to be regarded by me as a friend is admittedly higher than average.

That’s a judgement only you can make. But to drop her or distance yourself from her without so much as a conversation about what is bothering you is troubling to me. Especially since you may be lacking adequate info to make judgments like that at this point.

She should be stopped at once! Our tax dollars rightly belong to those who earned them and deserve them. No frivolous spending for welware moms while some of the financial geniuses who brought our nation to the brink of ruin and destroyed the lives of thousands of tax-paying citizens have received bonuses of just tens of millions of tax dollars.

@everyone Thanks for your responses, especially @jmah, @Siren, @Leanne1986, @jamielynn2328, @hungryhungryhortence, @casheroo, and everyone else who stated an opinion without being rude.
I don’t ask questions on here expecting everyone to agree with me, to back up my way of thinking or to pat me on the head and tell me I’m always right. But I do expect people with differing points of view to express them in a reasonable manner, and I find it both sad and laughable that some adults on here are unable to do so.

I agree that it largely isn’t my business. But the types of people I chose to be friends with is my business. Thank you to those of you who understood the question, whether or not you have a different view or would have different feelings about the situation.

@Likeradar ; Has the discussion helped you to clarify your opinion? If so, where has it landed? I got from the question that your feelings were conflicted.

@Likeradar I don’t mean this to be mean, I think it is a bit judgemental on your part. You also might not know the whole story. Maybe she does need that assistance to survive. Everyone should be able to get themselves luxuries sometimes, like ipods and dvd’s. As far as the expensive piece of jewelry, how do you know that someone else didn’t buy it for her or where the $ came from. If she has some extra income that people don’t know about to help her provide some extra good things for her and her baby I think that is her business.
You are right that it is your business to choose who you want to be friends with. Are you sure that you would be making the right decision though to abandon the friendship when what it sounds like to me all she is doing is providing for her and her baby, and some extras that I think everyone should be able to do for their families ?

I would have a harder time with someone choosing artificial insemination and then expecting the state to pick up the tab for raising the child. It sounds like Octomom syndrome, and I can understand why someone like that would make your stomach turn a little bit.

(haven’t read other answers yet)

I do not think I would turn her in. The thing is she has a one year old and I’m guessing she needs the assistance? So if you “tattle” on her then her baby may not get what it needs or have the option at least of getting what it needs. The Department of Human Services is not exactly kind about these things. Also you may consider that every person deserves to get a little something for themself every once in awhile. In my book that does not include expensive jewelry especially if friend is going around saying the ‘baby’ got it for her.

I think instead of turning her in I’d probably just make my feelings know (if appropriate) and perhaps end the friendship.

Personally I don’t mind paying taxes especially when they go to social services. Yes I understand that sometimes it is misused but I would rather have that help available to people than not. Perhaps a good position would be to advocate that the DHS have some educational classes on how to properly budget and spend money etc.. Things to solve the problem.

((of course this is all assuming that she is in fact making poor use of government money and not having these things given to her or her income supplemented in some other legit way))

@Likeradar It amuses me how people can come down on you for having genuine concerns. What many fail to see is that not only is she stealing from welfare she is stealing from people who truly need it. I had a friend who had 4 kids and her husband left her. She had to go from a stay at home mom to working 2 jobs and living in a trailer to support her 4 kids. The gov’t only made her husband pay 200 dollars a month for 4 children. Ever tried to raise 4 kids on 200 dollars? Anyhow, she became very ill and lost one job and social services told her that she would have to stop working her job and get rid of her car (the only thing left that she owned from her marriage) for them to assist her. They told her they only have a certain amount of money to give and that they have to make sure she deservered it. Meanwhile almost everything she had was given to her and the kids by local charities. She had no electronics or toys or expensive gadgets or jewelry. She sold all her jewelry (from her marriage) just to make end meat. If she had sold that car she wouldn’t be able to go to work. Anyhow. For those who think a little stealing doesn’t hurt anyone. It does. If the system wasn’t tapped with so many theives than there would be more money for the ones who need it the most.

@Likeradar, finally and answer that makes sense. Good work!

What’s funny is that when I was growing up on welfare, people hated us because we didn’t have anything nice – no designer clothes, no car at all, no trips. And now, people hate on the poor for having nice things. :) I’m not saying you’re out of line, @Likeradar, I’m just savoring the irony.

Some people see sense, others see smarm.

@pdworkin smarm ?

@Judi (and @redpowerlady) Yeah, I am conflicted. There really wasn’t a final decision to be made. I never considered calling any type of authority, and I was never considering deleting her from my life all together. The question really was simple – I wanted to know how other people would feel and what other people would do.

@Likeradar I am sorry I misunderstood. I would if you feel strongly enough about it tell your friend how you feel about what she is doing. If you feel like it isn’t worth it, I would let it be

@laureth GA!

@Likeradar Sorry if I answered as if I was saying what you should do. That was just kinda my way of saying what I would do/think/feel. I can see how it would be bothersome and it is a good question.

@RedPowerLady It’s cool, I just wanted to let you and whoever else know that I have no intention of trying to turn her in or anything.

@Likeradar You say you want to know how people would feel and what they would do. 1.For me I think it would depend on how I felt about the person and what my motives would be.
2.If I didn’t like the person and told because I wanted them to suffer than no. But I would tell them they are wrong.
3. If I am really a good friend with them and felt that they are otherwise a good person, than I would inquire about the other purchases. If they admit or I sense they are lying about how they got all those things, than I would tell them I can’t continue being friends with them and why and let them know that. I will not turn them in because of our friendship.
4. If its a stranger, than I would turn them in a heart beat.

Falsely earnest, smug, or ingratiating
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smarmy

If you have proof that the person is defrauding the system, then report. If not then move on.