Should students use Fluther as a sourse for ideas for school projects and papers?

Mostly because the information that the students are asking for can be easily found on places like wikipedia or google. To many Flutherites, this connotes an intellectual laziness, something that the community here in general dislikes.

Help, and creative brainstorming are one thing. Doing the work (especially in cases of the most basic research) for them is another.

There’s a difference in asking for someone to do your research/work/assignment for you and asking for a clarification, place to start or idea to go from.

I believe there is a difference between asking a geometry question and looking for an answer here, rather than someone just asking for a suggestion for a school project. asking for suggestions is okay with me. but, you should do your own homework. i did.

I think Fluther is a great place to brainstorm and get topic ideas for research projects or occasionally help in understanding a specific quotation. I see it as somewhat analogous to the role I play as a reference librarian at a college. We are not here, however, to do students’ work for them. It’s sometimes a fine line, but Jellies seem to always have a sense of where to draw it!

I think we should help with questions here and there, but not be a source of laziness on their part. Every answer should be accompanied with copious explanations, so it may serve as an example for the next question and we will only have to answer it once. I have no problem with helping students, because sometimes an explanation from a third party can be helpful, but once enough information has been given to complete one question, the others should not be answered simply because they shouldn’t have to be.

If they are looking for ideas, a starting point, a line of argument to use, I have no objection. They will have to do their own research though. Even a specific question in math, physics, etc, I’m glad to give pointers on how to approach the problem, but I’ll not give them the answer.
On history questions, I admit getting a bit carried away. I try to emphasize that history goes much further than dates, places and names. There is the why and the alternatives that were presented at the time. When a historical figure made a certain decision, what information was available to him? I also make it clear that my analysis of a situation is only my opinion and others should seek out the source material and form their own conclusions.

Okay, so it is okay to offer ideas or to suggest sources. But giving specific facts or answers to problems should be left to the student? What about methodology? Would you explain how to work out a problem or suggest how to organize a paper for a student (like a tutor might) or is that ‘intelectually lazy’?

@stump It all depends. Has the student really searched his best before coming to ask us? Has he repeatedly tried to solve the problem using a certain methodology, failing every single time? If so, then I’d be very willing to give pointers or hints, assuming I know the answer myself. I would be reluctant to give the full answer, as I think that it’s more important that the student arrives at the answer himself.

That being said, there are many times when I have been stumped by a question, and searched for the whole answer (and of course, finding it), before finally understanding how and why the question works the way it does, thus enabling me to correctly answer any other similar questions without much difficulty.

I guess at the end, it all depends on the student’s attitude towards learning. I have no idea for sure what that is, so as a total stranger on the net I would prefer to err on the side of caution.

If I were still in school I would have gotten help from fluther…

But not demand answers.

I had an intro level geography professor who gave “map quizzes”. You got a blank map and a list of cities, countries, and physical features (mountain ranges, water bodies, major deserts, plateaus). Then you had to sketch the features on the map and label them. Basically you had to memorize a fairly detailed map of Asia to get through the map quizzes. At the start of the semester he gave out a list of place names that would be on the quizzes and the names of a couple of atlases. That was it. You went to the atlases, found the places, made your own study map, and studied it. Of course place name spellings change over time, especially in Asia where language preferences and preferred romanization systems change periodically. So you might not find them all. If you asked him in class he would say come to my office hours. In office hours he would give you some other atlas titles to try. That’s it. He never told anyone where anyplace was. This was a great way to learn. The act of going out and finding the information and making the study map really aided the actually learning of the places and the map. If Fluther had existed then, and I had gone on and asked where is the Deccan Plateau? and someone told me, it would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. If you don’t do the work, you don’t learn the material.

So we should try to be the good professor, but not the Atlas.

@stump Something like that.

When they show no evidence whatsoever of having looked for the information themselves, they’ll be told that they should. When they’re bossy and demanding in their question and replies (“I need the answer fast” is the nicest of the demands), they’ll get what they have coming. When anyone can type the subject of the question into Google and come up with 1,136 results, they’ll be told to do their own research.

However, questions like “What’s a more creative way I can do this project” and other things where people are actually looking for help will be treated better because they are looking for help and not for their work to be done for them. I think we all recognize the fundamental difference.

You can’t always find answers on Google. And Wikipedia can be wrong. So just help students out if you csn answer their questions.

@babygirlbubbles But students are supposed to be learning to use library resources to finish their projects. Yes, Wikipedia can be wrong, but so can Fluther. Heck, I give wrong answers all the time. But here’s how to use Wikipedia:

1. Search for your topic.
2. Read the overview and find the specific information you need.
3. Click on the reference links and go to the source information for the specific information you need. Read and cite from the source rather than from Wikipedia.

Wikipedia really works very well as an index of sources instead of as a source in itself.

Sometimes students do pose some really interesting questions about assignments that they are having problems with, that actually are really good general topic questions, and hard to find with average search skills. For example, there was a question about Japanese citizens in Canada during WWII that posted earlier in 2009. The poster had done research, needed more, and was unsure how to find it.

@babygirlbubbles If people bother to search some and can’t figure it out; they’ll receive help. If they don’t, they don’t deserve it.

I am one of those who vigorously object to someone’s simply using fluther as a way to get homework assignments done. But that does not mean there’s no such thing as a good homework question.

If somebody posts a question such as “What were three influences on the work of Charles Dickens? Explain and give examples,” they are not going to get any help from me. Why should I earn a grade for somebody who hasn’t bothered to do the work? This is a slacker who is not asking for help with the work. He is asking to have it done for him.

And the reason I am in a position to answer the question is that I did do my own work when I was in school.

But if somebody posts a question that says “I’m having a hard time getting whether Magwitch is a good guy or a bad guy in Great Expectations. I like him in some parts of the book, and in other parts I don’t. Can you help me see what kind of character he is supposed to be?” I would gladly offer some questions and suggestions that would help this student sort out what Dickens is doing with this character and what kinds of feelings he intends to create in the reader.

Do you see the difference?

It’s also worth bearing in mind that teachers teach the material they expect students to grasp, and they give assignments that they believe students to be capable of doing. They do not give assignments that can be done only if several dozen well-educated adults with college degrees, careers in specialized fields, and a quantity of life experience step in and rescue the student the night before the paper is due.

I don’t see why people shouldn’t, but I wouldn’t. If I came on to fluther to ask for help with homework I’d probably just spend hours on here doing something else and forget about the homework.