Is the health care reform bill in the US dead?

The house should just pass the Senate bill.

I don’t think it is dead yet. There is a chance that a Republican will cross over. Since a bill has already passed the House and the Senate, and it is just a matter of compromise on the versions.

No… Because what the Republicans don’t want to do, which they will be if this dies, is to appear that they care more for beating the Democrats than the people they serve. While this is true, they try to keep up the appearance that they give a flying crap about the people that put them in office. There are far too many people who really, really need this to be ignored again. So, despite all the posturing, they’re not really against it, they’re just making a loud noise so when they do give in and do the right thing, they appear to be great, magnanimous compromisers instead of the obstructionist assholes they really are.

Hopefully. My pre-existing condition of congenital foot problems is keeping me from coverage for no good reason. I’m all for this passing ASAP and really think they’re just playing the game rather than actually being serious about harming millions of people just because they want to play politics. I like to think even the politicians can’t be that depraved.

Real death panel members, people who cause death and irreparable harm to millions by withholding coverage, thy alternate name is Republican.

The state of Massachusetts requires 10 days after the election to insure all absentee ballots have been counted. Officials then have 5 days to certify the election results. Assuming the Senate will not seat the new Senator before the election is certified (and why would they) it will be at least 15 days before he is seated. It is very likely at this point that the House will pass the Senate version before that. What this has really done is insure that the Senate version will pass with less debate and less chance for further amendment.

@avvooooooo I think that’s wishful thinking. At this point the republicans have nothing to lose by obstructing the health care bill, and given the power they would gladly prevent it from passing.

It may not be dead, but, with the new senator in Mass. already promising to vote against it (taking its filibuster proof status away) it is certainly in trouble.

It will likely rear it’s ugly bastard head a few times as it it hopefully stabbed repeatedly until it is done with forever and cast into the shadows for eternity.

Not dead but definitely in ICU. What the health care plan needs is a better health care plan than we older folks.

Isn’t this the third time this question has been asked with twenty four hours?

The latest news suggests that I may be wrong on this, with Reid saying he will seat Brown. It’s expected that the Republicans will say this election was about health care, but it’s stupid for the Democrats to believe it is and scrap this thing.

Well, maybe they’ll pay attention and realize that all these compromises aren’t winning any Republican votes or much public approval and pass the reform we really need: universal single payer health insurance.

I sincerely hope its dead. the majority of the people did not want it. maybe, just maybe the voice of the people will be heard with the election of Senator Brown. now, if we can only hold the vote off for a few days on the healthcare package.

@john65pennington “the majority of the people did not want it”

And you’re getting your statistics where? Republican propaganda? You don’t say!

The majority of Americans favor some kind of health care reform. They probably don’t favor a mandate to buy health insurance, particularly without a public option to balance it. But the insurance companies who give millions to both parties won’t end coverage caps and pre-existing conditions without a mandate and they don’t want a public option either. It goes without saying that they don’t want single payer, but I’m not sure single payer is as unpopular with the general public as everyone in Washington receiving checks from the insurance industry wants us to believe.

@Snarp, the American public is infinitely mutable. What matters is the Senators who are or are not going to vote for it and, unfortunately, some of them are bought and paid for.

This is simply the political reality. It’s the landscape in which we have to work. Perhaps later we can unseat the blue dogs with honest progressives but right now, the bill we have is the best we can get and it’s actually does a lot of good.

@Qingu Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take what I can get, but if the debate is to continue indefinitely, then I see no reason not to bring single payer (and definitely the public option) back to the table.

The debate had better not continue indefinitely.

And if it does, what 60 senators are going to vote for it? It’s not going to happen. Even if we win 5 more seats in the 2010 elections it’s not going to happen.

“It’s dead, Jim.” – Dr. McCoy

The only chance is for the House to pass the Senate bill verbatim and try to fix it later. I don’t think they’ll do it. They’re too fractured politically and too afraid for their jobs to piss off their constituents any more. Any further work to find a bill that would pass both houses without a 60th vote to break the filibuster would take months of effort. They have already spent so much time on it, and so little (as the public perceives) on the economy and jobs that it would be suicide for them to keep trying at this point.

@IchtheosaurusRex, I think you underestimate how important passing this bill is to the Democratic caucus.

@Qingu I hope you’re right. But Obama is apparently telling congress not to rush it. As far as I’m concerned the house should vote for the Senate bill right now and send it to the big O’s desk.

The majority of American do want a health care system, but they don’t want to pay for it, and they don’t want a corupt government administering it.

@YARNLADY I’ll concede that point. I’m a white male, who’ll soon be considered middle-class, when the job training ends and I begin as a full employee. There isn’t real coverage for me that I won’t need to pay out my ass in conjunction with, and I’ll still be paying for other peoples health care And on top of that I refuse any healthcare system run by any government. It will quickly become a convoluted shit pile with no checks and balance that Congress wil never bother to audit it. Never mind the fact that the supposed “need” for healthcare can be, in a very large part, blamed on the government not regulating the insurance monopolies which allowed the healthcare costs and what hospitals think they can charge climb through the roof.

@Qingu , I don’t concur with that at all. If it was important to them, they would have had it on Obama’s desk in December. The fact that you’re still seeing pushback from the House in the face of certain defeat is definitive proof of that. They’re worried about losing in November, so they’re backpedaling on it. They’re hoping that voters will forget about it between now and then if they can score some points on financial reform or jobs.

Which is ultimately a losing strategy. The bloodbath in 1994 was the result of a massive systemic failure on a healthcare reform initiative. Deja Vu. All the Republicans have to do is stall and filibuster everything the Dems advance for the next 7 months and ride in on another wave of public rage. If it means 15% unemployment, so what? They don’t care. They want their power back.

@Anon_Jihad, sounds like you ought to be a big fan of the senate bill then. No government-run health care, just heavy regulation for the insurance industry and money to help poor people pay for it.

I ultimately blame this debacle on the American people, who are too lazy or ignorant to look at the nuance of the bill in question and prefer to talk about scary bills that don’t exist on Fox News or in angry liberal blogs.

@Qingu If someone frees the market instead of allowing insurance companies to present themselves as the only option to the people, as this middleman hows allowed hospitals to drive up charges to absurd levels, I mean last time I went to the ER for a busted ankle I thought might be broke, I got a doctor to feel it, assure me it was sprained, I was given crutches and an aircast. Given a script for 800mg ibuprofen and tossed out the door, in and out, no x-rays, and I got a two grand bill. It’s ludicrous, the medical industry seems to be in cahoots with Insurance companies, and that’s the kind of bullshit the government needs to be fixing, not letting them get away with and trying to make a program that works around it.

@Anon_Jihad, I don’t care about your anecdote or your feeling that “the medical industry seems to be in cahoots with insurance companies.”

That is not an argument. That is not interacting with this bill. You don’t even seem to be aware of what is in this bill, or how it actually does fix the way insurance companies operate, or its attempts to streamline medical care across the board. Or the way it does “free the market’ with insurance exchanges and the introduction of nonprofit entities.

And your bad experience at the ER is not what the bill is fundamentally trying to fix. The fundamental purpose of the bill is to help the 50 millions who cannot afford health care, or are prevented from getting health care by insurance companies, to do so. And it does that.

Do you want to actually engage in a discussion about the real health care bill, and how it addresses your complains? Or are you just interested in complaining?

@Qingu I have been more than engaged in this and the similar discussion. Our views differ and I believe you may see my views as ignorant. Neither bill in any way allows the free market to fix anything, no do they give any lee-way to even try. It still protects the Insurance cartels and does nothing to drive down the out of control price problems which have caused this illusion that healthcare is needed. We don’t need less expensive coverage, we need less expensive care.

Nevermind that an increase in taxes will help no one, and make the count of those that can’t afford healthcare higher, forcing many who should be able to purchase their own care to rely on the government options.

@Anon_Jihad, you’re entitled to your own view but not your own facts.

• Neither bill in any way allows the free market to fix anything, no do they give any lee-way to even try.
The insurance exchanges will provide significantly more competition and transparency. What do you think a free market is?

• It still protects the Insurance cartels
By regulating the hell out of them?

• and does nothing to drive down the out of control price problems which have caused this illusion that healthcare is needed.
You think it is an “illusion” that health care is needed?

I agree that the bill does not sufficiently address costs—a public option would have helped—but that is not why health reform is needed. It’s needed because 50 million Americans do not have access to medical care outside an emergency room visit.

• We don’t need less expensive coverage, we need less expensive care.
This makes no sense. Millions Americans can’t afford coverage.

We also need less expensive care and the bill does several things to address that as well.

Again, you have shown zero familiarity with the bill, or how it addresses your complaints. You appear to just be reciting talking points. That’s a textbook definition of ignorance.

@Qingu
“You think it is an “illusion” that health care is needed?”
~That’s exactly what I’ve been arguing. Healthcare Reform as it is in the bills that have been going through Congress would treating symptoms of a disease it will prevent from actually being cured. In effect keeping the disease alive, though in stasis until it requires another dose of medicine.

“Millions Americans can’t afford coverage”
~No friggin’ shit. Instead of spoon feeding everyone some Socialism, why don’t we instead toss the poor excuses for “cures” out the window and address the actual problem that got us to the point where we believed Healthcare Reform was necessary? The outrages charges hospitals charge due their ability to hide from the voting power of the dollar.

I’m familiar with the bills, I’m not arguing the points in them because I’m opposed to them entirely, I’m saying they are the wrong path, I’m opposed to taking the lesser of some odd evils if an actual good choice can be made with some patience.

@Anon_Jihad I now have absolutely no earthly idea what you are talking about.

Let me get this straight.

Millions of Americans cannot afford health care coverage—not a problem.

Millions of Americans are sick and so no insurance company will cover them—not a problem.

Millions of Americans have coverage, but when they actually get sick their insurance either prices them out of coverage or just drops them entirely—not a problem.

The real problem is the “poor excuses fur ailments”?

What the fuck does that even mean?

@Qingu “The real problem is the “poor excuses fur ailments”?”
~That was a typo on my part and I do believe I fixed it.

“Millions of Americans cannot afford health care coverage—not a problem.”
~Not that they cannot afford coverage per se, as much as it that they cannot afford the actual healthcare. So it’s a big problem.

“Millions of Americans are sick and so no insurance company will cover them—not a problem.”
Well as I see it:
“Millions of Americans are sick”
~Huge fucking problem
“no insurance company will cover them—not a problem.”
~Yes that I do believe.

“Millions of Americans have coverage, but when they actually get sick their insurance either prices them out of coverage or just drops them entirely—not a problem.”
~That’s absolutely a problem, which is why we need regulations over the health insurance cartels and price fixing! I’m saying the government has failed to regulate the companies as they are supposed, or are anti-trust laws only for corporations that liberals don’t like? I forgot Microsoft is the enemy but everyone else just wants to help!

The bill contains the regulations that you so desire.

I don’t know what you mean by “price fixing.” It outlaws rescision. It supplies subsidies so people can afford coverage.

And I would like to regulate the insurance industry from an anti-trust perspective too. I am not sure that’s legally possible. And it is absurd to say liberals like Microsoft less than insurance companies.

@Qingu – I was full of shit, and I am very happy to admit it now! But I’ll give the credit to Big O for stepping up to the plate and knocking it over the fence. Let’s see what he can do now that he’s notched himself a win – a big one.