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Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

Is it common for people to defend their own positions (that they never felt the need to defend previously) when told of another person's different way of being?

Asked by Simone_De_Beauvoir (39062points) January 22nd, 2010

Of all my ‘non-normative’ identities let’s choose three: gender non-conformant, atheist, vegetarian…these are nothing I automatically discuss with people – just usually something I mention at random…the discussion that follows usually centers around why their own gender identity is what it is (with some random studies cited), religious beliefs or meat-eating are acceptable…I always wonder why that’s necessary…it’s not as if I question their positions but they automatically question mine and theirs by way of having to defend themselves…

Do you have this knee-jerk reaction? Does this kind of back and forth (not at all hostile, actually) have a purpose? Is it necessary for people, on a daily basis, to meet others (like myself) who have different ideas so that by opposing their ideas to mine, they can legitimize their life choices? Generally speaking, I figure, adults know what they’re all about and have chosen what they’ve chosen for all the right reasons…yet when I hear them go off on all sorts of tangents that were uncalled for, I am no longer sure that they really know what’s right for them…

Do you ever encounter these situations? I am not looking to be offensive or to start debates with these people (who are usually colleagues) but sometimes I just want to steer the conversation back to where we were (not related to these topics)...I am just not sure where this kind of uncalled for defensiveness comes from…so help me out

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44 Answers

DrBill's avatar

insecure people often react when their beliefs are questioned, even by themselves

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@DrBill no, these aren’t insecure people, though – I certainly don’t perceive them to be so…besides there can’t be that many insecure people around me..and you’d be right if I was questioning their beliefs…but I never do that in the course of the day…I mean, I have to work, lol

dpworkin's avatar

Sometimes people just want to state or restate their own identity when they see someone else doing the same.

DominicX's avatar

As far as I’m concerned, it comes from insecurity. It comes from a weakness they feel in their own beliefs. To them, someone who opposes them is a threat. It’s a complete overreaction, but that’s how they view it. I also believe they are afraid that because you have a differing view, you will judge them negatively and so they immediately put up the defensive in case that would happen, which obviously, it doesn’t. Additionally, I think there is a deeper fear that they have it wrong, that your beliefs and such would be better for them, but they don’t want to have to consider that. Of course that’s not necessarily true at all. But the way they react kind of indicates that to me. If they were secure in their beliefs, they wouldn’t need to react that way.

As for me, I don’t tend to do that. Maybe I have in the past, but I really don’t tend to do that unless someone makes a false claim about one of my beliefs or attacks it, even slightly. I tend to not like letting attacks like that go. But other than that, I don’t. I’m secure in my beliefs; I don’t need to feel like I’m constantly on the defensive side.

For example, a girl and I were once talking about religion; she shared that she was not religious and of course, I don’t need to state my beliefs and such at that point. But then she said that Catholics are against gay people and that’s when I spoke up with “well, actually, I’m Catholic and…”. I don’t want people believing falsehoods, now.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@pdworkin totally understandable but whey then also go into the reasons why they have that identity – I mean I didn’t present my reasons for being whatever, why are you presenting yours? I mean I always feel as if I’m obligated to listen to all these explanations because I am the ‘abnormal’ one and they think it’s okay to talk about all of this like I’m not even there

gemiwing's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Could you give a specific example of a conversation? Are they saying this to you or around you to others?

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

I find that I’ve grown much more accepting of other peoples ways of being, and less inclined to defend my own point of view on many issues. Perhaps depression has made me much less confrontational recently. Even before the depression I was evolving much more into a “live and let live” mindset.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@gemiwing definitely – example: it’s lunch time at work…
co worker: Simone, want some chicken? you should eat it, it’s Indian and yummy…and all you ever eat is your salad…it isn’t like you’re a vegetarian is it?
Simone: yes I am and I love my salad
Co-worker: oh I wouldn’t ever know what to eat..I love me some meat and besides I might not get whatever nutrients if I don’t eat meat and it’s better for children and in general and etc. etc. etc.
Simone: ...okay
Co-worker; well are you doing it for religious reasons or because you’re a feminist? ‘cause I heard many feminists are vegetarian and you always encourage women to speak for themselves…you’re a feminist right?
Simone: ...uhh…wait…hold on…

and then my head explodes

tinyfaery's avatar

I think you already have the answer to this question. Yes, people love to legitimize their own lives. Yes, people go off on tangents and talk about themselves. Yes, people are insecure and feel the need to prove themselves to themselves, so to speak. You pretty much summed it up in the details.

I don’t really converse like that with most of the people I know. I don’t spend a lot of time with my coworkers, so our interactions are typically polite and superficial. As far as my friends and family, well we all know each other so there’s not much to discuss when it comes to our opinions. We all know our common ground.

On occasion, when I do encounter this, I just use a little technique called ignore and redirect. Do not react to what the other person is saying emotionally, verbally or in any apparent manner; think blank stare. Then bring up something totally random, but that gives them a chance to continue talking about themselves. It works.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@tinyfaery I still think I am missing something – I know, sometimes, I make conclusions that are far-fetched..I wanted people, other people, to tell me why…maybe I’m completely off…maybe this is a normal way of interaction…it’s not exactly that I’m bothered by this…but I realize that the fact that I’m no longer bothered is an issue..why am I so used to people using me as a soundboard?

casheroo's avatar

The only one that stands out to me is vegetarian…usually when people are talking about it, they preach and act as if they are better people because of it (I avoid religious talk almost at all cost, because it usually ends up with me saying things that upset someone) I usually bite my tongue when it comes to people acting better than me for personal choices.
I never go into things looking for a fight…I know of people who do the things you say in your original post. I think they just feel the need to justify themselves. Not sure exactly why.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@casheroo well do you think that because of my mentioning ‘unpopular’ identities they think I am inviting them to debate?

Austinlad's avatar

More than common… it’s human nature. We each see the world through a unique prism—a prism formed by influences including family, friends, school and places of worship, where we grew up, and on and on.). I believe “this” because it’s what I learned or osmosed growing up; you believe “that” because it’s what you learned, and if we’re able to compromise or simply agree to disagree, we argue. Which of us is right? Most of the time, it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter. But arguments between the “This-ers” and the “That-ers” cause wars, divorce, revolts, religious intolerance, arms races, torture, and on and on.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Austinlad so it’s necessary to do this because we’re human?

tinyfaery's avatar

If you don’t like it, stop it. You don’t need to justify your choices to people have no impact on your life whatsoever. If they ask you a question, use the technique.

In your scenario:

Simone, want some chicken? you should eat it, it’s Indian and yummy…and all you ever eat is your salad…it isn’t like you’re a vegetarian is it?

Simone: yes I am and I love my salad Just say yes.

Co-worker: oh I wouldn’t ever know what to eat..I love me some meat and besides I might not get whatever nutrients if I don’t eat meat and it’s better for children and in general and etc. etc. etc.

Simone: ...okay Do not respond. Do not look at the person. Continue to eat. She didn’t ask you a question so there is no need to say a thing.

Co-worker; well are you doing it for religious reasons or because you’re a feminist? ‘cause I heard many feminists are vegetarian and you always encourage women to speak for themselves…you’re a feminist right?

Simone: ...uhh…wait…hold on… No need to defend. No need to justify. No need to explain. Say something like, “so, you know how to make Indian food?” or ask another question that you know this person would like to talk about. And of course, do it all with a pleasant tone and a friendly face.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@tinyfaery heh, i think next time I’ll think of you answering this q and making my bolded script and smile…thanks ;)

Axemusica's avatar

I personally could care less about someone else’s life style. If that’s what makes them happy than let them be happy, but I often find I need to defend myself. Sometimes I feel like a target. I’m usually the first to give up in this “defense” though, since usually it’s meaningless crap that I could, again, care less about. If it’s something I feel strongly about, like, the type of shoes I wear don’t ask, then I might put some effort forth. Otherwise I let people do what ever they want. Since…. I could care less, lol.

DrMC's avatar

I think various people have various need to oppose or defend their differences.

It has been my general experience the higher the IQ and emotional street smarts, the less the need to validate any particular lifestyle choice. This generalization does not always apply.

If someone “barbs” you with a different POV like the example above – keep in mind the apparent ignorance. Gently handle like the stupid child that they are, no sense in wasting emotion on it. The less you give them to work with the less they can react to.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@DrMC I don’t think they’re stupid or a child…and it’s not so much that I am looking for how to make them stop…I mean I am…but I am looking to find out if there are deeper reasons behind this…and if this is common?

mammal's avatar

i find vegetarianism seems to unsettle people to the point of hostility, it certainly brings about some really foul responses from people. Next time just tell your coworker to stop being annoying, or find somewhere quiet to eat your food.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@mammal ha…like that’s even a possibility, lol.

mammal's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir what, telling your colleague to stop being annoying or finding somewhere quiet to eat your food in peace?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@mammal finding somewhere quiet

ninjacolin's avatar

MY ;) theory about why humans do this is thusly: “it’s a matter of global security that others learn to think and behave in as good a way as I do. the more people who agree with me and who live my way.. the safer i am.”

sharing ideas about the best ways to live is important for the sake of the community.

mammal's avatar

Sagitarianism seems to induce a good deal of disquiet too, lol

ratboy's avatar

I pray that God may forgive you for spurning the delicious animals He created for your pleasure and nourishment.

Axemusica's avatar

@mammal “Sagitarianism seems to induce a good deal of disquiet too, lol” huh?

mammal's avatar

@Axemusica i could explain that comment but it might profoundly disturb your equilibrium.

Axemusica's avatar

@mammal I ask because I’m a Sagittarius and if that’s what you meant, than I must say speak for yourself.

Adagio's avatar

I think that sometimes people feel a need to fit others’ behaviours and opinions they do not share in boxes so they are more easily described , and more easily understood.

Ron_C's avatar

To tell the truth, I don’t question other peoples position on things unless they, (1) say something that violently upsets my opinion or (2) the subject comes up in conversation.

Part of my job is to understand the difference between what people need versus what they want. I don’t look for controversy in my normal discourse and frankly I don’t care what position others take unless there is a real conflict with mine. For instance if they insist attempting a religious conversion for me, of it they try to convince me that there is merit for sex with animals, or that Rush Limbaugh is a great orator.

Outside of those subjects, I’m pretty flexible and mostly practice a live and let live policy.

mammal's avatar

@Axemusica oh ok, nice, me too….Sagitarians are apt to misbehave ;) that’s what i was thinking (anyway we are wandering off topic)

Axemusica's avatar

@mammal ohhh, I agree with that statement. I guess I just didn’t agree with the use of the word “disquiet”. Yes, we are apt to misbehave, hehe, but yes off topic…. Sorry @Simone_De_Beauvoir ;)

mammal's avatar

@Axemusica Simone will have to discipline us ;) (ooh la la)

hungryhungryhortence's avatar

I agree with @pdworkin that your co worker was probably just making casual banter but like @tinyfaery, I also believe meal time is kind of precious and I’d use the ignore and deflection to where my co worker suddenly felt alone in the conversation and excused themselves, hopefully by saying something like “oh, let me get out of here so you can get back to your lunch”.

Axemusica's avatar

@mammal I’m already on her list, haha. ;)

DrMC's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – I think certain individuals feel the need to be and promote normatization. This is a very big deal at certain developmental periods.

Some cultures reinforce normatization, others embrace diversity.

In these general terms it can encompass the observed.

ingroup:outgroup interaction is what you are describing. There is practically an entire field devoted to this.

I think working on it interventionally is next to impossible, cognitive approaches have been used on my unwitting children – not to use “fag” or “jew” as a slur. This is a priveledge of parenting. Open mindedness and the ability to see multiple sides is a gift that is under appreciated, but to me highly valued.

Oh, and don’t forget, you will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Surrender now comrade.

Dr_Lawrence's avatar

I have never felt obligated to challenge my friends with other lifestyles to do anything differently.
I’ve asked questions like, “What does it feel like, as a lesbian, to be approached my a man who finds you attractive and how do you respond?”
That’s a sensitive question to try to understand my friends experience.

If some asks me why I write G-d instead of using the middle letter, I explain that it is my custom not to use that name carelessly or casually or disrespectfully.

I avoid trying to try and defend my beliefs and practices but I never try to promote them either. I hate it when people try to force their religion or chosen diet, or politics down other peoples throat. It is the ultimate in intolerant and disrespect. When they deny doing it but persist in doing so I expose their intolerance and duplicity.

I was raised to respect others and to expect others to do the same.

ETpro's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir We’ve spent a long time evolving from swinging through the trees to the first upright hominids through all the twists and turns to today’s homo sapiens, We’ve picked up a lot of evolutionary baggage along the way. Much of it still serves us well, but some of it is downright useless in today’s world, if not even dangerous. Unfortunately, natural selection is good at selecting survival behaviors and traits into a population, but not at weeding obsolete ones out unless they reduce the reproductive chances of the organism possessing them.

Through much of human evolutionary time, we were struggling to survive with everything from cave bears and saber-toothed tigers to neighboring tribes of cannibals out to turn us into their next lunch. (And please, creationists and intelligent design proponents, feel free to comment that you don’t believe in evolution, but let’s not turn this particular thread to that topic.)

We needed a strong sense of self to make it. Self preservation was a strong survival plus, and thus is deep in the gene pool. In fact, some single cell organisms seem to the rudiments of it. We further needed a sense of tribe. One human against a cave bear or saber-toothed tiger or tribe of cannibals didn’t stand much chance. But a tribe of humans could hunt the great woolly mammoth and turn him into lunch. So a sense of tribe was genetically selected for survival, as well.

In today’s world, we don’t face cave bears or saber-toothed cats or neighboring tribes of cannibals, at least not very often, but the survival instincts we learned when we did face them are still in us. Socrates said back in 399 BCE that ”“The unexamined life is not worth living.” But with the distractions of this hurly-burly life we lead today, many of us, even some that are exceedingly bright, haven’t gotten that message in nearly 2500 years.

Unless we look into self enough to realize that it is a useful construct, but just a construct, here today and gone tomorrow, we still have every bit of ego protection invested in living that the cave man did back when he ganged up with his tribe to kick a huge cave bear out and take over the cave. Anything that challenges our sense of tribe and self simultaneously, like not eating the dead bear after we win the fight, seems to smack at the very basics of survival. The ego has been challenged, The group identity has been challenged. The fight-or-flight instinct kicks in. Adrenaline is released into the blood stream. Neurons start firing in rapid secession.

Now today, most of us are cultured enough to know better than choking someone to death because they are a vegetarian and we eat meat, or vice versa. The more cultured even know better than to ridicule such a non-tribal idea. But the old demon of fight or flight is there nonetheless. That’s the traffic cop directing the neural flow of the excited brain. And that cop says, OUR TRIBE IS RIGHT! I AN RIGHT! MY very existence depends on that.

And so you have an inane debate about what one should or shouldn’t eat, of who one should or shouldn’t boink. Now mind you, if your idea of a great lunch included ME, I might chose to let that artificial construct of self take over and we’d have a very heated debate. We’d have more than that, we’d have a to-the-death fight. But if it’s just whether you do or don’t like the same things I like, I’ve examined self enough to realize it is immaterial. I’m happy to learn from you because you have experienced things that I have not. Sadly, as your experience testifies, we’ve got a good deal of self examination to go before anything like a majority of us act in that way, and I’m still working hard at acting that way myself.

andrew's avatar

I’m just to address the vegetarianism, since that’s in my area of knowledge (having dated/been partially a vegan for two years):

I think a lot of people are trying to see how judgey you may be—since lord knows there are a lot of judgmental vegetarians. Knowing that lifestyle choice means that you may think less of them for their choice, so that (rightfully or wrongfully) can cause some questions about your reasons for/against it.

Not suggesting that you need to acquiesce to their normativity, but it may explain the questions.

DrMC's avatar

This will all be better once you all are re educated

Muahahah

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ratboy you’re joking, right?

shf84's avatar

I think this probably comes from a disagreement with the other persons way of life or a knowledge of a natural conflict with how they are and how the person reacting is. I was talking to a woman in Vegas that kept bringing up Christianity and how she was going to “get to heaven” it was hard not to just say I’m an atheist I don’t believe in heaven because I well know how Christianity feels about non Christians. It takes a very dim view of us. Gender identity I can’t imagine how that would really make someone react that way really unless they had some sort of strict view on gender or had some bad experiences with people of a given identity, not really sure.

NaturallyMe's avatar

I thinks it’s kind of a natural reaction sometimes. Maybe it’s an interesting point to discuss – sometimes it can be very interesting to hear why someone lives that way that is so different from yours. Some people like to elaborate why they think something is so, others don’t care to, maybe it just depends on how interested they are in discussing different points of view.

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