Do you think we should move 10K parties to the meta section?

Yes, please. (What’s the meta category? Where is it? What are entrance fees?)

I think so. Not that I look at the meta category anyway. 10K parties are still about Fluther itself.

Si.

Sure, makes sense. I guess meta means stuff related to fluther, never would’ve guessed.

New users would not know of 10k parties if this happened because new users would not know of the meta category.

Hmmm. . .separate but equal. Where have I heard this before?

jk. . .go for it. i already got mine.

@Fred931: I’m a very old user, and I haven’t a clue about what a meta catagory is.

The meta category is a separate tab on the main page—but the difference between Meta and the others is that unlike the Discussions and Question categories, the Meta category doesn’t show up on the main page.

See, @andrew? Not even 20k @gailcalled knows what the meta category is!

My vote is for no.. mainly because why hide the celebration of someone being an awesome jelly? Moving it means less attendees.

@Fred931: Having rolled my eyes rightward, I now know. There are only so many ways of saying and typing “congratulations,” I feel. March to meta, I say

How is a question submitted to the Meta section? Is this a new button that will be featured when you ask a question or is it at the discretion of the moderation team?

I agree with @MissAnthrope. But this is your site, so you should do what you feel is right.

@MissAnthrope To me, the celebration is just fine on the “community feed” area. If I want to congratulate someone for reaching 10K I will do it via comment, not the thread. I feel it’s a little more heartfelt there and less of a “Great, now give me lurve” thing.

Hmmmm…interesting idea, but I think they are okay in the main feed. They don’t happen too often and more people will see them.

@dverhey – I see your point, but it is a Fluther tradition that I rather like.

@Blondesjon There’s an option at the bottom of the ask flow. We’re going to try and add a little more emphasis on it once I get a code review.

@MissAnthrope Agreed, I enjoy it as well, I’m just saying that it’s something that can be noticed elsewhere as well. And they will start happening more and more as time passes.

I’d have to say no. It looks like it may be harder to find. My vote is to leave things here.

I think keeping them on the main page will help newer users better understand the way our community works and give them a bit of insight. Keep it where it is! plus…. these threads are a celebration not commentary on how the site works or the why’s and how’s of fluther.

Me likey the meta. If the congrats parties do go to the meta then I think that if a person is in my fluther I should get a notification that a jelly in my fluther has reached a milestone. I realize that the community feed has a notification of these things, but honestly, I don’t pay much attention to it. I hate being late to a party.

Since you are announcing 5K, 10K, and 20K achievements in the Community Feed you could also add a little note directing folks to the meta section.

Wait, does this mean that brand new users who ask the inevitable “Has anybody clicked on Add Yourself to Your Fluther?” (as if they’d just discovered something new) and “How do you do that little thing with the @?” and my favorite, “What would you like to change about fluther?” won’t get answers unless we go over to Meta and look for their questions?

How about if they went to the main page for a very brief time, say an hour or two, just to make sure they’re seen? Give them a little exposure, at least. Same with 10k. Then move them.

I agree, the parties take up a lot of space, but I’d hate to deny them to folks who’ve come a long way and seen so many others get there first. Pretty soon 20k is going to be as 10k once was—a common event—and by then we’ll be hanging curtains in the 30k villa. But the fact that people do feel this way about fluther milestones, and stick around long enough to reach them, is something we should not take too lightly in the context of the ongoing success of the site.

@Jeruba That’s correct. The meta questions will go into the meta section, where the fluther staff (and regulars) can better monitor it. It also means regulars can talk about the site and what’s going in a way that doesn’t disrupt the main flow—and doesn’t require them to go into the chat room.

@Jeruba Once again the voice of reason. GA. And getting close to 20K yourself.

I’m ambivalent about it—I just know that some regulars hate the 10K parties, one even to the point of leaving.

I also wonder about the ‘lurve devaluation’ and how that affects newcomers.

Just to play devil’s advocate on the ‘lurve devaluation’ issue, every time there’s a question asking about lurve, nearly everyone says over and over that lurve is fairly meaningless and it’s not a big deal. How it affects newcomers, I imagine can only be positive, in that it encourages them to stick around.

Perhaps we should have our own elite category of question as well. Password protected of course.

I have mixed feelings on this. It would be great if the community feed actually directed you to the celebration question… then it wouldn’t matter where the question was actually posted, you’d be able to find it easily. About the lurve party aspect of it, is there any way to turn off the points in specific threads?

@augustlan – I like that idea a lot, of the community feed directing to the celebration thread. I’ve had trouble in the past finding the celebration question and I wonder if some people never got one because people weren’t sure if one existed already.

@augustlan Unfortuately, that’s not technically possible, unless the congratulatory question is automatically generated, and that’s not very fun.

@Blondesjon‘s suggestion about taking to the meta category, though, is possible.

I have to admit that it’s hard to be as enthusiastic about 10k now as it was when, say, Augustlan made it, joining a handful. But for each individual it is still an accomplishment.

I have seen the questions that you refer to, @MissAnthrope, and you’re right, that is what people say. But I don’t actually believe there are many who really don’t care at all. I think few of us are actually chasing lurve (some are!), but most of us probably notice when a comment suddenly attracts a heap of GAs or when they post a question that really rings people’s bells, and that is as gratifying as applause for your speech or laughter at your wisecrack. In that sense I believe we do care.

The fact that it is not redeemable for anything, doesn’t evaluate to some rank or standing, doesn’t come in different denominations, and isn’t subtractable—AND that there are caps on it—makes it an ideally workable game token. And that is what it is. Everybody knows that Monopoly money isn’t real and you can’t spend it, it has no meaning outside the game, and the point is to play the game and have fun whether you get a lot of money or not. But within the context of the game you do care because that is how you play the game.

I’m not sure what you mean by “lurve devaluation.” We saw a big inflation when ABers joined and started ladling it out by the bucketfull to all their friends, sending newbies skyrocketing to 5k. But that was an aberration, and that wave has mostly passed now. Other than that, what is this devaluation?

@andrew, it would be technically possible to post a link to the party thread if you could choose an option or set a flag when posting the party thread question itself, validated by the subject’s actually having achieved 10k. Cumbersome, yes, but doable.

What if the ”[blank] is in the 10K club!” notification in the community feed linked to their congratulatory question?

@Jeruba You’re right. The lurve thing is a very small thing. I was more responding to the comment about newcomers seeing the lurve. On one hand, I think it gives them a wonderful feel of the community on the site. On the other, they learn a behavior that lurve is given out willy-nilly.

While the points themselves are meaningless, the act of “giving a great answer” is something that we can statistically use in a number of different ways, and as such, we’re starting to thing about ways to incentivize giving a great answer for just that—great answers.

@J0E see my comment above.

I have faith you can figure out a way to do it.

@andrew- I know I ask for too much here but could there possibly be a way to access the meta section on the iPhone version of Fluther?

Oh, dear, @andrew, please don’t incentivize anything. Please don’t run stats, give more prizes, make seeking awards an end in itself, or otherwise change the balance. It is a balance, and it it is a fairly delicate one. It works now. Adding complexity is not adding value. I have seen so many software projects turn into monsters that way. Even God knew what “done” looked like and stopped when he got there.

It’s the fluther vets that created the lurve parties. We can all just stop doing it. Newbies will just follow along. BTW, I never lurve in the congratulatory threads anyway. No one has to do it. I doubt that the lurve in the congrats threads account for much anyway, seeing we have all mostly maxed out on one another.

@Jeruba Oh, come now. You really think Fluther is ‘done’? When the comment system is broken? When it’s still difficult to read questions? When question matching needs work? When every time we get an influx of users the site breaks down?

All of these things, and many more, need to be addressed. But obviously they need to be addressed in a sensitive way that doesn’t upset the balance and vision of the site—giving people an easy, warm, and helpful way to help each other.

Everything on the site involves incentives—a balance of adjusting the culture in a way that promote sustainability, that works with what’s already established, and continues to solve the site’s problems with not only dealing with the technology, but more importantly, the culture.

@AstroChuck What, the red-headed stepchild? I’m going to give the meta tag a bit to settle, see if it works, and then we’ll see about moving things over to the iphone.

Sorry we’ve neglected you. <g>

I don’t think we’ve exhausted the need for improvement and maintenance of what we have. I still have a few pet entries on the wish list too. But that is a different matter from adding whole new features, especially those that have the potential to alter the culture away from a focus on the quality of the content and the interactions we have around it.

The essence of fluther is altruistic: the desire to help others in some way by responding to their questions. Whatever we get out of that is what we get out of it, and people have their own widely varying reasons. Changing it to an emphasis on self-serving behavior—participating to get something instead of to give something, to compete instead of collaborate—that is what sets my alarms off.

@Jeruba Oh, I agree absolutely.

Neglected again. :(

I vote to put them in meta. They’re hard to find anyways and this make it easier. As a bonus: they’re cluttery, and getting more cluttery by the day.

When I hit a certain landmark, I had to be directed to the question with a PM.

That’s why we were careful about the types of things we award—you never get awarded for just answering. That’s a horrible idea.

I see where my use of incentive could have meant “bribe”.

In 2010 we’re looking to distill and filter—to allow people to use the site for fun, to give them avenues for doing that, but making it so that it’s still easy to filter down the content into helpful and interesting things.

(I mean, obv. we all found meta right now…)

I personally would be interested in the idea of incentivizing (is that even a word?) GA’ing good, quality answers over the jokey ones. But that’s a small peeve of mine, anyway, so I’m probably biased.

@andrew . . . $$$lol$$$

Maybe you could make the meta tab a different color than orphans etc. Those are listed on the normal page no matter what.

(Plus, if you make a place for poll-ey questions and games to sit and hide, you could put that there too. Different color for totally different section, not just reorganization.

@MissAnthrope I agree—but the jokey answers are also part of what makes Fluther “Fluthery”. Like I said, it’s about providing avenues for those type of responses, while making sure that if you want to opt out, you can.

@delirium I didn’t. This was on the main page when I saw it. I didn’t click Meta until afterward.

@MissAnthrope, it’s an effin Marketing word, the kind I used to gag over in meetings.

@Jeruba This q was never on the main page. Or should never have been. Did others see it on the main page?

Wasn’t it? Well, then, I don’t know. My mistake, then. I don’t remember clicking Meta until I was in this thread. Maybe it was linked from somewhere else.

@Jeruba It could have been! It could be a caching bug. That’s why I want to know.

Yes, please. The demographics have changed. Good for you guys, it’s a marker of success, but before I got to 10K it was already getting a lot easier, and after the AB influx it began to become trivial.

Wait, you’ve made it so any question regarding Fluther itself is essentially hidden? Hmm…

@andrew – I don’t mean not to have jokey answers at all, it’s what keeps Fluther from being dry and boring. And we definitely have some witty people here. I’m just saying I’d be down with an incentive to better congratulate those who spend time and energy on really good answers and questions. My peeve is merely that that energy is not currently rewarded and I think it should be.

Also, I found this question on the main site, haven’t clicked on “Meta” yet.

@Ivan Yeah, it’s a lot easier to propagate Dr J’s Iron Fist of Censorship that way.

@MissAnthrope You mean on the main list?

@andrew – Yep.

I never got a 5K party. It didn’t exist then, I guess. Can I go back? ;-)

I first saw the question in my questions for you link. Went back to the main page to find it but never saw it there.

I would be happy to have the Congratulations threads moved to the Meta section.

Yes. I think moving them would be good. I do think it’s a nice thing, even though I avoid them and congrat in IM.

If it was moved to this meta catagory of which you speak, will it still beckon me from my Fluther?

@filmfann Yes. It is and does.

@filmfann Good question, that’s all I was concerned about. As long as I get notified, then I’m cool.
I am curious though, I usually start from where I left off and go through the questions one by one (yes, I’m serious) Would it not be in the list of all the questions as well? Only in the meta?
btw, I still don’t understand what meta means. but, that’s beyond the point.

Yes.

@casheroo – Meta: Self-referential; at a higher level

I have a pair of underwear that have camisoles and panties printed on them, which I find random and funny, I call them my meta-underwear. :P

Let me see if I understand this.

There is a tab on the main page called meta. (Does anyone use tabs?)

The meta section is for questions about fluther (including questions about lurve, or how the place looks, or could be improved?)

Meta questions do not appear on our feeds. You have to proactively go to meta to see meta questions and answer them. (who answers them?)

To move party questions to meta, what would have to happen? Would they get modded out of the main section? Or mod-moved?

Answers to meta questions don’t get lurve? Or is it that milestone questions won’t get lurve? Or will they continue to get lurve?

I don’t know. I don’t think party questions belong with meta questions. Party questions aren’t really like meta questions. How about having a new tab for parties or other trivial or social stuff?

I think it’s problematic to try to separate out questions because so many can be categorized in more than one category. In any case, if you do set up this thing, mods will still be using their judgment to decide what kind of question it is.

Now I gather that we are not allowed to ask questions about any other individual flutherite, right? The only ones allowed are the party questions?

If party questions are moved to meta, then will it be possible to ask other personalized questions there? Will there be other party-type or silly questions there?

I like the idea of moving the 10 and 20K parties to the meta section. Even if their can’t be a link to the congratulatory thread listed in the community feed, there can be a comment along the lines of “Come out the “Meta” tab for a celebration!”

Did @Daloon suddenly become @wundayatta? WTF?

@andrew I’m almost positive I saw this Q under the “new” tab initially, but it moved to the meta tab quite quickly.

To add my input, I usually end up searching for 10K threads anyhow, so it doesn’t matter to me where they “live.”

However, like what I think @casheroo is getting at, I think it’d be nice to have an “All” tab that includes the meta questions. It is nice to have an option where they’re weeded out for those days where you feel like you’ll punch someone if you see another “How do I make my text tiny???” question, but I could see myself forgetting to check meta for a few days and missing something interesting.

@SuperMouse yeah—I don’t want to identify with craziness any more

I never even noticed meta before

@SuperMouse Exactly the type of question appropriate for the meta section.

@wundayatta Almost right. The only difference is that questions in the meta category don’t show up in the ‘all’ filter. That’s it. They still show up in q’s for you and in ‘my fluther’.

The “intent” of the meta section is to be able to talk about the site. So questions like “Where has Daloon gone” or “what’s up with lurve” or “are they ever going to work on the comment system” or “Why aren’t q’s for you working?” or “WTF is up with X migration” would all be appropriate.

What it actually is used for, though, is anyone’s guess. ;)

@andrew This was in my “questions for you”. I don’t know if was originally on the front page.

@all I’m goign to ask a new question about it.

Actually, I just got really tired.

@andrew I am heading over to the meta section right now to ask that question!

I like it!

Oh, I think it was in my questions too, and not on the front page. I just know I didn’t go looking for it.

Yes. Please move all parties to the Meta tab.

I never use the tabs. If I list meta in my profile will I then get meta questions in my questions for you?

@tinyfaery You mentioned the congrat parties for people in your fluther ending up in your questions for you. @jbfletcherfan is in my fluther and I never received her party thread in my questions for me. I had to send her a pm to tell her how much I lurve her.

@jonsblond Good question, I was wondering how we would be notified, I didn’t even think of putting meta in my profile.

I’m definitely putting meta into my profile.

@andrew how can I ask a question specifically in the meta section? I would like to post just such a question, but I’m not sure how to do so.

I’m all for a separate 10k section wherever.
I actually hate when I miss them and they get buried.

@SuperMouse Look at the bottom of the first page on the question asking flow. Should be a litlte more highlighted.

Oy- am I confused! Should have majored in semiotics when I was back there in college.

Yes, doesn’t anybody every read the blog? I saw it right away. The meta category is perfect for the congratulations questions. In fact, I would like to see more of them – Congrats for passing a yearly milestone in membership, Happy Birthday, and all holidays belong there.

And we should continue to be alerted to it on the Community Feed section. I would also like to have an automatic notice sent to all new members telling them with the suggestion they can find a lot of tips and ideas in the likes at the bottom of the page. I used to try to catch all of the new members that showed up in the Community Feed, but I couldn’t keep up.

This is awesome!

I would put the celebrations in Meta. I think they will be easier to find and also more fun! This is such a wonderful addition to Fluther!

(Were you all kidding saying we could put “meta” in our profile to get alerts?)

@Dog Refresh that page, you should see the new, even better area.

Yay! (Just removed the outdated screen shot!)

@Dog My question was sincere, however stupid it may be. I understand that putting meta in my profile will not give me alerts in the ‘questions for you’. I mentioned that I never use the tabs. I look at activity for me, questions for me, and the main page. I guess I just don’t like having to look in several directions for questions. I hope I’m making sense. Stupid cold medicine has my mind foggy.

Disclaimer – I didn’t read most of the above answers because there are too many.

I think its a good idea. When I notice the community feed showing someone hit 10K, I try to find their Q but usually it is lost amidst all the other Qs on the main page. The meta category will help make it so much easier to locate these Qs and be able to put our “congrats” in there. As often mentioned in mod talks and questions asked by annoyed regulars, the 10K parties aren’t really questions asking for help. They are central to Fluther’s community feeling but they aren’t Q&A format. And so it makes sense to put them in a different category. I don’t believe it takes away from the person who hit 10K at all. Most of us look for the threads once we notice someone hit 10k. Now it will just make it easier.

Also, those who don’t like the 10K parties (and are on the site only to help and be helped) can breathe easier. It’s a win-win, no?

I guess I haven’t been here long enough to have an opinion except to say that it does make sense to have the parties here and leave the Q&A for the main page.
I didn’t realize that there were such negative feelings about some of us. I had only been at AB for about a month, being kind of a luddite, and I had only recently learned about such a thing, and liked this format better. Sorry @pdworkin, I didn’t know I had changed your demographics.

Just a suggestion; If we were to move 10k and 20k parties into meta, then there should also be 5k parties because the clutter that would occur from the extra celebratory questions under current circumstances would be much less of a problem. Just a messy corner of the room, not an entirely messy room

Fine with me as they still end up in the “Questions for You” section.

@Fred931 Oh, I don’t think there should be 5K parties, because it is too easy to hit 5k now.

Once again, I agree with marina, uh @marinelife.

@marinelife I agree. But do you think they should be moderated away?

Hmm, just realized that some people are soon hitting 30K.

Okay, I asked this on the blog..but how are things filtered into meta? Do the mods have to do it? Does it go by tags? I have no clue how technology works…I need an adult!

Take a look at this The link is now bigger and highlighted but it is still in the same position.

@Dog Thanks for visual aid!

Also, if your Q is indeed about Fluther, but you didn’t put it in meta yourself, the mods do have the ability to move your Q into that tab.

@Dog Thanks! I didn’t see that, I like the option :)

I agree with Marina @marinelife. 5K is just too much. Let’s leave it to 10 and 20K, etc.

And @everybody. Stop with the name changes! You’re driving me nuts!

If you want meta questions in your “for you” folder then couldn’t you just put “Fluther” in your fields of expertise, and then have everyone tag meta questions with “Fluther” in the topics? Seems like an easy solution, nu?
Maybe Andrew could just have the meta question template already have “Fluther” in the topics.

@breedmitch Preloading Fluther in the topics for meta questions seems like a great idea.

Side note: I just now realized I didn’t have Fluther in my expertise section… and I’m the freakin’ manager!

@jonsblond I did not think your question was stupid at all – in fact I was hoping it was that easy! I use an iPhone much of the time and cannot get into meta yet. :)

Another vote for meta availability on the iPhone.

It’s where I do the majority of my Fluthering.

“If on a dark night you meta traveler….”

Sorry, my nonsenese bone (alongwith my tension headache) is working overtime this morning.

I want to make love to the meta section. It is kinda odd seeing that people objected to it at first. We will make lovely babies!!

What is really awesome now that we moved 10k celebrations here is that they are easy to find! I think they will get better responses here.

The 10K, etc. parties are fun for the recipient. That said, I find that most of the comments are a repetition and variation of congratulations, woot, 10,000 exclamation points, congo-rats. There are always some thoughtful exceptions (Gary -wtf) comes to mind. But in general, the dozens of comments seem to be almost interchangeable.

Gotta run. My VHR repair doctor is coming (aged 17).

@Dog :: And you have to spend a bit of time around here to know about the meta section and actually check it often. I think this is good for the celebrations. Most of the people that visits the meta section probably know everyone that hits 10K. Maybe that will result in more personal comments instead of “congrats”.

As of now, all celebrations will be in the meta section. There will now be a link to the meta section by the “so-and-so hit 10K!” link in the community feed, which will point here. Good work, guys!

It will link to meta? YAY!

It just keeps getting better and better!

I love that Fluther is so organic.

Orgasmic too. But that’s for another thread.