Hypothetical: Is it alright for a gay man to start dating, or even marry a woman?

I think you’re confused about the meaning of the word “gay”.

A gay man will not “truly love” a woman. At least not romantically. If they did, they wouldn’t be gay. They’d be bi or straight.

And yes, it’s wrong to convince a person that you’re in love with them if you’re not.

Gay men have been doing this for thousands of years. Part of being “in the closet”.

Lets say your question was reversed. would you want to know the truth upfront from a gay woman wanting to marry you and have children? i think any normal person would want to know this. tell her your whole story and leave nothing out, for it will be discovered at a later date. in all fairness to the lady, i would present to her a clean bill of health to her from your doctor. this way, there are no surprises down the road. i believe what you have asked is possible, if you can stick with a woman for sex and love and not drift backwards to your old gay buddies.

That would certainly not be a good anniversary present.. for your spouse to come out of the closet….

how could this ever work out? If your’e not attracted to women.. it’s always going to be a problem. don’t put someone (especially kids) through that – nowadays gay couples can adopt children as easily as anyone else

People who don’t love each other romantically should not get married.

@john65pennington Of course, anyone who has been sexually active should provide that same bill of health.

It would be fair if the gay man was up front with the women he dated that he was gay.

Snarp…...i agree. but does anyone ever really do this?

I don’t think it’s right to date, or to marry in the typical romantic fashion, based mainly on what @MrItty said above, gay men do not romantically love women, that’s the whole point. A gay man could seek out a woman with whom he could have a long term familial relationship in order to produce and rear children, but both partners would need to be completely honest about what they wanted and expected out of the relationship and what their sexual orientations were. They would need to recognize that it was not and could not be a romantic relationship. They should be old enough and mature enough to be certain this was the way they wanted to go about it and they should probably have extensive emotional and legal counseling to assure themselves they were going to create a stable environment for the children and not create massive legal hassles.

@john65pennington My wife and I did not show each other any paper test results, but we did fully inform each other about our sexual histories and what test results were as appropriate before we ever had sex.

A marriage is a legal contract between 2 consenting adults and people get married for other reasons than just love and happiness.. If you were open and honest with this woman about your goals and ideas of what you wanted from your marriage and she was cool with that…may your marriage be long and prosperous.

This all started with an argument I got in with a gay friend of mine.

He said that he was emotionally attracted to women, and only physically attracted to guys. In turn, he said that he has never been emotionally attracted to a guy. He wanted to preform… “the switch”

Hense my posting.

someone already tried this.

@mowens Your friend is very unusual. If he’s being perfectly honest, then there’s nothing wrong with him romantically pursuing a woman, but he does need to be completely honest from the very beginning, and he and his intended need to set boundaries carefully and realize that they’re in for some potential work and trouble. But if the man and woman are the right people for such a relationship then they can make it work. There’s no one right way to make a marriage or a family, except that honesty is essential.

@Snarp and @john65pennington I’ve done (and so have many of my friends) the whole getting tested and showing results thing before having unprotected sex.

@JohnDCitizen Oh dear. How about you open that little mind of yours a little?

I think it’s only ok if both partners are upfront. I’m sure there are plenty of married couples out there in which one or both members are gay and it’s a marriage of convenience and maybe even deep platonic love. I’d be willing to bet there is some agreement within the marriage about outside partners. It’s not what I would want in my life, but hey, to each their own.

Find a manly woman…a REALLY manly woman lol :D

@eponymoushipster I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

i’m going out on a limb here…a wee bit…but i think @JohnDCitizen might be a closet case.

@eponymoushipster Or just a troll. Please don’t feed the trolls, it just makes them more aggressive.

@eponymoushipster GA

@mowens I mean seriously what if he found a very masculine, woman? (assuming she is straight)

@Steve_A or slip some hormones into her coffee?~

@Likeradar

Open my mind? It’s not fucking normal. I bet you’re some hippie liberal progressive from the San Fransisco bay area.

I would NOT date a woman who is gay or was gay. Although people are born with innate urges to be gay, it takes a conscience effort to act on those urges. Acting on those urges shows a lack of self control. It says I put my OWN selfish sexual fantasies before society.

If you like little children you can either
A) Burry those urges in the deep corners of your mind, convince yourself that it is immoral, and get help if you need to.
B) Act on it and rape little kids

Group A dosen’t bother me. Group B should die.

Only if they are both completely honest with each other.

@Steve_A I didn’t think to ask. That may work. I just think maybe he used the term gay to loosely, what if we replaced the word “gay” in my question with bisexual?

@JohnDCitizen DId you just call all gays child rapists?!

@JohnDCitizen did someone touch your bathing suit area as a kid? was it Uncle Bob?

@JohnDCitizen With all due respect, it is your homophobia that requires counselling.

@JohnDCitizen time to go crawl back into cave. Ugga-ugga.

And, take Pat Robertson with you. Ugga.

@mowens Ya never know since he said it was just a physical thing, from there the emotional part should be fine least thats what your friend is saying right?

it could work yea? :)

@JohnDCitizen Actually it is normally straight men, such as yourself, who go out and rape little kids. Statistically, usually their own.

Not without revealing the fact to the woman in advance so she can make an informed decision. A gay man will never ‘truely love’ a woman as you put it, not in the romantic way in which you should love your partner. & from what I’ve read / heard, most gay men who pretend to be streight end up pretty unhappy too. If both parties are willing go through with it, then fine, but not with one party pulling the wool over the others eyes.

i think it would be pretty cool actually. i think you would need to be worried about your gay freinds not being supportive, some should be supportive, but there may be some that won’t undertsand. atleast not right away. im not gay so i really don’t know if this would be good advise, but good luck anyhow

No no I didn’t say gays are child rapists. What I mean was child rapist have innate urges for children just as gays have innate urges for the same sex. Both are not normal.

@JohnDCitizen….interesting perspective. Personally I think you’re way-off mark but you’re entitled to your views. I’m curious about why you equate gay men with paedophiles though. Do you have evidence not supplied by the extreme right or religious groups to back this up?

@JohnDCitizen was Uncle Bob “the gay”?

In college my hetero female married her gay friend so they could both get financial aid. Such a sacred institution that needs to be protected.~

Those with same-sex attraction have been doing this since the beginning of time. If someone consciously sets out to deceive a partner and is not just repressed, then I think that’s dishonest and damaging for all parties involved.

I’m not a right winger, nor do I go to church.

From what I understand on the subject, gays are born with an innate urge for men, just as I am for women. There is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing wrong with my sexual preference either. But just because I am attracted to women dosen’t mean I would do things to them that are deemed innapropriate to society (rude\lude gestures and looks, overly agressive sexual come ons to someone I don’t know, public exposure, even rape), even though I may want to.

I equated gays to pedophiles to explain about innate urges. I have an innate urge for women, gays for men, and pedophiles for children. The only difference between these urges are that mine are socially appropriate and “normal.” The urges of gays and pedophiles are not

@JohnDCitizen wait, are you saying you’re a pedo?

@JohnDCitizen…. Thats fair enough, sorry for the misunderstanding. Although what you have overlooked is that just because you deem something to be innapropriate, doesn’t necessarily mean the rest of society does. Most western societies have deemed that homosexuality is appropriate for those who consent, this is born out by the number of laws protecting them, & their ability to get married. Just my opinion but I am a member of society.

@JohnDCitizen Since you have dropped the inflammatory profanity in favor of actually discussing your viewpoint, I’ll engage that. You still equate homosexuality with something harmful, namely acts involving minors, public exposure, etc. Homosexuals live perfectly normal lives and don’t do anything sexual in public view any more than you or I do. They harm no one, and their activities are much more comparable to “normal” heterosexual behavior than to pedophilia or public exposure. Why is it any concern of yours what two consenting adults do behind closed doors?

I understand. I don’t know how we got off topic. I am not a gay basher. I have had a few friends who are gay. If you are not overly flamboyant and queer about it, you are cool with me. I still don’t see it as normal though.

The original thing I said was I would NEVER date a former-lesbian\bi woman. They are already tainted with those innate urges. It’s just wierd to me, Im out got to work

I agree with @tinyfaery, if it’s a conscious decision to be dishonest or to withhold information then it is potentially a very harmful situation to both partners and to any children. If it’s a mutual agreement where both parties know and are comfortable with the situation then more power to them.

@JohnDCitizen you’re wrong. in many ways. I’m too tired to list them all right now.

I think the marriage can work but he should make the woman aware of his sexual needs. His children should be made aware as well when they’re old enough.

[Mod Says:] Please stick to the topic folks. The topic is “Hypothetical: Is it alright for a gay man to start dating, or even marry a woman?”

Any off-topic or personal quips will be removed.

Thanks

Not unless they are both aware of the situation. I also agree with @Simone_De_Beauvoir – about making the kids aware when they are old enough so they understand.

Wow. Didn’t anybody see the movie Carrington? Emma Thompson? Ring any bells? This was based on a true story, and though I didn’t care for the revolving door lifestyle, if the British could pull it off, I guess a couple of Americans can.
Does your friend plan to be faithful? You say he loves te woman? Really? I’d advise them the same way I would a straight couple. Give it six months before doing anything that will involve the courts to undo. See if you still feel the same way. Of course he should tell her. You say as long as he’s completely content. I’d say that would be important for her too, and if he’s gay, what would he know about making a woman happy in bed? Something to think about….

I’d say it’s okay if it makes both of them happy, but she really should know from the start.

@Trillian It is all hypothetical, there is no woman yet, he just think it would be better. I know him very well, he would never cheat and he gives everything his all.

@Trillian Re: Carrington and the Bloomsbury group in general. I would guess it was a much more common scenario in former days when homosexuality was illegal in England and America. Also, people got married for many othe reasons in the past – financial independence, for children, to preserve property and/or artistic companionship. Now, we generally assume marriage is for romantic reasons, although, of course, that is not always the case.

To answer the hypothetical, I think ti would be o.k. as long as the subject was explored honestly early in the relationship. It might be very important to be in the relationship for a long time before marrying and especially before having kids.

Yes, it has happened many times. Everyone has a choice.

I don’t think it’s fair to the woman, personally. If they want an honest relationship, she should know that from the beginning. And I guess it would only work if neither of them wanted a sexual relationship. In other words, bad idea.

@JohnDCitizen

Yeah, and you get to define “normal” because…

As long as both parties are aware of the circumstances, I see absolutely no reason a woman couldn’t marry a gay man. They should keep in mind, however, that marriage is often a difficult state to maintain, even without the added stress from differing sexual orientations.

LOL.
Why would we date women anyways??
If I wanted a baby/family i’d get married to a GUY and im still young so let’s hope I’m allowed to in the future…
For a baby, there are ways…

@DominicX

I don’t define normal, society does. Take a sufficently large sample of the American, wait in fact, the WORLD population. Do whatever statistical test you want. I guarentee, with 95% confidence that that sample will show that they are heterosexual.

@JohnDCitizen That who is heterosexual? The responders to your hypothetical poll? Sure, most people are heterosexual.

Unusual, rare, infrequent are all marvelous words without negative connotations attached when you want to describe something in the minority.

Other things that aren’t “normal” in the way you’re using the word- a woman being 5’10”, red heads, having a post graduate degree, and speaking Latin. Are those things negative too?

However, by your use of the word “normal” I suspect your motive wasn’t to enlighten~ us to the idea that the majority of the world’s population isn’t homosexual, now was it?

@Likeradar i’d just like to say those things you listed are not only not normal, they’re all fantastically hot. ;)

Uh, I’m 5’7”, red headed, working on a BS and speak some Latin and Italian. Does that count?

@JohnDCitizen

Wow, like I didn’t already know that. Just because most people are heterosexual doesn’t say anything about homosexuals. Just that it’s less common. Uncommon, unusual, and different are NOT reasons to discriminate against or determine something to be “wrong”.

Do it all you want, however, that’s your choice, but I’ll just pray people like you never get into legislative positions.

But of course, those three words are the original reasons for thinking homosexuality is wrong that go back thousands of years. Because it’s uncommon, different, and unusual and people FEAR and HATE what’s uncommon, unusual, and different.

Fuck normal. Fuck it to hell.

@DominicX that’s what I was trying to say… you said it better. :)

by @JohnDCitizen‘s definition, if you fuck normal, you’re not normal.

Ok queers are SOOO normal. Do you think that queers should be able to adopt kids? The hippie tree-hugging liberals (fluther) would say “Ohh they are just different”, “They are people”, queers are normal after all.

Now go ahead and say that to the kid who gets ridiculed in school every fucking day because his parents are queer. You know that will happen, I know that will happen. I went to public middle\high school and the cripples got fucked with. I can only imagine what would happen to the kid with two daddys. He’d most likely be a social outcast (he’d probabally hang out with the emos or wierd art kids). That kind of stuff could easily make a struggling teen get the gun and pwn himself. Don’t you feel bad for the kid at all?

Social status is VERY important, expecially to teenagers.

@JohnDCitizen

So now you’re trying to tell me queers aren’t people?

Okay. I can see you’re worthy of speaking to.~

@JohnDCitizen if we can use “queer” and “cripple”, can i call you jackass, or do you prefer asshole?

@JohnDCitizen Just go away already. No need to waste your time preaching to the damned.

If a gay guy wants to marry a woman, I don’t see a problem as long as he is honest with the woman about his sexual preferences.

I’m gonna go with ‘no’.

Sure, let the gay guy marry a woman, if he likes. That is his right, and as long as it never becomes an issue, it’s not an issue.

@JohnDCitizen You know who would do the ridiculing? Kids who have ignorant parents, like you, who teach that different is bad.
Won’t it be nice one day when the people who are mocked are the closed minded ones.

@Likeradar
Just a reminder: different isn’t automatically good, either.

@JohnDCitizen you don’t actually really believe all that, do you? it’s like you took all the useless cliche things from some book on homophobia and are just spewing it back – you have not a single original thought.

@JohnDCitizen
Fun fact: There was a kid in my grade school class who was raised by a gay couple. Nobody had any trouble with it. He was pretty popular, too.

Of course, that was in the Netherlands, where society has largely developed beyond your kind of homophobia.

Anyway, kids with gay parents getting bullied is not an argument against gays adopting, it’s an argument against homophobia. People like you are the ones who need to prevent that sort of thing, not gay people.

I never understood that mind-set that some parents and teachers have that kids who are bullied are sometimes “asking for it” by being quirky or whatever. I don’t care if bullying is a predictable reaction to such a thing. The bullied kid has a right to be as quirky as he damn well pleases, and if the other kids won’t acknowledge that, this right needs to be protected. Telling the victim to adapt to avoid bullying is essentially saying the bullies are the ones in charge here.

when did people stop making fun of adopted kids just for being adopted?~

@Nullo Of course not. But it is insane and ignorant to think that something is bad just because it’s different or unusual.

@Likeradar
Just remember that that door swings both ways.

@Nullo
If by the door swinging both ways you mean that different in itself is okay, neither a virtue nor a vice in its own right, then I agree with you. Norms are usually so randomly arbitrary anyway that they’re neither a reliable indicator of how something should be, nor of how it shouldn’t be, and in the end you’re usually better off ignoring them altogether.
That still means that norm-based intolerance is about as nonsensical as spinning a wheel of fortune to decide which characteristic you’ll hate various random strangers for today.

Edit: Oh wait, that analogy is incomplete. It should be a wheel of fortune that for some reason you’re deeply convinced is enchanted by pixies to make it always land on something that makes sense somehow, even if it takes you weeks of your best efforts to figure out a rationalisation that kind of works but not really.

I think that everything in a relationship should be up front. Simple. What’s the fuss? A gay man decides he wants a family and he wants to be with a woman to do that…that’s okay in my book as long as he is clear what is doing and why. Will he have a problem finding someone? Honestly…probably not. Why? Because there are a lot of gay/straight women who cannot find a nice enough partner to be with to start a family either and these same women usually have wonderful gay male friends. I have lovely gay male friends and there are a few that I think would make fantastic dads. Having dated some crazy, ridiculous straight men (and ornery ones) I would consider an alternative arrangement such as this a viable and sane option. It’s not about the arrangement in my book (which flies fine) it’s always about being honest and communicating clearly and then sitting down and discussing every possible outcome of this decision and how it will impact your friendship, your marriage, the children, the family, etc. Love is love folks…and it comes in all forms…whatever your sex/orientation or whatever else. Be honest, be happy.

Besides…it is always possible for a straight woman and a gay man to love each other…and there have been a lot of cases in history…and probably in your own town. So the idea that a “gay man and a straight woman cannot have a romantic relationship” is not true. They may not be able to have a physical relationship…but is it possible for a man to have romantic feelings for a woman and still be gay? Yes, I think so….and so did Cole Porter…many of his songs were inspired by his wife Linda, whom he considered to be his “soulmate”...though he never stopped being with men. This was done with Linda’s knowledge and consent (most times) . “Romantic” is the key word…romance is not necessarily physical…as love is not necessarily expressed physically. Sometimes a bi/gay/straight marriage of “mutual interest” born out of deep love and respect with true honesty is more rewarding than a marriage (gay or straight) that keeps your soul enslaved.