How should I handle this work dilemma?

In the sense that it can be considered a “lunch meeting” you can decide that you weren’t really lied to, that the manager was being diplomatic. If it really burns you, you can make a big deal out of it; I’d be inclined to let it go if it were me.

If its with a client than it is a lunch meeting. She wasn’t lying. I’m sure the client will deduct it as a business expense next time they do their taxes.

@tinyfaery Not enough information to go on here. What would have happened if at the time you were lied to you had waved the BS flag? Is it possible that for the sake of brevity she just said the word “meeting” as opposed to “Lunch with some big important clients who invited us and we feel like we can’t turn down because of previously stated bigness of clients.”? What would have happened if you had just casually said, “Oh really? I heard them ask you to go to Spago’s so I thought you’d be going there on Friday.” What would be the outcome if you said a. “I don’t know where they are.” b. “Well, she said they were going to a meeting, but they’re really having lunch at Spago’s.” 3. “Uh, a meeting. They’re at a meeting.”
Are you in a management position? If not, a harsh truth is that people mistake everyday familiarity for license. Then, the boss makes a decision that doesn’t sit well and people get offended, but the bottom line is, lots of things go on at the upper management level that does not carry all the way down the chain. Camaraderie is part of working in a group. Unfortunately, that does not always translate into everybody doing lunch together all the time. Sometimes the line of separation is glaringly apparent. That’s just how it is. Nothing to be offended about.

I kind of agree with @janbb. Maybe he is not hiding that they are going to Spago’s? If you are asked directly by someone just tell them what you feel is the “truth.” That they are meeting with X for lunch a Spagos. Since you said you were right there when it was being discussed, and you were not sworn to secrecy, I say just be honest. If your manager calls you on it, just say you didn’t know it was a secret.

In any organization there is that slippery thing called “need to know” and is what preserves confidential information that is supposed to preserve the status quo and provide efficiency to decision making and following of orders in that organization. You were privy to confidential information you know could cause a great disturbance within your organization. No matter how you happened upon this information, I don’t think it is within your job description to judge the right nor wrong aspect of this information and to do anything other than to forget you know it will surely expose you to risk of losing your job. For better of for worse trust in their employees is what a company values and rewards the most. If this is more than you can stomach time for a reassignment within the company or find another job.

I would just say “they had a lunch meeting” unless you’ve been told to keep the lunch confidential. When the manager comes back, if you are feeling ornery or want to test out if she intended to be deceptive, ask “I adore Spago, it is always so hard to choose what I want, what did you get?”

“lunch meeting”

I mistated the lunch meeting. The lunch is a bribe to get people to Spago in order to lure them into using our firm. The big client is actually a type of recruiter for business for us. No one in our firm has to attend. It makes sense that the partners go, but the manager and the employee definitley do not need to be there.

It sorta feels like favoritism to me. There are a few employees that have been here longer than one allowed to attend. Funny, the employee that will be attending is the good friend of the manager.

Manager is a she not a he.

I hear you work at a “firm” right? I’m assuming it is a law firm which makes me raise a question to your question….
How do you expect lawyers to be honest?
I would do whatever you have to do as to not jepordize your integrity however there is a chain of command you need to follow and it is business so perhaps just passing the lie along is best.

Do you feel that you should have been at that lunch? How would you feel if your co-workers weren’t told about it? Lastly, it’s a good lesson to learn as to who at your workplace will lie to your face – there is no reason to expect honesty, this is business and we all know how it goes.

@tinyfaery That doesn’t really change it much for me. I can see why you might be pissed at the favoritism, but people do get invited to lunch “meetings’ (or recruitments) all the time.

I suppose you could use the Nuremburg argument: “Just following orders”. You were carrying out the orders of your superiors when you made those arrangements. You don’t really have to defend their actions.

Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, but this seems like a non-issue to me.

@tinyfaery I want to add that I BELIEVE you that it was omitted on purpose, that your manager knows deep down that it is maybe favoritism or might make some people uncomfortable. I would probably feel as you do, that you are being treated like you are an idiot, and that is an insult. That is why I said if you are asked tell the “truth” the way you know it. So it is apparent no one is fooling anyone. I probably would not go as far as to confront your manager though.

@tinyfaery It is your job to keep confidential information confidential. It is not your job to pass judgment on where anyone else is going to be or why they are going to be there.

Recruiting a new client is the firm’s business. Who they elect to represent the firm at the lunch is their business.

It is not your place to sow dissension by passing on your feelings about the matter to other employees.

“Lunch with a client” is a meeting. I would assume that that is the answer she wants given to anyone else in the company who asks where they are. Sounds like the company lunches are taken seriously, and they are not to be missed by the principles of the business except for client meetings, not because they’re having lunch at Spagos.

Are you upset because she didn’t recognize that you are privy to confidential information and address you as a peer in that respect? Perhaps she’s not really cognizant of how much confidential information you’re exposed to, in which case, I would not bring it it up.

More drama: the managing partner called and asked for directions to Spago. Now the manager will probably know I know she lied.

But, I don’t think she lied, she omitted (to me omitting is the same as a lie, because it is a deceptions, but it is two different things if you know what I mean). Or, am I misunderstanding?

No, she said that they had to go to a meeting with clients. She did not say that it was a lunch. This is not a meeting, its basically hob nobbing. Maybe leaving out the fact isn;t lying, but it is dishonest.

I agree. I think you know the language that is typically used in your office for various types of “meetings” and that is why it bothers you so much.

When I was a buyer the Account Execs took me to lunch all of the time. I would say I was going to lunch with so and so, not that we were having a meeting, even though it was a business lunch.

If I’m meeting with a client for lunch, it’s a meeting. I don’t feel obligated to tell my employees what kind of meeting it is.

I hear that you are outraged, @tinyfaery and you feel like you’ve been disrespected and treated unfairly. That doesn’t mean you’ve been lied to, or that there was any ill intent in calling a lunch meeting a meeting.

By no stretch of the imagination would I consider this a lie. It’s an omission of detail perhaps, and I would construe it to mean that them missing the business lunch is not blowing it off because they decided to have lunch at Spagos, but because it was a client meeting. They would not be having lunch at Spagos on their own dime.

Even though it seems like it’s purely social, a lot of the soft side of business gets done at these sort of events, primarily in terms of relationship building, or at the very least, having the opportunity to present an idea hand have it heard in a favorable light.

Going to lunch with a buyer is the same thing. You may go to lunch with a buyer and have them pay for it, but the odds are you would not go to lunch with a buyer that you are no longer doing business with, even if you were friendly. If he/she takes you to lunch, they are trying to get your business by building on the fact that you are comfortable with them, and trust them. They will want to know what they need to do to get the business back. It’s not because you’re their friend.

Outrage? Where is the outrage. I just didn’t want to have to lie and I did not like that my manager lied to my face.

Anyway, we had lunch. There was a bit of discussion about where they all went, but I just kept my mouth shut. No one asked me directly, so I didn’t have to lie.

It’s not a meeting. The partner said lunch, not a meeting. You can all interpret it how you desire and I will interpret it the way I see it.

@tinyfaery ok, I’m glad there was no more discomfort. if you want to interpret it however you see fit, then no point in asking us, is there?

I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on whether it was a lunch or a meeting. I asked “I know that I will be asked why these 4 people are not joining us for lunch. What do I say? Do I just straight-up lie to everyone’s face just as was done to me? Do I keep the secret I’m not supposed to know about anyway? How do I deal with knowing I have been blatantly lied to? It’s hard to trust people who you know will lie to your face.”

Just like fluther, most gave their opinion about the situation (and things I did not ask about) and didn’t really answer the question. Oh well, I guess I should be used to opinons instead of answers. And I should expect smart-ass comments, too.

@tinyfaery A lunch meeting is just that. A meeting that takes place at lunch.

But, it seems like @tinyfaery is still uncomfortable. It will be interesting to see if the “meeting” is discussed upon the return of the people who attended, or if they keep it under wraps?

@tinyfaery Maybe ask you boss with a smile, “how did the lunch go?” Maybe it will make you feel better if she responds openly, or make you feel better when she stumbles around in her words and she knows you know.

It’s not a meeting it’s elbow-rubbing.

@tinyfaery You can’t know that. You weren’t there. (Methinks that may be the rub.) If it is a potential client acquisition meeting, then it may be only to familiarize the participants with the law firm and the potential client’s needs, to meet face-to-face to establish working relationships, but it is still a meeting. People are behaving in their work mode.

Think what you want. I don’t give a shit that I didn’t go. I was there while it was being planned, I helped the person who planned it send out video emails. I know what it is, you do not.

@tinyfaery what’s that you said about smart-ass comments? yeah, thought so

Yeah, you should know, huh?

this sort of thing goes on all the time. of course it’s favouritism. get over it. lunch meeting.

If someone asked you, I would matter-of-factly say “they’re at Spago with <Recruiter person>.” I didn’t get from your question that they expected you to keep it a secret. Then if there’s fallout, let them deal with it.

I’m not sure if I understand this part, but you said “one of our biggest clients is having a luncheon at Spago today.” Was the luncheon just for people from your firm or was it some event that said Recruiter put together?

Either way, I see no reason to lie. They went to Spago.

It matters if it’s a lunch or a meeting, because if it’s a meeting, you don’t have to lie. If it’s a lunch you feel like you have to lie.

But judging from how bent out of shape you are over this, which doesn’t seem explainable given what you’ve told us, it seems like there is something else going on here. It seems like you’ve lost something here, but I’m not sure what it could be.

This comment from a post of @tinyfaery‘s above leads me to believe it was indeed a meeting. in order to lure them into using our firm

The lunch was an attempt to procure business. Nonessential employees are often brought along as a perk or if they are someone the boss feels might get on well with the client. A lot of business is done through “elbow rubbing.”

I feel like if you answered any questions truthfully by saying, “they are having lunch with a client” or “they had a lunch appointment” no one would think it was inappropriate just because you didn’t specifically use the word “meeting.”

Update: They all came back. I was going to let it go, but I decided to give my manager a chance to lie to me.

I asked, “How did it go.”
She said, “Boring”.
I asked, “Were you able to get some lunch”.
She said, “Oh, I stopped and got McDonald’s on the way back.

So is it still not a lie? I doubt she stopped at Mickey D’s after Spago.

@tinyfaery Maybe they had lunch-sized portions.

Somehow it sounds like she feels that you are either disapproving or jealous that she was included in on the lunch. Whatever the reason for going to lunch is not exactly clear. She is erroneously making the assumption that by downplaying the lunch is somehow making you feel better about not being included. Perhaps she felt that you should have been included, but was not the one making the decision, and she felt a little guilty about going.

Talk to her about it, but don’t accuse her of lying. Spagos is supposed to be a big deal for lunch, and it would be nice to know how great it really was, and not be told that she had to stop at McDonalds on the way back; that makes her sound silly.

This should be a slam dunk for anyone in a confidential position. If the are trying to get clients it is a sales business luncheon meeting that can be and should be referred to as a business meeting as you were instructed.

While you are privy to some confidential matters you can’t imagine you know everything. The people whose attendance you questioned may have had reasons you were not told. I have worked in a similar position and learned not to question or discuss the motives of anybody who was behaving in a legal way.

Good for you.

I’m confused. How do you know she didn’t eat McD’s? I know you think she went to Spago, but there is some possibility that those plans changed. If she did grab fast food on her way back, doesn’t that lend credence to the fact that they actually were at a meeting instead of a lunch – meaning she didn’t lie in the first place and this is a nonexistent issue?

Why would you give someone “a chance to lie to” you instead of giving them a chance to tell the truth?

@tinyfaery I would ask your manager directly. Maybe say to her that you are still thinking about Friday, because you planned the meeting to be at Spago’s and don’t understand how they wound up at McDonald’s, but that you are confused and don’t know if you are supposed to keep that meeting confidential or what, but everyone seems to be acting secretive. That you would like to be sure that you are meeting her expectations, but feel like there was no clear message on this. You could maybe make up that some people asked in the meeting where she was and you were not sure how to respond. Or, you can let it go. I would feel like you. I think she is full of shit.

I wouldn’t worry about it, as you are privy to most the company secrets doesn’t mean you are privy to all. Some things are confidential even to you. Perhaps you have taken it too personally and see it as a “lie” whereas in companies there are issues that cannot be shared all the time. So they disguise it as meetings and so on.

I agree with the others that said ’ lunch meeting’ and that you really do NOT know anything for certain.

That was my take as well.

I think you are over reacting.