Without being under arrest, should the police be allowed to ask for a suspected illegal immigrants green card?

The same way you have rights when traveling abroad :)

But, not as a permanent resident.

You are also a temporary resident as a tourist. Human rights should be the same across all countries, no? Mutual benefit for all.

If I may, how can there be 30 million immigrants and be unwanted? Where do they work? I think to a substantial degree, the country is standing to benefit from cheaper labor, and—well deniability/lower risks. So, again some sort of unofficial mutual benefit going on?

Have you ever counted the number of American factories that have moved to Mexico, because of the cheap labor? its taken jobs away from Americans. do you think the Feds are looking the other way, just to prevent attacks on these factories in Mexico? money, is it all about the money? you still did not answer the core question.

1. I feel that the police should have the right to ask for a green card in any of the same situations where they would have the reason to ask a citizen for identification.

2. If America wants an empire, they should not be surprised that people all want to flock to the capital of the empire. It happened in Rome, and it happens here.

3. People have rights in America under the Constitution, which is one of the reasons America is great. One of these rights is due process under law, and this is true even for criminals. While I believe that illegal immigration is a crime and should be treated as such, they still have their rights.

I didn’t see a ‘core’ question – rather I saw a question about human rights. Money is always involved, it’s not necessarily about it. But it’s a medium that we use, so if you follow it, you’ll get to the rest of the reasons and purposes. Is America also losing money by buying so many things from China? Maybe, but up until recently and even now, redirecting that cheap labor is where most of the wealth came from no? Could be wrong, let’s keep it rolling :)

This law has little to do with why there are many ‘illegal immigrants’ (I hate that term) in America. There will always be illegal immigrants in America so long as they stand to gain more than they stand to lose by coming here. And I am all for it. People should be able to cross borders freely.

I agree with laureth on her #1 point. However, I also think that we are often asked unnecessarily for identification, and that the weight we place on security is far too much at the expense of privacy.

There is something called innocent until proven guilty. You are not a criminal until you are tried and convicted. You can not pick someone off a street and invade their privacy on a whim, on a vague suspicion, on the chance that your profiling may be accurate.

phoesbusq, i asked this question for this reason and maybe it will help you to understand where the police, across the nation, are coming from. on a certain corner, each Saturday morning, about 50 suspected illegal immigrants gather on a corner, waiting for someone to pick them up for a cash paying job. no taxes. while waiting, they drink lots of beer and throw the cans and bottles out into the streets. a police car can drive by and they walk away for about ten minutes.we suspect these are illegal immigrants, but are helpless to ask for their green card, unless they are under arrest. the courts have again handcuffed the police. illegla immigrants do not or have no bank accounts. they keep cash on their person or in their apartment. other thieves know this and assaults and robberies take place. adding to our crime rate. i have answered many call where illegals are driving drunk and have killed innocent people. again, no drivers license and no knowledge of the rules of the road in America. i am for anyone making it in America, but this is not the legal way and everybody knows it. the Feds are not helping the state and local law enforcement do their job, but constructing laws that aid in the illegals “right to stay in America illegally? something is terribly wrong and its not going to get any better. the numbers are growing. is anyone paying attention?

@john65pennington – Unfortunately, it is all about money. Business owners and even private citizens want cheap labor and they get it through hiring illegal immigrants.

To answer your question, I do think they should have a right to ask for a green card, as part of a routine traffic stop, etc… however, I don’t think they should be able to stop someone on the street or for no real reason, other than to find out if they are legal or not.

If they are illegal, what can you do about it? Call ICE? They will just tell you to release them. Catch and release is common, where there is a large illegal immigration population. We need officials that will actually follow the laws we have in place. If someone commits a crime (entering the country illegally or remaining after a visa expires) then they should be punished for that crime.

My hometown, Hazleton, has been in the middle of the illegal immigration debate, for the past few years. I’ve personally seen what happens to a community, when there is unregulated immigration. I’ve had only two crimes committed against me, since moving back to Hazleton. Both were by illegals. Does this bias my opinion? Yes. But, I’m only human.

I hear you @john65pennington – I would prefer it if they were more respectful of their guests. Have had a guide printer in their language with their expected conduct. There is a bit of a gap there – language, culture gap. On one hand, you need a good host – friendly, informative, helpful. On the other you also need good guests :)

I happen to watch Lawman with Steven Seagal – some good laughs, but also a look at the reality on the streets. He has had a couple of episodes focusing on those issues. Keeping money at home, attracting thieves.

It would be nice to find a mid-solution, make it easier for these 30 mil (holy crap, this is the pop of Canada) – immigrants, to get green cards, re-new, have bank accounts etc. They’ll come anyway.

On one hand the gov’ does not want to “let people in”, but they do, just not officially. Because then you have to spend more money to do this right. I hope I’m wrong there.
I also hope for all the above.

phoebusq, thanks for the honest comeback. one other point and i will leave. its about the proposed healthcare program. i realize good hones American citizens need healthcare, i see this everyday. once again, its about illegal immigrants. one proposed plan stated that everyone would pay for their own healthcare, that could afford it. lets look at that statement. do you really believe the illegals will pay for anything? they do not pay taxes now or for their own healthcare. they just go to any emergency room, present a fake document and by law, the er has to treat them. these people know how to circumvent the American system and they are playing it for all it worth. they send money, illegally back to Mexico, instead of applying some of it to Americas economy. have you ever seen a suspected illegal immigrant buying anything at Macys Dept. Store? i haven’t. but, they line up at the doors at Goodwill stores. this is my point. they are not paying their fair share to support themselves in order to live in America like the rest of us.

Wouldn’t an easier green card system eliminate that as well? You can tie in an insurance mandatory deal. As far as re-injecting the economy, certainly. Local economies need to work that way. But let’s not forget, Mexico does re-inject the American economy through trade. It all goes around.

Heck, I shop at Goodwill and I’ve never set foot in Macy’s either. But I do know that neither the House nor Senate versions of the health care bill gave free health care to illegals. The fact that we do treat emergency conditions at emergency rooms is a humanitarian thing (and the fact that the public picks up some of the cost is attributable to GWBush). The percentage of Illegals getting emergency treatment is tiny compared to the number of citizens that get it, and frankly, I’d rather live in a country that believes in some kind of humanitarian quality of “not letting you die because you can’t afford it” rather than knowing I’d bleed to death in the snow if I didn’t have the money. But – that’s neither here nor there on a post about looking at green cards. We return to your regular programming.

Laureth, you must live in a sanitary world. not a personal attack, but you really need to go out one night in police car and see just how America operates. i guess you also beleive there is no fraud in welfare, either….right?

Americans have rights under the constitution. I am not, however, aware of any rights granted to non-citizens. We have the normal obligations to treat visitors with respect but we have every right to determine the visitor’s status. I don’t see anything wrong with asking for identification.

You have to provide it when you check into a hotel or cross the border, or during a traffic stop. Why should it make a difference for an illegal immigrant?

@john65pennington – My grandpa was a Detroit cop during the 60’s race riots in Detroit. I suppose things have changed since then, probably for the worse, but he did tell some pretty violent stories.

Also, I’m pretty darn sure that there’s fraud in welfare, just like there’s fraud when rich people figure out their taxes. Some people are scammers, no matter what their income level.

However, I am unwilling to say “no one can get help” because I could, very easily, see me or a friend or loved one in a situation where they need help. I would much rather have programs in place to give that help. Yes, scammers, cheats and frauds will have some of it, but that’s a small price to pay for the larger number of people it helps. I mean, heck, lots of people steal from stores, but that doesn’t mean we have to close all the stores – because most of the clientele are honest people that pay for their merchandise. Lots of calls to 911 are fake, but we keep 911 because it’s an important service. I look at welfare and stabilizing care the same way.

@john65pennington
I agree with you.

laureth, great answer. glad to hear you had the police in your family. this makes you one of us and thats good. you understand where the police are coming from, since your grandpa was a Detroit officer. i know you are proud of him. john