Why are conservatives so much better at glib rhetoric than liberals?

Republicans are great when it comes to slander and smear campaigns. They fight dirty, and talk a lot of shit

i think they flourish because of an inane audience, like fungus in a dark room full of shit. Maybe you folks should pay a licence and get a proper Broadcasting Network like the BBC.

they are like (some) used carsalesman, most of them are full of “bathroom deb-ris!”

Voted Republican all my life until the hypocrites like Bob Barr, Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, etc. went after President Clinton. Comes to find out they had more women than the President. Have voted Democrat ever since. Acutally, i would be considered an Independent

Also, special prosecutor (Starr) put Susan McDougal in jail because she would not lie about President Clinton.

Presently, the Repubicans threw President Obama “under the bus” before he even took office. It was okay for President Bush to bailout the banks, but when my President did the same thing, all of sudden, he is a socialist.

Oh, forgot about “cry baby” Beck and the “Pillsbury Dough Boy,” they make a lot of money with their sound bites, but not much substance, just rhetoric! Rhetoric filled with lies.

Why don’t liberals do this successful? ummm…..good question! Personally, like people who tell the truth. Telling the truth does not attract a good following these days!

@wundayatta excellent question! Have a great day!

Conservatives by definition are trying to hold back the tide of change. But how much fun is that? It can’t be done. You can slow it down, but you can’t stop it. A wise conservative only tries to make sure change doesn’t happen without plenty of forethought.
Progressives by definition expect change to occur and try to figure out how it can be survived and maybe even guided. A wise progressive will take the time to think about consequences, just like a wise conservative. But progressives are by nature not as invested in nostalgia – not as angry, because the future isn’t as disappointing as the present.

So… if it’s in the nature of conservatives to be frustrated, then it follows that there will be conservative talk-show guys to express this frustration. They feel nasty and they act nasty, and their audience is excited to hear them lash out, because they too feel left behind, frustrated, bewildered, condescended to.
Progressives are always astonished by this, but they/we shouldn’t be. That’s our youthfulness showing. “Huh? You don’t like me? Why not? I’m nice!” That drives the
Becks and the Limbaughs up a wall, and maybe they have a point.

You don’t think that your perceptions are coloring who you think the assholes are at all?

Conservatism is a pathology. The afflicted are easily frightened and have limited ability to understand complex ideas. They love stereotypes and glib phrases, not when they are true, but when they reinforce their fragile and easily-debunked beliefs.

It’s easy to please an audience like that. It’s tougher if your audience can grasp and wants to know the complexities of the issues.

“People who startle easily in response to threatening images or loud sounds seem to have a biological predisposition to adopt conservative political positions”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/18/AR2008091802265.html

“intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic cliches and stereotypes, the researchers advised”
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Liberals just have an annoying obcession with the truth.~

@Judi- Short and sweet, with or without the tilde. Lurve. :)

@susanc: Beautiful answer. I love your point and I love how you made it without bashing either side.

Both sides are particularly good at being glib. Is it politics after all.

hmm….being an independent observer,,,,it seems to me liberals tend to be rather sanctimonious about knowing what’s best for everyone, while conservatives have tapped into a rather counterintuitive mainstream belief that government should get the hell out of our lives.

They want govt out of their lives and march down the street chanting about anti-socialism but they’ll complain to everyone that will listen if their social security check is a day late.

I would comment, but, being relatively conservative might get me a textual uppercut on fluther.. as liberals seem to flock here like it’s the last crust of bread in a vast desert.

They would be nothing without the cretins who listen to and support their claptrap…

I don’t know that conservatives are better with the media. They’re just more homogenous in their media preferences, and they’re more organized into hierarchical authority structures.

Liberals have a wide variety of opinions and ideologies and are involved in a wide variety of media. Whereas conservatives are pretty much unified around Fox News and talk radio and tend to have the same opinions handed down to them from on high (whether from their pastors or from media personalities).

Somewhat related, interesting article here.

Speaking very broadly, liberals seem to think that citing statistics, presenting facts, and thinking like a scientist are the best ways to present their case, and think that the choice will be clear to the listener. Conservatives (again, broadly) seem to think that a good story (whether or not it’s factually true) is the best way to inspire a reaction, so they aim at the emotions rather than the intellect. Whatever method you decide works best, there’s the incentive to become good at it.

Why do liberals whine and whine when they don’t get their way? It’s the liberals that are blind to the truth. You “liberals” approve of the murder of innocent children (Abortion), yet you won’t kill a man that has taken 13 military lives and was aware of his actions? You “liberals” give millions of taxpayer money to foreign countries for medicine, yet when it comes to hard working Americans, we have to keep going even when we are seriously ill. If you are so “liberal” and “accepting,” then why did you post this question. I don’t care if I make all the liberals mad. It’s just an internet account. Anyway, about the media. It’s because Conservatives can actually speak a full paragraph without yelling and it making sense. Geez I hate liberals.

@jackm – are you talking to me?

@ducky_dnl Just to address a piece of your remarks, I don’t think we give money to
people overseas to “help” them. I think we do it to keep them from getting so unstable
that they try to come here. Making good healthcare available to our own people is something else we have to do and if you say we’re doing a bad job, I agree with you.

Anyway, foreign aid is a kind of a prophylactic against immigration, something
most conservatives are suspicious of. What do you think about that?

@laureth, that’s a fascinating analysis. What if “we liberals” started trying to persuade with art (great storytelling) as well as math (great statistics)? Let’s start right now. You first.
Serious.

@ducky_dnl – Liberals don’t have the corner on the market when it comes to not getting their way. See: Tea Party.

@susanc I am talking to everyone who is smugly assuming they are the only people who could possibly be right about something.

@laureth are you a liberal? you’re not doing a very good job of “accepting” my response. hmmm, go read your masters new book “socialism of America” good bye!

@ducky_dnl proved my point “They fight dirty, and talk a lot of shit”, and then run!! ah ha ha

[Mod Says:] Flame off folks. Please refrain from posting if you have nothing beneficial to add to the topic.

Personal remarks will be removed.

Conservatives see their brand of bullshit for what it is. Bullshit.

Liberals feel a desperate need to actually believe their bullshit.

@Blondesjon and what is the bullshit?

@Violet . . . Every single thing that comes out of their mouths. It’s all two sides of the exact same coin and that coin is bullshit.

@Blondesjon what specifically?
This it what your argument sounds like:
“they’re stupid”
“why?”
“because they’re stupid”

@Violet . . . Liberalism and Conservatism were created to keep us all at odds with each other and oblivious to what the terms’ creators are actually doing, which is becoming more and more wealthy.

They created a way for us to perpetually fight with each other, with no hope of ever agreeing, because we chose one of their labels to brand ourselves with.

That is bullshit.

we’re the stupid ones.

@Blondesjon who are “they”? Are you into conspiracy theories?

@Violet . . . They would be the wealthy. Politicians, corporations, old money, it doesn’t matter where it came from, they call the shots not only in this country but everywhere.

That’s not a conspiracy. That’s the way it’s always been since we started hoarding shiny rocks as currency.

@Violet @Blondesjon is an interesting case in terms of identification. I would call him a radical independent. Or a blowhard independent. He seeks to make equal fun (or criticism) or both sides. It’s an interesting strategy, although his goal is not so much political as figuring out how to set off firecrackers in darkened theaters.

As such, he can slam all the “theys” in the world. It gets him attention, which is what he wants, and he doesn’t have to offer any facts. So don’t take it so seriously. He has a different agenda. And watch his radio show sometime. It’s very instructive.

@ducky_dnl says some interesting things. It’s the liberals that are blind to the truth.

Of course this assumes there is a knowable truth, which is what conservatives can do, and liberals can’t. So they can make fun of us for that and criticize us for that and we can only give a nuanced response, which loses every time when all you have are sound bites to argue with.

You “liberals” give millions of taxpayer money to foreign countries for medicine, yet when it comes to hard working Americans, we have to keep going even when we are seriously ill.

Now here’s a really interesting one. The dirty secret about foreign aid is that it is really covert corporate aid. Most of the aid requires the countries receiving it to purchase services American corporations.

Then the finish of that sentence is so ironic. Who is keeping hard-working Americans from having access to health care? Conservatives, of course!

If you are so “liberal” and “accepting,” then why did you post this question.

I posed the question because I was interested in the answers. I’m not sure what acceptance has to do with asking questions or not. Just for the record, I do advocate people letting others do what they want so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. Unfortunately, conservatives don’t believe in that kind of acceptance. They accept people who do what they think is right and true. Then they accuse us of being unaccepting because we don’t accept their lack of acceptance. Sorry bud. That dog don’t hunt.

@ducky_dnl – if it matters to you, I’m a social liberal and a fiscal moderate. Does that help?

@ducky_dnl, assuming you’re not a troll (which you never really can be sure), I’m going to respond to your criticisms of liberal philosophy. It will be interesting to see if you are willing to come back and offer a rebuttal.

• Why do liberals whine and whine when they don’t get their way?
—Not sure what you’re talking about. I mean, I recall liberals whining about Bush getting elected. I also remember conservatives whining about Obama getting elected. Specifically, conservatives alleging that he’s not an American citizens, and supporting secession. Why are you singling out “liberals”?

• You “liberals” approve of the murder of innocent children (Abortion),
— The entire abortion debate revolves around the question of “are fetuses morally equivalent to children?”

I don’t believe they are. I don’t believe a brainless clump of cells that has no feelings, no pain, no conscious thought, is morally equivalent to a child with a brain. I think that is an absurd position on the face of it. So I think that defining abortion as “murdering children” is simply an ignorant thing to say.

When the fetus reaches third trimester and has a functioning brain, then maybe it is fair to say it’s morally equivalent to a child. Maybe. I would be comfortable agreeing with the pro-lifers that terminating a pregnancy in the third trimester is possibly morally suspect and should be regulated. Which it is. (By the way, I also think raising animals in factory farms is morally suspect, and for the same reason that I worry about late term abortions—it inflicts suffering onto conscious, intelligent creatures.)

I’d be interested to hear your response to this, to see if it has any nuance and thought on your part, or if you’re just blindly repeating the things you’re told about the morality of abortion.

• yet you won’t kill a man that has taken 13 military lives and was aware of his actions?
— Because killing him without getting information from him would totally help prevent future terrorist attacks.

Sorry, I care about protecting innocent lives, not inflicting stone-age eye-for-an-eye vengeance. I don’t give a shit if he ends up in a cell the rest of his life instead of being killed.

• You “liberals” give millions of taxpayer money to foreign countries for medicine, yet when it comes to hard working Americans, we have to keep going even when we are seriously ill.
— There’s a lot to unravel here.

First of all, I’m not sure what you’re referring to about “giving medicine.” Like, medical supplies for Haiti and the victims of the tsunami? There’s this concept, it’s called “altruism,” based on “empathy,” a feeling that all humans have for their fellow human beings—with the exception of psychopaths. I certainly hope you’ve heard of it.

If you’re referring to sharing medical technology; it’s a science. Science works best if it’s open-source. And in fact, medical corporations patenting their corporate tech is part of what’s keeping health care costs for “hard working Americans” so high—why do you think perscription drugs are so expensive? You think corporations would share their medical knowledge with the world when they could keep it to themselves, patent it, and charge ridiculously high prices for it?

As for helping those hard-working Americans get medical care, I agree with you! We should be taking care of our own citizens when it comes to health care. That’s why I support the Democrats’ health insurance reform plans. I’d prefer the House’s, with a public option, but I’m okay with the Senate’s. Both would insure millions more of Americans and give money to working-class Americans to help pay for it. Do you support doing that?

• I don’t care if I make all the liberals mad. It’s just an internet account.
—I don’t care either; and you certainly didn’t make me “mad.”

I do care about debating our worldviews, though. So again, here’s hoping that you’re willing to come back and defend your argument.

• Anyway, about the media. It’s because Conservatives can actually speak a full paragraph without yelling and it making sense.
— Here’s your chance to support this assertion.

During the last presidential campaign, someone (sorry, I don’t remember who) posted a really interesting article on understanding the differences between liberals and conservatives. If I recall correctly, one of the points made in that article is that conservatives tend to hold the end (a concrete goal) higher than the means (the method of achieving it). That is, if the end goal is a noble one (in their eyes), any means to get there is acceptable… even necessary. As an extreme example, murdering an abortion doctor in order to stop abortion (the murder of innocent children, in their eyes).

On the other hand, liberals tend to hold ideals higher, so no matter how noble the goal, truth and fairness are even more important.

It’s very late, and I’m sure I’ve mangled this in some way. I hope you all understand what I’m trying to say.

@Blondesjon and @wundayatta I still don’t know what the bullshit is. Also, “They would be the wealthy. Politicians, corporations, old money” sounds like conservatives.

@Violet . . . Right. The Kennedys don’t have a dime.

Until you wrap your head around the fact that the powers that be only care about remaining the powers that be you won’t ever see what the bullshit is. Our leaders and lawmakers are not liberal or conservative. They are wealthy individuals that stay wealthy and in power because they have trained us to have discussions like these.

Instead of scrutinizing what they actual do for us on any given day.

I’m a moderate liberal and I know that some liberals use glib rhetoric too. And many conservatives abstain from using glib rhetoric, e.g. Colin Powell.

@Blondesjon, people who think politicians achieve nothing and serve no one are just as naive as people who blindly trust politicians.

Politics is a profession. Like many professions, there’s a lot of corruption. The fact that there is corruption, however, doesn’t mean we should throw up our hands with a conspiratorial, blanket “they’re all out to get us” attitude. The real world is more nuanced than that. There are some good politicians, and even bad, corrupt politicians can be pressured to achieve social goods.

@Qingu . . . I never said there was a conspiracy and I don’t believe they are out to “get” us. I simply believe that they have no other goal than to keep their positions/wealth and don’t give two shits either way about me. I understand though. You are reacting the way you’ve been trained to react.

The real world is not nuanced. We all fool ourselves into seeing it that way because it makes us feel better about the way the world really is. We don’t feel so ridiculous for constantly accepting the shit we are force fed and it makes us feel a wee superior because we are able to see things in such an enlightened way.

I do agree that politicians can be pressured to achieve some social goods. It’s just a shame that the caretakers of our national welfare have to be threatened with a loss of their power to make the “right” decision.

@Blondesjon “You are reacting the way you’ve been trained to react.”.. I think you are paranoid. And it is pretty obvious you are into conspiracy theories. If you don’t like America, feel free to leave.

@Blondesjon, see, you’re not actually more cynical than me—despite your whole “wake up sheeple!” thing you have going.

You’re just lazier than me. After all, it’s very easy to say “they” are all the same (whoever “they” happen to be) and say “the world is un-nuanced.” It’s easy to do nothing, and take no positions, and support nobody and nothing.

@Qingu . . . I didn’t realize it was a contest.

@Violet . . . I replied to the questions that you asked me about my various answers and now you want me to leave the country because my ideas aren’t the same as yours? How very . . . glibly conservative.

@Blondesjon I didn’t say I wanted you to leave the country. I said If you don’t like America, feel free to leave. Because all you can do is complain about the US government.

[mod says] Flame off, folks. Let’s not make this personal.

I know that @Qingu is not into conspiracy theories. If someone doesn’t like something about one’s own country and puts the energy into action (online debates is one form of action) to me this is actually a sign of patriotism. Make the country a better country. Some people are under the impression that patriotism is linked to conservative people only. Not true. Liberals have their own form of patriotism. If people really don’t care anymore there’s resignation. Critical thinking is too much of an effort. Why bother voicing criticism?

I agree with @Qingu comments above. I observe a lot of critical thinking which we should appreciate even if we don’t always agree with everything.

@mattbrowne who are yoiu talking to?

@Violet ; I would assume, “the collective.”

Exactly. I noted the debate got very heated. My point was that complaining can actually be a sign of liking your country. Not only showing appreciation. And this goes for every country. I appreciate a lot of things about Germany, but there are also many things I’m very critical about. For example I’m not very happy with out new government but I respect that the majority of voters wanted it this way. Westerwelle (who is number 2 after Merkel) for example is a selfish arrogant prick. I don’t like him. His blabbering about decadence and socialism and his inflammatory rhetoric about the welfare state reminds me of right-wing Republicans in the US.

Does this mean I don’t like my country and I should leave? Besides, where should I go? There’s problems in any country. And I still think that countries like the US or Germany or France or Canada or the UK are one of the best places to live when we take a deeper look at all the 200 something countries out there.

@mattbrowne is it patriotic to only complain about one’s government and say nothing good about it? If someone is completely unhappy with their government, I think it would be best for them to find a place where they could be happier.

@Violet . . . My statements above can be applied to any government.

Perhaps I could shoot myself off into space? @mattbrowne could probably help me with that . . .

@Violet – When a debate is about one particular subject only, in my opinion it’s possible to just complain. Fluther questions typically narrow down the subjects that are being discussed. One can never have a comprehensive list of opinions of another person. If one Fluther user posts 10 negative comments about one country we cannot conclude he or she thinks there’s nothing good about this particular country. Because there are potentially hundreds of positive comments which we haven’t seen yet.

Just one example: atheists in the US enjoy freedom of religion and free speech which includes not to believe and be critical about organized religion. If you are born in Saudi-Arabia as a Muslim and eventually you decide to become a Christian or an atheist you will be killed because the death penalty applies. So one good thing about the US is that it’s far more advanced than Saudi-Arabia and doesn’t take Saudi-Arabia as its role model. Which some of the religious right in the US actually do. They would love to establish a theocracy and march toward fascism and burn all gay people at the stake. Now we should criticize this all the time. We should be negative about political figures thinking in this direction. We should make sure something like this never happens. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. And vigilance sometimes has to sound negative.

@Blondesjon – Actually, I recently opened my own space travel agency. Great offers to choose from: space shuttle rides, laser-beam powered rockets, space elevators, and teleportation. Best vacation spots on numerous exoplanets for people who like adventure. We got great deals for space elevator rides with huge discounts, all available for a limited time only from. What are you waiting for?

@mattbrowne . . . I would prefer you simply folded time/space for me.

I’m always afraid that if I teleport I will be rearranged with my penis jutting from my brow. My detractors would finally be 100% justified in referring to me as a dickhead and I am highly allergic to smugness.

@Blondesjon in regards to @mattbrowne ‘s comment for me do you have anything truly positive to say about the US government?

@Violet . . . They dress well and their hair smells fantastic.

@Blondesjon lol! the US government?

@Violet- I think by US government he meant postal employees.

@AstroChuck I must admit, I have never smelled a postal worker’s hair

Now how am I going to get that image out of my mind? [shudder]

@jackm – oh, them. pfff

Because that’s all they have to stand on. Nothing out there to really support their accusations.