Health Care Reform updates. Anyone care to discuss this some more?

Eh, not really. I am cautious and hesistant to support it 100%.

As long as something gets passed I’ll be marginally pleased. I have always been in favor of health reform, and some of these changes are incredibly needed. I like the House bill better than the Senate bill, but what can you do… Neither is liberal enough for me, really. It sounds like Barack’s plan somewhat addresses a lot of the issues that House members had with the Senate bill which is good, too. Again, I just want them to pass something – it’ll be a building block for further reform.

Now if the public option gets added back in, that will be something I can get excited about!

Honestly, no.

Sure I’ll discuss it!

@Rarebear Well, go on then! It’s on Inq too….

Does anyone think that, yes, taxes may go up, but the cost of medical care will go down, making up for it?

Will it help small businesses in Health care/insurance?

As long as it overhauls the insurance companies without adding extra taxes, fines, penalties, and a requirement to purchase government-sponsored care, I think I’d be okay with it.

@Steve_A How small?

I would rather work to pass it than talk about it.

I don’t see it on inq, so I’ll do it here. The Senate bill was fatally flawed anyway and needed to be changed. The house bill was better.

I would actually be pretty happy with either a libertarian or a liberal solution. The libertarian solution is eliminate antitrust exemptions for insurance companies, allow the insurance companies to compete on the open marketplace, eliminate state boundaries, and allow people to pick and choose what kind of coverage they want much like they do with auto insurance. There would need to be coverage for poor, elderly, disabled, etc. But that’s the gist.

The liberal solution is a single payor, or some version of it. Public option, whatever. Allow people the choice between their own insurance and a public “Medicare for all”.

The Senate bill was basically a big give away to insurance companies.

@marinelife I understand your point, but I think it’s important to discuss it so that people can see that the majority of the people want this to happen. Without some discussions like this, you can’t help but assume that the majority of people don’t want it to happen.

But here….subscribe to this link

@Rarebear Thank you very much!

We just had to lay off one employee. He was the most recent hire (had been with us 8 years.)
When we let him go we saved $850.00 per month on medical insurance for him and his wife.
Something needs to be done!!

@Judi That’s what I’m talking about. That is absolutely outrageous. I believe the reform will address that kind of thing.

Yeah, My husband is thinking of laying ME off because the stimulis picks up 65% of the cost of COBRA when someone is laid off. I’m younger than him so our insurance is in my name.

@Judi LOL!! I kind of got stalled at “My husband is thinking of laying ME”....stop, rewind, reread and then read past that!

But COBRA isn’t really any good, is it?

One last comment….......30 million illegal immigrants are going to be insured and you and i are going to have to pay for their health insurance. they will not pay for health insurance and they do not pay taxes. whats wrong with this picture? need i say more???

@john65pennington That’s actually not true. It’s never been on the table in any of the proposed plans, let anyone anything that has been passed.

Illegal immigrants will continue to be treated in emergency rooms, as they are now, but they certainly will not be given health care coverage under the new plan.

@john65pennington I have read the bill. Well, a lot of it. It specifies that this applies only to “legal immigrants” and US citizens. Illegal immigrants will NOT be insured, any more than they are now. They will, however, have the same right to go to a hospital and be treated. Like they can do now. I can find and copy the sections pertaining to who will be eligible for it.

@fireinthepriory Darn it! You beat me to it.

@Val123 And we said almost exactly the same thing! Great minds think alike… :D

@Val123 , Cobra is the same policy, you just pay the employer who continues to pay the premium. (I’m in California.)

@fireinthepriory
Ah, but legalese is as much about what isn’t said as what is. I’d bet my next tank of gas that there’s a loophole, and that it’s going to be exploited, like that business about people born in-country are automatically citizens and how many people come here and have kids so that they can stay.

If we had UNIVERSAL health care, those illegal immigrants would be paying for insurance when it was deducted as a tax out of their paycheck when they offer bogus social security numbers to get their illegal jobs. I’m not dissing the workers. I don’t see a lot of unemployed white construction workers standing in line to work in the fields. If we want to eat, we need to appreciate these guys. I just wish we had real UNIVERSAL health care.

@Nullo Well, yes. But there are loopholes now, too. Should the entire American public continue to suffer with a criminally bad health care system so we don’t potentially introduce more? I don’t think so. Loopholes are unavoidable, bad health care is avoidable.

@fireinthepriory
Let’s not get our terms mixed up. The United States has some of the best healthcare on the planet. Not that many will be able to afford the good stuff under a single-payer system.

@Nullo First, the children of immigrants, legal or not, who are born in the States ARE automatically citizens now! So, that has absolutely nothing to do with the reform.
And we don’t have some of the best health care on the planet! That is good old American arrogance talking.

@Judi Not sure exactly what you’re saying….but if the illegals can get ahold of “bogus social security numbers,” I guess they could get jobs as though they were a citizen, and they can do that now.

That’s how they get the jobs now. I have a friend who is a farmer and he still asks for a social security card, knowing full well that it’s fake. By the time social security tries to verify it the season is over and the person is no longer working for him. Taxes are still deducted, but these workers never file and never get the refunds that might be due them if they were legal.
Penalties are high for hiring illegals so they find ways to cover the minimum paperwork with bogus social security cards so the employer can be in compliance by getting the required documentation. A social security card is pretty easy to forge.

@Judi I see….well, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the reform, does it?

If we had universal coverage everyone who works, legal or not would be paying into the system and fewer people would be getting “free” care like people are griping about.

@Nullo I said criminally bad health care system, not criminally bad health care. Of course, one begets the other for many people, don’t you think? Yes, anything and everything is available if you can afford it but are you willing to leave out the poor to suit your own needs over theirs? I’m not. I think the whole thing boils down to greed.

@fireinthepriory
I was referring to your closing words: “Loopholes are unavoidable, bad health care is avoidable.”

@Nullo Ahh. Yes, that should have been “a bad health care system.” Still… I feel our bad health care system begets bad health care – not for all, but for many many Americans.

@fireinthepriory
I’d go so far as to say that the actual health care system is also pretty good: we have good medical products and procedures, and access to them. The problem lies with whatever forces cause the prices for care and coverage to keep climbing.

@Nullo Admittedly, that’s a pretty big problem. I’d argue that access to medical products and procedures can be poor, even if someone does have insurance. If it’s not a “gold-plated” plan, many “elective” procedures won’t be covered (and cancer surgery can be considered elective unless you’re about to expire in front of the surgeon).

Moveon.org is having a campaign to get millions of people to call their senators TODAY to remind them that we don’t want them to give up on real healthcare reform. Senator Boxer’s number was busy, but I’ll keep trying!

@Nullo I guess we just mean different things by system… I’d say we all could have access to these good medical products and procedures. It’s a flaw in the system of implementing that care that some don’t have access to any. I’m sure that the top income brackets are 100% satisfied with their health care. That’s the same in almost any country though.

@fireinthepriory That is, the ones who can actually afford the premiums. You have millions of people who are trying to support families on minimum wage. They’re doing their part in society, but they can’t afford the coverage, even if their employers offer it.

Everyone gets an education regardless of income bracket. Why should health care be any different?

@Val123 I think you meant someone else, since I agree with you 100%. :)

@fireinthepriory I know you agree….. I was referring to your comment, “I’m sure that the top income brackets are 100% satisfied with their health care.” And adding to it. Sorry. Was a bit murkey, I’m afraid! :)