What would you do in this situation?

Short and sweet is the way to go.

Divorce her.

Are you better off with her or without her?

Stay and get scratched, slapped, threatened with a steak knife, etc repeated over and over…

It seems obvious that you are in a terrible situation and need to change it. My question is, what about your kids? It sounds like it could be dangerous for you to leave them with her. Is it possible for you to extricate yourself and the children too?

Why are we talkin’ about this? Let’s bug out and call it even, man! (Private Hudson, Aliens)

@janbb beat me to it. Can you leave and take the children with you? And the pets if possible? This requires, in my estimation:
1. A place to go that is within a reasonable driving distance for work. And if you can keep the children in their schools, that’s great. But they can adjust to a new school.
2. Knowing what things you must take along (Necessities for the most part.)
3. What happens to the bills in the current home? Are they in your name? Is this a house that you own or are you renting? You need to get out, but I think you might have time for some practicalities. You said that you started paying her bills the last time you left. How was she paying them prior to you doing that? Or wasn’t she?
4. Is she abusing the children physically or emotionally? This includes verbal abuse. If so, get them out now. Not that I’m saying it’s good for them to live with an alcoholic, mind you.

I’m guessing that she’s not amenable to rehab at this point. If you can convince her to go into an in-patient program, that would do a couple of things. One is that it gets her some desperately needed help and two is that it removes the biggest stressor in your life. From there you can take care of things like the kids, pets and house with a lot less “stuff” hanging over your head.

Primarily though, you need to work out a plan and get out. Especially if she won’t get help. I hope you can make it through this.

You need to read the book “it’s called a breakup cuz it’s broken” It’s generally geared towards females, but is co-written by a couple and the male side is spoken for too. You’ll never be able to leave unless you’re ready, and you’ll never be ready until you truly believe she will never change.

Start by documenting the situation. This is also called making a paper trail. If you don’t, it’s your word against hers. So….

Take photographs with date and time on it.
If she threatens you with a steak knife, call the police.
If she’s drunk and disorderly as bad as you say, call the police. Let them see it.
Get some counseling for yourself. Don’t ask us for answers!
Join Al-anon (or whatever is appropriate), and get copies of those visits as well to put in your paperwork.
Get a copy of all your interraction with your kids’ teachers. Schools keep notes on stuff like this. It will help to portray you as the responsible parent you are.

I have been in this situation, and creating a paper trail like this will save you big bucks on attorney fees. Judges don’t pay much attention to he said/ she said stuff. They do pay a lot of attention to papertrails.

And every time you call 911, every time there’s a doctor visit, every time she destroys your stuff, document it with a picture, or call the police and file charges. Every time you see your counselor, get a copy of the paperwork. And be sure to keep the paperwork in a secure place somewhere other than at home. After all that work, you don’t want it destroyed.

It’s important to document like this, because the woman usually gets the kids. If life is hell for you, imagine how bad it is to grow up like that, and have NO options?

Think she is using you, BUT you are a willing victim and she is making the most of your kind nature.

Does she go out to work?

Back off from doing everything. Go and do your job, then come home and ask why the house isn’t clean, why your mean isn’t on the table. Your household should be a shared thing, looking after the children should be a shared thing, shopping should be a shared thing.

Unless this is the case then she is taking advantage of you. If you are happy with this then stay as you are. If you can’t cope any longer, but with to stay with her, then you both need to sit down and explain to her exactly how you feel. If she either doesn’t listen, or join in with the household jobs, then I think you really need to start looking after yourself and perhaps even leave the life you are living at the moment.

It isn’t doing you any good whatsoever in the situation you are in. Start thinking about yourself.

You need to get out.

You need to take the kids with you.

You need to go and get some support through counseling.

Why are you just letting this happen?

How old are the kids? Why aren’t they doing chores, helping with dishes, etc.

Why aren’t you giving her an ultimatum about getting treatment for her alcoholism?

The fact is you know you need to leave, it’s no use telling you that. You need to work with a professional who can help you break the cycle because like a lot of abused people you can’t seem to break away from a horrible situation.

That is not a marriage you are Alice from the Brady Bunch you are a man servant! You seem to be doing everything and you seem very aware of this imbalance. Like Lucille asks, are you better off with or without her?

you can get an emergency order and have her put out of the house, if she’s as bad as you say. I know because my ex did it to me. You need to file the paper work now, the cops will come and give her 20 minutes to leave. you need to stand up for yourself and your kids.

God, I fucking hate women. I don’t have advice for you except to say that I feel terrible for your situation and it seems as if you deserve a lot more respect from your SO.

@Vunessuh : In a lot of ways I agree with you. I have to ask myself, “Why is this so difficult for you?” and for that I don’t have an answer.

@lucillelucillelucille : I believe I would be better off without her. I think my main concern is, what will happen to her and her kids?

@davidbetterman : Yes, and it goes on and on and on. Lately, aside from having things thrown at me, the violence has gone down a bit. I’m not saying this is a great thing, just better than it was. However, it doesn’t mean it won’t come back. It doesn’t even mean she may not try to kill me in my sleep.

@janbb : They are not my children. I have no legal rights over them at all. If I were to take them I would be a kidnapper. I may have the sympathy of the police when they arrest me, but they would arrest me because they would have to.

@tedibear39 : If I were to leave right now I would go to a hotel. I have a small amount of money that I’ve managed to set aside for this purpose. As I mentioned, the children aren’t mine so I can’t take them. I wouldn’t be able to get them all in one hotel room, either. The bills are not in my name, thankfully. However, I am on the lease for the rented home. I do not think she is abusing the children. I think the abusive behavior is directed towards me now, I don’t know what would happen if I weren’t there. Since I believe she is BPD I don’t think it would be long before that anger was directed towards them.

@Zajvhal I’m reading “Stop Walking on Eggshells” now. At first it was almost a euphoric feeling to be able to put a name to what I was experiencing for the past few years. Last night, though, it felt more like another burden had been placed on me. Up until yesterday I could say she was just a bitch and got what she deserved; now I wonder if I’m not being the jerk because she has a mental illness, doesn’t necessarily know what she’s doing, and without having proper help will never change.

@snowberry : These are all good ideas. I’m pretty sure the police have enough on record, though, that I don’t need to worry about most of them. I will be keeping documents about my psychologist meetings, though.

@partyparty : I’m sure she is using me. And, yes, I am that willing victim. Mostly because I’m afraid that if I don’t comply it will result in another barrage of insults and possibly violence. Which is dumb, because I could happily do what she wants and still get the same treatment.

@marinelife : Why am I letting this happen… That’s a great question, one that I hope I can answer with the help of my therapist. Things that jump out at me: guilt (she and the kids will suffer if I’m not there), fear of everyone hating me because I abandoned them. Also, she’s very good at spending money and that means it will be harder for me to be able to stay away. At this moment I have cash hidden away that would keep me going for a couple of days, unless I can find a real cheap motel. Even then, eating and driving will pose a problem.

@hug_of_war : You are right. I’m not looking for anyone to tell me what to do, just for tips or advice. Which I’ve gotten, and I appreciate. But, God, I do wish I knew why it is so hard to be in a situation like this when I know it’s bad. But I have an appointment with a therapist, so let’s hope with their help some of this can be straightened out.

@trailsillustrated : Right now I’m so exhausted with living that I wish she would call the cops and have an emergency order put on me. I no longer think I can deal with kids or a house or pets or anything else.

@Parrappa : It’s not just women. When I was younger and singler I knew women who were in similar situations. And I would always say to them, “That’s stupid. Just leave. Get out. Save yourself.” Ironic, eh?

These are the types of situations that make me wonder why we make a mockery out of gay marriage.

Puhleeze do yourself and your kids a favor and divorce this woman. Now.

@Parrappa

In case you didn’t read the question, you may have missed the part about the alcoholism.

I really hate to ruin your theories about women, but it’s a fact that BOTH WOMEN AND MEN ALIKE can end up addicted to alcohol and end up behaving in ways that they never would if sober.

The only difference is that, statistically speaking, when it’s the man who is the abusive drunk, far more women victims end up seriously injured or dead.

only you can get yourself out of this. I’d notify social services about the kids, then leave. It’s on you

@Zen listener

I guess my take on this is a bit different. As I read through your question several times, you mentioned that her drinking is what brings these extreme behaviors out.

Rather than assuming a mental illness (which may or may not be the case and certainly can’t be diagnosed over the Internet) it seems to me that what we have here is that you are in a co-dependent relationship with an addict.

In addition to therapy,which is expensive and takes awhile, you could also start going to Al-Anon meetings.

These are for families and friends of alcoholics. Here you will find real life support from others in similar situations.

You already know you have to leave, but actually doing so can be daunting. Having friends who have been in your shoes can be an enormous help.

I would be surprised if your therapist didn’t make this recommendation as well. These meetings are free and all over the country.

To find the nearest one just call the AA listing in the phone book. If transportation is a problem they normally can arrange a ride as well.

You’d be amazed at how much help and support will be available to you. But you’re the one who must pick up the phone and ask. Don’t you think it’s time for you to break out of this pattern?

@Buttonstc : The behavior is always there, it’s just amplified when she drinks. I know I’m not good enough to diagnose her, but it’s my guess that she suffers from BPD. From the research I’ve been doing (and still in the process of doing) she fits into that diagnoses very well. I would like her to go to some kind of treatment, but for me to even suggest it would mean that I thought she was crazy and, really, I’m the one that’s crazy and need therapy. At least, that’s what she would say to me.

I was going to Al-Anon, one time while she was away for over a month in a rehab clinic. It was somewhat helpful. When she came back home, though, all these amazing things would happen on the day of the meetings. Things that absolutely required my presence. Basically, she sabotaged my ability to get to the meetings.

It is daunting to up and leave. I really think that I need an intervention of sorts. I work on a plan for leaving. It’s kind of a cop-out, but it does make me think and did allow me to save up some money for an escape. So, while #1 is getting out, #2 on the list is changing my cell phone # on the same day so she can’t call me. I’ve already succeeded in hiding my workplace location.

@ZenListener How does she get your paycheck? Stop that right now. If you are having it direct deposited into a joint account, change it to a single account. Then give her a set amount of money into the joint account. Just deposit it as usual, but deposit less.

You should not feel guilt. Think of yourself as creating a better life for your kids by changing things on the home front.

You keep the car. Say you need it for work.

@marinelife She doesn’t get my paycheck. She gets a social security check that goes to her account. I can’t touch that money without her permission.

We have two cars: one with a breathalyzer and one without. It’s a daily battle keeping a hold of the one that doesn’t have the interlock.

One thing you haven’t mentioned is whether you stil have an emotional attachment to this woman. Whether or not you do, it is clear that you need to leave this situation. Since the children aren’t yours, you can either involve child protection services if you feel they will be at risk or just leave them to her care. Obviously something is holding you back and if you are seeing a good therapist, he or she shoudl be able to identify what it is. I understand your pain and wish you luck. Keep using Fluther; there are many really good people here.

Borderline Personality Disorder is now treatable. Read all you can about Marsha Linehan , and then try to find your wife a therapist who has been thoroughly trained in DBT. That doesn’t mean someone who once attended a seminar; it means thorough training.

Has intervention been tried,with family and friends taking part? Even if you leave, the children need healthy space and perhaps intervention would help them. Most definitely you need proper rest to even think at this point,and I sincerely hope you get it.

Think you are letting this happen because basically you are a decent person, and you care about your wife and children.
As you said, you get abuse whether you complain or not.
Pluck up the courage and get yourself and your children out of this situation, as soon as possible.
Children know much more than we adults give them credit. They will know things aren’t as they should be. Good luck. I wish you well

@janbb : I love her, I care about her. But I also hate her. I will be starting therapy next Tuesday. I specifically asked for someone who has knowledge of BPD, so hopefully I can some tips and pointers on not going bonkers.

@dpworkin : I think it’s going to be difficult finding a therapist for her. The hardest part will be getting her to go. She’s not a… doctor person, to put it mildly.

@YoH : No, no intervention. If there was one, she would take it as a group attack, not as a group of people trying to get her help. If I’m correct and she suffers from BPD since would probably be a waking nightmare for her. Also, I’m not convinced that interventions work unless the person wants to be helped. She says she wants to stop drinking, but puts so many conditions on rehab clinics that it’s virtually impossible for her to find one that she would willingly go to.

@partyparty : They aren’t my children, so I won’t be able to take them. I could only take myself. The saving grace there is that I think they would understand why I left. Thank you for the well wishes.

Borderlines are generally treatment resistant, that’s why I suggested you learn all you can about DBT. There are strategies to get people help, and the therapy, amazingly, has been proven empirically to help in more than one peer-reviewed study.

Are you married to this woman or not? It’s not clear to me from your details. You have to establish whether what you want is to help her or to extricate yourself from the situation. As I said, your therapy should help you decide.

@pd

I’m just curious about something and perhaps you can clarify this for me.

From everything I’ve read and been told, treatment for any mental condition is fruitless when someone is in rampant unchecked active addiction.

Basically your’re dealing with the drug (or booze) rather than the person. Everything is masked.

I do know that they have rehab programs specifically designed for those with a dual diagnosis of addiction/mental disorders.

But the operative principle there is to get the person out of active addiction so that whatever else is also present can then be properly diagnosed and treated and/or medicated.

Many addicts with mental illness of all types self-medicate in an attempt to deal with the underlying problem so it’s certainly not surprising to find both conditions present.

But alcohol and drugs effectively mask so much, how can anything be dealt with in an individual who is in active addiction?

I BELIEVE IN YOU…the only way out is THROUGH…it will not be easy…but no matter what you do, you can’t stop the clock, and the first day you leave will quickly be followed by many others.

Do the kids have grandparents? Get yourself out of the situation, change your phone number, cut off ALL contact with her so she has no control over you.

Then plan. Figure out a way to find help for the kids while still caring for yourself. It’s like being on a plane that’s going down…you have to fit the gas mask on yourself before you secure the child sitting next to you. If you can’t take care of yourself, how will you be able to truly give assistance to them to get the flying hell out?

The minute details will sort themselves out as you come to them. Get as many outside professionals interested and involved as possible and get healthy. It’s a long road ahead but all uphill towards a better existence.

This type of thing can very easily eat away at your sanity…You need to re discover who you are again, without this leech of an individual. A very very sick person.

You’ve got this. One step at a time, don’t think about what you’re doing, just DO IT. If you stop to analyze, you might talk yourself out of it. You know the right direction involves putting distance between yourself and this woman. That’s all you need to know. The rest will fall into place if you stay true to yourself and keep the kids in mind without letting her guilt you into giving more $$$.

@Buttonstc In many disorders, co-occurrence with substance abuse is pretty much the norm. Alcohol isn’t part of the diagnostic criteria for Borderline, but one is never surprised when someone self-medicates. Since self-medication is a different issue than addiction, very often the onset of helpful therapy mitigates the substance abuse. Of course you are correct that in the case of a true addiction, that must be dealt with first.

@Buttonstc : I had heard that, too. Even that nobody would even bother to try and make a diagnosis until the addiction is taken care of. In my wife’s case, I don’t think it’s an addiction, I think it’s more like what @dpworkin says: a way to self-medicate the empty hollowness she feels inside.

If that’s the case, then she’ll never be able to be diagnosed.

What I’m wondering is, should I call her lawyer and tell him about my concerns? What would happen if I did that?

@Bronny : Thank you for that, really. The grandparents aren’t able to do a whole lot, but you’ve convinced me that it’s time I bring them into my “planning.” I’m sure I’ll have their support since they can’t figure out why I’m still here, either.

This sounds like the best choice, and the most responsible one. Don’t let someone elses lack of mental and emotional stability make you unsure of your own wits. It’s not strange that you have stayed. I understand entirely. I was married to a man who was a small fraction the nutcase this lady is. I understand what has kept you there. But now you have to leave. And you are. Carefully. But you’re leaving. You don’t even need to concern yourself with what is wrong with this woman soon enough. It will no longer be your burden, or your problem. You’ll be free. Even now, it is no longer your responsibility to solve her problems or figure her out any more than you already have. Recognize that her disease has been a nightmare, but no longer can it claim your insides as it’s home and festering ground… she can not be a part of who you are any longer. bitch.
and hell yeah to you.

Punt

I’m sure @dpworkin knows a lot more about this than I do, so I would follow his suggestions. I just have one idea—persistently ask her to check in to the hospital. No threats of forcing her in, just quiet persistence that this can help her.

She’s in a lot of pain. I’m not sure what the pain is like, but it has to be powerful and she only knows how to treat herself with booze. There are options. Research the options. Research her symptoms. Urge her to let you take her to a psychiatrist. Learn what the treatment options are. Educate her about those treatment options.

It is a quiet, lowkey, long term plan. It is to build her understanding and willingness to get treated. It is also to show her you do love her and you will stand by her. I mean, I don’t see you leaving, so you might as well make it clear to her that your support is strong. But also based on the condition that she take advantage of the help that is available.

Sometimes we choose to martyr ourselves. That seems to be what you are doing, to some extent. You have chosen to be this woman’s support system at the expense of your own life. You probably derive a lot of meaning out of this mission. Maybe you want to be admired for how much you put up with. At least supported in it.

Most people here advise you to look after yourself first, but you remain concerned about the kids, and rightly so. If you do leave, make sure that family services knows about the situation. They might keep an eye on her if they know, although in my town, that probably wouldn’t be the case.

It’s a really tough situation. But I hope you can believe that if you do choose to stay, it is for good reasons (the kids, getting her healthy) and you will be able to be proud of those things, even when people look at you like you’re nuts. You’re not nuts. You have a great deal of empathy, concern, and a strong sense of responsibility. Do what you need to do, even if it means staying to put up with her shit.

@wundayatta : I don’t know that I can stay anymore. I mean it when I say I’m exhausted. It’s affecting my work, my personal life (which I really don’t have any more), and my relationship with the kids. I snapped at my step-daughter this morning because she accused me of not doing something. I was sure I had done it, I remembered doing it and she had no right to criticize me for it. In retrospect, she’s probably right. I was half-asleep when I thought I turned the dryer on; I probably thought I did, or dreamed I did. Now she’s mad at me, and I don’t even know if I should apologize or not.

My primary advice is to protect yourself first, then the children. It sounds like you are exhausted. Maybe you can get CPS involved, and legalize your relationship with the children by becoming their foster care, so that all of you can live together elsewhere.

@dpworkin : I don’t think I can do that. I left last time thinking that I could stay away. But, because of the kids, I made sure I was always contactable. And as long as she has a way to contact me, I think I will always get drawn back in. I think if I need to go, then that means losing contact with her and, directly, with the kids.

I could still communicate with her mother and brother, though. I don’t think they would give me up but still be a conduit back to the children if they need something.

@ZenListener You are having suicidal ideation over this. You really have to look out after your own best interests. I needed therapeutic help to leave an abusive wife. It took 3 years, but eventually it worked, and I have been much, much happier since. At least look around and see what’s available to help yourself. I should never have encouraged you to seek help for your wife before protecting yourself, and I apologize.

@dpworkin : I don’t think you did that, so no worries. I know children are important and they need to be protected, I just don’t think I have that ability any more.

I would like to thank everyone for their participation. Really. You’ve all been a help for me and I think I know what the correct course is. Now it’s a matter of following it and getting on with life.

Good luck!

@janbb Thank you :)

If you have contact with the children’s grandmother and Uncle, you should let them know how bad the situation has gotten. Tell them you are on the verge of calling Children’s Protective Services. The relatives have a legal right to the children, and that would solve a part of your reluctance to go.

If you have not already, confront her, by that I mean brutally take away her addictive sources. She will go nuts, she will get desperate, but she will calm down. Then you can talk. Also remember to make sure she knows you are doing this because you love her.

If she won’t, call relatives or authorities. Tell them about the situation and be mature about it.

As for the kids, I really cannot give you advice for them.

@ZenListener Just scimming the story. You have my sympathy. Dpworkin is a professional, and he’s dead on.

I have ocaisionally been in similar but not as horrible situations. If the partner is willing to do “marriage” counseling then there is a remote hope. If not, you need not feel guilty. You might be providing motivation for change. These are not your kids, so clearly others moved on. You are not atlas.

If she gives you reason to hope. Reason to take the risk that this might end in serious harm to you, and you are willing to shoulder that risk….

BPD. Horrifying. I am encouraged to hear there is therapy. Such persons make my life difficult. I play the Teflon game with them. (no – not friend or foe. I am Teflon. Nothing sticks. I am indifferent) To late for you however.

@DrMC I’m no professional. I’m just a stoont.

@dpworkin could’ve fooled me anyway

Then I had better be more careful.

@dpworkin I like to preface “I’m not an expert..”

I also like the “If you or a loved one,” but that’s another angle on it ; )

I like a lot of evil things.

My next avatar may have red skin

Muahahahah

@dpworkin isn’t a professional, but he plays one on television.

There’s kids in this situation. If you are tired of their mother drinking, and being violent when drunk, how tired do you think the children are?

Unless you can get her to get help, you need to get out, and to take the children with you.

@Janka : They aren’t happy about it. I’m well aware of that. Unfortunately, I would not be able to take them with me. That’s part of the guilt about leaving.

If you can’t take the kids with you then you have to stay to protect them. Make the kids double up and get your own room. Pretend like you’re a single parent with a room mate, because it sounds like at this point you’re a single parent with a really crappy live in babysitter.

@Judi : The other night I was exhausted. After working, cleaning, cooking, cleaning, and laundry while my wife did nothing but sit on the computer. I also listened to how I ignore the family. When everyone was in bed and I was waiting for the washing machine to finish, around 11:30pm, knowing that I would have to get up in about five hours I thought that I could get the rest I desired if I had the barrel of a shotgun stuck in my mouth.

This is not a normal thought for me. The thought of death doesn’t thrill me because as far as I’m concerned, no consciousness for the rest of eternity isn’t a nice thing at all.

I’m here, now, because of the kids. I’d like to tell myself that it’s the only reason but there’s probably more to it.

Even now, after a day of exhaustive cleaning, to avoid a major blow-up with this woman I agreed to drop her off at a bar. And in 45 minutes she’ll be calling me to pick her up. I’ve been up since 5am this morning.

I’m going to die if I keep this up. And living in a different room isn’t going to do anything but trigger more explosions from her.

I will probably end up doing what I don’t want to do, which is to get someone else to call CPS.

I’ve asked this question before, but how can you leave the kids with her? Imagine how bad it is to grow up in situation like that and have NO options? I don’t get it.

Have you gone to or talked to anyone at alanon? They may have resourses or experience to help you through this. You can’t abandon your kids and you can’t enable her behavior. Seek the help of local people who have been in your shoes. Call alanon today!

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but if what you describe is the reality of the situation, I do not think you can morally just up and leave an leave the kids in it, and it does not sound like you can just stay in the situation either (even if you could do that without dying, it would not be good for them).

So, if you for some reason cannot take the children out with you when you leave, you need help solving that problem.

I do not know what is the proper place to contact for help in your country—in mine it would be the local child protection agency, and you mention CPS too—but whatever it is, you should contact them. Here, you can call them yourself in this sort of situation, you do not necessarily need to get someone else to do it, and them being involved does not mean it is custody taken away instantly; there are other things they can do.

Good luck. Be strong a little while longer, so that you can get both yourself and the children out of this trouble.

Is there no father in the picture? I have heard that it is possible for the courts to name responsible person to be the guardian of children, perhaps you could petition the courts.

Does everyone posting understand that the children are hers and not his?

How long have you been with your SO? Do the children think of you as their father? If so, then perhaps you could gain custody of them. Are you strong enough to do this on your own, if you were allowed to parent them?
You really do need to seek legal advice.

@ChaosCross Yes I think it is a case of being cruel to be kind in this situation. I agree entirely with what you have said.

@janbb Yes I am aware of this

@janbb I am aware. But they are children in danger, he knows the danger, and is involved in it. If he leaves and cannot or will not take the children, at least he has the responsibility to make sure the child protection agency or a responsible other relative will take care of them. It does not matter whose children they are, they are children.

If he leaves, the CPS will fault him for abandoning them. At least that’s the way they see it in the states I’ve lived in.

@Janka Agreed.

@YARNLADY : No, sadly their father died in an accident a few years ago.

@partyparty : That’s a good question. I guess it’s about seven years now, all in all. I don’t think the kids think of me as their father. I’m pretty sure they don’t. I might be able to gain custody of them if I adopt them, but that would be quite a legal battle. I would need to hire an attorney.

@Janka : Child services are now aware of the situation.

@snowberry : No, CPS would not fault me for abandoning them. They are more aware of my legal standing than I am. They have to ask for my cooperation and understand that I can, it seems, just pack up and leave if I so desire. Or can find the strength to do. Whatever it is that keeps me locked down.

The excuse I’ve been using to stay in this situation is that it was for the kids. The truth, though, is that I’m losing the respect of the children just by being in this situation. What they see is me being insulted and pushed around by their mother. And I don’t blame them. What’s beginning to happen is that they’re treating me the same way. I can’t get any help from her to remedy the situation and in a lot of ways she directly goes against rules that I set or punishments that I administer.

A friend of mine said that I’m no use to them dead (can’t argue there). It may not (probably wouldn’t be) because of suicide, it could be that she just gives me a heart attack or something. She also said that I wouldn’t be much use to them if I went crazy, either. Her view is that I should get out of the situation, get myself back on my feet, emotionally and financially, then I’d be able to help them more.

@ZenListener I am glad to hear the CPS is involved. Your friend is very correct; you cannot help children if you are not in the shape of doing so yourself. You are also yourself very wise: abusers are not good for children, but someone who allows abuse to continue is not a good role model for them either. I think you are going towards the right direction here, and much courage and luck to you in the future of it all.

OK, so CPS is involved. I assume from what you have said, that the children have witnessed her threaten you with a knife, attack you at different times, etc. When acts of violence are performed in the presence of children, or even if they are in the house, that’s called a felony where I’m from. How is it that CPS isn’t doing something about this or charging her, or something?

Oh, no, they haven’t seen much beyond me getting yelled at and kicked out of the house. She reserves all the good stuff for when they’re away.

CPS isn’t doing anything because they think I’m the greatest thing since sliced bread, and everyone else they talked to said the same thing. So they want me to care for the kids.

Did you tell the CPS that you are not going to continue the relationship with this woman, and that will mean you will move out? They can want a lot of things, but they cannot force you to not divorce, and it is their job to help you do that in a way that will help the children.

@Janka : No, I haven’t yet. I just got back from my first therapy session, though, and I’m hoping that will start to clear up issues with me and my inaction. We’ll see how that goes.

@ZenListener Well, you need to show them the bite marks, the scratches, the bruises, the photographs of your wrecked stuff, and so on. If you walk in to talk to them, and lay it all out like that all of a sudden, they might not believe you, unless you have proof (pictures with dates on them, notes from the ER, etc). Once again, the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. But if you don’t document, you’re screwed.

I just noticed you and MaccMann have a lot of similarities in your situations. I suggest you get to know each other because you might be able to help each other. Here are his questions.

http://www.fluther.com/disc/75391/how-do-i-tell-my-wife-that-i-think-her-iud/

http://www.fluther.com/disc/73296/how-do-you-tell-your-spouse-you-think-she-may-have/

@snowberry : They have everything I have right now.
And I’ll be checking out those questions. Thanks :)

@snowberry : I don’t think my wife’s mental state is related to hormone factors. In a way, it would be nice if they were. For instance, her changes are not based on her period; they happen on an almost daily basis. Fairly mild when she’s sober, very harsh when she’s drunk.

@ ZenListener. I know the wives are different. Never thought otherwise. Yeah, but the similarities are there, nevertheless. You both are in a terribly difficult situation. Both of you have questions about how to deal with the authorities, how to manage your time, your energy, how to talk to yourself, deal with kids, etc questions of how/when/why to leave, you both deal with all of that in spades.

@ZenListener Way to go for taking steps for better! Good luck to you and yours.

I just realized that I have basically compromised most of myself for the majority of my marriage to “keep the peace.” I was never really able to admit it to myself till now.

Check this site out. Sign up for the newsletters. DO NOT let her see these as she will see them as threatening her power-base. David (the author) recommends that you let your wife read the stuff there, but if your wife is anything like mine, she’ll see this as a threat and try to use it against you. Just an FYI.

http://www.makingherhappy.com

I don’t take everything he says as gospel but he did put a lot into perspective for me.

DON’T be a pushover. One thing that he states in his writings is “If you can’t stand up to her, how will she know you can stand up FOR her?”

You can’t let her control you like that, man. It’s not healthy for anyone. And think of what you are showing your kids.

@snowberry : Yes, that’s true. I suppose there are some similarities.
@maccmann : I totally agree with you. I’ll check out that site and see what’s up. Thanks :)

@Janka : Thank you :)

I checked out that site also and if you were planning to stay, I guess it could offer some tips.

But the difference between your situation and maccmann has one critical component.

In your situation it is certain that there are two root causes which need to be addressed before there is any hope of progress, namely addiction and major mental health issue needing accurate diagnosis.

Without those two critical components being addressed, everything else is just a “band-aid” which will not provide any long lasting meaningful change. The root of the problem has to be dealt with in order for that to happen. Without some willingness to cooperate on her part, that won’t happen.

There is no question in my mind, personally, that she is an alcoholic. People who have breathylizer ignition locks on cars have them due to alcoholism, pure and simple.

That’s not something imposed lightly. That is serious, out-of-control addiction to alcohol.

Until her brain clears up a bit from the booze, an accurate diagnosis can’t really be made because all you’re dealing with is the booze. She needs to be in a rehab facility experienced in handling dual diagnosis patients.

I hate to be so blunt about it, but that’s just the plain straightforward truth as I see it. I know that the opinion has been expressed that the main problem is BPD and the alcohol just makes symptoms worse, but she’s not really an alcoholic.

That’s just denial. It’s a disease of denial. Not just the alcoholic themselves, but frequently those dealing with the alcoholic. It’s hard to believe it could be that simple.

But the irrefutable fact remains. People who are not alcoholics do not have breathylizer ignition locks on their cars. That is reserved for ALCOHOLICS. The breathylizer is testing for ALCOHOL.

I think that the whole chicken and egg discussion between BPD and alcoholism is fruitless. What matters at this point in time is that the Alcoholism must be dealt with first because it obscures everything else.

It’s clear that you need to get out of the situation as soon as possible and I realize that it will be a tremendously difficult step for you. That’s the primary reason I suggested Al Anon in addition to the therapist.

These people have all walked in your shoes. If you don’t feel comfortable at one meeting, try a different one. Every group has it’s own Gesalt and one may be a better fit for you. I went to about half a dozen different ones before settling down with a couple that were the most comfy for me. This is the time when you need all the help and support you can muster. It’s good that you have recognized the need to leave. Now comes the difficult part of actually doing it. We’re all rooting for you.

@Buttonstc : I never claimed she wasn’t an alcoholic. I just don’t feel that alcoholism is the only issue here. If psychological problems are at the root of the alcohol problems, then I would think treating the alcoholism would be more difficult to treat.

I would love to get here into a rehab place that managed dual diagnosis but I honestly have not found one in my area. In my area, you have 12-step or nothing. The only places that might handle dual diagnosis patients do not take insurance and, since their fees are in the ‘astronomical’ realm, it would be impossible for her to get into one.

Couple that with the fact that she says she has religious issues with 12-step programs (although I believe it’s mostly because a BPD guilt issue) then she won’t go to one.

There are places out of state that can do the trick but, because she’s on probation, she can’t go there.

I’m fine with going to Al-Anon. I only stopped going because every time I made plans to go an “emergency” sprang up that required me at home. Once I’m in a position to make my own schedule I will, more than likely, go back to them. At least for a while.

@ZenListener; I paid over $70,000.00 for my son to be in a dual diagnosis place for 2 months. He would probably be dead or in prison by now if I had not been able to afford it.

@Judi : That’s a lot of money. Money I just don’t have. :( But I’m happy to hear that your son isn’t dead or in prison.

It was VERY expensive. After he left the hospital he had outpatient treatment and were close to $200,000.00 before I fought with Social security for 3 years and finally got him on disability. Bye bye savings.

I know that this is really a long shot, but if I were still in a situation with an active alcoholic and limited funds, I would at least give it a shot. Nothing lost by trying.

There is an ongoing tv program called Intervention. There’s also a website you can check out. It’s on A&E.

They pay the total cost of treatment at some of the finest facilities in the country.

Initially, the addict only knows that they are participating in a documentary about alcoholism or addiction.

As I said, it’s really a long shot, but your writing a letter to them certainly couldn’t do any harm. You never know.

The primary reason I emphasized the alcolism as much as I did is because treating for BPD in hopes of curing the alcoholism is exactly backwards to how it is done.

Any responsible mental health professional is going to take the approach of getting the person out of active addiction FIRST. that’s the only way that an accurate diagnosis can even begin. You are assuming BPD. It could actually be one of several things for all we know. It could be Bi-polar disorder, it could be Narcissistic personality disorder, it could be Borderline personality disorder, or it could even be Paranoid schizophrenia for all we know.

The bottom line is that it is necessary for a diagnosis to be made by a Psychiatrist. And until someone is out of active addiction, an accurate diagnosis is not possible. Notice I said accurate diagnosis not guesstimate. The alcohol masks too much.

This is why any responsible mental health professional doesn’t do it backwards. They insist that the person needs to be out of active addiction first.

Then whatever underlying mental health problems can be diagnosed and treated to prevent a relapse back into addiction.

You don’t have to take my word for this. Ask any Psychiatrist what the protocol is for dealing with this. Ask your therapist.

Anyhow, I’ll just leave you with one more little hint for being able to attend Al Anon meetings. Don’t let her know that that’s where you’re going. Of course she doesn’t want you to go and can doubtless arrange whatever distractions are necessary to keep you from going.

Look at it from her side. She has a really well-trained enabler here. Why mess up a good thing :)

Obviously you are beginning to come to your tipping point on this and when you are truly sick and tired of enabling her, you’ll begin getting healthier until you find the strength to leave. The more resources you can summon for that the better the chances of success.

The primary reason I’m encouraging towards Al anon is because they are there physically in your area in the real world. They can offer practical real world help and resources.

We here on the Internet are limited to our encouraging words and good wishes for you.

But this is one of the biggest battles of your life and you need real world resources as well.

@Buttonstc : I’m not arguing with you the alcoholic/mental disorder thing. I know that’s how it goes, I just don’t know how you can fix one without fixing the other. But, you know, that’s not my field of expertise.

Getting onto Intervention would be interesting, but I have very deep doubts about how effective it really is. She’s not ignorant about how she’s ruining everyone’s life, or about how much everyone cares about her, or anything else. She would be going to rehab right now, if she were allowed to leave the state.

After last night, I’m pretty close to ending the whole “enabling” thing.

Just to briefly clarify. It’s not a case of curing one and not the other.

It’s more like eliminating the masking effect of the alcohol IN ORDER TO TREAT BOTH.

In order to treat any mental disorder, ACCURATE diagnosis is so critical that it can’t be emphasized enough.

Without that, it’s just stumbling around in the dark to find the correct medication to relieve the symptoms enough to still enable functioning. Even with accurate diagnosis it’s a matter of trial and error. But at least it narrows things down somewhat.

Throw alcohol into the mix on a continuous basis and it’s a nightmare. This is why it must be done with the person in a facility where it’s certain they aren’t drinking while they’re there.

The assumption is that the right medication can provide the relief that was sought by drinking. This presumes that the person was using the alcohol as a form of self medication.

Curing one or the other sets up a false dichotomy. Plus it’s mor a case of managing. Neither serious mental illness nor addiction are really “cured” they are managed.

But the hard truth is that it’s impossible to even start trying to manage mental illness with booze throwing a monkey wrench into the works. It’s effects on the mind are just too powerful. Plus, many psychiatric meds have the potential to be fatal when combined with alcohol.

It’s a difficult situation all around. It’s certainly beyond your (or my) capability to handle.

The whole situation of out of state travel and probation restrictions shouldn’t be what prevents you from writing to the producers. You’d be amazed what strings can be pulled by production companies with smart lawyers. Plus, it’s not as if they are trying to deceive anybody or game the system. Any judge would realize that an inpatient facility presents a much greater chance to deal with the underlying cause of the situation and a possible solution.

“Any judge would realize that an inpatient facility presents a much greater chance to deal with the underlying cause of the situation and a possible solution.”

In a sane world, yes. Not where I come from. Where I am, the important thing is “being tough on crime,” although it’s not as important as making sure you keep the money train rolling. This isn’t just my personal opinion, either. It’s been verified by no less than five lawyers.

If a film crew were to show up and ask that she be allowed to go to their rehab clinic (or however it works), I’m sure they would have to pay money to make it happen. In one form or another.