How do you feel about the Obama administration's stance on the Turkish genocide of the Armenian people?

Can you post a link? I assume that their stance is that they will not declare it a genocide, and that this is for wishy-washy political reasons; is that correct?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0306/turkey.html

WTF? I don’t get why this is a priority either way. And, it’s weird that GW “Crusade” Bush would come out against it. We must be trying to keep things on an even keel so the military can continue to use their airspace and bases, etc.

I don’t see though how making or not making a declaration makes a whit of difference other than helping determine who is angry at who over something that can’t be changed.

I feel about the same as I did when he was elected. I knew he was no saint and he would be no better than anyone else as president. Our presidents are hand-picked by some sort of money-power elite group who has been controlling the US government since the coup d’etat took place when Kennedy was assassinated in ‘63.
I also believe if we are going to criticize other nations for genocide, we should be honest enough to mention our own genocides. Like what the US did to the Native American Indians to steal this country from them.

@kevbo He promised during the election campaign that he would change the Bush era policy. How would you feel about a Holocaust denier as president of the United States? Any whits of difference?

What’s changed? Did you beiieve the rhetoric of “change” the first time around?

I realize what happened to the armenians was bad, but seriously, wtf would it change now? Its not like we’re talking about calling Darfur a genocide or not, ya know something that is still going on and could be changed. No, instead we’re arguing about the events that took place during WW1

I have no opinion on this, but here’s the bill for those interested:
http://www.anca.org/action_alerts/action_docs.php?docsid=15

The US doesn’t have the resources to police the entire world.
And it’s only been 15 months since dude took office so any calls for his head can only be written off as emotional knee jerk reactions without having most of the facts.

“Obama didn’t pay my
mortgage: Worst president ever!”

Even if he is the President, he can’t do everything everyone demands. He isn’t Ramirez from Call of Duty.

What has policing the world to do with the legislature passing a non-binding resolution recognizing the genocide? I’ll ask once more: if Obama opposed a non-binding resolution deploring the Nazi Holocaust would it bother you at all? Can you provide for me a distinction here?

@dpworkin, I started with low expectations, and I think they think genocide is population control by other means.

I’m not amused by jocular references to genocide. Maybe it’s a matter of taste.

The bill is only symbolic anyway. The deed is long done.

Do you feel the same way about the Holocaust? Can you explain the difference? Is it time to rehabilitate Hitler? After all, he loved dogs and children and it’s been a long time. The deed is long done.

You know, I’m going to revise my opinion based on the factoid that it is considered the first “modern” genocide. (If you haven’t read the Wikipedia article, you should.) I still think denial is the order of the day, and that the difference is the political impetus for a homeland. Not saying it’s right.

@dpworkin, I think ignorance is the enemy in this case. Most people don’t know the facts, so i would say awareness needs to precede outrage.

The vast majority of historians agree that the genocide in Turkey was real. The immature handling of this fact by the Turkish governments clearly shows that the country is not ready to join the European Union. I’m in favor of Turkey joining the Union, but all criteria have to be met and progress is visible but slow.

I wish Obama would adopt a tougher stand when facing the criticism from the Turkish government. I’m all for diplomacy but there can be no tolerance for genocide and the distortion of history. Like the holocaust denial, other denials for similar events is totally unacceptable.

Obama is taking the same position as the last 10 American Presidents.
Yes, it is awful, but it is over, and if we label it genocide, we lose our Turkish Air base.
It’s politics, and Bush, Reagan, Nixon, and Eisenhower all felt the same way.
Lighten up on Obama.

It’s political expediency, unfortunately. The US needs the Turks as allies as we have military bases there and they are a part of NATO. The Armenians have no political power whatsoever.

The point is that it means a tremendous amount to the Armenian community both here and in the rest of the world. The descendents of the families who were massacred want the genocide to be recognized for what it was. It may be only symbolic but it is as important that the truth be acknowledged as it is for any other historic injustice to be recognized. And Turkey should be made to deal with its past the way Germany, for example, has.

@janbb – Great answer! I totally agree.

@filmfann – I expect Obama to do better than those on your list. Despite a diplomatic conflict the Turks would not be so foolish and close those air bases. They would lose power as well.

Sorry. Reagan decried the Armenian genocide. You can look that up, @filmfann.

@dpworkin That’s interesting about Reagan, I didn’t know that. My question, then, if Reagan already decried the Armenian genocide, why do it again and what is different about it this time?

@dpworkin Source?

http://www.anca.org/genocide/reagan.php

Well done, Mr. Reagan! Much better than removing Jimmy Carter’s solar panels from the roof of the White House.

I remember California Governor George Deukmejian pushed for recognition of the genocide, but it never happened.

@filmfann It’s at the end of the link @dpworkin provided.

I am not smug, thanks.
So what did Reagan do about it? Other than the speech I mean.
Why wasn’t this settled then?

Note to mods. I didn’t find that terribly offensive.

the mods can’t tell when friends are joking.

Hey man, I didn’t kill the Armenians nor do I deny it happened. I just don’t see how this bill changes anything.
Why aren’t you complaining about the cultural genocide of the American Indians? Is that not important as well?
Calling people names isn’t helping you.

Just because you have 20000 points doesn’t mean we have to worship your insights. Or is this you trolling for followers?

I found this here :It is true that president Barack Obama did not use the word Genocide when refering to the mass killings of the Armenian population in Eastern Anatolia (today’s Turkey), however, he used the Armenian very respected equivalent of Genocide “The Meds Yeghern” two times in his speech. Armenians use the phrase The Meds Yeghern when referring to the Genocide.

So, shall we agree that since Obama used the Armenian term for Genocide twice while refering to this, he has done as much as Reagan?

It doesn’t explain why he opposed the resolution. You may be satisfied with that; I clearly am not. That’s what an exchange of views means, though, I guess.

@Captain_Fantasy I called you a name? I must have been absent when I did that.

I’m still not happy with him about it. It doe smack of pandering to the Turks and using the Armenian term sounds like pandering to them. I was on the board of the Holocaust Center at my college; I may try to talk to some of them and get an informed take on what he’s doing.

Good word, @janbb. Pandering. he panders. To the Republican obstructionists, to Dick Cheney, to Bybee and Yu, to the electorate, to the Leadership, to the Patriot Act, to Wall Street. He’s a little pandering machine.

Wow you didnt call me a name therefore you never called anyone a name. Politics is clearly your calling. I’m out of this one.

Oh, I am not happy about it either. This was basically Christians being killed in a Muslim country for reasons of their faith.
We do need support from the Muslim countries during these wars, and calling out allied governments for things that happened 100 years ago is counter-productive.
Like I said, it’s politics.

@filmfann “It’s politics.”
We were hoping for so much more. Hope dies slowly in an old lefty’s breast.

I gave up thinking that him being ½ white and ½ Christian would actually matter a long time ago.

½ Christian? That’s pretty harsh, and completely inaccurate.
That’s like saying your not American, because you aren’t indian.

@filmfann Harsh?? Someone who one who <once> worship(s)(ed) Islam and casts aside American ideals while sucking up to Middle Eastern Countries that abuse human rights is not harsh? Are you not embarrassed by this?

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/123063/2111846/2116263/050426_BUSH-ABDULLAH_ex.jpg

@Cruiser Are you implying Obama’s faith influences his ability to make wise policy judgements? If he were Muslim he would make poorer decisions?

Saying Obama is ½ Christian implies that he is not really a Christian, but only half-hearted.
He attends a Christian church, and has for 25 years. That’s quite a smoke screen.

I don’t see how it is relevant to why he hasn’t chosen to label the Turkish genocide against the Armenians as genocide.

Someone needs to make a movie, or 100 movies, about it. Let popular opinion reign.

There is a wonderful, moving, beautifully written book on the subject called “The 40 Days of Musah Dagh”

It is complicated. On the one hand, it was genocide, on the other hand, that resolution would hurt the already fragile relationship with one of our key allies against islamic terrorism. One has to balance the two sides. Sure you can go ahead and adopt the bill and gamble on the chance that Turkey will just “get over it” but there is a risk that Turkey will not react that way and the risk of other negative repercussions.
It seems that Obama is not willing to take that risk.

Wouldn’t you prefer that Turkey behaved like a mature State and took responsibility for its past? Do you not think that the process was salutary for Germany?

@dpworkin Absolutlely, but they aren’t. Kind of lends itself to the realization that many countries behave like children.

Sure I would prefer it that they behaved like a mature state and take responsibility, just as I would prefer the US taking responsibility for their slaughter of the natives, the use of Napalm in Vietnam and the fire and nuclear bombing of Japanese civilians.
But one must take into account the probability whether it will, when one makes such a resolution and one must also consider the possible diplomatic repercussions.
However, there is a possibility that this matter may quickly fade away, since one of Turkey’s main goals is admittance into the European Union, and any action they take against the US, would detract from that goal, so it is quite possible that Turkey will just swallow the pill and pout for a while.
But as I said, there is a risk that they won’t and Obama is not willing to take that risk, and I certainly can understand that decision. Whether I would have decided the same way is another question. To be honest, I do not know.

Fair enough, @ragingloli. I feel he should honor his campaign promises which involved dealing with Europe in a new way, this being one small part of that endeavor. (He specifically promised to call Turkey to account.)

Obama has been ignoring a genocide that has been going on since before he took office and has increased drastically since he has taken office (the two are not related).

I have no respect for him for this and for many other reasons.

@Arisztid I know what you are talking about, but others may not. Why not elaborate and do some educating?

The administration’s stance is understandable. To acknowledge that the event occurred is entirely appropriate, but to waste time rehashing the distant past will only delay any future progress and President Obama certainly has more more than a few problems which require his immediate attention.

Well, if that was going to be the administration’s stance, why did he lie during the campaign. (About that, about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, about Gitmo, about the Patriot Act, about No Child Left Behind) let alone his inability to pass a decent health reform bill, his escalation of the war in Afghanistan… one could go on.

There is a case that might be made for how things look from the outside, as a campaigner, and how things change when the expediency of govenring is an actuality, but I agree with the disappointment. I’m not ready to totally write him off yet, though.

@dpworkin – I’m having trouble understanding how the Obama administration’s stance on a nearly ninety year old genocidal event has any bearing on the other issues you mentioned.

I’m disappointed that he makes promises and then doesn’t fulfill them.

@dpworkin While campaigning, Obama said he would get out of Iraq, but he said we had to refocus on Afganistan.
DADT will take some time, but I am sure he will do it.
He has said he will close Gitmo. Yes, it’s taking longer than he thought.
He has scaled back the Patriot Act. Lots of unconstitutional stuff is out now.
The Health Care thing? You blame Obama?

And let’s keep in mind his dance card has been full the first year.

@dpworkin – Name one other president who has been allowed or been able to fulfill all his campaign promises. The truth is, not even one president has met that criterion. Is it disappointing? Yes, undoubtedly. Is it unexpected? Definitely not.

@dpworkin

Did America condemn the brutal Turkish suppression of the Kurds during the 90’s?
no of course not, yet Chemical Ali was roundly condemned. America has a morally subjective slant, vociferous when condemning the enemy of it’s allies but fairly mute and sullen about similar or far worse atrocities performed by her allies.

The American government is an institution, Obama is a player, he is of use to this institution, he is not a radical force for change, that isn’t how it works….....health care reform will never happen in America, the British National Health Service was a trade off for the commitment and death of millions of working class people in WWI and II, as were many other noteworthy reforms to education, introduction of school meals, state pensions, social housing and so on.

Obama will accomplish absolutely nothing of substance during his tenure in office, he will tinker with legislation and such like, over exaggerate it’s significance and then when the Republicans return the Capitalist machine will quietly be adjusted back to normal, Business as usual.

@mammal – And, if nothing changes, negativity like that will be the reason.

@mammal How fortunate to have been given a crystal ball at such a young age

@cockswain i’m 38, that isn’t me in the avatar picture

@Rufus_T_Firefly ain’t reality a bitch?

@mammal – Only for those whose perception of reality is based on a deep-seated nihilism or those who choose to live in their own self-imposed reality.

A recent article on the subject.

@kevbo Thanks fo the post. A sad, but good, article.

There are mountains of proof everywhere. There has never been a question as to whether or not there was a genocide. Hitler reaffirmed his plans for the Jews by asking “Who now remembers the Armenians?”

The question is are we to behave decently in the world, or continue to have our politics be dictated by situational ethics? Obama said one thing, but by his inaction proves that he meant another.