What do you do when your kids throws a fit in public?

If your store doesn’t have the guts to ask disruptive customers to cut it out or leave then you deserve the customers you have. What if an adult customer had a problem that caused them to piss all over the store. Would you tolerate that?

If ”listening to 15 minutes of uncontrolled screaming is nearly unbearable”, then imagine how the mother feels? Or anyone else who lives with them? My advice would be to just bite the bullet when they come in, it’s only 15 minutes…

1–2-3 Magic
Worked for us.

I would walk away.No one will kidnap a tantrum throwing child.
Easy for me to say as I have no children….
or maybe I did,and just forgot to go back and get them ;))lol

@malevolentbutticklish There’s certainly a difference. If it is a grocery store where @knitfroggy works, then those purchases are necessary. If the child has a disorder, then the mother or any manager has no control over her behavior. An adult coming in the store and urinating all over the place is not the same as a mentally afflicted child who is accompanying her mother to get groceries.

@jfos Exactly. We ask disruptive people to leave all the time and will call the cops if they don’t leave on their own. But a mother with a fit throwing child is different.

I wish it were only 15 minutes. She had a huge order, so she’d been screaming thru the store for a long time. The 15 minutes was at the register.

I would think about it this way. This mother probably wouldn’t have any food in her house if she could never go to the store. She must be a single parent. She probably doesn’t know that there are services out there that her child desperately needs, such as early intervention programs. I know about a lot of programs for parents of children with special needs. I would probably get nosey and tell her where she can get some help. If the child is going half day to a special school for special preschool kids, or intervention program, or easter seals therapy center, mom might have a few minutes to go to the store without all that and the kid might get some desperately needed help. The kid can’t help it. Mom doesn’t know what to do. I’d keep a few brocures at the check out of various programs to help and slip them to her when she came through. Of course I am the one that gets fired all the time, so what do I know.

@jfos: If the manager doesn’t have control over his store he doesn’t have any business being a manager. If the child is as horrid a beast as described then this is not simply a case of a mother with upset child. If the manager wants to alienate his other customers for a few of her dollars he can but if I was one of his customers and got subjected to that a couple times I might look elsewhere.

Luckily this scenario never played out for me with my kids at that age.In this case i’d get a load of staff to roll on their backs & scream simultaneously as soon as this kid begins to bellow.Get’s worse before it gets better.

I highly doubt that spanking an autistic child would help at all. In fact, it’s kind of unreasonable to compare an autistic child to children in general. I know how I would react if I were the parent, but it wouldn’t fit the situation you described because my kids are not autistic or disabled in any other way.

Personally, I’d feel very bad for the mother and offer to help if possible. Imagine what it must be like to shop under those conditions, knowing other people are judging you and glaring at you. She must not have any other alternative for shopping or she wouldn’t even attempt it.

Anyway, I’ve only had a few instances where my kids have thrown a fit in public. If I can’t get them to stop without giving in to the tantrum, I leave. Sometimes all you can do is finish your shopping as fast as you can and get the hell out. It sucks, but when you have a car full of groceries and a crying toddler, leaving only punishes you, not the kid. The kid doesn’t care that you have to come back and do it all over again.

@malevolentbutticklish Did you miss the part about the child being autistic? Not a beast, not something the child or the parent can control, and not something a manager can step in and fix.

It isn’t fun to have to listen to that kind of behavior, but imagine being the parent and living with it. Maybe extend a bit of sympathy or understanding.

edited to say: I just re-read the details and see now that the wish to have the child spanked was before knowing the child was autistic. Sorry for the misunderstanding! Still, I have never understood how spanking a child could stop the child from crying. My brother and always cried more when we were spanked.

@MissAusten Like I said, I’ve seen this child many times and never knew she was autistic until last night. I know spanking her wouldn’t help an autistic child, but I didn’t know before that she was anything other than just a brat. I did sympathize with the mother. I can imagine the embarrassment and irritation she must have felt.

I have gone up to people before when their kids are throwing a fit and asking if there is anything I can help with or something. Just to let them know we realize the are having trouble and would like to help if at all possible. I was the supervisor of the registers at the time and we were extremely busy. So I was on the register and unable to do or say anything to this woman.

I am hoping that when I have a toddler, I’ll remember that they have a very low tolerance for stressful situations like shopping and make shorter trips to the stores more often rather than one huge trip to the store all at once. Just go in, do one or two aisles at a time and then leave. Yes you’ll make more shopping trips, but it’s not terrible.

This goes for autistic kids as well. Most of them get overwhelmed and overstimulated in stores and it’s just a bad idea to go on a huge shopping expedition with an autistic child.

I remember working in a bookstore and there was a family with an autistic child who would scream until his face turned purple and he passed out from lack of oxygen. Then he’d “wake up’ and keep on screaming. (He was in a stroller so they could just drag him along while he “slept”.) I wanted to kill those parents. They would shop for almost an hour and just ignore it!

Children have trigger points that can virtually guarantee a bad moment and almost always in public and I can only imagine an autistic child’s triggers to be even more of a challenge. An off the hook 3 or 4 yr old is a challenge for sure and I also think a good store manager should have offered assistance to the beleaguered mother.

@MissAusten: So a beast-child with autism isn’t a beast-child? I don’t care if it is bad upbringing, possession by daemon spirits, too many paint chips, alien rays, or autism, the result is the same. The manager can step in and stop it any time he wants. All he has to do is tell the mother she must control her child or leave. If she can’t control it she must come back alone or find some other store to terrorize.

This is very bad for two reasons.

1.) The mother is getting used to blaming the child and making excuses… “He’s autistic”. This is a very dangerous habit to get into, for both the child and the mother.

It’s not the child’s fault

2.) Not being sensitive and patient with a screaming child says more about the person complaining about it than it does the child.

It’s not the child’s fault

Adults should use these situations as an opportunity to exercise their patience. Doing so will make the world a much better place.

My youngest son was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome at a very early age. He would go into violent rages in public places on a consistent basis. Here’s how I handled it and precisely how it all went away… never to be seen again.

I held him.

Whenever he would go ballistic, I would ask the adults around me to please hold whatever was going on (keep the groceries at the counter), and that I’d be back in a moment. I would then leave the premises with my son and take him out to the car. We would sit in the back seat for as long as it took to calm him down. He would fight, kick, scream, punch, scratch, and become even more violent than before. But no matter what, I held him close, hummmed and whispered nice things to him, told him what a great kid he was, and NEVER LET HIM GO.

Sometimes it would take hours, just holding him in the back seat of my car. Eventually he would calm, and mostly because of exhaustion. When he calmed, we would exit the car, go back into the store, and finish our business. The clerks were very pleased with this scenario, and my son quickly understood that his tantrums would never change anything for the better.

It took two years of doing this. It was embarrassing at first, but soon I didn’t care about the public, or the clerks, or anyone. Offending other people was not on my list of concerns. My only concern was for my son… Period.

His behavior changed slowly, but it did change. He now lives a normal life. We all do. He’s even lost his face tiks. You’d never know that he ever had a problem whatsoever.

Hold that child close. Never blame them. Never reinforce their sickness. Doing so only reveals our sickness as a society. Hold that child close, and NEVER LET THEM GO.

@knitfroggy: Consider if you are a good customer instead of a problem customer. Do you want to be subjected to this or instead do you want to go some place you can purchase your groceries in peace? If you are running a business there are enough things to worry about even after removing all possible problems from the equation. Customers would love shopping in a clean problem free store with hard working problem free employees.

We don’t live in a perfect world @malevolentbutticklish. There are real people with real problems living real lives in the real world that other real people will show real empathy for real change.

We’re not in Kansas anymore. If you can’t empathize with the problems of others, then you have a serious problem.

It depends on why he’s throwing a tantrum, what sort of tantrum (like, is he screaming, is he crying, or is he just whining?) if he’s whining or being a brat about wanting something he can’t have, well I’m sorry but he has to learn he can’t get whatever he wants every time we go to the store, so I’ll let him cry it out. If it got to the point of screaming and being disruptive, I would count to three, and then we’d leave if he couldn’t control himself.

If that lady comes in every time and her child acts that way, then obviously she has to get her shopping done and has to deal with it. It sounds as if she’s embarrassed but has no other choice to get the products that she needs (I’m assuming grocery store). Not every mother has help during the week. My husband works day and night shifts..I can wait until his day off to go food shopping, but that might mean not food in the house..you have to do what you have to do. Kids can’t control the schedule all the time.

I have no experience with autistic children. I understand the learning and social spectrum is wide. I would not look at this as simply a tantrum and I would try to help the mother accomplish her necessary shopping.

Perfect @thriftymaid. Do what you can to make the world a better place… and guess what! The world will become a better place!

Of course, we could always blame a child, complain, or make excuses. That does seem to be the current preference.

@malevolentbutticklish and some dictators like Hitler would have had all people with a special problem exterminated rather than helped. You have to share this world with a lot of people, children and adults, with various problems that make them different. Among these are mental illness, mental retardation, autism, and other problems. They still need to get food, go to the doctor, and all the stuff people have to do to live. To exclude them just because you don’t like having to look at them is discrimination. The child does need to be taught how to behave in public, but that cannot be done if the child is never brought out in public. This child is going to have a harder time than the average kid. Locking her in the basement would not help the child learn.

Few people know things such as the school district, at least in my state, is required to offer special education services to children 3 and over. Parents with a child with a disability don’t have to wait until kindergarten to reap the benefits of the special education system. There is a preschool for children with special needs. Kids get therapy and other services, and evaluation by an educational psychologist. Trained professionals help both the child and the parent. Help is there. People sometimes just don’t know about it.

This poor mother must be overwhelmed. I don’t think she is coming into the store with her kid just to freak people out. She needs help. Her kid needs help. I would direct her to various solutions I know about discreetly, such as slipping her some pamphlets or a printout, or even just the number of a support group. Instead of complaining, I’d try to find ways to help. If that is nosey of me or pushy of me, then so be it.

One day the world might even have to deal with our Old Age! Oh the Horror! How can we ever permit such a thing?

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies awesome. Thanks.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: Thank you for removing your child when appropriate.
@escapedone7: Are you comparing my view that managers shouldn’t allow disruptive people into the store to Nazi exterminations?

@malevolentbutticklish If you mean grandiose, self centered, uncaring, selfish, narcissistic, possibly pathological in the level of lack of empathy for other humans? Yes. Absolutely.

Anyone that wants to bounce everyone out of the store that has a crying baby on them is going to have to get real or move to another planet.

Of course I don’t have to worry about this myself. I love birth control. Still I care about other people who choose to reproduce. If everyone were like me, we’d go extinct.

@escapedone7 I can take a society of people like you, I think. If we had a society made up of @malevolentbutticklish types, then I suppose we’d be in concentration camps before long.

@malevolentbutticklish Thank you for reaffirming my lacking faith in our current cultural propensity for impatience. It takes a tribe to raise a child. If you’re in the tribe, then buck up and show some understanding. You can start by taking a tip from @thriftymaid‘s last comment. I know you want a hassle free life, but I’m sorry, that was never part of the deal.

Would you rather see this? Would that make people happy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Db0uXj-Jas

That freaks me out a lot more than seeing a baby not behave perfectly.

I have 18 years experience dealing with persons with Autism. There are many instances in an Autistic child’s life that they would throw fits and make blood curdling screams. It’s truly agonizing for the parent to be uncomforting to the child, forget about the people around. But, this thing, as with all other things, do pass. Early intervention programs for the child and the parents should be at the forefront of their lives. The sooner both parents and child get trained, the better the outcome.

And if I were in the shoes of those around this mother and child, I would not hesitate to find out how I can help to get them go through the ordeal as quickly as possible. Judging, and staring and talking about the inappropriate behavior wouldn’t help anyone, not the mother, not the child, not the rest of the people behind them.

So the next time, you Flutherites witness such inappropriate behavior, take time out to find out how you can help this people. It wouldn’t be difficult to realize that you stand to benefit from helping the parent get through the chore as quickly as possible.

Screaming children are like a knife through my temples, give me a headache within a few minutes, and a migraine if much longer.

I will walk out of wherever I am in order to escape it. If I have no choice but to tolerate it, like doctor’s offices, I bring top rated earplugs and only wind up with a headache rather than a migraine. I also will ask the nursing staff if I may please be stuck in a back room, I do not care what room, until the doctor is ready for my appointment. I know that they have the right to be there so I take myself elsewhere.

I frequent places that have less of that problem than others, such as avoiding “family” restaurants like the plague. If I could pick one store over another based on how many screaming children tended to be there, I am sure you could guess which one I would choose.

@escapedone7: I asked if you are “comparing my view that managers shouldn’t allow disruptive people into the store to Nazi exterminations?” and you verified “Yes. Absolutely.” You have belittled those lives.

@CyanoticWasp: “malevolentbutticklish types, then I suppose we’d be in concentration camps before long.” <—actually it is the anti-firearm crowd I vote most likely responsible. A well-armed population has options.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: Now I am accused of impatience? Another poster said that I am nothing if not tenacious. Please consider that not wishing to allow dysfunction to continue could stem from a desire to take swift positive action instead.

@Arisztid: I’m rooting for you.

@malevolentbutticklish ”...a desire to take swift positive action…”

The best swift positive action is to follow the lead of @thriftymaid and @njnyjobs. It is certainly not to claim a ”...store doesn’t have the guts to ask disruptive customers to cut it out or leave…”, as you say. That is a sign of impatience, lack of empathy, and unwillingness to help make a problem better for everyone.

I see the underlying hate and discrimination that drives both. I realize tthe disease of racism and hate fueled the KKK to lynch minorities, I see the same hate and racism in a skin head shouting racial epithets even if he hasn’t lynched anyone (yet) himself and isn’t wearing a sheet. The disease is the same just different symptoms. I personally get upset that people discriminate against others with mental disabilities. To me, it is another form of hate that I encounter again and again, in the general public and even in this forum. That hate and intolerance is a disease that takes many forms and has many symptoms. So many that I could write a book about it.

We are talking about babies here. A baby. Not a drunk raping old ladies in the aisles. A crying baby isn’t that big of a deal. I also hear barking dogs, sirens, and other noises during my day. I guess the noise of life isn’t a big deal to me. You may be more sensitive to noise. It may be more irritating to you than it is to me. @arisztid makes it sound like it causes him pain. Since it doesn’t cause me pain, I didn’t think of it as a painful situation. Crying babies are just crying babies to me. I don’t think of them as mini monsters plotting to ruin my day. If it causes him physical pain I actually understand why that is a problem. His ears are no doubt more sensitive than mine are. The way he described it makes me understand why it causes him distress. It is not painful for me and I didn’t view it that way.

I have a personal pet peeve that people show all kinds of sympathy to visible disabilities buy feel it is ok to bash anyone with nonvisible disabilities. If this person was saying someone kept bringing in their child in a wheelchair and the wheelchair blocked the aisles, slowed down other shoppers, and the kid looks freaky, people would gasp in shock that someone would be picking on a crippled kid. Just because another child’s disability is not as visible doesn’t mean it isn’t real or they are just trying to annoy you. But children with mental disabilities will never be poster children, nobody cares about them. Why?

I am just thinking about the well being of the mother and the child. I am sure both are miserable, and they need food to survive. What might help them? I can think of so many ways to offer them help and solve their distress, from a church volunteer helping with shopping to special schools that could help the poor kid and give mom a chance to shop alone, to something as small as helping her empty her cart so she can focus on and attend the child while I do the unloading. I just keep thinking of ways I could help. It actually would be more humane than kicking out everyone that has a problem. I guess I see so many ways to help her out that would be more productive than hating on her baby. I don’t like people who pick on babies in general. I mean, they are babies. Who would pick on a baby or a toddler? awwww. Come on. I think it would be different if they were at a movie theater or library or someplace they did not have to be. Leaving is an easy option and the obvious one to take in such situations. Even leaving a restaurant, I can see doing that. But some things, like going to a doctor or getting the baby some food when the food has run out, are necessities. These situations aren’t optional, can’t be put off for a week while the kid has no food. People are just trying to live while dealing with very difficult circumstances. Some situations call for a little compassion.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: By “everyone” you mean only the beast-child’s mother. This is a very exclusive view of “everyone” to say the least. You don’t include Arisztid when you say everyone. You don’t include me when you say everyone. You don’t include all the other shoppers and employees. Barring horrible disruptions from the store is a no-brainer.

@escapedone7: “Crying babies are just crying babies to me.”!?!? There is a set of special stimuli such as hearing your name that is suppose to invoke a special response in the brain. A crying baby is one such special stimulus. I would hate to be your child for which crying means nothing more to you than the noise of a washing machine or traffic on the street.

Additionally, you do discriminate. You discriminate against normal people. Discriminating against everyone without a sob story is insidious.

I don’t have a child. I admire the hell out of people who have them though. I think it would be a hard job to do 24/7 and I also think it may be the most important job in the world. I took birth control until the end and then developed a nasty tumor last year that required surgery. No kids for me. The end. I am not married, and the job looks so difficult it looks like a two person job to me. I would be afraid to enter into it without a very dedicated partner that helps a lot. If I find one, I am open to foster parenting older children though. I would really like that. I have money for babysitters and stuff though. I mean, this woman must be in a desperate situation. She can’t be doing it for fun.

@malevolentbutticklish

Yes, you, Arsztid, me, the shoppers, the manager, the mother, and the “beast-child”.

I’m not out to satisfy your immediate discomfort of the moment. And removing that from you negates your authority to claim anyone as “beast-child”. It’s not the child’s fault. It is a problem that the child faces. And EVERYONE is much better off when we face the problems of our children together.

In this way, the long term comfort of EVERYONE will be pursued, together, as the body of society strives to make reality better for ALL. But passing a judgmental eye, whilst tagging an innocent with “beast-child” does nothing more than attempt to justify your own personal pursuit of your own personal comfort in your own personal moment. That’s a formula for extinction.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: “a formula for extinction”!?!? I’ll pencil it in right between 2012 and the new Nazi concentration camps I’m supposedly creating.

“beast-child” is accurate based on the description of the behavior and discomfort level it causes. I call it as I see it.

From your personal position of discomfort, your subjective opinion is the only foundation for calling an innocent “beast-child”. But there is more to consider than your personal subjective opinion. The medical and psychological communities would disagree with you, and they don’t base their terminologies on subjective opinions clouded by temporary discomfort.

Yes, you call it as you see it. How may we trust your vision when your eyes are closed?

Oh I did not actually answer the question.

While I do not have children, I would do what my father and family friends told me that he did (my mother was long dead): as a child, if I started screaming, tossing a hissy at the age for such things, or otherwise causing a mess, if it went longer than a minute or so, he took me outside until he calmed me down. If I would not calm down, we went home but luckily, or so I was told, I was a good tempered baby. The exception was doctor’s offices where he still tried to get away from others.

I do remember clearly one time I tossed a hissy, had to be about 5, he took me out to the car, sat me there, and told me to get ahold of myself. When I was done, we went back into the store.

Due to how I was raised, I admit bafflement at a child being drug through a store screaming their heads off or being allowed to run riot in restaurants. However, we had some solid family friends and the money to afford a babysitter when needed (including when he was at work) which is something not all have the luxury to afford… especially as a single parent.

If I had a child, when I took him/her out in public, that is what I would do. I am assuming that my wife would be alive and I would encourage her to do the same. I would take the child when I was home from work and let her do her running without having to make the choice to let our child scream in a public place.

Oh I would also buy a lot of tylenol and get a script for vicodin.

I wish to point out that the mother SAID the child was autistic. This does not mean he was. I also wish to say that most stores, if asked, would gladly send some lower employee to get the person’s items, then ring them up, and have the person come in from outside or something to pay for them, rather than subject their employees and other customers to that much disruption.

As someone that is indifferent to children, and someone that has worked retail for years, I can tell you that I would be quite willing to do whatever was necessary to remove that person from the store. You say it is discrimination, I say, well it discriminates against me shopping in a store, when they allow things like that.

@keysha, but you are talking about helping. That would be wonderful if someone would help. That would be such an awesome act of kindness. I wouldn’t see helping in that way as discriminating at all. That sounds very sweet.

I guess I’m the weird one. I don’t have babies but I don’t find them or baby crying offensive. I guess maybe there is something wrong with me and malevolent butt is right. I guess if I had more maternal instinct for crying I would want to put the baby in the deli rotissary after raping it and eat it with barbecue sauce. Damn babies. Crying all the time. Let’s eat them.
I am going to troll the malevolent butt until I get banned, and do it for the LOLZ Hey butt. Where’d you go? I MISS YOU!!!!!!!!!! I’m your new best friend. I’m having a barbecue. Bring some coleslaw. Let’s eat.

awww @Arisztid , you don’t seem unkind at all. In fact you seem very kind indeed. I’m often touched by your gentle tone. I just get riled up about people that act hateful. You have a condition that makes noise painful. I wouldn’t want anyone to be in pain like that. I hadn’t considered such conditions but now I can see why it is a problem, just like allowing smoking is a problem for asthmatics. It causes a problem I wasn’t aware of. I just thought of it as simple crying. I don’t have enough experience with raising babies to know myself. I just don’t like people hating on innocents. Rawr. I get bitchy when I feel like someone is being mistreated. It’s the wildcat in me, what can I say.

Now… I’m hungry. Where’s the butt?

PS I actually like him. I’m like the girl at school that pushes the boys she likes. Yes, this is affection. When I eat him, just think of it as a sign of love. I mean, he’s already on a plate, and I’m so hungry!

@escapedone7 This question refers to kids throwing a fit and screaming, not crying. There is a difference. I you say it sounds sweet and caring, but in reality, it is desperation on my part. I’ll do anything to get away from the annoying brats.

I see you. I’m hungry buttroast. Get in my belly!!!! (Fatbastard was hilarious)

I want baby back baby back ribs!

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: You say my “subjective opinion” “clouded by” “discomfort” and “How may we trust your vision when your eyes are closed?” Who is going to trust the opinion if someone blind to the discomfort of others?

@malevolentbutt I don’t want you to be in discomfort. If you like, I will kill you first before I eat you. But only if that’s how you prefer to be eaten. Most of my recipes for buttroast require high temperatures and cooking for hours though. It would suck to be cooked alive. How would you prefer? I care about your feelings on this matter.

Now. Get in my belly!

@malevolentbutticklish

There is a huge difference in short term and long term discomfort. Your solution only addresses the short term for a small number of people. You seem blind and unconcerned with addresses long term for all of society.

As long as people keep claiming innocent children as “beast-child” and “annoying brats” we will continue to face these issues (and worse) till the end of time. As long as adults insist upon innocent children to act like adults these issues will never be truly addressed.

Change the mindset of our impatient judgmental society, address the issue for what it really is (rather than the short term discomfort of others), and society as a whole will be better off in the long run. I’m not blind to the discomfort of others. I see it for what it really is, and it really is quite temporary and subjective. Typical of our quick fix (put a band aid on it) society. But under that band aid, the wound grows, the rift swells, and the sickness spreads further becoming practically incurable… All because society is concerned with nothing more than their own personal comfort in any given moment. And if _you don’t get that comfort, you_ feel justified in casting blame rather than offering patience, understanding, and help.

Stop reinforcing a child’s sickness by calling it names to suit your level of discomfort. Consider seeing a child as a victim that can only be helped if society at large comes together in maturity, and addresses the problem for what it really is, without the need to cast insulting judgments upon that innocent child. Doing as such makes you as much a part of the sickness (if not more so) than the child you would otherwise blame and hold accountable.

Society is NOT accountable to you or your immediate comfort. You are accountable to society, and recognizing this ensures the long term comfort of everyone.

Stop blaming a child for your lacking sensitivity. Comfort that child and find the comfort you are looking for. Acknowledge that hurting child and expand your sensitivity beyond its limited and short sighted vision.

I mean, I really don’t know where you think this debate is going to lead. You really don’t think I’m going to come around and accept your personal discomfort as justification for calling an innocent child disparaging names… do you?

Would butt roast taste good with fava beans and a nice bottle of Chianti?

I don’t blame the children for their outbursts. I blame the parents for putting them in situations where they are trapped and can’t escape. There is nothing wrong with making shorter trips instead of epic long trips to the grocery store. It’s not “punishment” to leave a place when a child can no longer handle the overstimulation. It’s relieving your child of being overstimulated.

I think that parents put their own convenience over their responsibility to their children. So you make a few more trips to the grocery store per week. So you may have to suddenly exit the store for the sake of your child who is freaking out or just plain tired of being in the store too long. That’s part of being a responsible parent.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies FYI, I called them annoying brats. And that is what many misbehaved children are. Perhaps not out of their own volition, but it changes nothing.

When I was growing up, if I acted like many kids do nowadays, I’d have been taken out of that behavior fast . My parents would never have let me act like that. Do I blame the parents? Damned straight. Do I blame society? Damned straight. Is that going to change my view? Not a chance.

The fact is, most parents do not parent anymore. They let their little precious darlings run the show, buying them everything they possibly can, in hopes that the child will look upon them with favor. Then, when the child acts out, because they not only don’t know the proper boundaries of society, but they have never experienced boundaries to limit their attitudes, the parents are at a loss. They had tv’s of their own at 3, computers of their own at 5, cell phones by 6, and have been raised to believe they can have anything they want, if they throw a big enough fit.

Kids are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. And they do not care. That is what makes them brats. You cannot tell me that an 8–10 year old kid does not know how he acts is wrong, when people around him show him it is. He just does not care. A six-year-old that is in a restaurant knows not to take food off stranger’s plates, but I’ve had them try with mine. And daddy dear got so upset when I grabbed the little monster’s hand and would not let him do so. I got a free meal out of the deal.

People RealEyesRealizeRealLies can spout all the pseudo-psychological claptrap they want. It changes nothing. Unless that child has the brains of a 1-year-old, it has begun to know right from wrong. And does not care. This makes them annoying brats and little monsters. Believe what you wish of them, just do not deny me my right to believe as I do.

I see you buttroast. I am so going to eat you.
Babies might be more tender but no…. you have that nice big butt Makes my mouth water thinking about sinking my teeth into a nice juicy pork butt. A little garlic, salt and pepper…. you were blessed with a really yummy butt, butt. And think, your life will serve a purpose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXj1FyW16Fw

Barbecue and eat anyone who annoys you. I like this new social ethic. These guys can eat the babies , then, I can eat them. Food chain time.

I found a juicy one for you buttroast.

BTW I know this doesn’t matter but children under 3 aboslutely do not reason like 8 year olds. That is why so many toys are labeled “not for children under 3”. Some two year olds only know a few words and have trouble communicating. Some 3 year olds are even still in diapers. If the child has a disability, sometimes they aren’t able to articulate that they are upset or need something. The “fits” sometimes stop when a child that has trouble telling people what is wrong learns sign language or how to use an augmented speech device. Many people with babies that have no special needs are now teaching their babies simple signs for “eat” and “Drink” and stuff. The kids scream less when they learn how to communicate what they need or what is wrong (obviously). I know I am talking to people here with absolutely no idea about normal child development much less children with special needs. Obviously as I stated earlier, letting the child continue to not be able to go through a store or live normally is not an option. The best solution for all is to help the child. The end. The mom may have no clue what works yet. Talking to other mothers who have successfully parented a child, they could learn. Hence why I suggested giving her the number to a support group. I just know the child can be helped, the mother can be helped, and then nobody would have a problem. So why not just help? The truth is people are just aggravated because they don’t like kids and they’d rather bitch and moan and blame people than help to make a better tomorrow for all these kids by doing something to change things. If it was me I’d enroll the child in a special school, seek advice of specialists…. but I have money. Maybe there are people like me out there that would fund something for such kids. I would make a donation. Maybe we should start one. Parenting classes, therapy for the kids, etc. We can make the world a better place, or we can sit and judge and hate.

Or…. we can just eat each other. It’s up to you.

God buttroast you type slow.

@Keysha

The OP specifically stated “a kid that is about 3 or 4 years old.” and “the child was autistic”.

Therefor, when you claim, “People RealEyesRealizeRealLies can spout all the pseudo-psychological claptrap they want. It changes nothing”, you may want to consider your statement against current research..and my own personal story.

Please don’t move the goal posts to an “an 8–10 year old kid” (not autistic), to suit your position. That’s a different matter, and one that I mostly agree with you on, except for your need to slander any child with name calling. That, is walking a thin line between adult ignorance and child abuse.

[mod says] Flame off, folks. Remember to disagree without being disagreeable. All further personal remarks will be removed.

I still stand by calling kids as I feel they are. I feel I have that right, regardless of why they are as they are. I currently am in an apartment under a couple with 4 kids, the youngest just learning to walk, the next one is 4. The 4 year old runs and jumps through their apartment like a monster, to the point where our pictures fall off our walls. The parents excuse it by saying she is just 4. So what? Does the fact that she is a child mean that we have to put up with her doing things that infringes on our rights? Since when is childhood an excuse to run rampant over the rights of others?

I happen to know parents of developmentally disabled kids, my niece is one such parent. They can be taught, to a point, or they can be treated in such a way as to minimize the impact they have on others that do not wish to put up with them.

This question has went from a parent of a 3–4 year old whom she said was autistic, throwing a fit, to ‘poor crying children’, to ‘blame society’, to… I was, in my posts, speaking of children in general, not just the answer, as this thread is going all over. As far as the question’s child, itself, Mom should not have subjected this child to a marathon shopping trip. She should have either had someone watch the child, or broken the trip up into several smaller trips. Do I think that child is a monster or an annoying brat? Not if it is autistic. If, however, it was throwing a ‘fit’, then I have to wonder if it was doing so, or if the asker misread autistic screaming as a ‘fit’. If, in fact, it was a fit, then I have to doubt the autism excuse. A screaming autistic child tends to not appear to be throwing a fit, they tend to be looking like a kid screaming to scream. At least in my experience, and that which I can find online.

Hey @RealEyesRealizeRealLies I have some experience in grant writing. Maybe we could actually start something. A collective, and organization. Perhaps compound resources, support, referrals to agencies, scholarships or donations for specific treatments or equipment. We could run it on grant money as well as donations. We could offer a multifaceted approach, from parenting information to therapy to even respite care or in home help of some kind. Maybe even lobby for research. I’ve often wondered why there seems to be such an increase in cases.

Like, maybe we could do something. People would wonder, since I don’t have an autistic child, why I’d pour myself into something like that. However, I think I’d really dig it. Hmmmm. Maybe something positive really could be done. Maybe I am thinking too big. Maybe just an online support group or something smaller would be a first step to bigger things. Wheels are really really turning here.
I’m still hungry though. I think better on a full stomach.

I am thinking really broad. Everything from early intervention to having advocates assist parents and teachers with IEPs.

Sorry @escapedone7, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I don’t need to fight for another cause right now. I think the plan you have is wonderful, but might be better directed at helping judgmental people in society break out of their selfishness. That’s the real problem we’re facing.

@Keysha said: “I still stand by calling kids as I feel they are. I feel I have that right, regardless of why they are as they are.”

Yes, I’m well aware of your feelings for yourself. I also know how you feel about others. You do indeed have the right to express your feelings.

BTW @escapedone7, I re-read your post beginning with “the underlying hate and discrimination”

It was very touching. It’s good to know there are those with vision beyond the immediate. Those who look at the root of problems are the ones who will ultimately be able to solve the problems.

People used to think it was necessary to “spank” adult members of the community, military trainees, and prisoners. In some countries they still do. In our country, it is considered sexual battery if a person over the age of 18 is “spanked”, but only if over the age of 18.

For one thing, because the buttocks are so close to the genitals and so multiply linked to sexual nerve centers, striking them can trigger powerful and involuntary sexual stimulus in some people. There are numerous physiological ways in which it can be sexually abusive, but I won’t list them all here. One can use the resources I’ve posted if they want to learn more.

Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering (euphemistically labeled “spanking”,“swatting”,“switching”,“smacking”, “paddling”,or other cute-sounding names) for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like “Supernanny” and “Dr. Phil” are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn’t a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research with the recommended reads-visit the website of Parents and Teachers Against Violence In Education at www.nospank.net.

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping isn’t a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
American Psychological Association,
Center For Effective Discipline,
Churches’ Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus’ Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

@PDeverit: Raising children is best left to the parents. The US was the only UN member that recognized this fact. We’re still #1.

For this quip I am removing autism from the equation because the issue at hand is screaming children but the discussion has sidetracked to an autistic child.

I am softer spoken and use different words than @malevolentbutticklish and @Keysha . but my views are identical to Keysha’s and not too far off from malevolentbutticklish’s in many ways. So if they are going to get a roasting, toss me in too.

What I see both of them describing is behaviour in children, not children not indulging in that behaviour. They are describing the behaviour.

I also lay this sucker directly in the parent’s lap, like @keobooks also said.

I am not going to lie that what goes through my heads about the parents is not the most pleasant thing in the world. Do I say it or show it? No. I leave.

I said that I choose where I shop based on the numbers of screaming children I am going to encounter which supports @malevolentbutticklish ‘s position that allowing this costs businesses paying customers. Many businesses have lost my patronage and the patronage of others I know who object to this.

I do know disease more than either of them, I believe, and know autism very well. However, the issue at hand is not specifically autism. It is screaming children… period. The side issue is whether or not we should be subjected to it.

Now, I have a problem with my hearing that makes that sound be like knives into my temples… not all have that problem.

However, @Keysha , @malevolentbutticklish , and others do not like being around screaming infants. I have a condition that gives me an “excuse” in many of your minds… but does it? The other two here do not want to be subjected to it. Does them not having pain from it make their wishes moot?

I would like to have certain areas free from screaming children but I know that is unrealistic. I know that my only option here is to remove myself.

I tried to point out in my post before this one why I have a problem with ill behaved children and screaming infants. It is not just my hearing, it is how I was raised. I have been raised from my earliest memory to show courtesy to everyone and I would do everything I could to not disrupt other shoppers.

If I had an extremely disruptive infant and no choice but to take the infant and could not get anyone else to do my shopping for me (I would try both), I would not do marathon shopping expeditions. I would do short trips and time them so I would not disrupt other shoppers… say, at 3 in the morning or some other odd hour. If it is an infant, according to what I know, would not be disrupted. There is a chance the child would sleep through it.

If I had a child with autism I would do exactly what Keysha said… tell the business establishment of the problem and ask them to help. Keysha was not exaggerating. They do this.

So, if you want to toss me on the coals, feel free.

Oh I forgot, @Keysha is my wife.

I am also in this situation:

_ I currently am in an apartment under a couple with 4 kids, the youngest just learning to walk, the next one is 4. The 4 year old runs and jumps through their apartment like a monster, to the point where our pictures fall off our walls. The parents excuse it by saying she is just 4. So what? Does the fact that she is a child mean that we have to put up with her doing things that infringes on our rights? Since when is childhood an excuse to run rampant over the rights of others?_

… and going insane.

@arisztid I would never roast you. You’re too sweet. I recently found something else that has given me even more ideas! You have to admit sneering, calling kids brats and monsters, all of that was handled less than delicately, rather harshly in fact. I was having a little fun with the blue meanies. I am a problem solver. I just brainstorm solutions that could make it all better. Poverty must pay a role in this. Anyone that could afford a sitter would have one. The crises daycare center, such as the one I linked to, would be a brilliant solution. They accept donations and I am donating, but they are giving me ideas.

@escapedone7 Thankyou. :)

I understand your point but they are using harsh words. I do not use those words but when I say “screaming children” I say it with the same inflection as them while thinking unpleasant thoughts at the parents. I just had to point out that they are being roasted over using terms that are harsh but these terms are describing a behaviour, not children in general.

I will concur that poverty plays a factor in this on more than one level… that is a complex issue.

I think that link is a very good idea. :)

Complaining, avoiding, casting blame, accusing, judging, justifying… never solved anything.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I am discussing, not complaining. I have not harped on anything, using what I say as an example. Furthermore, I am only doing it in a thread about the topic.

I avoid because it is my right to not put up with pain and, even if I was not in pain due to this, it is my right to avoid. It is certainly better than me losing my temper and becoming, shall we say, unpleasant to the parents.

I cast blame because I know, for a fact, that this kind of behaviour is usually avoidable. Yes, I keep in mind that there are times when it is not easily avoidable.

I do not accuse.

I judge because the parents choose to not use parenting techniques that would mitigate the effects their children have on the environment. Autism makes this mitigation much more difficult. I am talking about children in general.

I also told how I was raised, which worked as far as keeping me from subjecting others to bad behaviour and resulted in a polite child and adult.

@Arisztid

Yes, it is your right to avoid, blame, judge and justify. You have that right.

you say: “I am removing autism from the equation because the issue at hand is screaming children but the discussion has sidetracked to an autistic child.”

No. This discussion originated from the perspective of autistic child. It has been sidetracked to normal bad kids in order to justify a position.

You seem to offer what you would do and how you were raised as a form of solution. Fine, that may indeed fix the issue for you. But everyone isn’t like you. If you put your upbringing under the microscope for others to view, do you suppose that all would agree that your upbringing was optimal? And if they did, how will your thoughtful expose’ actually help the situation at hand, whether autistic or not?

Does it not take action to engage a change for the better? How will any of your suggestions be transformed into action or real world examples that will actually change things beyond what they already are? Would not a “bad parent” benefit the most from a patient example set by a “good parent”?

When the child is unruly, autistic or not, the mere rejection of that situation by avoiding, blaming, and judging only provides the errant parent more initiative to pass the blame along to the child, therefor producing a child that grows up believing that He/She IS the problem… The cycle continues and before you know it, we’re stuck living in the same broken scenario that we feed by avoiding the real issue.

If you want change, then offer comforting and patient examples of how you want that change to be. If you want things to remain the same, then continue avoiding, blaming, judging and justifying. That is your right indeed. Such is the world we build.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I am not going to insult you back. For the record, the best way for me to not care what you say is to insult me. I replied to your first borderline insult and watched to see if you would include insults in your next remark. Had you not, I would have continued the discussion. Because this is the last conversation I shall have with you, I shall point out the insults:

Complaining, avoiding, casting blame, accusing, judging, justifying… never solved anything.…borderline insult.
insult from this quip.

Yes, it is your right to avoid, blame, judge and justify. You have that right.… outright insult from here

If you want things to remain the same, then continue avoiding, blaming, judging and justifying. That is your right indeed. Such is the world we build.… outright insult from here

Now. That being said, you have the right to waste your time typing to me just like I have the right to not care enough to read. Have a lovely evening.

In fact… it wasn’t even directed specifically at you. But you took it personally for some reason, and felt the need to illustrate just how it applied to you specifically. All the while I acknowledged that it was well within your rights to be that way.

So I’ll ask again, non insultingly. A simple question to all, “How will any of your suggestions be transformed into action or real world examples that will actually change things beyond what they already are?”

To the moderators…

Why have I been censored for pointing out what @Arisztid already said about himself or agreed to about himself?

I see no need to change the world. I chose not to have children. I should not have to change things for those that do. They should have to change things. Simple fact, not all of us find children to be adorable little darlings. Many of us are, at best, indifferent to children. Why should we be forced to compromise or give up our personal feelings and/or way of life for the sake of children, especially ones we care nothing about?

As far as this question being from the perspective of an autistic child, well, the question itself does not say that. The asker uses an example of an autistic child screaming as the reason for the question. They do not specifically state, in the question, that the kids are autistic. It simply asks what you do when your kids throw a fit in public. So there is no need for answerers to use autism as a criteria for there responses.

A trap many fall into in answering questions, is to read a question, then put their own views into it. Once they do that, they try and direct others’ responses to their personal views. I try not to do that. I answer the question, as it is asked. If someone puts their own view on it, I will try and answer them, as well, if I am in the mood. I have done so here.

A lot of people speak of freedoms. How they have rights. Well there is an old saying. Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. If what you do impacts me, it infringes on my rights. A screaming child, or a child having a fit in my vicinity, infringes on my right to do whatever I am doing, without listening to it. If I do not know the child, unless they have a visible handicap, I have no way of knowing why they are doing what they are doing. And truthfully, I don’t care, nor do I have to.

If an adult brings an unruly child out in public, regardless of why they are unruly, they need to expect the other adults around that child, that are impacted by what that child is doing, to get upset. Unfortunately, in this world, most people feel that the rights they have are either more important, or supersede the rights of others. Instead of majority ruling, saying “we don’t want to have to deal with this, remove it from our presence,” it becomes “suck up and deal with it, it’s the way it is, and while you are at it, have sympathy for the poor parent, or the innocent child, because we say you should.”

Say what you want, feel what you want, and allow me the freedom to do the same. If you have any courtesy, you do your best to not negatively impact others, and they do the same. If everyone did that, the world would improve. But that’s not how it is. Unfortunately.

What parenting techniques work best? Are there resources (like the free daycare idea) that would solve the problem so everyone is happy? Maybe we can just “fix it” so there’s not a problem anymore. How do we do that?

@escapedone7 I think that what parenting techniques work best are dependent on the situation. I do not believe that lax parenting is the way, however. I knew an 18 year old who was a flat out criminal because his mother got him off of everything and let him do whatever he wanted. I believe that electronic babysitters are overused. I believe that parents rely too much on schools and the government to do the parenting for them.

I think that this is too large of an issue, having built over too much time, to just fix it.

It would require parents recommitting to actual parenting, a revamped school system, CPS working correctly, an ability for parents to make a living without both parents having to work would help or, at least, affordable babysitting programs, and more than I can imagine.

Sites like you posted can be a start.

Setting real world examples is the best place to start.

@Keysha

From the OP… “The mother had a huge order and kept telling the cashier and people around her that the child was autistic.”

What are you talking about when you say: “As far as this question being from the perspective of an autistic child, well, the question itself does not say that. The asker uses an example of an autistic child screaming as the reason for the question.”
___________________

Doublespeak

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies The question is: What do you do when your kids throws a fit in public? That is what I mean, which is exactly what I said. That is what I was answering, from the perspective of one that does not have kids, but has experienced kids acting out in public around me, as well as nieces and nephews acting out (which had us leaving immediately).

Please stop the nitpicking attacks on us.

Your very first comment on this thread addressed the autism just to shoot it down.
@Keysha said: “I wish to point out that the mother SAID the child was autistic. This does not mean he was.”

It was the first thing you said. This allowed you to proceed explaining your issues with “annoying brats”.

From then on, your comments were concerned with nothing more than your own personal comfort and liberties. Again, you have the right to feel any way you wish. You also have the right to offer real world suggestions of how to help, as others did.

To some, hearing adults cry about their personal discomfort is almost as annoying as hearing children cry about their personal discomfort. Adults can also offer solutions, and set real world examples for others to witness. Children rarely can, autistic or not.

Pointing out what you said is not nitpicking attacks. I’ve acknowledged your right to “feel” how you do. I would actually fight for your right to have your own “feelings”. Will you deny me the right to “feel” as I do about crying adults? Will you consider my question of how your “feelings” will help as an attack? Do I have a right to my feelings without being accused of attacking or insulting you?

Really, just tell me, autistic or not, how will anything you’ve said change anything for anyone other than yourself? It’s a simple question. Don’t call it an attack when it isn’t.

[mod says] Seriously people. Take this to back and forth arguing to PMs.

@augustlan

Please review my comments very carefully. I am not arguing. I’m asking for people to explain themselves. I’ve been accused of attacking and insulting others in the process. Just because I’m asking questions that people don’t like.

No such insulting or attacking words have been spoken and should not be interpreted as such.

@augustlan Not a problem. It’s not worth it to keep answering. I’m done.

I think it’s worth pointing out that there are a lot of parents who have children that do not act out in public or get handed everything they want in life. Unfortunately, those are the only parents and children people tend to notice in a public situation. I can understand being annoyed by kids who don’t behave and parents who let them get away with it. I don’t see it very often at all, certainly not every time I go to the store, a movie, or a restaurant. Luckily it doesn’t bother me all that much, but it does make me appreciate my own kids more.

For years I worked with little kids in a daycare situation, and the vast majority of the parents were really doing well with raising their kids. There are a lot of us who don’t believe kids should have their own TVs, computers, cell phones, or whatever. There are a lot of us who don’t tolerate our kids acting like brats in public, but you wouldn’t notice them simply because they aren’t doing things to attract your attention.

Please don’t lump all parents into the same group. There is so much judgment on parents today and so little tolerance for babies and kids who act like kids. I don’t mean an 8 year old, who should certainly know better, but a two year old is not always going to cooperate no matter how well a parent plans or how well they discipline at home.

@MissAusten In my case, you are wrong.

I DO notice well behaved children, appreciate them and the parents, and have, on more than one occasion, expressed my appreciation and “good job” to them. A well behaved child is a true blessing and I do notice.

As far as the rest of your last sentence, as I said repeatedly, I just quietly leave. I have told how I would handle such a situation but I know that I am just one guy. I was raised to do everything humanely possible to not impact the peace of others, my father minimized my impact on others when I was that young, and I would do the same. I do not expect the rest of the world to follow suit.

I really need to swear off ever expressing my views in these threads.

@arisztid I’ve learned a lot from your posts, actually. I’ve learned a lot from you. I can’t be the only one. You are articulate. You have a gift for explaining things in a way other people can’t get across as well. (You do know that, right?) It takes something to come in and present the other side but in such a way. You’re quiet tone has a strangely strong impact. Please don’t stop contributing. I agree we have beat this issue into the ground but always feel free to fluther. You’re an important contributor to this community and I for one would miss your posts.

@escapedone7 Thankyou. :D I have been told that a few times. I am just going to steer clear of topics like this one. I usually do but, for some reason, I did not here.

@Arisztid My comments weren’t directed at you, and I have absolutely no problem or argument with your point of view. I particularly liked your post about how you would react if you had a child. I also think it’s great that you notice kids who behave well and comment on it. I can tell you first-hand how appreciated that is. It’s also kind of rare, which makes it all the more wonderful. :) Please don’t swear off expressing your views because you do it very well.

My post was a general comment, and not aimed at anyone in particular.

@MissAusten Thankyou most kindly! I guess after the, err, issues my wife @Keysha and I have had in this thread, I taking things to be directed at me.

I believe that anyone who raises a child well, especially in this time and day, is a blessing. Whenever I do express my appreciation to a parent like that I can tell that they do not get such comments often. It makes all parties’ day better and shows how rarely they hear that.