Should we allow gay Ugandans to seek asylum in Western countries?

God forbid that we should let in a fake one. Better to let them all die.

Given that some U.S. (religious homophobic nut-bags) people have supported the bill, we should do everything in our power to counter their efforts and offer asylum to people we put in danger.

Hum.

That’s a tricky issue. It would be unfair to let the gay people in but not everyone else. But is it feasible to just let everyone in?

@dpworkin
Sorry that’s not how I wanted it to sound.

If we can give asylum to German parents wanting to homeschool their kids, then we should definitely give asylum to people facing death.

I would be more in favor of putting their religious leaders to death.

@FutureMemory
Now, now. It’s not polite to put people to death.

@Fyrius they started it! if they feel it’s okay to put people to death, why don’t they try it?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
I don’t care who started it! Go to your room, both of you!

Just Gay Men? Not Gay women?

@ChazMaz Good question!

@ChazMaz
Oh snap.

Of course we should. Frankly, it’s not like the asylum process is easy, they are actually going to have to prove that they are being persecuted, just saying they are gay with no evidence to back it up isn’t going to cut it under the current system. The question then becomes whether we should liberalize the system for Ugandans, or what should the level of proof required be. On that, I just don’t know.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
It’s not just the politicians it’s cultural there, due to they’re society and strong christian, if we take down the people at the top they will only be replaced by more of the same.

@ChazMaz
If both are going to be put to death then both.

@tripe Those people ‘at the top’ can do less harm if we didn’t offer our financial support. I understand the entire culture is homophobic, but that’s not the the entire point.

[ removed by me for being unnecessarily belligerent and off topic. ]

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
I’m for that at the moment to, to stop all trade and aid, but I’m not too sure how I feel about that.

@tripe There is no reason to stop aid – in some instance, aid is desperately needed but supporting the anti-gay law, that’s aid of a different sort, the criminal kind.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
Ok this is a different matter, but don’t you think it will put the leaders under more pressure to not put this law through?

Let the lesbians live! Let the lesbians live!

I like lesbians. ;-)

@tripe They do not care for their people – they will not care if we stop aid – only the people on the ground will suffer.

To be honest, I think we should just open the borders, then we don’t have to have silly discussions and court cases over which ideologies and which policies constitute grounds for asylum and which don’t. There have been plenty of cases of actual persecution denied asylum, and plenty of silly cases that were allowed, and I would bet anything that you could draw a pretty strong correlation between denied asylum and skin color and poverty.

What’s the ratio for gays to straights in Uganda? We may be making much ado over nothing.

Until somebody takes down the sign on the Statue of Liberty, the words still stand.

We have the moral responsibility and the means to provide asylum to people for whom dying is a very real possibility. It isn’t going to be a perfect situation, so if we mentally prepare for the reality of it, then it won’t seem so bad when they’re here. With the deeply stupid decisions our government has made, this one I can live with.

I can believe some Christians are actually supporting this. As a Christian myself, I firmly believe that to truly live is to love, even those who you disagree with…I mean…putting someone to death just because they happen to be different is a little extreme. The God that said that homosexuality is wrong is the God of the Old Testament…heck…Jesus never even mentioned anything about homosexuality (even though its a evidently widely debated issue today) and I have to remind people over and over again He said to “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” Those of you who don’t love yourselves….just keep it to yourself and stop killing people.

@phillis
“What’s the ratio for gays to straights in Uganda? We may be making much ado over nothing.”
How so? Even if there are only two gays in the entire nation, would that make the issue less serious?

One order of education and one order of common sense for Uganada please.
To go.

My. Uganda’s getting serious.
Just out of curiosity, can any of you prove that they shouldn’t be doing this?

@belakyre What happened to God being eternal and unchanging? He still doesn’t like homosexuality, and it is by grace alone that such can be saved.

@Nullo You want us to prove that killing is wrong? What’s wrong with you?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Sure. Logic and proofs and all that. Bonus points for including all of the legislation. I told you that I’m curious. Can you deliver?

@Nullo Whatever logic you use to support unborn fetuses right to live – use that, you understand it more, it’s familiar.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
You don’t understand. I’ve already worked out the logic to my approach to the matter (and no, you probably won’t like it). I wanna see you guys do it. Too often it seems that the average person who posts on a controversial issue is answering the way that society expects him to answer. It would be nice for them to show their work now and then.
“Yes, yes! Jump through my flaming hoops!”

@Nullo: Answer @Simone_De_Beauvoir‘s question. I want to see if you can.

@Nullo I think that fundamentally there is no need to prove that a person should be allowed to live. The burden of proof lies with he would kill a human being for any reason.

Sod it, I think we should just let everyone go everywhere!

@Nullo I agree with @Snarp – the burden of proof is not on me to show you why someone shouldn’t be killed – it should be on you, but since no such proof exists (what god says, what the bible says, what your mom says are all irrelevant) for murder based on someone’s sexuality, then you lose. And this is not what society expects me to answer, it is what I believe, fundamentally – and why are you under continued impression that your views are somehow revolutionary because they’re unpopular – sometimes, some views are too abhorrent to support, not because they ‘rock the boat’, but because you don’t deserve to be on the boat if you think others should be kicked off it. and your general tone bothers me, if you want an intelligent conversation, stop sounding so foolish or I will not continue to discuss this with you..jumping through hoops or not, it’s sad that I already paid this ridiculous statement of yours enough attention

I think it’s a bit misguided to try to tackle Nullo’s question with the burden of proof.

@Nullo
“Just out of curiosity, can any of you prove that they shouldn’t be doing this?”
Let me counter that with another question: could you prove that we shouldn’t all jump off a cliff?
The answer is no, you can’t, because that’s not the sort of thing proof is for. Proof is for matters of truth. You can prove that course of action A will lead to situation S, but not that situation S would be bad.
That’s where science ends and ethics begin.

On ethical grounds, then, I think we can all agree that killing people for no reason is bad. (If anyone disagrees, please raise your hand.)
Given that, it’s up to people who don’t think killing gay people is bad to explain to us why homosexuality would be a valid reason to justify killing people.

@Fyrius Your wording is better than mine. It’s not really proof, but it is about providing a valid reason and it is up to those supporting killing, not the other way around.

Shouldn’t these evangelists be indicted for clearly commiting hate crime?

Word @mammal
It’s certain that we, a nation that has accepted refugees in the past, would stop short at this civil rights violation. We should be embarrassed as a nation if we discriminate based on sexual preference.

@Nullo He still doesn’t like homosexuality, and it is by grace alone that such can be saved.

Homosexuality is no more a sin than any other sin. If gay people should be killed, then so should everyone because everyone is a sinner.

Sometimes I get the feeling you just take the radical conservative view on things to be “shocking”. It’s really quite amusing. The next thing you’re going to tell us is that you believe Fred Phelps is a true Christian. Or have you already said that and I just missed it?

@DominicX and indeed it isn’t shocking at all, we hear over the top hate-filled tripe all the time

let them in, let everyone go wherever they want i say. i notice a lot of people have a problem with immigrants and asylum seekers, yet they dont thin twice about moving to france to retire or something.

the world is just a wet ball of mud, let the walking piles of proteins stick to any side of it they like.

i notice a lot of this hate of homosexuality comes from religion, but this makes me wonder so much. the bible called being gay and abomination, but then again it also says that about lobster and other shellfish. as for other scriptures its the same thing.

Having to prove that you shouldnt kill gay people is pretty much a non starter.
That’s just a nonsensical statement meant to generate a public reaction.

@Nullo It’s not exactly the type of thing you’d do a randomized controlled trial/experiment for.

So, no, I can’t prove it. But it’s still the wrong thing to do.

Even Idi Amin didn’t go that far.

@ChazMaz You know how uptight, self doubting “straight” guys are (even in Uganda) Gay men scare them because they worry about being gay themselves or they might be irresistable to gay men. On the other hand they are so in the dark about women they are only turned on by watching

@Fyrius I am so glad you asked me instead of assuming. I owe you a thank you for that. When people are granted asylum they are often a drain on state and federal funding, too (not all of them, but some). I can’t think of any reason we wouldn’t “allow” them here, other than that. My point was that there might not be enough gay Ugandan’s to bother ruffling feathers over. We don’t even really care if they’re gay or not, anyway. If their lives are in danger, give them safe harbour.

@DominicX
“The next thing you’re going to tell us is that you believe Fred Phelps is a true Christian.”
(Ironically, I recall I’ve said that at some point. Though of course that was in criticism of Jesus’ original teachings, and never in praise of that grey ball of hate.)

@phillis
I see. I didn’t get that. Thanks for clarifying.
And I think a little patience on my part was just proper manners, nothing more.

@Fyrius grey ball of hate – lol

@Fyrius it’s a little thing, but it means a lot to me. Thank you for the extra effort.

Found this, thought of the thread.

From a more aesthetic standpoint, what do you think of the clip’s format?