Is there such a thing as a really "green" car?

It’s much easier to control emissions when power production is centralized.

“Green” is a relative term.

And, yes, as the person below points out, efficiency makes a difference.

I should also say, electric cars are not a new thing. The technology is older than I am.

You need energy to move. The more efficiently it is used, the better for the environment.

There will be no truly green car until all energy production involving fossil fuels ceases to exist.

“Green” is relative. I’ve seen a few studies that all have approximately the same conclusion. Since most people drive 60 miles or less a day, and calculating the increased pollution from power plants due to increased demand, we’d still wind up dramatically ahead of where we are now even if the only thing we did was make EVs with a 60-mile range (or hybrids capable of doing 60 miles on pure electric power).

And yes, EVs are over a century old In fact, a century ago, gas engines were the expensive, finicky technology. They ran on something that was sold at drug stores as a cleaning solvent. And the first internal combustion engines were diesels; IIRC, they actually ran on what we now call “biodiesel”... or was it vegetable oil?

Regardless, we’ve taken a huge step backwards in engine technology and screwed ourselves in the process by switching to dead dinosaur juice and burning it in something that is less than 30% efficient. Why do you think cars have such a relatively large cooling system? Over 70% of the gasoline’s energy is wasted, and much of that waste is in the form of heat!

The following is a link to the Nissan leaf electric car which inspired my question.

I’m not technically minded so it’‘ll take some time to digest what the implications of this car are for energy use /environment

http://www.sevensidedcube.net/technology/2010/nissan-leaf-review-specs-price-now-manufacturing-in-sunderland/

Not really, no. The production of these cars will be highly damaging to the environment even if the cars themselves produce no emmisions.

The closest thing to a truly green car can be had today.

But it takes a bit of dedication and work. Just buy a new or used car with a diesel engine.

A fairly simple. conversion kit involving a switching mechanism between two tanks and a heater for one enables it to run on WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) which can be obtained at any restaurant using oil in a fryer.

Vegetarian Asian or Indian buffets are preferable over Hamburger joints as there’s less crud to strain out.

After you collect the oil, it sits for awhile to let most of the sediment settle and then run through a really fine filter.

When Rudolph Diesel first designed his engine it did run on vegetable oil so it can still do so today.

And if you have chemistry smarts, ( unfortunately I don’t) you can take the WVO and convert it to biodiesel.

Willie Nelson is establishing a series of biodiesel stations in Texas. There are several environmentally conscious musicians who are running their tour buses on biodiesel.

Anyone can do this altho it’s easier to run on WVO in warmer climates as the oil heats up faster so it isn’t too viscous to run through the lines.

But if cost is no object, you could be running a green car as soon as you get a diesel and order some barrels of biodiesel from Internet sources.
biodiesel doesn’t require heating and can be used as is.
It’s only the WVO which requires heating. There is plenty of detailed info all over the net along with sources.

Mike Rowe did an episode if Dirty Jobs featuring a guy who makes his own biodiesel and they show the whole process. He not only runs a car on it but heats his whole house as well.

Anyone desiring to be truly green could do the same. Can you imagine no longer having to pay exhorbitant fuel prices ?
To be out from under Opec’s thumb? Our government could be doing this if it weren’t for the likes of Cheyney, Bush, etc. and all their fat cat oil buddies.

When I initially researched this several years ago I was amazed. I just put the phrase veggie car into search and followed the trail. Amazing.

A fleet of electric cars charged by a nuclear power station would be zero emissions. Alternatively you could just get a green car.

@FireMadeFlesh Or one of these.

@Firemadeflesh If there were enough Nuclear power stations that might be possible, but here in The British Isles that is just a dream ( or nightmare whatever your view on nuclear ).
We are being warned of future possible energy shortfalls because of lack of forward planning, and thats within the next ten years. So where we are supposed to get all this electric power for cars is a mystery, if we’re going into a period of great uncertainty as it is.

@jerv I’d never heard of them before. The funny thing is everyone is making electric cars these days, and there’s heaps of new companies springing up who think they can do it better than the big guys. Good luck to them!

@Sandydog Here in Australia, the power is almost definitely going to come from coal. Thankfully that still works out to be lower emissions than petrol powered cars. It may be no cheaper though because our intellectually deficient government wants an ETS.

If we find a way to use solar power to make electricity, that would go a long way to keeping carbon emissions to a minimum.

But the other thing is the energy involved in building a car, and the materials costs and especially the things you need to do to make the batteries. I’m not sure what those things are, but I hear they cause a lot of pollution.

While we were waiting to get our oil changed yesterday at the Honda dealer. There was a Civic that ran on compressed natural gas in the showroom. While not entirely green, it looked like it made significantly less pollutants than the regular Civic. It also only had a range of about 150 miles. So a trip from my home to visit relatives is out of the question. PLUS there is an added 7000 for the privilege of having a short range.

If you run a car on WVO, what little emissions there are smell like French Fries :)

We might be a little fatter from the temptation, but the air would smell a whole lot better.

:D

Also, producing corn ethanol is totally inefficient and un-environmentally friendly. Not only is it super fossil fuel intensive to make (corn subsidies, again), you get less mpg on it than regular gas. We’d do ourselves a favor just by getting rid of corn ethanol and corn subsidies.

@FireMadeFlesh Actually, that “car” is technically an LSV (Low Speed Vehicle). WA sate is generous enough to allow them on roads with a posted speed limit of 40MPH, though you have to do some quasi-legal hacking to remove the 35MPH governor. Allegedly it’s due to crash test regulations, but I fail to see how they are less safe than a motorcycle. C’est la vie.

@jerv What rubbish! 35mph is 56 km/h, which is just painfully slow. I’d prefer a Tesla, or if plug in hybrids are allowed then a Fisker Karma.

<—- Because I dont know how to post a picture, I changed this picture to my little truck. 500cc’s of raw power! It doesn’t require a license tag because the law thinks it’s a lawn tractor. It is a delivery vehicle from Yokohama called a ‘Kei Class’ vehicle. Japan designated them for some reason back in the late ‘60’s. If I were to hit a moose, I would most surely die; but I can go for 2 months on 8 gallons of gasoline.

@FireMadeFlesh If I did more highway driving, I would agree. However, now that I live in Seattle, it’s a different ballgame. Thanks to traffic, the only way I can go much over 35 is to hit I-5, and even then it slows to >30MPH once you get South of about exit 182 in the afternoon. The Zenn was designed for city driving.
For general use, I would rather have John Wayland’s rigs; either the White Zombie or Blue Meanie. Actually, given my fondness for loud music, I think the Blue Meanie since the zombie has a stripped-out racing interior.
The nice thing is that either could be replicated for less than $20K which makes them cheaper than most new cars currently on the market. If I had the money though, I wouldn’t mind a Tesla Model S.

@majorrich My eyes are tired. Is that a Daihatsu Midget?

The greenest car I can figure is to buy a used diesel (no extra strain since it’s already made) and switching it to bio.

Electric cars are fine but unless it’s made without toxic materials (which they are IIRC) and run on renewable energy, then I don’t truly consider them green. Greener perhaps, but not truly green.

Mitsubishi minicab. It’s my baby.

@jerv I live in the city too, but here it is mostly the motorways that are clogged. I still manage to do 60–80 on my morning commute, although mostly because I leave home before the traffic really starts to pile up. Maybe it would be more useful in somewhere like Tokyo.

@FireMadeFlesh Try that on WA-99 and see how far you get ;)
Suffice it to say, I think that Seattle is closer to Tokyo (trafficwise) than your neck of the woods. It sure as hell is different than NH where I was on clear roads where I could actually do 60-ish though not much faster if I wanted to make the corners and didn’t have to stop for redlights every ½-mile or so. Of course, I also no longer need a car that can handle six inches of mud, a foot of snow, etcetera.

Yes, manufactured using a cradle to cradle design, while all mining, recycling and manufacturing energy comes from renewable sources, as well as all of the car’s operation. We’re not there yet, but we will be. It’s important to evolve in exactly this direction.

Thats funny because a standard ev conversion only costs between .05—.07 cents a day if you live in IL. as far as electric needs power stations which pollute is very misleading. Those power plants would be spewing poison whether your charging your car or running your hair dryer. And not to mention I dont have to go out of my to a gas station to fill up either, just go home plug it and done, and it doesn’t use up anymore electric than say leaving your tv on all night. which more than 40% of Americans tend to do anyway so yeah theres huge huge cost benefits. But not if you buy an all electric car from the major car manufactures. Conversion is the key to being as green as you can get.

Sorry what I meant to say is it only costs .05—.07 a day to recharge a standard ev conversion. The conversion itself cost me just under 3k that includes the $650 for the donor car.

Heres a radical idea maybe someone can actually get it to work. The reason an EV can be self sustainable is because you can not charge the batteries while theres a load on them. So what I was thinking a separate battery pack of 4 12 volt deep cycle. each of the 4 batteries are tied to an alternator. when the main pack starts to draw down , a switching plate switching the load onto the alternators, 1 alternator feeds the dc motor while the other 3 recharge the battery pack. in my garage i have been able to charge 24 12v deep cycle’s in 15mins. I have no idea how it would work on the car yet i havent found anyone smart enough to design the switching plate itself. But if any1 else can figure it out would be really sweet. Of course recharging the four batteries on the alternators is another story. The idea would be you only have to use them 15 mins every 60miles or so. so maybe every 3–400miles you may have to stop and recharge the 4. which would take nolonger than fueling up. Just an Idea. if anyone can tear it apart please do. So I know what has to be tweaked or adjusted.

@Arthur You can edit answers within ten minutes of posting if you want to append to them, you do not have to make a new post each time.