Shouldn't the Republicans take credit for Obamacare?

When it all comes down to it, the democrats removed the public option, and after 2014 the IRS is going to fine me if i don’t pay into their healthcare. That’s not acceptable, and if the nation were allowed to vote on this, it would fail dismally. IDAFF who’s responsible, but it’s not right for a bunch of politicians to force this bill through when the country doesn’t want it.

(I’m aware I take a pretty strong opinion of this, and I sincerely apologize if I offended someone)

I think it safe to say that just about everything that’s ever come out of DC has pissed a lot of people off :P

However, the people have wanted something done about healthcare for a looooong time, and this radical legislation is the first thing that came through, so people did want it since they were so against the status quo that the GOP did nothing about.

The “people” did not want this. Obama and his House of Reps did. In February 2010, Gallup found a new low of 36% approval for President Obama’s handling of healthcare

Remember middle of last year? The majority supported the bill. That was when the public option was still in it and was not riddled so much with concessions to the insurance industry.

@iam2smart99037 A Pew Research Study poll in June 2009 found that most Americans believe that the nation’s health care system is in need of substantial changes.

I never claimed that they wanted this, just that they wanted something and this was better than any other prop… oh, wait, there were no other proposals. Thus are the dangers of inaction.

@iam2smart99037 :: That includes pissed off liberals that wanted single payer or the public option.

Warning PDF. Remember that most everyone one agrees with them if you poll them on each individual part.

@iam2smart99037 same over here, national insurance contributions are obligatory, honestly, it’s no big deal, get over it. Americans pay piss all tax anyway, Gas is dirt cheap, what’s the problem? No one seems to care about all the taxes spent on waging wars., i don’t understand this fuck wit mentality.

@iam2smart99037 You have it wrong. You won’t have to pay a fine into govt insurance. You have the choice to pay into for profit insurance companies. With this bill corp insurance will have to take you. The whole idea behind requiring health insurance is the same as having car insurance-if you have a minor accident, we don;t have to pay for it. For the fewer serious instances we all pitch in.

My favorite quote of the day

Invoking Republican Sen. Jim DeMint’s (R-SC) infamous remarks last July that killing the legislation would be President Obama’s “Waterloo,” David Frum offered a dire assessment of the GOP’s fate. ”[I]t’s Waterloo all right: ours,” he wrote

He promptly lost his job at a conservative think tank.

The best part is the violence and death threats politicians received from those ‘patriots’. And then they condemn the behaviour of islamist radicals, when they are perfectly willing to do the same. Seriously…

Don’t want to say too much here, but Gallup found that Obama’s Job Approval is now at 51% and a joint poll by USA Today and Gallup directly after the signing that by a 49–40% majority people said it was a good thing the bill passed. Just saying that it seems, at least to Gallup (which, i believe, are generally considered rather good in the poll buisness. Correct me if I’m wrong), that public opinion is now in favor of the bill. Fancy that.

@BhacSsylan Is it possible that the low support some people claim for this bill may have had something to do with how long it was being dragged out in committee, bouncing between the House and Senate, and generally taking up valuable news time that could be better spent describing Tiger Woods’ sexual exploits?
I mean, I tend to burn out on things and want them to die horribly once they stay in the spotlight too long. Why do you think Avatar made me hate anything colored blue for a while?

I think by virtue of the fact that they got the public option removed, they got their idea of a penalty for not participating put in (that was originally a Republican proposal but now they bitch about it), they managed to keep the profit margins of the for profit insurers far higher than they would have been, they got a ban on using federal funds for abortion…basically they got everything they originally said they wanted, but they’re acting like what was passed was what the liberals wanted, when they compromised way more than they should have. If we were just going to ram this down their throats, I don’t really understand why we didn’t pull the plug on for profit insurance and just massively expanded Medicare. Republicans deserve a LOT of credit for this bill.

Well, we’ve already established that many Republicans are insane.

But seriously, I would think that they’d want to play it up more as them defending what is right for America in the face of overwhelming odds (their minority party status in Congress) rather than do what they are doing which is causing great harm to our nation. As a moderate Independent,

I would be more likely to vote Republican if they weren’t completely fucking bonkers, and I think it safe to say that they will never have a chance to do the right thing if they can’t get the support of the swing-voters. The only way this makes sense to me is if their goal is to incite a costly, bloody civil war, in which case they are forgetting how badly the last one we had hurt our country. Given a choice between Socialism and a theocratic Corporocracy, I’ll take Socialism, thank you!

Then again, I’d rather have a third choice, but that doesn’t seem to be an option :(

@jerv

Sounds to me like you have have no concept of the true scope of the republican party.

(not a insult, just an observation)

Gee whiz @jerv I don’t know if you watch the news or not but last time I looked it’s the Democrats who are in charge so how could the Republicans possible get back to governing this country??? I’m sure they would be glad to but the super majority keeps fanning the flames of extreme hypocrisy and has bent over backwards to ensure a partisan approach to every bit of legislation that occurs. So just sit back and enjoy the next 2 and ¾ years of the change that the majority of Americans asked for it will only hurt a little bit but I could be wrong.

@jerv On another note here…during GWB time in office he received more death threats than any other President and even award winning documentaries were made that called for the end to his life. Nobody made a big stink about those moments and in time and the net result was it all quietly went away. Cantor gets a bullet through his campaign office window and all he wants is for the media to go pound sand yet the DNC is as you call it fanning the flames over this no biggie event. Let it go and do something more productive with your time.

FYI…

Cantor said he would not be releasing any information about the other threats he’s received, as some lawmakers have done, out of concern that it would “encourage more to be sent.”

And he admonished his colleagues—specifically Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine—for “dangerously fanning the flames by suggesting these incidents be used as a political weapon.”

“Any suggestion that a leader in this body would incite threats or acts against other members is akin to saying that I would endanger myself, my wife or my children,” Cantor said. “It is reckless to use these incidents as media vehicles for political gain.”

I dont think anyone should want take credit for it

@dalepetrie – I agree with everything you said, except for the last sentence, “Republicans deserve a LOT of credit for this bill.”

I’m not saying the Democrats haven’t made mistakes, but I find it very difficult to give Republicans credit for anything but purposely wasting taxpayer time and money and helping water down what would have been a far superior healthcare reform bill. Their childish foot stamping, disinformation campaigns and criminal inaction amount to nothing less than a massively wasteful circle-jerk which was propagated against ALL Americans and what makes it worse is that they did it on company time.

Ya know, those polls about whether the public wants this or that don’t mean a damn thing. It’s so easy to sway a poll with the phrasing that you use, you can get whatever result you want. Never mind the massive amount of (intentional) misinformation that has been promulgated.

Stop whining and make the best of the situation. If it doesn’t work, then Congress can rework the whole thing and pass new legislation. (In theory. They’re much more likely to bitch and moan and point fingers and accomplish practically nothing while getting a paycheck out of my tax money.)

@syz Is absolutely right. The important poll will be on November 6, 2012

I would have to agree with mammal, the Americans are already paying taxes, especially the war that we have been involved in for about 8 years now. But I suppose if Americans would rather pay taxes to wage war on other countries than to cover the health of American Citizens, then whatever. I guess it is considered Socialism or Un-American to ensure that every American gets an affordable way to receive healthcare, but sending hundreds of thousands of Americans to war (an unpopular war at that) is very American. Also on a side note, I do not know why the Republicans are going so nuts over this. The universal healthcare they have enjoyed in Massachusetts for years, which is almost a photocopy of the bill passed sunday… was signed into law by Mitt Romney.. the current most likely Republican contender to Obama in 2012

@Rufus_T_Firefly – I should have said “a lot of credit for what’s wrong with the bill”

Expecting a politician from any political party to step up and do the right thing is not unlike wishing for unicorns. What makes you think that they would be willing to do it en masse? These fine people are their by election, so far as we know, and have thier sights planted firmly on their ambitious futures. In thier eyes, you proposal is ludicrous and in diametric opposition to that goal. With that in mind, I am in complete agreement with you on the accountability issue. If you want, I’m going mermaid hunting soon. You’re welcomed to come with.

@phillis As a member of the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Mermaids, I must request that you cease and desist. :)

@Dr_Dredd It’s strictly catch and release. Too much mercury in thier tails to be of much use :)

@dalepetrie – Can’t disagree with that!

@DrBill Do you mean aside from the fact that they have drifted away from their core beliefs, many of which I actually agree with? Admit it, the Republican party has changed a lot, and I think that many Conservatives would agree that it isn’t their party any more.

@Cruiser Media coverage aside, I think we can agree that both parties are full of bad people right now. Both sides are all-too-ready to get up in arms about something, whether it’s a stray bullet that is timed to coincide with death threats or cries of “Socialism!”. Neither side is squeaky clean.
It would be nice if the people governing our nation were of a higher caliber than the average person, but the sad truth is that they are just as human as the rest of us. The only real difference is that they are charismatic enough to get other people (voters who don’t feel like running for office themselves) to put them in charge. They will drink and chase women or men just like any other person, and their shit still stinks like the rest of us, so that leads to either misguided optimism and/or jaded cynicism.
And that transcends party lines. How many times have you voted for a less-than-ideal candidate whose views were in opposition to your own on some issues? Which leads to this: are you a Republican, a Democrat, or a citizen who wants whats best for their country? Personally, I fall into the last category and wish that there were more non-wingnut Republicans or a viable third party in order to have some semblance of fairness decency, and balance in our government.
This country was heading down one wrong path for a long time and, since 2008, is heading down another wrong path, and I am sick of it!

@jerv The only wingnuts I see in this process are the fans in the stands just like the over zealous sports fans who blindly cheer for their team. Most if not all of our elected officials in the house and Senate didn’t get there because of some “wingnut” conspiracy to raise holy hell just for! These are as you said real people but they do come with pedigree resumes and in many cases substantial backgrounds that do qualify them for their jobs. Some may be fish out of water doing a stint as a stepping stone to another level down the road but in pretty much every case they are representing the will of their people and quite obviously their party and in more than some cases reluctantly.

So this current outburst against Obamacare is really the people taking reins of a task that transcends the current political process that has done all it can to conduct itself outside the view of the very people it serves and many people are very unhappy about the way things have been handled. Had Obama simply lived up to his promise of transparency much of this hubris would be non existant.

@Cruiser Mostly true, but you also have a few (on both sides) that are raising hell if for no reason other than to appeal to their constituency.

Personally, I think that a lot of this could have been avoided if there had been a more moderate plan set forth and passed a few years ago rather than an all-at-once sweeping reform during a period where the nation is more highly polarized and the economy is in the toilet. And after a few years of W, promising transparency is a good way to get votes whether you keep that promise or not :P

@jerv Come on and face it! The only reason people have their undies in a bunch is times are tough…tougher than they have ever been and they are simply fed up over the situation they are in and want to let someone, anyone know they have had enough. Obama promised change during his campaign and was elected on this promise…the change people are seeing is a far cry from what was promised and can you really blame them for being upset because of this??

@Cruiser No, I can’t blame them for being upset. I have to wonder why they weren’t upset when the same stuff was happening under W though. And then people were upset that Obama can’t just wave a magic wand, sprinkle a little fairy dust, and make everything all better.

I am a realist. I know that there is great inertia, so you can’t get anything done quickly. I also know that it takes a lot more to dig yourself out of a deep hole than to correct for a minor glitch. Many people seem to think that the economic good times we had under Clinton were the result of Bush-41, that the economic collapse under W was due to Clinton, and yet the reason we are still in the hole is due to Obama, even when he had only been in office a week and hadn’t even had time to do anything. Note the Republicans getting all of the credit there while the Democrats get all of the blame?

I also know that ALL politicians will say whatever they need to to get elected. My take on that is that anybody who believes a politician is setting themselves up for disappointment right off the bat. Sure, maybe Obama actually wants to do what he says, but come on!

By the way, how can we get dramatic change if there is the sort of opposition he is facing? You have Republicans that are holding up appointments that they actually approve of for no reason other than to try to throw a wrench into the works and torque off the Democrats. Tell me why we all shouldn’t be upset by the Republicans?!

Does being a Republican give you carte blanche? Do we have a double standard here? My undies are in a wad because of the inequality, both there and elsewhere like income distribution.

Or maybe it’s because people are upset by change and prefer the status quo whether they will admit it or not.

BTW – I found this article by Bill Maher to be entertaining, and quite relevant. It was also funny reading a few of the comments, like this one from Christians4Obama:
“Change is not what Democrats came to Washington to do.
Change is what American voters sent them to Washington to do.

From credit card reform to health care reform, the people’s business is finally being taken care of by the party that actually acts like adults and can get the job done. FINALLY.”

Where do I even start with this one. People may have wanted some kind of health care reform but they did not want the reform that just passed. All republicans voted against this healthcare bill. The only reason it passed is because there are now more democrats in congress than republicans. It is not fair or constitutional to require everyone to have health insurance or pay a fine. That only affects law abiding citizens that are legal citizens. You are still going to have illegal immigrants running around not paying there hospital bills. They were supposed to find a way to help people be able to pay there medical bills not make it harder for them to pay them. That requirement of everyone has to have healthcare and every employer has to provide for their employees is going to make the economy worse than it already is. Companies are now figuring the cost of this and figuring out how many people they will lay off to offset the extra millions to billions of dollars it will cost them each year. The current health care reform bill that passed is a joke and I dont even think Obama read he just signed it. This aministration has got to go. I am worse of financially and every other way since Obama became president. I am considering looking for a new place ( country ) to live if crap like this keeps passing in congress. They keep going in this direction there wont be a United States left. Also Americans will be paying higher taxes because of the new health care reform bill. The national debt will increase to pay for it too. Obama has increased the national debt so much in 2 years that people 5000 years from now will still be paying it. Anyway if the current stipulations stay in place in this health care bill private citizens may be filing law suits against the government also. Several states already have because they are trying to protect there citizens. I am glad that I live in one of the states that filed a lawsuit against the government over this sorry excuse of a health care bill. I will also say that I am not and was not an Obama supporter, but when he won I was like well lets see what he can do. So far he has done nothing but make things worse.

@jbran – First, not ALL Republicans voted against the healthcare bill. Most of them did and those that did did so for all the wrong reasons. There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about requiring everyone to be insured. You have to have car insurance, don’t you? And before you bring up the tired old argument that you can chose whether to drive a car or not, just remember that very few people, insured or not, would willingly make a choice where death is the end result. Certainly not if they could prevent it. The problem is that we uninsured don’t have that choice without this bill. It is NOT Socialism and it is NOT Communism. Not even freaking close. However, the bill’s passage does guarantee that the uninsured needing medical care will get it without having to lose their life savings and/or their homes when they succumb to an unexpected illness or disease and without automatically deferring that ultimate payment back to the government where it would have gone anyway because they were uninsured. That can only be good for the economy. The more prosperous the citizens, the more affluent the country.

The number of illegals receiving emergency healthcare will only increase if we don’t *ALL *get off our collective asses and do something about the influx of even more illegal aliens. I’m all for that, I just hope that people like you won’t continue to wish death on people like me just because I don’t already have health insurance.

The healthcare obligation may affect some larger employers, it may not. What it will do, is allow the creation of even more jobs in smaller start-up companies due to the money those businesses will save when that burden is removed by the national plan.

The fact that you’re worse off now than before Obama has exactly zilch to do with any of Obama’s policies or actions. Any economic issues that would cause businesses to run leaner or with fewer employees or that would cause them to pat out less in wages began with Bush 43 or even earlier, but it certainly didn’t begin with Obama. And, you’re wrong about things not getting better, at least Obama gave us some hope. I hope the states that sue over this bill enjoy paying the medical costs of the uninsured, the illegal and the indigent, because that’s precisely what they’ll continue to do.

I did not wish death on you. I used to have health insurance until I got laid off. It should not be required to have health insurance. If I am required to have it then the government should be responsible for paying the outrageous deductibles and copays. Also the price of health insurance will go up because of this and it will cost more people there jobs. Yes all republicans voted against the bill. I looked at the stats. Health insurance is also way over priced now as it is. That part of the bill requiring people to have health insurance or pay a fine is unconstitutional. I did not care for Bush that much but he was better than Obama. Obama has made things worse and will continue to do so. I did not like Bill Clinton either. I dont like Abe Lincoln or Jimmy Carter or Richard Nixon either. This is what happens when some moron with money buys an election. He just runs the country into the ground. He wasnt even born in The United States he just paid the state government of Hawaii to say that he was born there. I had a decen job until Obama became president and because of his dumb hurt the economy policies I lost my job. Obam has not given me any or anyone I know any hope. And there reasoning for the requirment of everyone to have health care makes no sense at all. They say it is to help reduce the number of people stiffing hospitals and other health care providers on their medical bills. Requiring everyone to have health insurance is not going to stop that or improve that situation. It may make it worse because people will be having to come up with a rediculous amount of money to pay for health insurance. Next thing you know they are going to hook us up to monitors and charge us an ungodly amount of money for the air that we breathe. The way Obama and his aministration are running this country something like that will come across the table sooner or later and some dumb democrat will be the one that came up with it. Ther are not called dumb o craps for no reason. If you want universal health care move to Canada. I dont mind if they have some kind of health care reform but the right kind. The health care bill that just passed is a bigger joke than Jay Leno getting his tonight show job back after he quit to go to prime time. He sucks at anything he does so he should have been shown the door. Maybe people will come to there senses and show Obama and his idiot administration the door. I tried to give that idiot the benefit of the doubt and to see if he could do anything positive for our country. Well so far he has done nothing but increase the national debt and make it harder to find work and to make a living. Prices go up but wages dont. I really dont care if anyone disagrees with me. I have done research and looked at what companies are saying and they are saying that they will have to let people go to offset the costs of the requirements of the new health care bill. You can think what you want and support that idiot they call the president also if that is what your heart desires. Canada will be waiting for you and Obama pretty soon.

@jbran I find it funny that this recent bill was proposed by the Republicans in ‘93. And how much did the national debt skyrocket under Reagan and the two Bushes?
As for the requirement to have insurance, did you actually read the bill or just the Fox News synopsis? I mean, these are the same people that claimed that the recent treaty on nuclear reduction will leave our hands tied in the event of a biological attack even though it says right there in black and white that the US reserves the right to amend the treaty in the event of a biological attack!

It’s sad how hype and hysteria mean more than facts and reality. Then again, if it weren’t for that then the iPad would never sell….

jerv if the recent bill was proposed by the Republicans then how come only democrats voted for it. Obama has caused the national debt to go up way more than Reagan or the two Bushes ever did. And Obama has not been in office that long. I dont mind having some kind of health care reform, I just dont like the fact that the government is trying to tell I have to buy a service or pay a fine. I cant afford health insurance. It cost way more than I get in unemployment every month. Our taxes will also go up to pay for this bill regardless of what the Obama administration says. I dont watch fox news, I do my research. Do you want the government telling you that next you have to buy a certain type of item that you cant afford or if you buy it, it will devastate you financially. The requiring of everyone to buy health insurance is absurd. I know the government says they will provide help for people who cant afford to pay for it but they will say oh you work 5 hour a week at Mcdonalds you can afford it. I dont work at Mcdonalds but you see what I mean. They will start telling people that if they have any kind of income that they can afford to pay for the overpriced sky high health insurance. I think they could have came up with a better health care solution.

@jbran
Only democrats voted for the bill because the republicans oppose everything Obama does because they want him to fail, so they can get into power.

And yes, they could have come up with a better solution, like including a public option, or even a fullblown single payer system, but then they would not have gotten a majority to pass it.

”but they will say oh you work 5 hour a week at Mcdonalds you can afford it.”
What makes you think that?

”Obama has caused the national debt”
That is because he inherited an economic crisis that he had to tackle, and the only way to do that is to spend. The last time the ‘sit back and do nothing’ approach that right wingers advocate was tried it resulted in the great depression which finally led to WW2. You would have a point if the economy was ok. But it is not, so you do not.

ragingloli I do have a point. And I do have that point because the economy is bad. I know how the government is and what they will do. The economy was actually starting to recover before Obama took office. After he took office it started going down hill again. Gas prices and food prices went back up after he took office. Unemployment is higher now since he took office because of his spending so much money. What I mean by the you work a 5 hour week at Mcdonald you can afford it comment is, that even though the government says they will help people with the cost of health care if they cant afford it is that they will tell everyone that has a job that they can afford to pay for health insurance. Regardless of if that person makes 10 dollars a month or 10 million dollars a month they will be told they can afford to pay for health insurance. I did not say that Obama caused the national debt. I said he has caused it to go up very significantly. If that kind of crap keeps up China will own the United States and we will have a chinese flag flying and be force to be ruled by communists. Everything Obama is doing is raising the national debt way too much and we are going to pay higher taxes becuase of it. Dont believe the bull he is feeding people saying that only people who make over a certain amount will have to pay higher taxes. That will trickle down to everyone regardless of the amount of money they make. The United States government has gotten way to controlling and it is always one extreme or the other it cant be a semi happy medium with them. It is always democrats this or republicans that. The republicans are not trying to make Obama fail he is failing all on his own. He is taking the United States down with him. He has already been considered the worst president ever.

”The economy was actually starting to recover before Obama took office.”
No it was not recovering. On the contrary. It was still getting worse and it would have resulted in a full blown depression if Obama had not started spending. For example, 2 of the US’ biggest car makers and their suppliers would be history by now, as would be countless jobs, had the Obama admin not granted them a bailout.
”What I mean by the you work a 5 hour week at Mcdonald you can afford it comment is, that even though the government says they will help people with the cost of health care if they cant afford it is that they will tell everyone that has a job that they can afford to pay for health insurance.”
I know what you meant by that. What I wanted to know is why you think that. Because there is no indication that this is true.
”Dont believe the bull he is feeding people saying that only people who make over a certain amount will have to pay higher taxes.”
Why not? So far he has been keeping his word on that.
”The republicans are not trying to make Obama fail he is failing all on his own.”
Oh yes they do. Their actions are very clear.
And Rush Limbaugh, the arch republican himself said: “The dirty little secret… is that every Republican in this country wants Obama to fail, but none of them have the guts to say so; I am willing to say it”

And you probably do not have the slightest idea what communism is.

@jbran The GOP has changed a lot in the last few years. THe Conservatives have lost power, and the party has been dominated by people like Glen Beck and Sarah Palin with a pack mentality.
Also, they are party-loyal to a fault. If Obama or Pelosi says something, it must be wrong. They have held up appointments that wound up later approved 96–0 solely for the reason of obstructing the Democrats!

And I’ve looked at the numbers; you’re wrong. That seems to be a trend with you.

I am no lover of Obama, and I am not a Democrat, but I am for doing whta is best for our nation. What is best is if people pull their heads out of their asses, the GOP spends less time fighting the Democrats and actually starts advocating a conservative balancing counterpoint, and people like you stop spreading hatred and disinformation.

I am not wrong and I am not spreading hatred. Rush Limbaugh is an idiot and I cant stand him. You people dont seem to understand that I dont care what you think. The economy started to make a small comeback before Obama took office. Then it went back down after he took office. Here is the bottom line, the new health care bill needs to be changed or it is going to cost people there jobs. I do know what communism is also. All you have been doing is picking my comments apart because you want to support a president who is making things worse. I am not spreading misinformation and hatred just the facts. I lost my job because of Obama making the economy worse. That is a fact. I also said that when he got elected that I would give the benefit of the doubt. I did and well he is an idiot and I dont like him.

”The economy started to make a small comeback before Obama took office.”
No it did not. You can believe that all you want, it is still not true.

”I do know what communism is also.”
Tell us what you believe communism is and then I will tell you if you are right or wrong.

”a president who is making things worse”
He prevented a second great depression. That is good.
He improved the US’ international image. That is good.
He passed a healthcare reform, that, while it could have been better, will improve the healthcare situation in the US. That is good.
Nuclear arms treaty with Russia. That is good.
You claim that Obama made everything worse, when the fact is that he improved things/prevented them from getting worse.
”I lost my job because of Obama making the economy worse.”
Not true. You would have lost your job either way, because the economy was tanking anyway.

Im done arguing with you about this bull. Your going to tell im wrong either way. So what does it matter.

I lost mine just after Obama was inaugurated… before he had a chance to do anything.

@jbran
No. we will tell you that you are wrong, if you are wrong. Just as we have been doing in this thread until now. If you are right on something, then I will admit that, but so far…

@jbran – But, that’s exactly the point. The bill WILL control how much of your money goes into your already outrageous copays and deductibles that the insurance companies are getting away with charging NOW! To put a rein on their ability to deny ANYONE coverage and to uphold our basic right to pursue happiness and to conserve YOUR and OUR stake in the system. You may not be willing to pay a little extra to achieve this, but I, and many others ARE willing.

The fact that you are unemployed will only work in your favor under the new plan. You will receive subsidies to cover that part of your premium that you cannot afford to pay, or you might get lucky and have to pay absolutely nothing at all until your situation improves. That everyone will be required to join this pool that will only serve to guarantee that premiums and copays remain reasonable for everyone in the pool and that the ridiculous profits, which are currently paying massive executive bonuses, instead get used to guarantee and provide everyone the same excellent level of coverage. This is about controlling the corporations that have callously raised everyone’s premiums to a level of sheer ridiculousness and unfairly denied coverage to those who’ve paid into the system for most of their lives.

Wouldn’t you rather have the money going into a system that benefits YOU instead of continually having your premiums raised and buying a new yacht for some uncaring executive?

As for the rest of the utter bullshit and insidious propaganda to which you’ve succumbed, I can only say this, “You’ve been lied to by whomever you’re getting your information from and you really shouldn’t let so much hate into your life.” If the unnecessary hate doesn’t cause you to have a coronary, your lack of affordable insurance most certainly will.

@jbran – Also… if you don’t care what any of us think… why in hell do you even bother posting here?

@Rufus_T_Firefly In the hopes that there are some people on the fence that may be swayed by fallacy?
In the hopes of rallying the ignorant to swarm us and overcome rationality with sheer numbers?

Y’know, Jerv, it’s funny, we could probably guess and guess and guess all day long and still not really give a fuck. <grin>

Im done arguing with you about this bull. Your going to tell im wrong either way. So what does it matter.

Well, at least he admits it’s bull…