What do you think are the valid points in this video? What points did it miss?
This Vegan Video makes some interesting points. And it is kid friendly cartoon has poo! This is probably not how I would attempt to convince someone to eat vegan or vegetarian, but do you think it makes some good points? Where does it completely miss the mark?
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@Captain_Fantasy True, actually – I’ve found that evidence isn’t what the debate is about.
I can’t watch the video we are restricted here with download. But I will say my friend had a pet pig and he was adorable. Not sure if that was off your track. But I have stopped eating beef,pork, I still eat fish and chicken though.
Humans and pigs are omnivores, meaning they have no preference for either source, but will eat anything.
I’m an herbivore and I still hate this bullshit propaganda.
Why are vegans and vegetarians buying into the argument that something being “natural” has any bearing on whether it’s a good idea or not? Stupid.
7 million years of evolution can’t be wrong.
Intersting, but flawed video. First of all it deals with the concept that humans are not carnivores. Of course we are not. But neither are we herbivores. We are omnivores. It also fails to mention that animals with eyes that face forward (such as humans) on their face (as opposed to the sides) are predators. Also that our bodies require higher amounts of zinc than true vegetarians. Zinc is mostly obtained by meat eating. I, however, get what zinc I need by taking vitamin supplements as I am not a meat eater. But even though I am a vegetarian (for ethical reasons) I’m still not in denial of human evolution. True. Our ancestors were vegetarian. But we are omnivores by nature.
The cartoon pig makes a strong argument, but there’s also contradicting evidence. For example, humans have binocular vision, which is a trait of a carnivore.
As for me, I’m curious about the uniqueness of humans. We’re nearly hairless, walk upright, have opposable thumbs. Though other mamals share some of those characteristics, it seems that we are strangely unique in the animal kingdom.
If that’s true, then why is meat so tasty?
Thankfully there is someone working to capture, kill, and prepare my meat. Teeth are so overrated, take’em out and chew.
I think the argument we a evolutionarily predisposed to be herbivores makes sense. However, I think us eating meat for thousands of years now is bending the curve of human evolution towards being omnivores. But I do agree a primarily vegetarian diet is healthier than a primarily meat diet.
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@wenn I don’t agree with you that @JeanPaulSartre is pushing propaganda, just discussing a question.
2 out of 3 pigs aren’t even smart enough to build a house strong enough to withstand the breath of a wolf.
Statistically speaking, I don’t think they’re smart enough to dictate whether or not humans are omnivorous.
@Just_Justine In terms of animal treatment, Chicken is the worst, I’m afraid. =(
@ragingloli @AstroChuck @buckyboy28 We have to cook meat to eat it of for it to taste good to us or be safe to eat though, which other omnivores don’t. Although this is partially due to how we process our animals.
@nikipedia I agree, that this is not really the best way to look at this, but it is some interesting information. Honestly I’m not expecting any converts here – if the ecological, health, human rights, and animal rights reasons aren’t enough, then this certainly won’t make a dent in anyone’s values.
@HungryGuy Yeah – we are very unique – I think mostly from living “indoors” in some sense for a long time, being able to start a fire to cook and cure food… etc. Interesting observation!
@cockswain Yep and yep!
@Sarcasm LOL4RL – that’s awesome!
I agree humans are omnivores, but, also the less meat in ones diet the healthier for obvious reasons not withstanding the animal and environmental issues.
A lame and weakly emotive video.
If we weren’t supposed to, we would find the taste repellent.
@lloydbird True, but we do find raw meat to be unpalatable.
Is that so, @JeanPaulSartre? I happen to love carpaccio and steak tartare, and I’m sure I can’t be an outlier because both are sold in restaurants all over the Western world, and in Asia there is plenty of raw meat to be eaten as well.
@JeanPaulSartre oh shit now I feel bad. I think I am going to have to go the whole hog, no pun intended. I just believe if you can’t strangle it, shoot it or harpoon it you shouldn’t be eating it. I say you but I am speaking to me. OK start sending the vegetarian recipes please! and I like hot food, I am picky!!
@wenn- “If Neanderthals, Cro-Magnon and the like hadn’t eaten meat you wouldn’t be here because they would have all died off.”
We are Cro-Magnon. Also, there is a growing belief among anthropologists now that Neanderthal man is not a direct ancestor of modern man but a separate species.
@dpworkin If those weren’t treated specially you would get terribly ill.
@dpworkin they say “real meat eaters or enjoyers” like their meat rare or raw. Explains why I like my meat burned. To cinder so I think the switch over will be easier for me. I just never understood potato’s floating in blood.
Ahh, I see, so we are no longer claiming that people don’t like raw meat, we are just saying that it must be prepared. Well, hominy will kill you if it’s not prepared with lye does that invalidate vegetarianism?
@Just_Justine Being vegetarian/vegan is thankfully a lot easier than it probably used to be. Gardein, for example, makes a faux chicken that tastes and has the texture of the real deal.
@dpworkin All I’m saying that is that it takes a higher understanding to eat meat. And there are lots of deadly plants, which we do not eat either. That doesn’t negate eating all plants.
@JeanPaulSartre I somehow doubt we have that in good old S.A. However, I do have a lot of vegetarian friends whom are Hindu perhaps they can muck in and help!! ever tasted my curry potato? it’s to die for
I agree with you. It’s normative for people to enjoy vegetation (I know I do) and to enjoy meat (I know I do.) All decisions past that point are personal. You may have found a way to moralize about the difference, but i have my own belief system and do not feel required to adopt yours, nor do I care to be proselytized. Each to his fancy, said Nancy, as she kissed the cow.
@dpworkin I’m not trying to convert you in this question or via these means. If I was trying to convert you, other terms and points would be made. I just found this interesting, and am interested also in how it falls short of the mark. I also enjoy the taste of meat, but won’t eat it because of the impact.
@JeanPaulSartre re: “raw meat”, Can’t say that I’ve tasted it.
Can I get back to you on that one?
I might find that it tastes good.
@lloydbird Honestly I used to eat sushi, but that is (usually!) treated so it doesn’t have bacteria and such.
@JeanPaulSartre does other meat have bacteria, maybe that was in the video I cant watch?
@Just_Justine All meat can have bacteria – most the cases of “24 hour flu” or the like are actually food poisoning from improperly handled/prepared meat.
A friend’s four year old son asked him, “Daddy, if we’re not supposed ot eat animals, why are they made out of meat?” This is a question with which I am still grappling.
@cockswain the question was quite different when I first answered, it has been edited since.
@AstroChuck Early Modern Humans however similar they are are not identical to present day homo sapiens. I was not debating anthropological terms and definitions.
@janbb heh. I guess the question should be why we don’t eat dogs, as they are similarly made of meat. ;)
true, true, but maybe they actually aren’t made of meat.
Another friend’s kid asked, “Why do we call the bird “chicken” and we also call what we eat “chicken”? Watch out @jeanpaulsartre, kids are tough!
Billions of people eat dogs. It’s a cultural matter.
Billions of Asians eat insects, too. Let’s not be so ethnocentric, shall we?
denis leary once talked about how we don’t eat cute animals, only ugly ones. People say “don’t eat tuna, dolphins get caught in the nets.” But who cares about the tuna. Same with cows and pigs. Very ugly.
@JeanPaulSartre: can you explain how sushi (more properly sashimi) is treated?
EDIT
Freshwater fish are generally avoided in sashimi due to the possibility of parasite infection.
Maritime fish are not, and are not generally treated. certainly, this was the case in Japan, where I ate fish that had been killed and prepared in front of me.
Wikipedia article here.
I have made my own carpaccio, and my own steak tartare. I don’t know what he means by “treatment” unless it’s capers.
@janbb It’s interesting, actually, because generally we call all foul by its alive name, but cows and pigs, etc get new names when they become beef, pork, etc. I’d bet there’s some cultural reason for that that I’m not aware of.
@JeanPaulSartre That makes me wonder, can one safely eat steak tartar etc… if it’s organic? Plus, I wonder if one caught and immediately ate, say, a wild deer, could that meat safely be consumed raw? I know the antibiotics are needed on farms b/c of the horrible conditions, but what are fresh, wild, raw meat? My guess is that is just as safe for us to eat as a wolf, barring some enzyme/immunity a wolf might have that we don’t.
The reason that Cow is called Beef once it is cooked is an artifact of the Norman invasion of 1066, and is a well-known linguistic phenomenon to which there are many exceptions.
As for your other point, I buy my meat locally from farmers whom I know. The cows I eat have been allowed to graze on grass, and have eaten hay, not grain in the winter. I also know the chickens whose eggs I eat, and I have met the pigs whose bacon I enjoy. It’s one of the benefits of living in dairy country, along with the ability to find raw, unpasteurized milk, which tastes a lot better than the shit most people drink.
@cockswain Sadly “organic” is determined mostly by the USDA and means very little. It doesn’t even have to be 100% organic unless it says 100% organic on the product, and even then could still be pumped full of antibiotics, unless it is antibiotic free.. I’m not sure about wild game.
@dpworkin Good. Few have such access. You should be sure they are also slaughtered humanely, and that they are not slaughtered in the same facility as factory meat. Your situation is extremely rare.
There is a growing movement all over the Western world, begun in Italy, called the “Slow Food” movement, which wants to make sure that the conditions I have are ubiquitous, and since it is not just about meat, but about everything raised on farms and orchards, you may wish to look into supporting it.
@cockswain nice! Useful in my case for vegetables.
@JeanPaulSartre: I doubt it – the Japanese generally catch their fish in the wild. It’s kind of difficult to pump a bluefin tuna full of antibiotics when it’s swimming at 40kmh. The same goes for the shrimp of which they are so fond. Perhaps the only exception might be the salmon, but I have no data to support that hypothesis. Nor, I suspect, do you.
@the100thmonkey True, although I’m not sure we’re eating fish from Japan, but I don’t know.
If everyone could disregard this question I would personally appreciate it – I had no intention of firing up such animosity. This is not the way in which I would attempt to convey useful information about why I am a vegan or why I hope others will consider it. Please await a future well thought out question from Simone that will tactfully address the topic.
Regards, Alex/JPS
@JeanPaulSartre – You can’t close Pandora’s box. You can’t put the djinn back in the bottle. You can’t put the cat back in the bag,
You can’t put the meta back in the metaphor.
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