Should criminals be kept with criminals of their own sort?

I think that the dynamics of criminal behaviour begin in early childhood for most criminals. Not the ones who are the psychopaths, and sociopaths. The ones who have the deck stacked against them by being abused and neglected. I think that simply locking them up for a period of time under extreme survival conditions does nothing to make them better people and when they are released we literally “turn them loose” on society. They have minimal job skills and limited options to try and obtain honest work. I think that until the issues that cause their “criminal” behaviour are addressed in therapy with some dedicated professionals, they will continue their behaviour and probably even escalate said behaviour,.

@Trillian On top of that, when the convict is released back into society, the allegedly good decent folks do everything in their power to keep him from getting a good job and thus actually force him/her to resort to crime to earn their keep..

Criminals should be educated. Rapists are beyond criminal. They are abusers. Off with their heads, both of them, castration and lobotomy. Then set them free with a hot branded R on their foreheads.

Does anyone ever refer to the Constitution any more when imagining draconian punishments for other people? Does anyone realize that breaches in the Bill of Rights threaten him or herself, too?

Not everyone here is from America dpworkin.

Touche @fiona. Sorry.

@fiona
And America is not the only country that has Fundamental Rights.

Obviously rebbel, but my question would involve changing those fundamental rights to have a more effective method of punishment.

@fiona
Ah, i see.

I see my words fell on deaf ears. Punishment is not the entire answer here. Especially if you look at cognitive development in the brain. The adolescent engages in risk taking behaviour because of the potential thrill. The reward of the behaviour outweighs the risk of punishment. This changes as the brain develops, but for many, the brain does not develop beyond this stage, so you have adults acting like adolescents for very solid psychological reasons. Do you not see that addressing the underlying issues and finding a way to develop the brain into that of a mature adult is much more sensible? This way you at some point have productive, contributing members of society rather than just leeches and menaces. Why are you so stuck on “punishment”?

Trillian ‘punishment’ is the issue. I see your point, but that’s just not answering my question. Of course ideally we could teach the criminal love and empathy at a young age, and I’m sure that would do wonders for the state of things. But I’m asking what to do with an already corrupted mind.

What has one hundred metre distance to with anything? Are you supposing that he couldn’t travel if he decided to rape again, that he would have to head for the nearest teenage girl? Logically, the girls in that school would probably be safer from him than almost anyone else. Unless the man is a complete fool, the last thing he would do is attack someone in a close proximity to his residence.

I do tend to feel that people who commit sex crimes are “broken” and can’t be mended, but they can be taught – by punishment and fear of further punishment – to make an attempt to control their instincts. Many do re-offend, but as many also go one to lead an exemplary life they have to be given a chance.

What you need to do with this corrupted mind is heal it. It needs to know that what it did was wrong. Right now, it doesn’t. It feels rage against females for something that happened to it long ago. Probably a female care provider sexually abused it. rape is about power. As a child, it was powerless against something horrific enough to shatter the fragile cocoon of defenses it had and that wrong has never been righted. Until that mind is healed, it can never be truly penitent. Punishment without contrition is useless. He will go out and do it again, because he still feels that helpless rage.

First of all our penal system will never truly rehabilitate anyone, and especially those with serious longstanding mental health issues.

Sooo, IMO, the root cause is the same, therefore all criminals are ‘together’ already, on a fundemental wavelength of dysfunction.

Prison code of ‘ethics’ is just more dysfunction dysfunctioning. lol

Obviously a non-violent offender should not be housed with certifiable psycho’s..the rest, is just like a bag of candy, different flavors, same sugar. haha

And this is why you don’t rule the world~

Its easy to just assume that everyone convicted is obviously guilty…..but this isnt always the case. Would it really be fair to lock them all up together, so that we don’t have to deal with them? I don’t think so….besides, its not the convicted ones im worried about, its the ones that haven’t been caught yet….

DarkScribe – Give them the chance to live an exemplory life, but also the chance to rape/murder etc again.
cheebdragon. I know your affraid of ‘the ones who haven’t been cought yet’, but you do realise we are letting the ones who have been cought back onto the streets – in your neighbourhood, in your building, when they often commit the very same crime again. And we rearly know 100% whether they are guilty or not, but does this mean we should let tham all run free….that would be anarchy.

@fiona ….that would be anarchy.

Anarchy is freedom from law – locking them up for life would be anarchy.

There is no reform or cure for serial rapists or molesters so the American constitution that protects their rights is good and fine but not for those they would like to prey upon. Murder is kind of a gray area but for the others, they can offer nothing to society other than threat and I’m in the minority of people who don’t feel like contributing to their support and risk with my tax dollars. I’d much rather they go to execution and whatever monies that would’ve been filtered to their life be re routed to the victims or their families.

@Neizvestnaya And what about the many who were and are being falsely convicted of crimes they didn’t commit?

@dpworkin
Therein lies the rub, I only like my ideas for those who are guilty “without a doubt”. It’s a good thing people like me aren’t given a lot of social influence or connections within prison systems.

@fiona who said they are running free? Do you see any truely thriving sex offenders? how many of them are CEO’s, Doctors, or even College graduates?
Im not saying it isn’t fucked up that a rapist can live across the street from a school, I have a kid so i know what its like to worry about their safety. But your idea of locking all of them up “forever” is just foolish and inhumane.

There’s no all or nothing solution when it comes to tackling criminal behaviour. Sexual abuse is another issue altogether.
As has been mentioned already, the root cause needs to be addressed before any real change/reform is going to take place. Good, intensive therapy is a start. If the government invested in this properly, perhaps we’d see a difference in the rate of repeat offences.
Sticking a group of “criminals” together is the most farcical idea imaginable. It leaves hope for neither them, nor any potential victims of crime.

I’m not talking about locking them up in some little jail. I’m saying that maybe, just maybe, and it is up for discussion here now, that they should be put somewhere to live with people of their own kind. There could be shops, basketball courts, the works. I don’t see how we can let them out at the risk of our own citizens – that society was largely set up to protect- to give them another chance that is very much debatable whether or not they are deserving of. Their punishment is simply being subjected to people of the same mindset as themselves. And do you realy think they sould be free to reproduce!?

When criminals associate they teach one another techniques and skills. That’s what happens. That would seem to be retrograde to what you seem to wish to accomplish.

But dpworkin, they wouldn’t be free to impliment these new techniques. Not on us anyway.

You can see into the future? Anything can happen. People have escaped from exile islands.

@fiona It’s hard to take this seriously. Don’t you think you’re writing off people who are capable of change with the right supports in place? It seems you want to create a Stepford society? Life is life. Criminal activity is a part of this. Another person’s behaviour is completely out of your, my, etc hands.
Apart from that, there’s the other issue – your plan would create absolute havoc within society.
I for one am glad I’ve never resorted to crime(out of necessity, or otherwise – note I see sexual abuse and crime as two separate issues) as I’d have little hope of turning my life around with such archaic attitudes floating about

At least here in America rapists and molesters are treated fairly harsh and have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives and this information is public and easily had. Go here to see where these creeps live. I got 18 in my tiny town. http://www.sexoffender.com/state.html#Illinois
That being said these creeps have paid their dues according to our laws and need not be further punished by Draconian measures.

@fiona Who gets to pay for these rapist communities? Wouldn’t the money be better spent on true rehabilitation that would eventually return productive members of society to that society from which they’ve taken and can now possibly give a little back?

You mean like a ghetto? And here I thought the western world moved passed this 65 years ago.

@fiona
It’s people like you who have us living with so many stupid rules and regulations that it is hard to go to the store without breaking a law.
I’m sure you are perfect and do no wrong, but many of the rest of us are human and tend to err now and then.

As for these rapists you seem to fear so much, perhaps if those locked away were actually guilty of the crimes with which they have been accused, there might actually be some sense to your suggestion.
But it seems like there are just as many innocent people in prison as there are those guilty of the crimes with which they were accused.
So putting everyone convicted of a similar crime in the same locale is just as senseless and barbaric as the crimes committed which have you so fearful, judgmental and barbaric in how you wish to treat the accused.
I hope to god you never attain a position of authority in my lifetime.

@Cruiser
Paid their dues? There is no cure and no reform for serial rapists and molesters, no one is ever safe for long, why chance them harming the innocent just so we can say we protect their rights?

You’re being very confrontational with me! I just wanted to have a discusion about this. Having found the article I read quite unsettling, I felt that there must be a better way of dealing with these people. This is a very reasonable suggestion, and it’s not a matter of petty laws, like where to park while you go to the shop davidbetterman.

@Neizvestnaya
So just murder execute them and be done with it?

@fiona Perhaps you should do a few months in jail or prison before suggesting how to deal with alleged criminals.

@davidbetterman
For confirmed serial rapists and molesters, yes.

@Neizvestnaya How do you confirm this?

For some criminals, there’s enough evidence beyond mystery DNA. I don’t think anyone has doubts about Ted Bundy or the cannibal child molester guy from back east who got shanked once he went to prison?

Sure that is a problem no matter what the system of punishment. If we consider that the person convicted isn’t necessarily guilty we’ll end up with a punishment that isn’t great enough for the guilty. When you think about it…It isn’t ideal but it is nessecary to assume the guilt of those convicted.

I have an affinity for my body and do not want it violated in any way. The same thing goes for my two little girls. If the only answer was some sort of commune, then I am perfectly okay with that. We really need to make castration, chemical or otherwise, an acceptable solution. That way, these fine folks can work at any job, or live, anywhere they please. It makes no sense to work our asses off not to step on the criminal’s rights while the rest of the communities suffer. My pity for these folks runs on a very short leash.

@phillis
Perhaps your leash would lengthen were you falsely accused of a horrendous crime, convicted and sentenced to life with criminally insane assholes…

Those rights you speak of are what helps prevent such a travesty from occurring to innocent people.

@Davidbetterman We now have DNA testing that has set a lot of falsely accused people free (even if it is slow as hell), and continues to exonerate the falsely accused. I’m all for that! But, we aren’t talking about false imprisonment. Were talking about those who ARE guilty of the crimes, and what to do about having them in our midst. I didn’t think my castration solution would have a “Hang em all and let God sort em out” ring to it. Sorry if it sounded that way. Better that, than having them with no job for the rest of thier lives.

I think that they should be isolated from society. If they’re close to an all girls school, then you better check the locks on the doors. But if he’s put with all other serial killers, then they can band together and manage to break free and kill us all! So, let’s just never keep serial or ex- serial killers near or close to each other/ children

@fiona their children don’t have to become what they are – a lot of these behaviours are socialized or a result of neglect – criminals (that are allowed to be criminals like politicians big businesspeople reproduce every day)

Australia started as an exile prison for criminals.

WHY IS A SERIAL RAPIST NOT IN JAIL?

@Exhausted So did the USA….