Are you in favor of having a Confederate History month?

As a Southerner, born and bred, in no way do I want to see a Confederate History Month.

There is so much more about the South to celebrate than the Civil bloody War and the South’s position in it. What about the pioneers? What about famous civil rights leaders? What about our technology?

Focusing on the confederacy only continues the view, both inside and out of the South, that we still define ourselves by a fucking war that happened over one hundred years ago. Instead we should celebrate our entire history and not just one part of it. Should the confederacy be part of that teaching? Yes, because we can’t forget the long-reaching ramifications, yet can’t we move beyond this pinhole camera focus to encompass the broader picture?

There are many people in the South who are attached to Confederate history. There was a romance to the Civil War even though it was one of the bloodiest conflicts in history.

I did not see why the governor had to issue a proclamation (the previous two governors had not), and when he did why he omitted the issue of slavery.

There is a statue in downtown Alexandria honoring the Civil War dead from the confederacy.

Oh for the love of Christ you cannot be serious

No. There’s no Union history month; there shouldn’t be a Confederate history month.

@holden What are you referring to when you say you cannot be serious?

No. It’s incredible to me that some people are still trying to keep that wound open after so much time has passed. The timing is also highly questionable, given that the divide between north and south is as great as it’s been at any time since Reconstruction, except for the 1960s.

States’ rights issues are also rearing their ugly, anachronistic heads again. The 14th Amendment effectively ended States’ rights, but we have a passel of Republican AGs using that ruse as another way to drive a wedge between conservatives and everybody else. Sometimes I think they want another civil war. Maybe that’s what it’s all about.

I should qualify my original statement. I don’t think there should be a Confederate history month even if, for some reason, there was a Union history month. The war ended a long time ago, and everyone needs to move on.

Yes, although something more inclusive that looks at the Union as well, perhaps a Civil War month?

To the folks that take issue to history about the Confederacy taught, history is history and the Confederacy is part of it. An often maligned part of it, although parts were certainly justified in being maligned. Slavery was evil, but its history NEEDS to be taught. Learning what the founders of the Confederacy thought about state’s rights couldn’t be a bad thing, especially in today’s climate though.

Besides, those doomed to repeat history are those who do not learn it- the good AND the bad. It is scary what students do not know about history nowadays.

It always makes me chuckle when white people feel left out.

@rahm_sahriv But, I think of these months as a way to increase awareness and build support. Like we have Black History Month, Breast Cancer Month, Heart Disease, etc. I don’t see how the war fits into that category. Important to learn about, but not something to dredge up like it is a celebration or a cause. At least that is how I see it. Maybe someone will pursuade me otherwise.

@marinelife I am incredulous that a Confederate History Month was proposed. By a governor. A Third Reich Remembrance Day would seem more appropriate.

I don’t really see the need for a Civil War History month. It was covered pretty extensively in my public school. I’d prefer more attention given to recent wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

The fact that McDonell left out the part about slavery in the original suggestion just shows how clueless and morally bankrupt this movement is.

Good god, no. I’ve met many of the men who do the reenactments every year, and to a man they are always a bunch of bigoted rednecks. As far as I can see, “Sons of Confederate Veterans” is just a euphemism for something far more dark and sinister.

I think what really irks me about this is that it would be akin to having a white history month. When you live down here every month feels like Confederacy Month.

Very funny article on this from Gail Collins a few days ago. Here’s the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/opinion/08collins.html

reference above

If you read about Gov. McDonnel (sigh), you can better understand it:

“The ACLU of Virginia accused Gov. Bob McDonnell of reinstating a “literacy test” in Virginia when he decided to add another step for nonviolent felons to have their voting rights restored.” Washington Post

“Gay and lesbian state workers in Virginia are no longer specifically protected against discrimination, thanks to a little-noticed change made by new Gov. Bob McDonnell.” Talking Points Memo

Why is it okay to have a Black History month, and not a Confederate? The Confederacy was not for slavery, they just wanted their rights. They wanted to be left alone. I truly question the way slavery is depicted. How do we know what truly happened? Back in those days there was no wellfare, no foodstamps, nothing. You had to work to survive. Yes, there may have been “evil” slave owners, but not all were that way.If you want to stop racism, then quit guilt tripping white people. The “Slavery” card has been played too much. I am sick and tired of hearing people say: “I was kept in chains, my family suffered.” No more of that should be heard. Blacks have had the same chances at success as whites. The only ones keeeping them down…are themselves. Not the white people.

There shouldn’t be an anything month.

Edit: Except for pancakes, chocolate, and other yummy foods. But leave the ___ history months out.

@ducky_dnl I think you could benefit from reading about white privilege here

@gemiwing I’m not even going to take my time reading that.

That link says: “1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.” So, it’s wrong for whites to want to hang out with people of their own race? Let me guess… They are “racist.” Now if a bunch a black people want to hang out with each other it’s okay? The reasons whites mostly hang with whites is because they connect with each other. There is a difference in culture between whites and blacks. Sorry to say! I have a best friend who is black. So, anyone who thinks I’m racist…Can stick it where the sun don’t shine.

@ducky_dnl I don’t know you enough to make such a strong insult. Yet, it’s interesting to me that you fail to acknowledge that you have rights/gifts/opportunities that people of color don’t automatically get. You feel how you feel I suppose.

The only reason this is a big deal is because the ACLU chose to make it one. If they would not have made a national issue of it, it would have come and gone with no one noticing.

I don’t think a Confederate history month would be a bad thing. It is what you make of it.

I used to room with a black man in college. He was proud of the fact that his great great grandaddy was a decorated veteran of the Confederate States of Amercia.

@gemiwing what don’t people of color get? They are in a far better boat than my family. While my family is counting change at the store, “people of color” are using food stamp cards, While my family is having a tough time keeping are house together, “people of color’ are buying expensive homes. While my family is driving clunker cars, “people of color” are driving hummers, cadillacs, etc. What have they be deprived of?

@ducky_dnl, they wanted their rights… to own slaves.

If you think slavery was a-okay, as you apparently do—the purchase of human beings as chattle, being able to whip another human being for disobedience, being able to separate a human being’s children from her for no reason, the constant rape (why do you think black Americans look the way they do)—then I can see why this wouldn’t bother you.

It’s a shame that slavery is illegal, actually, because I’d pay good money to have you enslaved and see how you’d feel after a year. Or 30 years.

@ducky_dnl While I’d love to debate this, I have a firm feeling that neither one of us would see anything different at the end of the day. You see what you see and I’ll see what I see. I’m not going to derail this question any further than I already have.

@ducky_dnl, you do understand that they don’t give food stamps out to people on the basis of skin color, yes?

Perhaps your family qualifies? Have they checked into this?

@WestRiverrat, what a delightful and perhaps even true anecdote.

I guess you think this somehow excuses the institutional racism and brutality of southern slavery? Did your roommate think this?

@Qingu How do you know slavery happend that way? Were you alive back then? We can’t speak on what we don’t know happened or not. If I was where you lived and said you raped me. No one was around and I took it to a judge. The judge would believe me, even though you might be innocent. You could appeal fifty times to the judge claiming your innocence, but all I would have to do is cry, rant and rave. They would believe me. It’s the same concept. Also, when I was little my family was on food stamps. You know what my mom did? She quit food stamps, worked three job and paid them back. Now why can’t other people on food stamps do the same? If your well enough to have sex, walk a grocery store, and drive around in a nice car… then you are well enough to get off your lazy ass and get a job.

I meant “you” as in general.

@ducky_dnl, the 1800’s weren’t ancient history. We have numerous records. What exactly are you denying?

Are you seriously arguing that black slave women consented to sex with their masters? How could a slave consent?

Or are you denying that white masters ever had sex with black slaves?

If you were on food stamps when you were little, then I’m surprised you didn’t know they don’t just give them out to black people. I also seriously doubt your mother “paid them back.”

It’s probably true that in some areas, more black people are given food stamps than whites, but that’s just the demographic. I live near Baltimore (and worked in the city for a number of years). There are far more poor black families here than there are in other parts of the country and there’s always a black person in my grocery store paying with a food stamp card. Occasionally a white one, too, but it’s mostly black. Now, if you lived where my buddy does in Kentucky, you’d have to say “While my family is counting change at the store, “white folks” are using food stamp cards.” It’s just all in the demographics.

Uh, the reason more blacks get food stamps is because more blacks are poor.

The reason more blacks are poor is because there is this concept called a poverty cycle that tends to affect populations that, for example, were once enslaved and deprived of property.

@Qingu Also, I have medical problems, but guess what! I get up every day for work, put on a smile, tell myself “today is a damn good day” and go a bus tables for $7.50 an hour, just to help my family with bills.

No, I mean how do you know the rape even happened to begin with? It’s word against word.

Why would we celebrate a low point in our country’s history?
The confederacy almost destroyed the nation.

More Americans died in this war than any other. There were brothers fighting their own brothers. Not glorious.

We know that black slaves were raped by whites because their descendants have white genes.

How do you know a black slave didn’t rape a white woman?

Wow this one went downhill fast.

@ducky_dnl I don’t know what you’re arguing. Are you saying that because some people have black skin, they don’t get up and go to work, have no ambition, and suck the life out of society? This has nothing to do with anything else but the color of the skin? Because, you should visit my honky little hometown to see some truly lazy, worthless white fuckers.

Because, again, this isn’t ancient history. We have many records of half-white babies coming out of black slaves’ vaginas.

@Captain_Fantasy, I’m trying to be patient here but I don’t know how much longer I can hold out. :(

@Qingu I love making you mad. :P

@Ubersiren No, I’m saying why can’t any people on welfare do that? It doesn’t matter if you’re white, black, asian or whatever… people need to stop rewarding laziness and start rewarding people that actually take care of the lazy fucks that don’t work.

@Qingu Am I doing a good job?

I don’t understand what food stamps and your bitching about rewarding laziness has to do with Confederate History Month.

Why don’t we try to stay on the topic of “was slavery actually bad.” So in your opinion, African Americans’ white ancestry (most blacks have some) comes from black slaves raping white women moreso than white masters raping black slaves—is this a correct summary of your viewpoint?

[Mod Says:] Flame off folks.

Lets get back to the topic which is “Are you in favor of having a Confederate History month?”

Please refrain from personal attacks and flaming. Please remain on the topic.
All off topic or personal remarks will be removed.

Thanks!

To answer the question,it sounds like it would probably not be the best idea,likely to cause civil unrest for one thing.

@ducky_dnl If you feel history cannot really be known, then we can’t know about honoring the confederacy I guess? You can’t have it both ways. @Qingu is right, two topics are being confused. One is do you want to celebrate Confederacy, or do you want to talk about what pisses you off about your perception of black people in present times? I, like you, really am getting tired of excuses of the past, although I have sympathy for it. And, I agree with what someone said above about it really being a socio-economic problem more than a race issue. You can start a thread about it if you want. It has been discussed on fluther before. The way I see it, if you can look at some black people and maybe say they are “using the system” but then turn around as a white person and want to hold onto the old south, how the hell is that any different? Keeping the idea of the old south alive is not going to inspire black people, just scare the shit out of them.

How would it be any different than celebrating Nazi Germany in Germany? I’m sure there were people in the German army who were good people who loved Germany, many might not have realized all that was going on at first. Within their own families they might find honor and feel their relatives made sacrifices, but as a national issue I don’t think the government or citizenry would find it acceptable to make a Nazi month. German history month maybe, but not Nazi month. Maybe you don’t see the two as analagous?

What exactly is it about the Confederacy that you feel should be celebrated? Or, maybe explain to me what it represents to you?

@marinelife Wow. I did not know all of that info. Thanks.

i too recently heard about this. i don’t think it is necessary. why do they need a history month? we learn all about US history in school already….including the confederates/confederacy movement.

the point of “months” designated to certain groups is because their history has traditionally been ignored in school history (i.e. black history, women’s history, ect.)

I’ve never really been a fan of the ”[insert random thing here] History Month” thing in general; if you’re interested in the topic there are numerous texts, articles, and references available to learn just about all you could care to.

All of it reminds me of Valentine’s Day, why do I need a day (or in this case a month) devoted to something that I should be aware of and, to one extent or another, active in all year round?

Also, so far as I’ve seen, none of these months really serve to raise awareness of or actually accomplish much beyond the community who is already interested. The people who care tune in, the people who don’t, well… don’t.

The state history month idea you mentioned sounds interesting though. I think tying it in with a community pride thing where you get people out and about fixing up their areas would be something worthwhile.