(NSFW Language) Are the some of the oldest words in the English language really acronyms?

At the risk of having people jump down my throat for stating the following !
Many Italian Americans can be quite racists concerning immigrants/foreigners but the racial slur associated with them “WOP” is derived from the fact that most Italian immigrants arriving at Ellis Island NY circa 1800’s did not have documents therefore most of them were given shirts with the initials W.O.P (With-Out-Papers) Thereafter the term was associated with Italians and was used as an insult to remind them of their once illegal status !

I can’t say that I am too sure, but seeing as many of the words we use today are derived from other languages, anything is possible. But I have also heard that Fuck. stands for “Fornicate under consent of king”

I had always heard that it was Fornication Under Consent of the King….but then I read Snopes..

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/fuck.asp

I’d have to ask my Norwegian or Icelandic friends about the old Scandinavian language references, because the words in use now don’t sound like that, it sounds more plausible than an acronym.

Im with @cazzie. I heard it was that too. And shit was Store High In Transit.

No, not really.

The word shit has a couple possibilities: it may be from the Old English scite, which means ‘dung’ or from the similar scitte, meaning ‘diarrhea’. No acronym involved.

Regarding fuck, the OED suggests this: ‘Explanations as an acronym are often suggested, but are obviously much later rationalizations.’

It further explains some possible relatives of the word in other languages:

‘Probably cognate with Dutch fokken to mock (15th cent.), to strike (1591), to fool, gull (1623), to beget children (1637), to have sexual intercourse with (1657), to grow, cultivate (1772), Norwegian regional fukka to copulate, Swedish regional fokka to copulate (compare Swedish regional fock penis), further etymology uncertain: perhaps < an Indo-European root meaning ‘to strike’ also shown by classical Latin pugnus fist (see PUGNACIOUS adj.). Perhaps compare Old Icelandic fjúka to be driven on, tossed by the wind, feykja to blow, drive away, Middle High German fochen to hiss, to blow. Perhaps compare also Middle High German ficken to rub, early modern German ficken to rub, itch, scratch, German ficken to have sexual intercourse with (1558), German regional ficken to rub, to make short fast movements, to hit with rods, although the exact nature of any relationship is unclear.’

So yeah, no.

Heh…. fun as it would be, I’m sorry to say no. To find the origins of these words you have to go back to 1066. When the Normans invaded England they supplanted Norman society onto the Anglo-Saxon inhabitants, they also made French the official language in court. Words like fuck, & shit are derived from the old Anglo-Saxon. They got their status as swear words as Anglo-Saxon English was considered far more crude than the newer Norman English, which was heavily influenced by French. This also goes someway to explaining why English has so many different terms for these things.

Yeah cunt derives from Hitler I believe.

@ucme Err… how?

“From Middle English cunte from Old English *cunte from West Proto-Germanic *kunte < Proto-Germanic *kunton. Cognate with Frisian kunte, dialectal Swedish kunta, dialectal Danish kunte, Dutch kont (“arse”) and Icelandic kunta. A relationship to Latin cunnus has not been conclusively shown.”

@grumpyfish Err… the correlation between the two is that Hitler was clearly a cunt, that’s all.

@ucme GA!

. But I have also heard that Fuck. stands for “Fornicate under consent of king”

Amazing – schoolboy nonsense that I didn’t think anyone took seriously.

It is usually accepted as relating common criminal charge dating to Shakespearean times: “For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.”

No King ever gave or was required to give permission for fornication. Those claiming otherwise are full of nonsense. Think about it, if an “invading King had to give permission – why would he use an English phrase?

@DarkScribe “Those claiming otherwise are full of (ship high in transit)”~

@DarkScribe and others: all acronymic explanations for such words are spurious. Acronyms themselves are a late phenomenon. The closest we get is that there was, indeed a Thomas Crapper.

@dpworkin all acronymic explanations for such words are spurious.

Spurious or not, this particular “explanation” for the word “fuck” pre-dates the common use of acronyms. Even William Strunk Jr mentioned it a paper on slang just before the First World War. He copped some serious flack for even discussing it – it was usually expurgated from most dictionaries. The only thing supporting this explanation is that such a charge did exist, it even existed when the first NSW penal colony was set up, at that time they were primarily relying on British law.

It is a canard. Jessie Shiedlower, a philologist with the Oxford English dictionary has debunked that silly tale for good in his book, The F Word. Also see Snopes.com for a definitive debunking. You are misinformed.

@dpworkin You are misinformed.

As no one can be completely sure – and as I don’t state that it is certain, just that of the options it seems the most plausible to me – no one is misinformed. One thing that I am positive about is that it was a criminal charge. We have had people here who were charged and found guilty – an executed for it. It was regarded as a capital crime

You are misinformed, but if you want to keep saying things on a public forum that are well-known to be palpably untrue, I suppose it’s your business. Be my guest. Personally, I would be embarrassed, but you seem to have dealt with that somehow.

@dpworkin well-known to be palpably untrue

Palpably? Gee that’s scary. Palpable.

I am not making a definitive statement one way or another, just saying what, of the choices, seems most likely to me. You are the only one claiming finite knowledge. Even Strunk didn’t claim to be certain – just that is seemed likely.

Did you eat something that disagreed with you? You seem “palpably” irritable today.

I know more than you do.

@dpworkin I know more than you do.

Oh – that explains it. I can’t argue with that – I don’t know how much I know.

If Garfield is right, one day both of us will reach total capacity and possibly our heads will explode. (Garfield is wise – he should be treated with respect…)

I have a certificate to prove it.

@dpworkin have a certificate to prove it.

That’s impressive. (Hang on I need to find a mirror – I am not sure if I still know how to do “impressed”. It has been a while…)

Unfortunately the bullet-proof glass behind which it is framed makes it difficult to photograph.

@dpworkin Unfortunately the bullet-proof glass behind which it is framed makes it difficult to photograph.

Oh. That was going to be my next question. You have answered it already – you really must know more than I. A sketch artist maybe?

[Mod Says:] Hey folks- please stick to the topic which is “Are the some of the oldest words in the English language really acronyms?”

Off topic or personal quips will be removed.

Thanks!

‘Fokk’, in Norwegian, is a kind of snowfall that comes down during a heavy wind and the snow blows sideways… I know that when I see this snow coming down and I need to go out.. I always say…. Awww…. FOKK!