Social Question

Kraigmo's avatar

We caught a customer stealing on our surveillance system (after he left). What's a creative way to handle him when he comes back that does not require law enforcement?

Asked by Kraigmo (9223points) April 21st, 2010

A pair of customers yesterday pointed out a regular customer of ours and whispered that he was stealing. We let him buy his stuff and let him leave, then when we had the chance, we reviewed the surveillance videos, and sure enough there’s clear proof he pocketed about $80 worth of stuff.

We know his name, address (or old address) and phone number. We have video of him stealing. We do not want to get the Law involved.

I’d love to post the surveillance video on Youtube, but that would violate certain laws due to the privacy issue of other customers in it.

Any creative ideas for handling this guy when he comes back that does not involve calling authorities and does not involve anything illegal or overly threatening? Some way to shame or embarrass him (before we let him know he’s banned for life)?

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36 Answers

Sophief's avatar

Why don’t you want to involve the law?

Kraigmo's avatar

@Sophief , We would only call the Law if it was a crime against person, or a more major property crime. Little things like this, we don’t want the trouble of wasting our city’s resources. It’s easier to ban the guy. Why punish ourselves, we’re already a victim once.

Sophief's avatar

Fair enough. What did he take?

jrpowell's avatar

post his picture near the register.

shpadoinkle_sue's avatar

I’d put up a good sized picture on a board for ALL to see that this guy is a bad man. Be as professional about it as you can be, because you’re still a business and you don’t want to send out a message of immaturity to new customers. But, I like your idea of keeping it internal. Very smart.

Another could be that if he comes back, make a little stink that he’s no longer welcome.

zophu's avatar

Mess with this head. Have everyone just stare at him when he comes into the store, and not respond to anything he says. Twilight Zone shit.

shpadoinkle_sue's avatar

Charge him for the stuff he stole, if you know what the items were, and send him a bill.

j0ey's avatar

I think next time he comes in, treat him like you always have, then when he gets to the register, just call him on it…..politely inform him that you are aware of his thieving, and that you are sorry but you are going to have to ban him from the store, let him know you are disappointed, and leave it at that. Have a picture from the surveillance tape just encase he denies stealing. Tell him that you are not calling the police, but you will if he steps foot in your store again. End by saying that you wish him the best and hope karma doesn’t bite him in the ass too hard.

I think this would make him feel the worst…..Its never feels nice when you wrong someone and they are gracious/fair in response.

meagan's avatar

Get the law involved. If you try to publicly humiliate him, I hope he sues the hell out of you, whether or not he stole $80 from your store.
Also, I’m sure the company you work for won’t be happy about you using the surveillance tapes to your own sick personal use. You aren’t batman. Let the authorities do their job. You do your own.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

zophu's avatar

@meagan

He didn’t kill a dude and he doesn’t run a drug ring or terrorist group. A competent citizen can deal with a petty shoplifter. To compare that to vigilantism is ridiculous.

JeffVader's avatar

How about getting a bunch of wanted posters printed, using the pics from your surveillance & posting them all along the route from his house to your shop. Name & shame!

Kraigmo's avatar

@meagan , running to Mommy and Daddy Law isn’t always the least chaotic choice one can make when faced with this type of situation. Sometimes its the best choice, and sometimes not. And what “sick personal use” are you talking about? These tapes were made in the regular shopping area. We don’t have dressing rooms or anything like that. So I don’t know what you’re thinking, but I assume it’s that.

LuckyGuy's avatar

How about printing a few of the more incriminating frames and either handing him a bill the next time he comes in or mailing it to him?

“I’m so glad you came back, George. We noticed you forgot to pay for the video game last week. Would you like me to add it to your charge card now or should I bill you later?”

shpadoinkle_sue's avatar

I this at my last job.

All jokes aside, though, he can be dealt with internally next time he comes in your store.

ucme's avatar

Stare at him with one hand on your hip & with the other wag your finger as you would a scolded child, tongue firmly embedded in cheek.Then give him an iou note for $80 which he must sign & pay within 24hrs or you’ll send the boys round,with a blow torch & a pair of pliers,job done.

meagan's avatar

@Kraigmo It isn’t your job to “shame or embarrass him”.

Cruiser's avatar

You say “We” in your question….what does the other store employee think you should do? Has the owner been notified of this event? I think to do anything other than intiated an arrest would leave you open to trouble if you attempt to extract other types of retribution other than simple return of the goods or to ask that person to pay for the taken item(s)

zophu's avatar

@meagan It’s the community’s job to use shame and embarrassment where necessary. Theft is something to be ashamed of. It’s not like he’s going to tattoo his forehead or something. Don’t worry so much about the shoplifter. He says he’s a regular customer, they probably want him to keep shopping there, but just know that he’s being watched.

meagan's avatar

@zophu I’ve answered the question. I’m not interested in discussing this with you.

theichibun's avatar

Get the law involved. Even if they don’t do anything, it starts a record. $80 might not seem like a lot of stuff to you. But if he does it every month that $960. Would that be a big deal to you? The time frame doesn’t really matter her.

Zen_Again's avatar

Show him the tape in a private room.

Divalicious's avatar

Do you still have older surveillance tapes of this person’s shopping? Maybe they’ve been doing this all along. Even one other time at $80 would add up to a felony (in Illinois, anyway). You’re doing them a favor by keeping the law out of it. This person has probably stolen numerous times from your store and many others. Don’t be an enabler.

anartist's avatar

Get a staff person who isn’t really your store detective to follow the customer around next time he shops very obviously with the store detective’s handcuffs dangling out of a back pocket. Be obvious and embarrassing and if customer complains, invite him back to the office to view the tape [save it!].

aprilsimnel's avatar

Shame him publicly. Then ban him from your shop!

filmfann's avatar

Email him the video clip. Tell him to fork over the $80, or else it gets posted online.

Sophief's avatar

Whatever it was he stole, next time he comes in, wait till there is plenty of people around and ask him if he would like anymore.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

So wait, you’re a business who doesn’t prosecute shoplifters?
You need to fix that or you might as well start giving away your merch for free.

Buttonstc's avatar

I like worried guy’s response the best. There is always the chance that he will be embarassed enough to pay the $80 and apologize and then you’re ahead $80.

You can then decide whether to ban him or not.

When you do confront him, perhaps have a couple of screen shots printed out so he knows you’re not bluffing.

john65pennington's avatar

First of all, you did yourself and your store an injustice by not stopping this person and calling the police. here is why: this person will do this again at your store or elsewhere or he may have outstanding warrants for more serious crimes. i would do this. call the police and ask an officer to check this person for outstanding warrants. if you know his name, the officer can check his computer. if warrants are not outstanding, i would call this person into your store and have the video tape ready to show him. once he views the tape, then make him sign a piece of paper agreeing to be banned from your store for at least a year. date and sign….both parties. give him a copy.

Trillian's avatar

This is not a black and white issue. I disagree with @meagan on the grounds that he wasn’t ashamed to steal in the first place. He must be aware that stores use surveillance, so any repercussions brought about by his actions and decision to break the law and violate the trust of the store are squarely on his own shoulders. I just don’t know what the legalities are here.
I’d certainly want him banned from the store at the very least. I also think that confrontation is a good idea, but good citizenship states that you must carry this farther and warn other businesses. If he steals from you, he probably steals from other stores. This is one reason why prices of things go up. The store just passes on the cost to the rest of us. You should get direction from management, because ultimately it’s up to the store owner to dictate policy, and if there were to be a legal fuss, the store owner would have to take responsibility for what the employees do.

netgrrl's avatar

I disagree with your decision to not get the law involved.

Maybe you’re ok with at least an $80 loss to your store, but what about other stores where he’s been stealing? Chances are you aren’t the only store.

This man may have a real problem with stealing. In that case, he doesn’t need your “creative” humiliation. He needs help. He probably won’t get it until there are very real consequences for his actions. Stop trying to be cutesy about it.

john65pennington's avatar

2nd Answer: shoplifters are complex-minded thieves. if a shoplifter steals property valued at $80.00. the shoplifter will also steal $80,000 dollars if the situation presents itself. this has been proven time after time. also, a guilty plea to shoplifting will stay on a persons criminal record forever and this person will never be considered for any government position.

semblance's avatar

I am an attorney and I know a lot about the subject of shoplifting. Do not take this as creating an attorney-client relationship.

You already have enough evidence to make a criminal complaint.

Your state probably has a civil demand statute which would allow you to claim damages against the shoplifter for several times the amount he stole. That claim can be enforced in small claims court.

Your state also probably gives you powers to detain the shoplifter, by force if necessary, if you catch him in the act of committing a crime at your store again.

As you already know, you can ban the shoplifter from your store.

With all of these options it would be unbearably stupid to try to pursue any alternative “creative” or “clever” strategy of humiliating the shoplifter. That could backfire on you big time and, as some other posters have suggested, result in a lawsuit against you. Even if you could successfully defend it you could spend many thousands of dollars doing so. Don’t be more stupid than the shoplifter.

gailcalled's avatar

What about saving the incriminating tapes to show to him privately when next he returns?

Kraigmo's avatar

As @zophu pointed out, it is the community’s job to use shame and embarrassment, when necessary. Americans are far too Authority-dependent.

We need to evolve past the point of running to Authority for every single occurrence on Earth. People need to learn they do not need to run to the Police, the Teacher, the Preacher, or Mommy & Daddy for every single thing that happens. That is a childish culture, both in the fact it commits crimes, and in the way it solves/prevents them.

How much money and time has Congress wasted on issues brought up by Authority-dependent people? People who need Mommy & Daddy government to protect their kids for them with FCC regulations preventing boobs at super bowls and F-words on musical awards shows, making all traffic on all sides of the road stop for school buses of high schoolers who apparently never learned how to look both ways, etc…. it is they who fail completely at controlling the very things they seek to control. If you use institutional tools, you get institutional results. If you use creative community tools, you get creative community results. One can obey the law, without having to always run to the Law.

Our store had to go through a lot of politics and red tape just to exist; and calling the police in this city, on a petty crime, would do far more harm to the store than the shoplifter ever did. All it would take is 1 single individual officer with a side-agenda to leak the info out, and suddenly City Council will be saying “Look! They’re already a crime magnet!” We dont’ need that crap from such a petty City Council all beholden to interests directly opposite those of our store (interests having nothing to do with the welfare of the city).

Sure we’d, call the authorities if there were violence or ongoing threats. Sure we’d call the authorities if people were in danger of something. A heavy problem requires a heavy tool. But we do not believe in using the heavy tool for every thing that happens.

I agree that predatory people should generally be locked up. But why should we subject ourselves to dangerous city council politics all over a shoplifting report?

I like the suggestions people have put here that answered my question. Perhaps we should hang the shoplifter’s facepic up on the wall Since he had no ‘expectation’ of privacy anyway.

I appreciate @semblance‘s remarks about the legalistic way of looking at these things, but disagree with his conclusion. Holding the guy in our backroom (Which would require brute force) and then prosecuting him, both of which we can do under California law…. that’s far more chaos than just shaming him somehow.

One of the reasons that criminals-of-opportunity exist, is the moral-less, Authority-dependent culture we are.

Communities, large and small, who come together to shame those who do wrong will have less crime than communities that rely on enforced criminal laws.

Shaming can be misused too, of course, but it costs a lot less, and works generally better, than petty reliance on authority.

And of course we’d call the cops if it was no-brainer. At a camping trip I was on, we saw a man show up who was obviously a man who was being shown on the news, for murder. We surrounded him, duct taped his hands and feet, and called the police.

But here at the store, the situation doesn’t call for government help. At least not this time.

I should acknowledge @john65pennington ‘s answer, because the reason he gives for us to turn this man in, are the most compelling reasons of all, and if we did turn him in, it would be for those exact reasons

semblance's avatar

@Kraigmo I kind of wonder why you posted this question. You pretty clearly have your mind made up to proceed outside of usual and customary channels. I think you are just looking for affirmation about what you have already decided to do. Again, you are taking an unnecessary risk and if it blows up in your face you only have yourself to blame.

As for your comments about my comment, I have several observations. One, you don’t need to do a physical detention because, based on the facts you stated you already have enough evidence to make a police report. Second, using force to detain someone is a legal option, but it is rarely necessary. The vast majority of shoplifters – probably more than 90% – submit meekly when caught. Third, use of the civil demand process does not involve the police and does not even involve the courts if the shoplifter pays in response to a demand letter, which most of them do.

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