Will B. Hussein Obama be a one term President?

Really? Rod Blagojevich is the voice of reason for some people?
That’s a disturbing thought. Will David Duke also be making an appearance for this circus?

If wishes were horses, @UScitizen would ride.

If he is, I doubt Rod will have anything to do with it.

Why the emphasis on his middle name?

And Blago is fukt, he was radioactive for years before his indictment, every legit politician knew enough to keep him at arm’s length. Blago is as credible as OJ searching for the “real” killers.

@jaytkay because Obama is a goddam muslin terrist.

God damn it cracks me up when people focus on President Obama’s middle name. As if there might be any sort of connection between him and terrorists…LOL. You clowns need to come up with new material.

Can he be a two term president if he can’t show us his birth certificate?

@janbb I surely hope not. I’m thinking he’s a one-termer and I think he and his whole regime will be neutered in the 2010 congressional elections.

Woof! Woof!

Can he be a two term president if he can’t show us his birth certificate?

Yes, obviously. Normal people ignored that nonsense and voted for him once, they can do it again.

@jaytkay You must not know my politics if you think that was serious. Sorry for omitting the ~.

“Normal people” – quote of the day.

i like how @UScitizen used his middle name. Can we refer to 42 as G. Walker Bush? or perhaps Dingleberry Jackson?

@janbb I took it seriously, wasn’t sure. Regardless, you bumped, I spiked.

@jaytkay Assuming those are baskeball terms, you get a penalty throw.

@janbb
volleyball

Ah – an extra serve then?

@janbb Volleyball – First player bumps the incoming ball straight up in the air, making it an easy slow-moving target for a partner to spike it hard back over the net.

I find it difficult to take any question seriously written like this – such as the way you’ve written Pres. Obama’s name, or the already-long-settled question of his birth.

I’m sure it’s really all a plot put forth by the Bilderberg group (the sarcasm should be apparent.)

@netgrrl Oh, knew it had been ignored, but I didnt know it had been settled. Got a link?

Well if G. Walkallovertheconstitution Bush can be reelected hey anything’s possible.

@plethora Here and here. These rumors are mostly all silly, and this is a pretty exhaustive list.

@janbb and @jaytkay thank you for making this stupid question into something much more silly.

@plethora It wouldn’t make any difference. Arguing w someone who refuses to accept proof that’s already been offered makes about as much sense as walking around with a sack of wet mice. It’s something to do, but pointless.

@netgrrl
True. unless you’re a parched cat at which point it becomes a dream come true

My middle name is Purcell. Because it’s extremely important you know middle names.

@toomuchcoffee911 , My middle name is Estelle, so that must mean there is a conspiracy because your middle name and mine almost rhyme.~

ooh,ooh, I find all this birther stuff just insane

@anti,-birthers here is one rumor/story that didn’t make the snopes list.

@kevbo Not true. Read the last line of my first link.

@BhacSsylan, sorry… I don’t see anything that contradicts the NPR story. You’ll have to point it out to me.

“The quality of paranoia is not strained. It rains from the gentle heavens.” (with apologies to Shakespeare.)

Here in Mississippi, we spell “birthers” r-a-c-i-s-t. Your mileage may vary.

@kevbo Sorry, it doesn’t contradict the NPR story directly, just the born in Kenya story. Sorry, wasn’t sure which you were going for. Still, we have a many-times validated Hawaiian birth certificate, so NPR getting it wrong proves nothing.

@netgrrl, So how is it racist to wonder why their is pre-2008 historical and public record narrative that says Obama was born in Kenya? And your insinuation is insulting and no more thoughtful than the sloganeering of those you criticize.

@BhacSsylan, I’m sure there is a Hawaii birth certificate. In fact the Director of Hawaii’s Department of Health is on record as having seen it on file. I find it odd that it wasn’t released to the public given the controversy it has caused. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to reconcile that with the aforementioned public record (which extends beyond the NPR example). I think you would agree that governments are capable of producing documents and identities for anyone to suit their purpose, which is to say only that fake “official” documents are possible. I’m less concerned about the authenticity of the birth certificate than I am about the narrative that has been published. Are these really mistakes or are we rewriting history?

We tolerated republicans for eons….May the republicans tolerate us for awhile. At least he can speak and thinks…...What a step up.

NPR? Publications print corrections all the time. I don’t see the connection.

Yes, any hint of racism is insulting to all of us. My opinion, mine alone, is that birthers are so appalled by the idea of a black family in the White House they continue to cling to the weakest of reasons why he should not be there.

I find the opinion is that Obama is a Muslim terrorist very insulting to the majority of those of us who voted for him!

@kevbo There is not a narrative. There is a single mistake, which has been corrected. It had not come up before as Obama was not a big name and no one caught it to correct it. When this whole silly thing came up NPR was informed of it’s mistake and fixed it. Simple. I see no other ‘narrative’ of a Kenyan-born Obama then this single mistake by NPR. Please give me more, as I don’t see it.

And the birth certificate was not released because Hawaiian policy is to only release birth certificates to those who have a tangible interest in it, it would be crazy in general to release a document as important as a birth certificate to the public. And that goes for anyone, not just Obama. Come on now, you just cannot walk into public records and see anyone’s birth certificate. He released a scan on the internet, you can’t ask for much better. See my link, there are a large number of verifications beyond this, such as a newspaper announcement of the birth, as well as an account with the doctor who delivered him.

And yes, it is hinting of at least a denial of reality, if not racism. There is a huge amount of evidence for Obama being on the level. You’re grasping at straws. At least, it looks like that now. If you can furnish more then a single erroneous NPR story, I’ll see.

@jazmina88, your response seems to be a common one. “At least he is popular/well spoken/better than Bush/on our side for a change/I just like him. Quit making a fuss.”

@netgrrl, no doubt many are, but the question is not a racist one. The question exists because there is ambiguity that hasn’t been reconciled. Why is there published narrative from multiple sources about Kenya if his birthplace is Hawaii (and do you really think the smart people at NPR would make such a fundamental mistake)? If the original birth certificate on file as Hawaii’s DOH director asserts, why didn’t Obama’s staff publicize it instead of the “new original?” Why doesn’t the new original bear a signature of the appropriate state official like every other legitimate birth certificate? I could give a shit about Obama’s race, and I think it’s great to have a minority represented in office, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to overlook some pretty basic questions that don’t have satisfactory answers.

@BhacSsylan, if the Bush years taught us anything it is that reality at this level is up for grabs, so pardon me for my questionable skepticism, but you’re wholly mistaken if you think I am racist.

If it is “crazy” to release an original, why did McCain do so? For that matter, why did the Senate seem to think it was so important to pass a unanimous resolution declaring him to be a natural-born citizen when the public controversy of his eligibility was minimal at best? Naturally, no outside party has a tangible interest in Obama’s birth certificate, but if you were running for office with this question hanging out there, wouldn’t you show the original? Or would you take a chance on a “duplicate original”?

He released a scan on the internet… right, a scan of a duplicate copy (or however you would like to describe it). The original is on file, but the duplicate copy should suffice.

What’s so top secret about one’s birth certificate, especially for a public figure? Oh wait… let’s see… my birth certificate has my name, sex, place of birth, birth date and date my birth was recorded (along with the optional seal and signature). Yes, very sensitive information.

Apologies for repetitive statements.

We can only hope…wont hurt to pray some also.

One term. End of story.

If God really does answer prayer.

You can copy an original and use it as proof of citizenship. A birth certificate like a social security card or even a drivers license, is a proof of identity. The scan was of the certificate of live birth, which is essentially the same, and serves the same role. It’s crazy to release the original, because you never release the original of anything. You make copies, it’s how it works. Official documents are copied and spread, and the original is held for safe keeping and in case more copies are needed. Also, please furnish me with a link where McCain gave his original birth certificate to the public. I can’t even find that he gave a copy.

And why would reality at this level be up for grabs? What level, precisely? I’ve got two newspapers declaring the birth, the document at several angles, which includes the public official’s signature and seal. And public policy of Hawaii to not release the original document to the public, as, again, it is still a very important document. Honolulu does not release the long form, as a matter of policy, as I’ve said before, and the short form has enough to confirm that he is a naturally born citizen, as shown by the “Location of birth”, as well as date, time, county, etc etc etc. Hell, it’s even enough to steal his identity with, if that would satisfy you. Even if you doubt that, what about the papers? What would be the point of forging that so long ago? As the first article above that i printed pointed out, there’s no reason for a conspiracy that old! It’s simply outrageous.

It’s not top secret. It is simply the way that official documents are handled. Just because he’s running for president doesn’t mean we get to disregard the law dealing with the handling of those documents.

And the certificate of live birth has everything you just asked for. Name, Barack Hussein Obama II. Sex, Male, Place of birth, Honolulu, Oahu. Birth date, August 4th, 1961, 7:42 PM. Filed the 8th. What else do you want? I read that right from my link, and you can get it off the photos, too.

And now, it’s too late, and too ridiculous. Anything can be faked, we’re all brains in a jar, etc etc etc. If all this still won’t satisfy you, i give up. I have furnished an easy answer to every one of your objections. I’m tired. Hell, I don’t even all that much like what he’s doing. I like him better then Bush, but I hate big government under either party, and declare independent for a reason. I voted for Bush in 2004! But he’s answered all attacks against him, as McCain did on the same subject, and if McCain won, I’d be defending him, too. He’s a citizen, he’s our president. Disagree with his policy if you like, but don’t stoop to trying to say he’s a kenyan terrorist in disguise to cover the fact that you can’t handle him legitimately winning the election, be it because you are racist, republican, or just angry. Good night.

Oh, and they passed a resolution on McCain because it was actually highly nebulous. He was born on a military base, and i believe not actually in the US. But that was enough to declare him a US citizen on two grounds. But, seeing as the case of what a ‘natural born citizen’ actually is was never decided (the constitution is quite hazy), they passed the resolution. Obama, who was born in the continental US, and with all necessary paperwork, never required such silliness.

”(and do you really think the smart people at NPR would make such a fundamental mistake)?”

Sure. I have no trouble accepting the possibility of an error on NPR’s part. Just for fun, I Googled “NPR retraction” and found links to a number of other corrections over the years.

NPR so badly wants its listeners to think it’s people are smart and that they are smart for listening to it.

I’m not arguing about:

*Hawaii releasing it to the public
*A long form
*“Us” disregarding a law

and if by copy you mean photocopy, then that’s not a copy.

I’m none of the things you suppose nor do I say any of those things and similarly your labeling would be offensive if it wasn’t offset by your facts. Maybe I’m angry, but not particularly angry about this, just skeptical—more to the point I am generally distrustful, but that has little to do with Obama personally.

I will take back my statement, though, about McCain’s birth certificate (what I thought was his is probably a fake circulating on the Internet which I only just realized), because I realize now that I simply don’t know the facts, and I will accept what you say that certificates in general aren’t released. So my apologies and thank you for your persistence in making your point. I’m convinced enough to shut up about the issue.

i always thought McCain’s birth certificate would be in cuniform on a clay tablet or something

We will probably be arguing all the way to the 2012 election and past it and nobody is going to change anyone else’s mind. I would say the lines are clearly drawn. I suggest that the lefties take a number from 1 to 20 and the righties from 20 to 40 and you just have to type in your number and we will recognize your response. (And conspiracy theorists get number 51, @kevbo.)

wait, didn’t people say George W. Bush would be a one-term president, end of story? TWIST!

It is my understanding that one can’t go to a Muslim school, unless you are a muslim. And I believe you must give up your citizenship to do that. It came from Obama himself that he went to a Muslim school. He also said he went to a Catholic school. But, the difference is, you don’t have to be a Catholic to go to a Catholic school. So it is clear to me he is a Muslim. The man is not truthful about many things and I believe he is a one term president.

I think your “understainding’ is faulty about the Muslim schools and citizenship @Rangie. Do you have any reputable source for that because it’s just plain wrong.

@janbb Read Obama’s book. Listen to his debate with Hillary. He so much as said so. I also said I believe on the citizenship issue. But the Muslim school is a fact, unless Obama is lying.
Can you prove that I am wrong?

Oh, there’s no doubt that he attended a Muslim school when he was 5 or 6 in Indonesia. I read his bio. Is that a crime now?

It is my understanding that one can’t go to a Muslim school, unless you are a muslim. And I believe you must give up your citizenship to do that.

Both entirely untrue.

@janbb No, I didn’t say it was a crime. I am pointing out that he is a muslim. And once a muslim always a muslim. So many of the left says he is not a muslim. Our country is at odds with the Muslim world, as we are called infidels. Where does that leave us with a president that is a muslim?

@jaytkay Can you prove that?

It appears to me that we have been sidetracked. Don’t get me wrong I am not criticizing peoples right to their faiths, whatever it is. The Muslim folks are totally entitled to their beliefs. My point is more to the issue of if Obama had to give up his citizenship, if he ever had one, when did he become a citizen of the US. And is he a naturalized Citizen? And how do you know for sure?

Sigh. Kevbo was extremely courteous, and not only conceded to facts, but did so in a courteous way when i was being… less then civil. And then as soon as i turn my back, another problem. As to his school, taken from the CNN report on his school:

“This is a public school. We don’t focus on religion,” Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. “In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don’t give preferential treatment.”

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

“I came here to Barack Obama’s elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa… like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan,” Vause said on the “Situation Room” Monday. “I’ve been to those madrassas in Pakistan… this school is nothing like that.”

Here is the Snopes article on him being a Muslim, which expresses this much better then I can, which multiple hard sources. Here is an article about the 50 lies email, two of which (7 and 8) also deal with his school, though the previous article is better.

I have, unfortunately, not read his book. Would you mind showing where he said he ever declared he was a Muslim? According to my sources, he has never declared himself to be a Muslim, to any degree, and has said much about the fact that that his mother was non-religious and only gave him any instruction in muslim as a way to ground him in all common religions, alike with Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto, and a few others.

Now, I’m not really sure why I’m arguing, because a) you have made unfounded claims about Muslim schools. the burden of proof lies on you to show that you cannot enter the public school he attended without being a Muslim or giving up citizenship and b) your comment “once a Muslim always a Muslim” is so blatantly ridiculous. Even if he was a Muslim, people change! But, that’s besides the point. He never claimed anything of the sort. And we ARE NOT AT WAR WITH THE MUSLIM WORLD. That is a blatant stereotypical comment, i don’t care what you think. We are at war with Muslim Radicals, which does not make up every member of one of the worlds largest religions, and any of the many Muslims living in America quite peacefully are horrified on a daily basis by the ridiculous assertions that we are at war with their religion.

To your latest comment. He never had to give up his citizenship. That much is clear, because he would not have been allowed to run if that was a case. And none of the several lawsuits attempting to disallow him from doing so has ever gotten past a judge. That is how I know for sure. You cannot run for president if you have given up your citizenship. And look to any of my previous posts for proof that he is a natural born citizen.

last note, @kevbo, thanks. I didn’t expect you to be so gracious, and I apologize. It was late, and i was angry, and i responded as such, and that is not to my credit. Please forgive my misguided anger.

I have a relative that married a muslim. She told me if the father is a muslim, the children are muslims. She had to sneak out of the country with her daughter, but she said she would have been killed if she tried to take her son. But, I am not so concerned about his religion, as I am about his citizenship. I don’t trust many judges, anymore than I trust you. If you know so many facts, why don’t you go to Washington and on the TV and Radio and clear things up for everybody once and for all.

Look at my posts. He has given a birth certificate, as well as much other evidence that he is a citizen. I have had this exact argument with @kevbo. Look above for my proof. I have so many facts because I spend the time to look them up and check them. Enough people have gone before me to dig up the facts I am using, and many people have compiled those facts before me, I am simply using their works to prove my point. I am saying I trust the judges because there is an obvious point if Obama gave up his citizenship, and that point has never appeared, not even in his opponent’s rhetoric.

And, if you don’t mind, what country did your friend sneak out of? Because Obama wasn’t living in a strong radical Muslim country, such as Iraq, where that sort of problem would be more typical. But, i haven’t checked that particular one. However, numerous reports give Obama’s father as never being a radical Muslim, and also being agnostic by the point when they had Obama. Even more, his father divorced his mother not too long afterwards (when Obama was two), so his influence was decidedly minimal.

@BhacSsylan If people can make excellent counterfeit money, you know they can make a birth certificate.
Why did he go to Indonesia in the first place?
His father was indeed a Muslim, why would his father send him to a public school?
And the fact that he contributes his stay in Indonesia at his young age as his foreign experience. I don’t think so.
How do you know they are facts, just because someone said so. I am surprised you are so willing to believe that easily. Why would Obama bow to the Saudi King, and not non muslim heads of countries? I have questions and nobody has yet to satisfy them with absolute answers.
He is a one term president. End of story.:)

Indeed they can. And all the money in my wallet can be counterfeit. But I chose to believe the preponderance of evidence from the certificate, signed and sealed, the doctor who birthed him, the two newspapers declaring the birth, and the word of the official who checked his long form certificate that it is true.

He went to Indonesia because his mother went there. This is why most children move. I do not know his mother’s motive. And for your next line, his father was gone by that point. Again, he was two when he left.

Sorry, I don’t know what your next line means. Please clarify.

Yes, I believe things because people said so. I believe many things because people say so, like that the sky is blue because of refraction of sunlight, that I can trust my senses, that i live in America and not a small, highly elaborate camp in the middle of Iraq where they test human psychology, that we’re not all brains in a jar hooked up to simulators. At some point, you have to allow the preponderance of evidence.

He would bow because that is the custom for them, and he is respecting that. It is not custom to bow to most other heads of state.

And we will see in 2012. End of story.

@BhacSsylan said “ARE NOT AT WAR WITH THE MUSLIM WORLD.”
But we are at war with one of it’s factions and the rest of them aren’t exactly joining us in our cause even though they would benefit when we succeed in it.
They are either cowards or complicit.

@BhacSsylan Are you going to say that this is or is not fact?
“http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=72656”

@CodePinko And the catholic church isn’t joining us, either. Are they complicit? Many Muslims have outright attacked the radical elements, you cannot ask for more.

@Rangie I have seen many sensationalist stories on that site, so on first glace, i would disbelieve it. However, lets take it at face value, just to see. What does it say? Well, it asks whether he was an Indonesian citizen. Okay. Reading in, we see that they say he was probably one, if adopted by Soetero. Okay, seems reasonable. It also says that he would in no way be forfeiting his US citizenship to do so. It lists ‘Islam’ in a barely readable line halfway down. Chances are it asks what his father was, and in either case it still proves nothing. His father said he was Islam, okay. He had to fill it in. So what? This is a registration for a catholic school, even. He was 5, you cannot ascribe him a religion, especially when his mother, the one constant in his life, was agnostic.

Basically, his fathers were Muslim. I will not deny that. However, you still have yet to prove that Barack was ever so.

@BhacSsylan Keep reading. What about the school registration? Anyway, I have to go to the Valley 4 hrs. away. So must leave. But will be back on Monday. It has been interesting. Thanks.

This is increasing propoganda and a full on assault from the right at which they do best. Slick insiders plant lies and obfuscation to create rumors. Plant an article a half a dozen places and it somehow seems reputable. Whether they are substantiated or not means little to the GOP. They attempt to undermine support and erode confidence in our President and create mistrust. Moles in the garden do the same thing. It’s not that they they destroy the yard intentionally but they create holes and burrow through good soil. There is no value in this except to further their agenda. Like the Scopes article points out. The process just churns out more lies endlessly….and after that It’s just like a game of WACK A MOLE.

@Rangie What about the school registration? It really doesn’t say anything. It says he was registered at the school. What are you reading in it?

i know plenty of people who went to Catholic school who don’t follow the tenets of the Catholic church. Should we assume that they’re all kid diddlers because they went to Catholic school?

@Rangie And, also, you said previously that the birth certificate can be faked. Could not this document also be faked to try and mar him? And much easier, it’s not as important a document. That argument goes both ways. Of course, the fact that it doesn’t say anything bad makes it unlikely for anyone to fake it from lack of motive. But still.

@BhacSsylan the rules only apply in the direction of what proves @Rangie‘s argument. duh.~ otherwise, please ignore common sense and reason.

@BhacSsylan The catholic church doesn’t have a division created for terrorizing Americans.

America lived with a huge liability for 8 years. It can certainly handle the small one right now.

@CodePinko And interestingly enough, all the Muslims didn’t get together and decided they needed a terrorist division. Catholics have done far, far more damage to the world in their time, and very little has been even apologized for. Many Muslim communities that are not involved in these attacks, especially those in the US, have been vocal against the actions of the radicals, which is all they can do. They’re not going to all enlist, for the same reason that all the German Americans didn’t enlist in WWII.

Those Muslims not involved have lent support as possible. They are not responsible for the actions of those that twist their faith, and your generalizations do nothing but foster anger and hate against those that have done nothing.

I feel quite sure, that history will show that the so called “normal people that voted Obama in once, can do it again,” will realize they were duped. Oh, I know, they won’t want to admit that they got taken in with his wool over the eyes speeches. But, the day will come. In fact, I think many have already discovered, they were fooled by this joker, and now have become hateful, blaming, left wing, name calling, unreasonable, ill equipped to communicate on this topic, individuals. I really can’t see that there is anything else to say. He is a one term president. @BhacSsylan With your view of Catholics, I take it you did not vote for any of the Kennedy’s. Also, did you not say ”Could not this document also be faked to try and mar him? And much easier, it’s not as important a document. That argument goes both ways. Of course, the fact that it doesn’t say anything bad makes it unlikely for anyone to fake it from lack of motive. But still. Key word here “also”. my point exactly.
The problem with left-wing liberals, is they seem to be unable to think for themselves enough to even consider the fact that they just might be willing to see things from a different point of view, and therefore, possibly changing their mind. For me, my mind an always be changed, with absolute evidence, which I doesn’t get presented very often. Oh, yes there are articles here and there, but there are an equal number disputing them. So the will be in the pudding.

Starting with the catholic comment, no, I wasn’t around to vote on that one, but if I had been my point was that religion does not define every member of it. People have done horrible things in the name of the Qu’ran. But, people have also done more horrible things in the name of the Bible. I’ve known quite a few muslims, many of which I am happy to consider friends. And I was raised catholic and haven’t come to hate my parents. Each religion has done terrible things, but that doesn’t mean everyone in it is terrible. It means there are good people and bad people, like there are in all things.

Moving onward, What is your evidence? I still stand by the fact that your article says nothing we do not already know, and nothing even damaging. I was simply pointing out that your logic can be applied to anything. There is no such thing as absolute evidence, plain and simple. Everything can be debated, from the simple fact that I can easily, and effectively, debate the very evidence of your senses. I choose not to, because I am not a skeptic. However since, you are constantly saying things can be faked and yet still relying on evidence shows you are not being skeptical, simply choosing what to believe.

The evidence on one side clearly outweighs the other. One side is sparse, with random evidence frequently proved to be lies or hearsay. And otherwise not saying anything, but just implying.“Obama said something five years ago that could be taken as him being Muslim”. “He went to school in Indonesia”. “He visited Pakistan at one point.” or, “Once a Muslim, always a Muslim. His absent father was a Muslim, so Obama must me faking it.” That’s all it is. You have yet to produce anything of real substance. The only thing you have even sourced is a small, easily faked piece of paper which doesn’t tell us anything we did not already know.

Now, I have many sources, at least one of which being an oft-checked, signed, sealed, dated certificate of live birth, with the long form confirmed by a public official. I have the evidence of every judge to ever hear a case against Obama. I have, more easily faked, but still easily confirmed evidence of the two newspapers announcing Obama’s birth. And, just for the hell of it, I have the account of the obstetrician who birthed him.

Can it all be faked? Certainty. However, there is an obvious bias in this discussion, a very large gap in terms of the evidence presented. I rest my case.

@Rangie hateful, blaming, left wing, name calling, unreasonable, ill equipped to communicate on this topic, individuals – time to look in the mirror – your party offerend zero acceptable to people w/half a brain alternatives to presidency.

@Simone_de_Beauvoir, ooooh! Yer so mavericky!

@kevbo oh shush, lol

It depends on who the conservatives run, if they decide to run someone that will accept the nearly half their party they’ve alienated, then they might have a chance, but it’s unlikely they can put together enough of a campaign with the extremeness of their current party to beat Obama and his war-chest. The republicans need to get serious about 2010, actually… if they’re going to allow Palin to be their figure head they have no hope with young voters, hispanic voters, black voters, moderate voters… etc.

the so called “normal people that voted Obama in once, can do it again,” will realize they were duped.

After 8 years of Bush, I’m sure the repubs can tell us how that felt.

@BhacSsylan first, you are careful enough to say many, and some muslims, but you say Catholics, not some or many. Just pointing out the nitty gritty as you would do to me. I am also Catholic, and I agree with you about the fact that some of the Catholics have done things that are shameful. I wasn’t saying all muslims. So I don’t see that we are too far apart on that issue.
Second, in that particular article, Obama was enrolled in school using his step-fathers name. So, he went by Barry Soetero. When he was sworn in as an Illinois Senator, he swore under oath, that he never went by any other name. Apparently, not true. When he was registered in school in Indonesia he registered as a natural born citizen of Honolulu, Hawaii. Religion as a Muslim. If this was a fake document, I doubt it would say place of birth Honolulu, Hawaii. So I feel fairly confident that the document is real. Now, he being registered as a Muslim, gives me concerns about his loyalties, when I see him bowing to the Saudi king, and not the Queen of England. I presented this particular article, as I could have linked you any other one. It wouldn’t matter, because I would be finding articles to support my side of this issue, just as you would, to support your side of things. Fair enough.
In conclusion, I say all of it can be fake on both sides. So now we have to go on action and what he says.
I don’t want the man to fail, because then we all fail. I just don’t want to go down a path where we all lose the freedoms we work so hard to keep.
The way I see it, we are debating something neither of us can really prove.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir So is that why all of you people with half a brain voted for Obama? People with a brain would not do that.
By the way, It is not MY party. It does happen to be the one I choose to associate with.
Unless something really, and I mean really major happens, Obama, or should I say Barry, will be a one term president.

@Rangie I see no evidence for this assertion. Sitting presidents are hard to unseat. I see him getting a few more electoral votes, again depending on who is put against him… If it’s Palin, the Republicans risk losing states that they typically easily win.

@JeanPaulSartre As I see no evidence for some of the assertions posted by others. It is just my opinion, as everyone’s is.
Who knows, who will run, or what the reaction will be. I see you stated your own opinion if Palin runs. You really don’t know that, but it is your best guess, and that is all any of have. Which, we should respect.

@Rangie My opinion, yes, but grounded in analysis – it’s not a completely blind guess. That is, my opinion has some basis, a reason to assert what I do, based on trends for all the presidents since we started constitutionally electing them. I don’t think it really has anything to do with respect, although I do respect guesses with an analytical basis.

@Rangie I’ll admit saying “Catholics” was a mistake. I should have said some. Now, many atrocities committed by the church, say the crusades, were ordered by the central authority, while I don’t believe that is the case with the Muslim extremists. However, that would be unfair on several levels, especially since I’m sure there were many Catholics during that crusades who also were very unhappy with what the church was doing. So, I misspoke, my apologies.

Also, you have not been arguing that point, really. That last post was aimed @CodePinko, who is arguing as such.

As to your points, it does seem to say registered as Islam. Again I can’t really read what it says, but the word “Islam” is clear, and I don’t really doubt it. But at this point, Obama was 5 years old, and his mother, again the one solid influence in his life, was not Muslim. 5 is far too young to say he has a religion, especially when he was not a regular attendee, to any extent. So i would not consider him Muslim considering those two facts. His father probably filled this out, and simply wrote Islam because his mother had no religion to claim for him. This is not uncommon, in general.

And that leads to his name. A little strange, I admit. However, there is a valid possibility, and that is simply that his father wanted to change his name, and maybe did in Indonesia, but it never happened according to the US, which is entirely believable to me. In which case he did not lie, because of the simple fact that they were asking about the US history, in which case he was never under a different name. And he would have no obligation to say otherwise. In general it is not a good idea to confuse a record with frivolous details. And the best proof of this is the fact that this tidbit has also not been brought to court. If it was the case that he lied, then he lied under oath, and could be kicked out of any public office. So, I chose to believe the more probable case in this instance. But, I don’t know. That is simply my interpretation.

On another note, according to the Monarchy, no high formality is required by those that greet the queen, a handshake is considered enough, and no more then a neck bow at most. And so Obama did so. The Saudi King requests a more formal greeting, and so Obama acquiesced. Really, it is simply a matter of honoring the different customs. At least, it seems to me.

And yes, it can be faked, and neither of us could be right. I chose the side I see as being more probably correct, as I do in most things. But you are allowed your opinion.

And now that you are being so civil about this argument, could you not try and be a little less inflammatory about other people’s votes? Sure, you don’t like Obama, but that doesn’t mean that everyone voting for him is a half-brained angry idiot, or destined to become one. We disagree, that is all. One of us is not an idiot because of it. I didn’t vote for McCain because I disagreed with many of his points, but I thought he did have fine points. Hell, if he had distanced himself from some of Bush’s decisions, I would have seriously considered voting for him. I’m registered Independent for a reason. But, i intensely disliked the way Bush ran things, and McCain made a point of saying many things would stay the same. So I voted for Obama, who I agreed with more points on. End of story.

And according to Gallup, Obama is currently at 51% job approval. So not everyone is disillusioned quite yet, from that perspective.

@JeanPaulSartre I would think most of us base our opinions on something other than blue sky. We each see, hear, read, and come to our conclusions in a different way. My son in law is a high school teacher. He has told us many times when his kids are presented with some facts about something, there are 30 some different ways of digesting those facts, and coming to many different conclusions.

@Rangie I would hope so. What are you basing your assertions on?

@BhacSsylan First, let’s check where the half brain statement came from
_ time to look in the mirror – your party offerend zero acceptable to people w/half a brain alternatives to presidency.
Simone_De_Beauvoir (19945points)“Great Answer” (1points) Flag as… ¶

_
Okay, let’s move on. as for arguing this point, I just had 2cents, so I thought I would give it to you. :)
If bowing to the Saudi king is commanded by them, why is Obama the first US president to do so? Well we may never know that.
As for the papers being fake, since neither of us knows for absolute sure, we can agree to differ on our opinions. :)
As for voting for President this past election. Well, I didn’t like McCain, never did. too wish washy for me. I didn’t vote for him. I also felt too much fake hype from Obama, so would not vote for him. So, my guy did not get there. There are some things Bush did that I don’t like either. But, if we go back on each and every president, we will find things they all did that we intensely didn’t like. :(
I don’t see that we are in a heated disagreement here. I can see where you are coming from, and perhaps you can see where I am coming from. But that is okay.
The half brain thing was not mine. Enjoyed the debate. thanks.

@JeanPaulSartre Not looking for a fight. I base my opinions on what I read, see, and hear. probably the same way you do.

@Rangie Nor am I, I’m just curious as to what sources could possibly lead you to these conclusions.

@JeanPaulSartre So you are asking me to list what news radio, and TV stations I listen to. And what papers I read.
I am not going there, to open more assault on myself. good try though. Let’s leave it peacefully.

@Rangie I do like citation of claims, but okay.

@Rangie Okay, I admit that i wasn’t quite sure where that came from, I’ll admit you were purely defending based on that attack. However, this was still a little out of line (and most likely why Simon started in on you):

“I feel quite sure, that history will show that the so called “normal people that voted Obama in once, can do it again,” will realize they were duped. Oh, I know, they won’t want to admit that they got taken in with his wool over the eyes speeches. But, the day will come. In fact, I think many have already discovered, they were fooled by this joker, and now have become hateful, blaming, left wing, name calling, unreasonable, ill equipped to communicate on this topic, individuals.”

Mostly the second part, of course. You’re free to believe that Obama will be a bad president.

@BhacSsylan Correct – why I included a part of that quote in my comment. Maybe it’s hard to grasp…

@BhacSsylan “normal people that voted Obama in once, can do it again” was not my quote. However the rest is, and not nearly as hateful as some other posts by other people on this thread. At least I did not direct it to any one individual. It seems okay for the dem’s to say mean hateful things, but others cannot. hummmm.

@Rangie Oh yeah, do the whole ‘well he threw the stone too, mine was smaller’ like that helps anything. You may not direct your hate to anyone in particular (which, imo, is worse) but I am directing my response at you because it was you who spewed that into the world and you knew perfectly well what flame-bait it was and you said it anyway – no need to backtrack now, it’s clear what your true colors are and they ain’t pretty.

@Rangie
Bowing to any foreign king who is not doing the same to you I also find a little weird. That’s too self deprecating for a person of his stature. But I don’t think it was with agenda rather than simply a poor PC decision.
Hillary would have made a better president in my opinion. The GOP needs to find a stronger alternative than Palin though no matter what Obama does.

@the room
P.S.- If people would stop using inflammatory language and accept that there are different points of view we might have a civil discourse.
P.S.S.- It’s even more difficult when someone is the minority in a thread and people should be even more gracious

@SeventhSense I’ll remind you that next time you make fun of me for my gender ideas

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
I hate to say it but you did start it…don’t shoot the messenger..

@SeventhSense I will not shoot you simply because your message is incorrect – my response was in response to something hateful

ah yes… back to the olde fluther…

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
The implication that those with half a brain voted one way was certainly that those of the opposing side were without and the retort back across the net was predictable and you responded after reaping the bitter harvest of your seed.

@SeventhSense no sense in wasting more of my time here – I’ll pm you

Let me slip into something more comfortable.

@SeventhSense :)

[mod says] Let’s get back on track, folks. No more personal attacks, either.

@SeventhSense Yes, I agree, Hillary would have made a better president. I don’t think Palin will be their candidate. I don’t think she can win. But, there again, anybody would be better than Obama. I think Hillary should run against Obama in 2010. I would be willing to bet she would win.
I wouldn’t vote for her, only because she is a little too liberal for me.

@Rangie
Well I still think Obama is the better alternative and disagree with the sentiment that anyone would be better than Obama.

@SeventhSense I thought you said you thought Hillary would have made a better president than Obama?

Well yes apart from her…

@SeventhSense Oh, okay I didn’t catch that. Well, I am hoping we come up with somebody that will knock their socks off. We will see. I never have missed a vote in my life and I don’t intend to the next time either.