Whats next for the new Arizona Immigration Law?

The Fed taking a lesson I hope. The National government has been failing us on this issue for decades. Arizona is doing the only thing they can.
THE FACT THAT ILLEGALS HAVE WORK WHILE CITIZENS EXPERIENCE RECORD UNEMPLOYMENT IS AN OUTRAGE.

A legal citizen is arrested for being unable to document his citizenship on the spot and looking “reasonable suspicious” and is held in one of Maricopa County’s tent prisons doing hard labor until he can get a lawyer who takes this to the Supreme Court, where the law is overturned. Then the man files a civil suit and takes the state of Arizona for all they’ve got. Net waste of taxpayer dollars somewhere in the millions.

The next step will be someone filing for an injunction to stop the law from being enforced. That will probably be granted, and then they’ll slug it out in court for years.

Snarp. i agree with your answer and its possible ending. just think, Arizona and the rest of the nation would not be in this situation, if only the Feds had started to enforce the Immigration Laws several years back. this situation lies squarely on the shoulders of the Federal Government.

Remember what happened in Alabama, when the Federal Government passed laws for desegregation? the local and state govenment in Alabama refused to accept the new Federal Law and a showdown took place. the president sent in U S Marshals and federalized the National Guard in that state. this essentially killed the powers of the local and state government in Alabama. will Arizonas new Illegal Immigration Law enforcement end the same as in Alabama? i think so, since Federal Law supercedes local and state laws. its going to be interesting.

There are about a half-dozen organizations, including Phoenix’s mayor, who intend to challenge it in court. The Federal Justice Department is also looking into the law. I don’t see much chance of much of it holding up in Federal court. A lower court is bound to overturn it, which means it will be fought all the way up to the Supreme Court. That means it won’t get on this year’s docket. The SCOTUS doesn’t convene again until October, so there will be an injunction against enforcing the law in September as it’s written. If the court takes it up next year, it probably won’t see a ruling until at least 2011.

It’s unclear to me whether the law will be upheld by the Supreme Court. If it is, it will be yet another 5–4 decision by the court’s conservative wing. In doing so, they’ll be overturning decades of legal precedents dating back to the 1960s, but that would not surprise me coming out of such an activist court. If, however, the court rules the law unconstitutional, and I’m betting they will (by 5–4. Anthony Kennedy is the Supreme Court now, for all practical purposes), Arizona will have spent millions of dollars passing and defending a useless law, and there will be a lot of pissed-off people down there.

My problem with it is I don’t like the idea of the police having the power to arrest people when it should be an INS responsibility, because I would not want an illegal immigrant afraid to report something to the police if they or others in their neighborhood were in danger.

Giuliani kind of did this in NY if I remember correctly, but not targeting illegal aliens, but to try to clean up teh streets and reduce crime. People were asked for ID if they were just hanging around on street corners, or if they were unfamiliar to the neighborhood. I am certainly not ok with anyone being harrassed, but I would bet the authorities pretty much know who is illegal, where they tend to live and work.

Seems it would be more prudent to get some more INS workers down there, if they want to get rid of the illegal immigrants in Arizona. Honestly, I think generally the government turns a blind eye to illegal immigrants for the most part.

Jleslie. you bring up a very good point that i would like to comment on. in Nashville, we were told not to bring just one suspected illegal immigrant to their office or call for an INS agent. the minimum INS would respond to was ten. so, where did that leave the police? if a person was arrested for a crime and asked for their green card, at that point, the INS should have been called and responsible for deporting this person, if no green card is present. does not work that way. the whole mess has been left in the hands of the local police and to deal with arrested, illegal immigrants anyway they seem fit. we were doing our job, the Feds were not and its finally come to this and Arizona has had enough. their state has approx. 500,000 illegal immigrants.

@john65pennington I think immigration status should come into play if they are going to trial, not a simple arrest. At least I think that is what I think. Unless it is actually INS doing the “arresting” that is a different issue.

I don’t get it, what exactly are they going to do? Americans don’t typically carry their passport or birth cerificate. Or, I guess if they don’t issue drivers licenses and age of majority cards to illegal immigrants then you have no ID?

I think it was a town in PA I once saw featured who had made it illegal to rent housing/apartments to illegal immigrants. They could not live there, so the town effectively eliminated the problem form what I understand. But, the law came under fire, not sure what ultimately happened.

@JLeslie That was Hazleton, PA. The law was ultimately ruled unconstitutional. The city was found to have usurped the federal government’s powers.

@Dr_Dredd I love that; ‘usurped the federal government’s powers’.

It is indeed the Constitutional responsibility of the Feds to police the borders and to handle immigration. If they would bother to so police and handle, the individual states wouldn’t have to worry about it. It is more than pathetic for them to abdicate the responsibility and punish those who would take up that responsibility.

Does anyone, with the exception of @john65pennington and @CodePinko, care that the situation in AZ is a result of the federal govts failure to enforce our immigration law and the failure of the congress to enact reasonable immigration constraints? Lest we think AZ is just an outlier, it is just on the bleeding edge of the immigration issue, so much so that 70% of its citizens support the law.

(I find it interesting that not one single person on Fluther has acknowledged that, while the Phoenix mayors opposition to it has been mentioned several times. Says where flutherites heads are)

Every single state will face this issue. AZ is just the first one to have the guts, born of necessity, to take action.

As for INS (now ICE) taking action. Janet Napolitano is totally opposed to ICE taking any action whatsoever, even to sniff out illegals being hired, against the law.

One more time

@Factotum Hey, I didn’t write the legal opinion. I just reported it. :-)

@plethora , it isn’t a matter of who cares about what. I understand it’s a problem there; it’s a problem here in Illinois, too. There are 11 million people in this country illegally, so it’s a problem for all of us. And yes, it is an abject failure on the part of the Federal government to enforce immigration laws, but this is a problem that dates back decades, and we can’t afford to address it right now with so many other problems on our plate. But that’s exactly what’s going to happen in Washington right now; we will therefore get no climate bill this year, and probably nothing else. Thanks, Arizona.

Arizona could have done better with this law if they hadn’t made it so far-reaching. There is no way they’re going to get police officers to stop and question people without running afoul of Supreme Court rulings that date back to the 1970s. That part of the law, at least, is going to be ruled unconstitutional, and they know it. The part of the law that deals with picking up day laborers off the streets is a good idea, but it’s likely to get thrown out along with the rest of the law and in the end, they will come away with nothing except a lot of people pissed off on both sides of the political divide.

@IchtheosaurusRex The day-laborer part will probably be unconstitutional as well. There have been multiple lawsuits in different states claiming that restrictions on day-laborers violates First Amendment protection of commercial speech. I don’t know how high those lawsuits were appealed,though.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. :-)

@IchtheosaurusRex @Dr_Dredd You’re probably both right. This is an issue about which I am pretty passionate, so I’m just glad to see some gasoline thrown onto the fire. If it also serves to slow down the Obama steamroller, so much the better.

@Dr_Dredd , there is a provision in the bill about it impeding traffic, which might be enough to push it into lawful territory. However, I think the toxic parts of the bill are going to result in the whole thing being tossed out.

@IchtheosaurusRex I think you’re probably right…

@Dr_Dredd @IchtheosaurusRex But not without fueling movement on immigration at a national level. just reading and listening to all the bleeding hearts on TV, etc wanting to keep the criminals in our country. Just wondering if I can get the same break next time I’m stopped on the highway doing 90.

Let’s add a dash of balance to this discussion

And we surely don’t want to behave like those uncharitable Mexicans…..

“This is so blown out of proportion. Anyone from coast to coast when stopped by our brave police is ALWAYS asked for Identification..period!

Consider this regarding those who come here and work and then sent almost $20 billion US Dollars to their home country-Mexico.

Want to go to Mexico?

Not me and why?

Mexican Laws:

“Mexico has very strict immigration laws which are enforced by every police agency in the country.

Citizens from the United States traveling in Mexico without proper documents, work permits or non immigrant visas are subject to arrest as illegal aliens.”

- Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, will be Imprisoned.

- Foreigners who sign government documents “with a signature that is false or different is subject to fine and imprisonment.

- Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as Felons.

- Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years.

- Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison. Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico – such as working with out a permit – can also be imprisoned.

- Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony.

- Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals. Under the law, A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison.”

@plethora Interesting facts. I had written on the thread I started about Arizona and racial profiling that from what I understand Mexico has strict immigration laws, but I had no idea any of the details. Just that I remembered it being reported once years ago that Cubans had floated over to Mexico instead of the US this one time, and the Mexicans sent them right back to Cuba. I have no idea how often that happens. Anyway, at the time of the report it was mentioned that Mexico has fairly strict immigration laws.

@JLeslie Yes, I would not dare wander into Mexico without a passport. Free pass to the local jail where I would not be treated nearly as kindly as an illegal would be treated in our jails.

@plethora Well, not too long people went to Mexico with just an American drivers license. It was getting back into America that was tricky. Now that has changed from what I understand. I have had a passport since I was a very young, so I never had to travel to another country without one. I did once go to Mexico back in 1994 with a friend, and she did not have a passport. I think she brought her drivers license and her voters registration card if I remember correctly. She got hassled a little in immigration coming back into America, but they eventually let her through.

I am stunned that so many people don’t have passports. I think they are $70 and last for 10 years, what is the big deal? Always good to have a second picture ID I say.

@plethora , if Mexico wasn’t such a mess, none of their citizens would want to come to El Norte. Their laws are their laws, but you can buy your way out of just about any kind of trouble down there. If you don’t have a picture ID, a picture of Ben Franklin will do.

@IchtheosaurusRex Of course the real way to cure the problem is for Mexico and countries more south to have better economies and more possibilities for their own citizens. Good luck with that.

I kind of think of Mexicans as being like the right wing Republicans in the US of late, no trust in government, won’t pay more taxes (because they don’t trust government) it is a viscious cycle. My husband’s family is the first one to say they don’t understand why American’s complain about paying taxes when you see all of the services you get in America, city planning, and how beautiful the country is overall. But, if they went back to Mexico they would probably not want to pay taxes there willingly. Honestly, I think of where I live now as the same. The people around me don’t trust government because Memphis government is a nightmare. Bribery, nepotism, poor schools, bad planning. The people around me have no concept of what it is like to live in a city with high taxes that is safe, clean, great education, parks, etc.

@JLeslie Ahhh…Memphis….so right!!!

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. The next step with this law is massive law suits. A group of Hispanics will be stopped and detained because they are Hispanic, nothing more. Then it will start to show that other possible illegals, that blonde with weak English and a very think Swedish accent is not being detained at traffic stops, nor is that young man with a heavy Italian accent. There are 10s of thousands if not more illegal immigrants who are here on expired visas and such and when it is seen they are basically ignored amounting to a free pass, the state, the Governor etc will get sued. Money will settle this.

@JLeslie , I remember Mexico being described as a “poor man sitting on a bag of gold.” If something could be done about the corruption in the government there, they could develop their resources in their own national interests. Mexico is a stratified society with a small group of haves and a large group of have-nots. Those are the ones who come here, because there’s nothing for them at home, and the haves are not sharing.

It’s also what our own society would look like without the progressive reforms we’ve had since the late 19th Century. The ones the conservatives want to tear down.

@IchtheosaurusRex

“It’s also what our own society would look like without the progressive reforms we’ve had since the late 19th Century. The ones the conservatives want to tear down”

Oh yeah….those damn conservatives would turn the clock back a century and destroy our “progressive” society and make us look just like Mexico.”

Please refresh my memory…..you are on what planet?

@plethora , well, in all fairness, our society would probably resemble England in the time of Charles Dickens more than Mexico:

``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,’’ said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.’’

``Are there no prisons?’’ asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,’’ said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?’’ demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?’’

``They are. Still,’’ returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.’’

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?’’ said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.’’

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,’’ said Scrooge. ``I’m very glad to hear it.’’

``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,’’ returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?’’

``Nothing!’’ Scrooge replied.

``You wish to be anonymous?’’

``I wish to be left alone,’’ said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don’t make merry myself at Christmas and I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.’’

``Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.’’

``If they would rather die,’’ said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.

—From A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. Pretty good description of a latter-day Republican, don’t you think?

Same degree of social stratification, but not so much crime and corruption. It’s still not a place I’d want to live.

@IchtheosaurusRex I’ve always been under the impression that “A Christmas Carol” was fiction. My mistake.

@IchtheosaurusRex I agree with the haves and have nots analogy, but interestingly I think it important to know thatthe social strata is evaluated differently than in America 9I am assuming you are in America). My husband’s family feels as though they were rich while the children were growing up. Indeed they went to good schools, owned a few homes, travelled all over Western Europe and in America, they had some money for sure. But, I think they would probably fall into upper-middle class in America based on actual income and education. It’s just if you are “middle class” you are effectively part of the wealthy set, live very similar to the wealthy, because labor is so inexpensive. I don’t know how Mexico is now, and I come to this opinion by knowing about my husband’s family, but I have never studied Mexican socio-economics, so this is just my own observations.

@plethora , the novel was a work of fiction. The historical background was not. His novel Oliver Twist so shocked Victorian society that it was responsible for the clearing of a London slum in which it was set.

Of course, Dickens was a Socialist.