Illegal Alien vs Citizen, does that mean anything in the the US anymore?

I question the cops actions in this example.
Just sayin’.

I also think this thread is going to go down a bad road.

Well, it’s somewhat like an old person in our society.

They don’t really add anything to the community. They can’t work, can’t reproduce. They need constant attention, and feed off the system.

Personally, i think we should have forced euthanasia at the age of 55–60. I mean, they, much like an illegal alien, just mooch, right?

~

@asmonet I question it as well, but I spoke to the girl that evening. That was a little over a year ago and nothing ever came of it.
I realize this is not happening everyday, everywhere, but why would an officer even have the right to do that?

@asmonet I can see that, too. Good call. I’ll just say my piece and move on.
Allowing illegals aliens to get away from being deported because it’s too much of a hassle to go through the process is not helping. The cops in that situation were wrong. It’s their job to see a crime and enforce the law.

With all the talk about the illegals lately, made me recall this event. More to the point, I am concerned with what the officer did, and had no consequences.

Illegal in the US, does that mean that someone is there illegal or they are in the process of getting (or not) a permit to be legal?
If the latter, maybe the one thing (causing the accident) isn’t reason enough to deport them.
The permit-process and the traffic thing are maybe two different legal matters.

With the example given it is ridiculous he was not arrested when he was driving drunk and had no license to drive! What does that have to do with being an illegal alien, there is more than one law being broken. I want criminals to be arrested. I want illegal aliens to be handled by INS/ICE. If an illegal alien breaks the law then when it goes to trial I am all for brining in the authorities responsible for deportation. I am not ok with police officers being responsible for immigration issues, becuase I do not want illegal aliens to fear the police, I want the to be able to call the police if something bad is going on in their neighborhood, or if they witness a crime.

@rebbel I don’t know, I was not privy to that information. I have a feeling some people here think I am talking about our border friends. Don’t assume anything. I did not state that. All I said was he was here illegally. This whole thing was handled badly. He was not arrested, but his friend came and picked him up. The girls father tried to find this person, to initiate a lawsuit, but to no avail. He could not be found.

it sounds like the cop was an idiot. it doesn’t matter if you are a citizen or not, if you get arrested you can only get out on bail… what does that even mean to say “he would just be out in the morning”

Illegal or not, last I checked DUI and not having a license/insurance were crimes. Arrest them and charge them as you would anyone else.

your friend probably should have just gone to the local news station. they would have eaten that story up and done all the investigative journalism stuff and the police department/city would have at least had to admit they did something wrong or whatever…

This really has nothing to do with this man being an alien. It was a lack of proper procedure from the cops. It could have happened with any criminal. So I don’t know why you’re making it about him being an illegal.
But regardless, yes, in this situation it’s unfair.

Yes, arrest them like anyone else. But, that is not what happened. The officer told my friend, There isn’t much we can do, I see this all the time. And that was that. Her father didn’t leave it at that though. He tried everything to get something done.
He went the the Chief of Police and somewhere along the line some of the information given him was not the same. There was no ticket, so no names were available. @alive That would have been a great thing to do. But he didn’t.

@squidcake The officer made it about him being an illegal, not me. The officer said, he is an illegal doing such and such work, and it would serve no purpose to arrest him. Nothing would happen, I see this kind of stuff all the time.

@squidcake Can you imagine any officer in this entire country letting you off from something like that? I can’t. Then why did this happen. What could be the reason other than he is a terrible officer, making judgment calls where he shouldn’t.

@Rangie
I don’t know about others here, but i was not assuming anything.
I just sincerely wanted to know what the term illegal holds in in the USA.
I agree with those who state that no matter your status, legal or illegal, a crime is a crime and therefore should be handled likewise.

@rebbel I was not directing that to you. I was directing it to my very first answer. Saying he sees this question going to go down a bad road. I don’t know why he thinks that.

@rebbel Here illegal means no papers to be in the US. If a person has filed and is waiting for papers they are legal. There are some people who are here on tourist visas, so legal to be in the country, but do not have status to work, those people would be working illegally. The same person might stay in the country past the time of their tourist visa expiring, and then they have become illegal by overstaying.

@Rangie
That is clear, thanks.

@JLeslie
That makes sense to me, i understand it.
Thank you.

@rebbel Since we border a third world country and basically continent (if you count Latin America as a separate continent from north America) we have people running across the border all of the time, and so we have many illegal aliens in our country who come in that way who never had legal status at all.

Rich people love hiring illegal immigrants because they’re cheap. Where’s the scorn for the rich people who make being an illegal immigrant profitable and desirable?

Without demand, there’s no supply.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction.

@Captain_Fantasy That is a fact. But, those rich people should be put in jail because they are doing something illegal, which in my opinion is a whole lot worse than the illegals are doing. It is a type of slavery and therefore illegal, immoral, inhuman. Lock them up.

@Captain_Fantasy Personally, I don’t support those rich people. I grow my own food in my backyard, and share with my neighbors. There is always more to harvest than one family can eat.

I don’t think the situation you described is limited to illegal aliens. It happens to lots of people. I just read about a man who was arrested for his 7th DUI and they are ‘thinking’ about putting him in jail this time.

Of course people who were able to come to the US by simply filling out a form a stepping off a boat are going to point the finger at those who don’t have it anywhere near that easy and say “You are here illegally”. If it were as easy for them to gain citizenship as it was for you and your family there wouldn’t be one person living in the US without citizenship that wanted it. Sadly, those who speak out against people trying to emigrate to America are of European decent (white people) who have themselves emigrated, or are the descendants of those who emigrated to America long ago (often brutally). Therefore, to speak ill of someone trying to gain citizenship and employment in a country seems to be a clear cut case of hypocrisy and “double-dealing”

@YARNLADY That is interesting to know. I don’t know of any situation like that. Way back in the days when I use to smoke, I was driving and lite a cigarette, and threw the burnt match out the window. I was stopped by an officer that was in my blind spot, and he gave me a very long lecture. I can’t begin to imagine getting away with a DUI.

@MichaelRichard Personally, I am all in favor of giving people a path to citizenship.

@MichaelRichard to speak ill of someone trying to gain citizenship and employment in a country seems to be a clear cut case of hypocrisy and “double-dealing”
What are you talking about. Are you sure you are on the right thread?
I am asking if there seems to be two standards for legal and illegal.

@rangie is your query “Illegal Alien vs Citizen, does that mean anything in the the US anymore?”

@JLeslie This isn’t about a path to citizenship. Why are you trying to change the question?

@MichaelRichard Yes that is the question, however you need to read the details. Are there different laws for citizens than for illegal aliens?

@Rangie as @YARNLADY pointed out with her comment, the answer is “no”. in fact, this question seems to have very little to do with the person’s legal status, but more to do with police misconduct.

@Rangie Throwing rich people in jail for hiring illegal immigrants?
Why are you so rabid about this issue? Is it a FOXNews/Glenn Beck thing?

Unsolicited personal advice here:
People give you a hard time because you’re being mean to them because they disagree with you, which by the way they’re allowed to do.

If you backed off just a little from you’re “You disagree therefore you’re an idiot” stance and I guarantee you that subsequent communications here will be less contentious.

Dude, just move to Arizona and get over it.

[mod says] Please refrain from personal attacks. They will be removed.

I just need some clarification:
What does this question have to do with illegal aliens? Just because the man who was drunk, driving with out a license crashed into your friends car happened to be an illegal? That could have been anyone and the police probably would have handled it the same way if they did it with him. If you’re saying he sees “this” all the time (this being incidents like this one) how do you know he’s not talking about DUIs/crashes in general, and not just illegals getting drunk and hitting others?

the term “illegal immigrant” is itself a fallacy. Years ago, many European peoples emigrated to what is now known as the United States of America. After a long and savage genocide of the native peoples of this land, these young immigrants set up a government n this new country. This government took the platform that all men are created equal and all who wish to live in this country are welcome. If a new group wishing to emigrate to this country kills off the current inhabitants of this country and sets up yet another government, they should probably clarify their policies on how immigration and citizenship are handled.

@Captain_Fantasy I am trying to get some understanding as to why something like this can happen. No matter what or how I say it, somebody comes in and slaps me down. They are the one’s that are insulting an mean. Like hey dude, just move to Az and get over it. To me that is the statement of an individual that is not really paying any attention.
You ask why arrest the Rich. Because I am trying to show you I am not on just one side only, like you accuse me of doing with your remark about Fox news or Glen Beck stuff. Right is right. nobody should be taking advantage of people just because they can. The illegals are trying to feed their families, that’s all. The rich have no right to use them like they do. There are two side to every issue. I am not so stuck in a rut that I can’t see or listen to both sides. But instead I get crap from people that don’t care about anyone but themselves making a wisecrack.

@chels
Why would he even mention the fact that the person was an illegal?

@Rangie Forgive me but I’m a bit confused. You say.. ”There was no ticket, so no names were available.” Regardless if there is a ticket or not names are taken down for other purposes, this did not happen?
Also, even if the police officer did make a statement about the man being illegal and such, who is to say that this doesn’t happen on a daily basis with U.S. citizens? Maybe it’s just because this type of thing happened to your friend and the man happened to be illegal but hypothetically if it hadn’t, would you still feel that “Illegal Alien vs. Citizen” doesn’t mean anything?

Looks like I was right.

@chels I will try to answer in order. No ticket, no names. My friend lived right next door and we saw her that same evening. I have never know her to lie.
The officer didn’t say “this doesn’t happen on a daily basis” he said, “he sees this all the time”
Hypothetically, if this hadn’t happened to my friend, and I heard about her being on the losing end of it, for about 1 year, your answer would be no.
I have not been privy to this type of thing before. But the officer said it happens all the time. Just wondering if any of you came across it, or anything resembling unequal law enforcement.

@Rangie Okay! Thanks for clarifying!

@Rangie I was just responding to @MichaelRichard he brought it up. Sorry. Since I had explained that people run across the border, I did no want it to sound like I wanted to ship out all of the people who are illegal.

So, apparently I am the only one that has run into this type of thing. well, that is okay with me. I would not like to think it is going on all the time.
Thanks for the bruises guys.

@eponymoushipster i see. i am also new here and i mistook your first post to this question, i didn’t recognize the tilde. i thought the comment was bigoted and kinda pissy and i was gonna call you out as extremely narrow-minded. now that i know what it means its actually quite clever. i too was thinking of a way to show the inherent flaws in the question itself, or at least lend some perspective to the interrogator.
cheers.

In this case, I don’t think the police’s actions speak for the majority of drunk driving incidents in which an illegal immigrant is involved. I have never heard of anyone, legal citizen or illegal immigrant, being let off the hook after causing damage and injury to another person while drunk driving. I think the police were seriously in the wrong not to arrest this person and pursue charges.

How this demonstrates that there is no longer a distinction between legal and illegal status, I do not know.

[Mod says:] Off topic comments and personal attacks have been removed. Please stick to the topic at hand.

answer…the cop was wrong in not arresting the illegal alien and was lazy .

also…....the cop was right in regards to action taken againt said illegal alien if he DID arrest him. by the way ..he actually would only be detaining the alien for ins agents.

thirdly…...we as a nation cannot call anyone an ILLEGAL alien if that same nation puts those same aliens to work doing jobs that LEGAL citizens think is below them. if they came here strictly for welfare that would be a different story. but since so many legal citizens are on welfare ,the illegal aliens are forced to work to get any money.

@stallion44107 There are many citizens on welfare, that is true. Some legitimate, some not. There are also non-citizens on welfare, none of which should be, in my opinion.
But back to the Q. Don’t you find something wrong with your statement, even though you are probably right? He should have been arrested, and if nothing else, have to do community work. That wouldn’t have helped my friend, but it also wouldn’t have enabled this person to wildly run around without consequences.
I am sorry, but I have to disagree with your last statement. illegal aliens are not forced to work to get money in this country, because they are not suppose to be here anyway. And most or a great majority do not pay taxes, but get benefits. And can do things like he did to my friend and no accounting. I just don’t get it.

well how to answer you…
i live in upper northwestern ohio. lots of farming,and vinyards. my wife is a reg. nurse at our local hospital. they are constantly treating illegal aliens free of charge that work these farms.
is that fair to the taxpayer? absolutely not. will those same taxpayers do the work the illegals do? again,absolutely not.
so unless the U.S. government completely seals the borders of canada and mexico,and then issues work permits to aliens that have a time limit ,( like they do for foreign actors ,for example) then what do you suggest be done?

and the remark about illegal aliens being forced to work to make money was said tongue in cheek to make a point of how so many legal citizens bilk taxpayers by collecting welfare illegaly.

@stallion44107 I understand what you are saying completely, and it is a dilemma. I am in California, not far from the border, also in farmland. The illegal aliens are also treated in the hospitals free of charge. Not fair to the taxpayer. Those same taxpayers probably will not do the same work as the illegals, because they apparently have a better paying job. However, the citizens receiving welfare and all the benefits for free, would do that work the illegals do, if they wanted to eat, and dress themselves.
And you last tongue in cheek remark, well, I too am new around here and I don’t know when someone is being serious or not. I can’t see their face or body language, or voice to figure that out yet.
I really like talking to someone that actually makes sense, and considers the issue something to think about. Thanks.

Actually, those welfare “mopes” wouldn’t be able to the work, because if the illegal aliens weren’t able to do the work, the corporation that was hiring them to pick oranges for orange juice would find cheap labor in, oh, Guatemala.

And it’s not like the corporation is totally to blame, either, since the corporation is merely responding to market pressures, because you, the consumer, don’t want to pay more for for your orange juice at the supermarket.

it’s orange juice. not gold juice. how much are YOU willing to pay for it. i’ll pay what i need too pay,as long as i make enough money to do so. but if our jobs go to mexico because they pay less wages,and mexican workers come here and keep our wages lower then who is going to buy the orange juice? the guatemalan?

Yes I have seen the cops let people go instead of filing an official report on crimes. In all instances I witnessed the person let go was white and American born.

@escapedone7 Okay, so this is an officer issue, not illegal vs legal. Glad to hear that on one hand, but not on the other. Don’t like to see people causing harm to others, and not being held accountable. Thanks, that helps to clear things up for me.

@Rangie Well, i have witnessed a very different cross-section than the one you are reporting: “illegal aliens are not forced to work to get money in this country, because they are not suppose to be here anyway. And most or a great majority do not pay taxes, but get benefits” i have seen nothing of the sort. I have come to know personally a great many people who have come to take up residence in this country; some from Mexico and Central America, many from Poland and the rest of Europe, Asia, Africa etc. People from all over the world move to America because they, like you, do not agree with the policies, legislation, and and agenda of their government. Major cities tend to be an easier fit for these asylum-seekers mostly due to their poor reception in rural America. Many rural caucasians take the same view that you project of “you shouldn’t be here, you are hurting the country!”, so i don’t blame them. i have lived in the city of Chicago my entire life, and of all the transposed citizens i’ve come to know and work with, none have failed to show a “PIN” card. A Personal Identification Number is a temporary SSN to be used until citizenship can be attained. Without a SSN or a PIN, you cannot receive any support from governmental services, you can’t even setup an appointment at a state-run free clinic. This myth about immigrants flooding the country only to avoid paying taxes and rip off public aid is closed-minded and hateful. so here it is: if you have a PIN, you pay taxes. if you don’t have a PIN or SSN you get nothing, regardless of what country you’re from.

@MichaelRichard well, you don’t know the same people that I do. I have a friend that is a citizen. She is from Vietnam and her father came here, got his citizenship, and started drawing SS. He gets the most you can get, but he never worked a single day here in the USA. I worked all my live here and still don’t get what he gets, because we were in business for ourselves and we had deductions to run the business. They figure your SS on net income. We had some years like some farmers, where we did a little better than breaking even. Still worked our butts off. Mr. Vietnam, did nothing, but he is completely covered.
My neighbors housekeeper is a non-citizen. She has a SS card. She does not pay taxes, as she gets paid all cash. She gets medical benefits. I love this girl like a daughter, but the law is the law. This girl works very hard and lives with her son, who is a citizen. She sends 99% of her earnings home to Mexico to help feed her family. She hasn’t been able to see her daughter or parents for 10 years. If we had a guest worker program, and these people were paid prevailing wages, I for one would feel a lot better, and I am sure she would too.

@Rangie What you fail to take into consideration is that enforcement in every area, including the situation you recited, depends entirely on the individual who is charged with the responsibility. There are good police officers, and the other kind.

@YARNLADY Thank you.

@Rangie interesting, but that is two people. i have met literally hundreds of people who weren’t born in this country, and of the people i’ve met, 90-something percent pay taxes. i have seen their W2s and they pay out roughly the same amount i do. i speak spanish and am a most friendly guy which has led me to meet and get to know many of the people i have worked with and otherwise met of the spanish speaking population. it’s very sad that so many of them are working hard and going about things the right way but are basically being called lazy cheats and told to go back to their country, usually by white people! White people are of European descent and Mexican/Central Americans are descendants of Native American tribes. From the top of Canada to the bottom of Peru lived lived the dark-skinned indigenous peoples of this land, caucasians weren’t present till European settlers began to colonize. It’s horrible to see us, the welcomed guests, telling the native peoples of this land that they don’t belong. i think we’ve done enough. go home indeed!

@MichaelRichard You have a long memory. If you want to go back far enough, everybody that’s ever been here is a foreigner. Why stop with the Native Americans? Does your identification with the population of that long ago era mean that I as a southerner should identify with southerners of the Civil War period and those horrible yankees that took our nation away? Please!! Time passes on. We are not time travelers. We live with the hand we were dealt in the here and now.

@plethora Three or four generations is not very long time, relatively. And you are referring to the American Civil War, which was not an invading force bringing genocide, the focus of that war was to end the depraved and despicable practice of slavery. The American military got involved in world wars 1 and 2 (and others) for similar reasons. If you sir or madam choose to align yourself with the confederate army and their practices and beliefs, i’m going to have to disagree with you and say that i’m glad slavery was abolished in this country.
Besides, we have to know where we came from to understand where we are and where we can go.

@MichaelRichard You show little understanding of the American Civil War. but that is neither here nor there. My point is that if you make a ridiculous identification with a people of hundreds of years ago as if it were “their land, why not go back to whose land it was before they “invaded”. They were not born here. They came from another land. There is hardly a nation that has ever existed that has not been conquered by another nation. It’s called life. We play the hand we’re dealt, and hopefully we don’t go whining about prior nations and all their purity that we somehow destroyed. We could just assign the term bullshit to that whole line of thought.

If you are arguing that slavery was not a major point of contention in the American Civil War, i don’t know what to tell you. i would love to hear your version of what happened.
As far as my “ridiculous identification” with this situation, i believe that our identity is strongly tied into the nation in which we live. And being a white male in this country carries certain baggage with it, namely “being a member of the group that did what it did” Much of the caucasian population of the US actually descends from those same people and does shoulder some of the blame whether they deserve it or not.
@plethora please do not put me down just because you don’t agree with me, that is unwarranted.

No offense…sorry. I carry no baggage whatsoever in regard to actions by people who lived hundreds of years before me and can’t even wrap my arms around the concept.

As for the Civil War, I have minimal interest in it. I, personally, would never have owned a slave. I can only be accountable for me. I would note however that that the slavery issue was the excuse for the Civil War and there were numerous other issues that brought it about. But, again, who cares. I can only be responsible (carry baggage) for my own deeds.

@Rangie I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. A vietnamese man you know who came here, never worked a day in his life in America, gets social security? That cannot be. If you are 6th generation American born here you cannot get social security until you have paid in 40 quarters.

@JLeslie This is what his daughter told us. She owns a restaurant, where we use to go all the time. We asked her how that could be, she just said, I don’t know, but he gets it. I really wanted to check it out, but I don’t know their last name. I thought the same way you do, but unless she is telling us a story, that is what is happening with her dad. My husband and I discussed this at length, and finally came to the conclusion that because they were vietnamese they had special services. I also hear they recieved small plot of land. I don’t know how true that is. I do know they are great farmers.

@JLeslie—There are many different programs that are lumped by most people under the name of Social Security because they are all administered by the Social Security Administration. Here is one article that tells a little about the Vietnamese.

@YARNLADY @Rangie I see. It is not SS like old age SS, it is a different category under the same umbrella. Being a refugee makes the person a differet case. I am probably ok with that. But, the Vietnamese person was brought here because of his daughter it sounds like, so that is actually an odd circumstance, similar to being from a country we would not give asylum to, but I don’t know how we, the US could really differentiate. And, maybe the help should not be unending? The article mentiones learning English, and I do believe if you are a certain age you do no have to speak English to take the citizen test and oath, which is how it should be in my opinion. I am talking in circles I realize, I wonder if that applies to Cubans? I can tell you it does not apply to Mexican, if that makes you feel any better @Rangie. My father-in-law is Mexican and we are desperately waiting for him to fulfill the requirement so he can rest. He is 70 and works 6 days a week. I think he is still 2 years short. I am going to check on it when I see him soon.

People who come from countries we give asylum to fall into a whole different category. That’s why I kind of laugh when they talk about FL in terms of immigration. Most of the Hispanics are Cuban and they can stay legally as long as they make it to our shores, it is nothing like coming from Mexico or parts of Latin America.

@JLeslie I wonder why that is. What is the difference in stepping on our soil from a boat or from an adjoining piece of land. There are many things going on that I do not understand. Good luck with your father. He does deserve to rest and enjoy life.

@Rangie Because it is different to be leaving your country to save your life because the government is oppressive or directly in conflict with what the US believes is ok. So communists have been able to find asylum, political asylum, in our country, and I guess we give it for other reasons also. Mexico is a democracy, so we treat them differently. Believe me Mexicans think it is wholly unfair. And, many Americans who liv ein areas like Miami are annoyed that many Cubans seem ungrateful and continue to be pissed at the US government when we have taken them in.

Interesting that the refugees mentioned in the article are required to become citizens within a certain time frame. I guess to show their allegiance. I know people who have been green cards for 30 and 40 years, probably longer, but they are not here under asylum.

@JLeslie It is all very interesting isn’t it. No wonder we hear so many conflicting stories. But, when you hear it from the horses mouth, you tend to believe it. I use to live in Fresno, California. There are a lot of different issues going on in that mix of a community. So we hear all sorts of things.