What do you think of going on a barter system with goods for services and visa versa?
Asked by
Rangie (
3667
)
April 30th, 2010
I have a backhoe and my neighbor need a trench dug. He grows food in his yard. Why shouldn’t we trade? Why couldn’t we do that with most things in this country.
Observing members:
0
Composing members:
0
41 Answers
I think trading is a great idea. Are there any laws prohibiting us from doing this?
I guess we don’t because it is easier to carry 20 dollars to the store to buy a t-shirt than to carry a couple of chickens. :-0
The system of trading completely relies on how much the other person wants your stuff.
If I raise chickens, and I want some coconuts with my dinner tonight, then I have to do one of two things:
1) hope that the local coconut farmer wants my chickens
2) go all around town trading away my chickens for things that the coconut farmer wants.
With currency, it’s simple. Everyone wants dollars, because they’re so easily exchanged for things you want. You don’t have to worry if the coconut farmer wants your dollars, you know that he does.
How many goats for a car? the streets would be filled with animals and their excrements. I do not know about you, but I am not keen on reviving the dark ages.
The barter system is not dead. It’s not used so much anymore, but there’s plenty of trading going on today.
I’ll do your laundry and wash your dishes if you’ll do my cooking tonight?
@artemis5200 No laws prohibiting it. However, when there is not a fair trade there could be tax implications.
@thriftymaid good to know.
I gave a back rub to my boyfriend for his service in replacing my garbage disposal. I wonder if that was a fair trade LOL
@artemis5200 I wouldn’t worry about that one. Trading cars and real estate seem to be where you can get into trouble.
Count me in. I’d happily give up my money to live on a barter system.
I think there are a great many things that we can do within our communities, that would make life better for many people. I am not saying we wouldn’t need purchase power, but it just makes sense to me.
I do a lot of trading. Sometimes you have to cook the books a little. For example, I “gave” my carpenter a (very old) car (“sold” “for $1” according to the DMV) in exchange not for x hours of work – I pay him for work – but for always being available even when he’s in the middle of another job, to either get over here immediately or give me some good advice over the phone. It hasn’t been onerous, I don’t abuse it. And I needed to get rid of the car, I couldn’t take care of it, it was inherited.
He did a lot of work on it and gets 39mpg dammit all to hell.
You can trade. But even if you barter, technically it has to be taxed. Just sayin’.
@JLeslie what’s the difference. trade, exchange, barter.
Of course you can trade among your friends and such, but I don’t see this working as a system. No one will be able to agree on how much something is worth. I want an iPod and I’m willing to trade a CD for it, but then that person thinks it’s worth more than that and wants 5 CDs. Pretty soon you’re just back to a system of currency again. It always leads in that direction.
Sometimes it’s easy to make a fair trade and it works for some things. But it wouldn’t work for everything and it couldn’t be the basis of an economic system. It would eventually revert to currency again. That’s just how I view it. :\
@Rangie Is this the same neighbor who wants you to cut down your oak tree? Barter is a great system, but I wouldn’t trust him out of my sight.
The barter system is great in a small scale but it simply does not and cannot work without seriously fucking up the larger economies of states, countries, and the world.
@Trillian hehe, no. but as for the beautiful dead oak tree. Well here is an update. It could not be saved. However, the man behind us did pay half of the cost to remove it. Apparently there were some dangerous big branches, and I do have grandchildren that visit. I promise I will plant a new tree. :(
How would one go about informing people of this possibility?
Some people just love to make things hard on themselves. I’ll stick with money. It’s so much simpler.
@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard I think you are underestimating the system. Indigenous people used it for hundreds of years and contrary to popular stereotype they had quite complex societies.
@wundayatta Are you saying if you needed your windows cleaned and were unable to do it yourself, and you and say a vacuum that you were going to sell. Your neighbor needed a vacuum. That you would just sell the vacuum and pay somebody to clean your windows?
Like others have said, the primary problem is the need for a double coincidence of wants: you both better have what the other person wants. There are other reasons that an intermediary good such as paper currency is better than trading with something like tomatoes or whatever product you have:
1. Fungible
2. Long lasting
3. Easy to transport
4. Divisible
@Rangie Well, if it were easy, I’d do it that way. But usually it’s not that easy. I’m not going to canvass the neighborhood to see if anyone will trade window cleaning for a vacuum. The only time I would barter is if the trade practically fell into my lap.
I think you can go online and semi-barter on Craigslist. You can list items for sale, and people can find them privately. I’ve never been able to sell anything there, though. I have a much easier time taking it to the local thrift store. Once I randomly asked someone on the street if they wanted a bed I was throwing out. They turned out to be members of a church that needed beds for a shelter they ran. They came and dragged the thing out and I didn’t have to lift a finger.
But noone wanted the futon couch. So, we called the furniture donation place and they came and carted it off.
@wundayatta Why not use this in your own community? Every supermarket I know has a bulletin board where people can post things. They could have a trade section. How hard can that be? Some people can’t afford the thrift store, but they can wash windows, cut the grass, iron some clothes, I believe everybody has something to offer.
Many people have a sense of pride an would rather not have a handout. But at the same time are needy. Well it was just a thought.
Governments oppose such transactions because exchange of goods and services frequently circumvent sales and income taxes. Since not monetary transactions are involved, they are revenue neutral and do not attract taxes like retail transactions and hired contractor agreements do.
There are so many different commodities in demand and available. It is difficult to match up those who can provide a product or service with someone who wants it and has something to offer that the other party needs at that time.
The use of currency makes these transactions easier but does not prevent unfair or unreasonable trading practices.
This is very common within in many communities. It becomes more common in tight economic climates, such as the depression we are currently experiencing.
I agree that it’s not a feasible system for all exchange – the example of hundreds of truckloads of ripe tomatoes seems poignant – but it can certainly be done on a kind of opportunistic basis. To make it work, you have to enjoy a kind of general-store sitting-around-jawing kind of life, because that’s when you find people who are interested in stuff you’re trying to get rid of . Sometimes that means you have to store it for awhile….
@Rangie Why not do your suggestion? It sounds too much like hard work. I just want to drop stuff off and be done with it. I don’t want to have to hold onto it while someone may or may not call me. I don’t want to go post things at the local supermarket because I never set foot in those places. I go to store further away, and it’s not the kind of store that has those bulletin boards. Of if it is, I don’t know because I never look. Like I say, too much hard work. I have little enough time in my life. To take away more… and for what?
And in any case, if you can’t afford the local thrift store it probably means you are homeless. I think they charge just enough to cover the costs of organizing the material and sell it.
@wundayatta Excuse me, are you suggesting that I am the person in need? I am trying to figure out a way to help those in need without feeling like they are getting a handout. You people talk but don’t walk the walk. Oh yes “I am liberal and I think everyone should be equal and deserve what everyone else has” Don’t just prattle, do something, or at least try. Don’t just sit there and tell the whole world you are a selfish, self-centered person.
@Rangie Ummm, so I should just toss stuff in the garbage? When did I ever say I was dying to get into the thrift business? I don’t recall saying everyone should be equal (whatever that means). Sorry. I do my good work in other ways. I rarely discuss it. It’s not relevant to anyone else. You have no idea what you are talking about. None, whatsoever.
And I am happy to tell people I am selfish and self-centered. I’ve written it all over the place here. Just because I say it doesn’t mean you would think that if you saw what I did. I happen to believe that helping others is the height of selfishness.
No, I wasn’t suggesting you were in need. I use “you” when I mean “one” or “people.” Sorry for any confusion. I was not talking to you, personally.
@wundayatta I felt you were leaning on me, so I became defensive. Sorry for the shot. It is just that I hear from some on this forum make claims to be of a certain mind set and then come out with opposite remarks. I am not saying you did that, but there is so much hypocrisy on this forum.
@JLeslie perhaps the goods, But there is no tax on services. But those goods are personal, you should be able to trade anybody anything for them. Why not?
@Rangie It seems on the link there is tax on service if it relates to a business. Honestly, it is confusing to me reading the law regarding the issue.
@JLeslie I know if there is a car involved, there will be taxes. But, for small items, like household, yard items, things like that, I don’t think so. I would think it would be no different than having a yard sale, people don’t charge taxes there.
@Rangie There probably is some sort of threshold. Yard sale is probably a good analogy. Friendly help between neighbors is almost like a gift than a service in a way in my mind. I just remember the rule from accounting class 20 years ago. The link I provided says this “For example, an attorney represents a painter for nonpayment of business debts in exchange for painting the attorney’s law offices. The amount reportable by each on Form 1099-MISC is the fair market value of his or her own services performed. However, if the attorney represents the painter in a divorce proceeding, then there are two types of expenses involved in this transaction, painting the office is a business expense for the attorney but the divorce expenses are personal expenses for the painter.The requirement to report barter payments only applies to payments made in the course of a trade or business, Therefore, the attorney must report on Form 1099-MISC the value of the painting services because painting the law office is an activity that is related to the attorney’s trade or business. But the painter need not send a Form 1099-MISC to the attorney reporting the value of painting the law offices, because the work is in exchange for divorce legal services that are personal expenses and separate from the painter’s business. ”
@JLeslie Thanks so much, I will have to investigate further before I do anything. Don’t want to upset the apple cart.:)
@Rangie I’m not trying to lecture :) just to inform. I’m sure stuff goes on all of the time that possibly is technically taxable that isn’t reported.
@JLeslie oh, never thought you were. I truly appreciate your input and your taking the time. :o)
This was relatively successful in East Germany from 1949 – 1989.
Answer this question 
Composing members:
0
