How do I handle the first real "difference" between my SO and I in our relationship?

Generally the impulsive, or “cluttered” or “sloppy” person in a relationship feels badly because he or she knows that our culture values neatness more, and identifies sloppiness with control issues and will-power issues.

If you really accept your partner’s eccentricity, and if you discuss openly the fact that you must be allowed to continue to maintain a sanctuary, and if you can tolerate the clutter, you guys will be fine.

If you start to become critical of him, and think you can “fix” him, the prognosis is nowhere near as good.

You will have a struggle on your hands with this on your hands. You will have to discuss some sort of compromise or offer to have him try to live the way you think your house should be kept for a trial period and that way you two can see if that is even doable.

Otherwise I could not agree more with what @dpworkin said.

I had this issue in a past relationship. I’m a cluttered person, she was overly organized. I drove her crazy, she drove me crazy with the nagging and harping on me for being cluttered.

You say you have a sanctuary.. my solution, had we stayed together, was to have a clutter sanctuary of my own. Maybe let him have one room he can clutter up and have as he pleases?

I don’t see this as a red flag at all. No matter how suited we are to our partners we can’t be identical, that would be boring. Having a sanctuary (each) is a great idea and when you do get a house together then maybe this should be taken into consideration. You have one room each where you can be as messy/neat as you like but the rest of the house needs to meet somewhere in the middle. If yoou love each other like you say you do then there is no reason why you can’t, both, compromise.

@dpworkin : Thank you for your terrific answer! You helped me look at it from a different point of view. I feel less suffocated now and have some things to think about :)

@Cruiser : that’s a great idea! a “trial period” of sorts :D

Already I feel like I have a more constructed and understanding way to go about talking to him about this :)

I agree with @dpworkin that if you are going to be critical of him and want to change him the future will be difficult.

When you tell him that the cutter bothers you, does he want to change his clutter habits, or does he think you are just being too much of a neatnick? Is understanding of how you feel? Or, does he belittle you? How you handle disagreements like this is the flag, red or green. His attitude, and yours for that matter, on having an open ear and heart to what is important to your SO and how you work through differences.

Honestly, I think this is a big deal, differences in how you want the house kept. This is where you live, should be your sanctuary. Judge Judy has said that if something bugs you about your SO, don’t let people tell you it shouldn’t matter, because after years with that person it will just get worse and worse; I agree.

My husband is neater than I am, and it bugs him when I have some piles of paper around, it is a source of stress for us, although neither of us is too the extreme so it is not a constant problem. I clean up a little more than I would if I lived alone, because I know it bothers him.

@MissAnthrope : That’s an intriguing idea, I know that I would much rather him have one messy room then me have one neat room.. I mean I’m embarrassed to have anyone over, let alone my own parents!

@Leanne1986 : Compromise, this is what I was leaning towards. We need to compromise, but the house needs to be in a orderly enough way that we can have visitors and not worry about health risks.

@ElleBee Oh yes, I agree that if there are health risks linked to his messyness then maybe he needs to compromise a little more than you do.

I don’t see this as a “red flag” in terms of ending the relationship but it is an issue to be worked out. My partner and I each have areas of the house that are our own and that we keep as we see fit. I think it is important to each have “a room of your own” but I think you will need to work out a compromise on how cluttered or neat the shared rooms are kept. @dpworkin is exactly right that once one person approaches a relationship issue from the “higher moral ground” he or she is doomed to hurt the relationship, but there can be a discussion of mutual needs and accomodations.

@JLeslie : He always says he will get to it. I offer to help if he wants. Something always comes up that is “more important”. I feel that it might be a case of him being overwhelmed.. He likes that I know what I like but just assumes I’ll get over it I guess. We have never had a disagreement, so I’m not sure how we would handle them :\ Any tiff we have experienced is always resolved ASAP and never held onto. It’s a big deal to me because I can’t stand unnecessary stress, clutter and junk everywhere I turn makes my chest tight. Because I have never been in a house that has had this kind of issue it’s new to me and quite frankly I really don’t like it at all… I feel suffocated just thinking about it…

I agree with most of the respondents so far: It’s not a huge issue in and of itself, and it’s not too difficult to work around. And what’s more important is “how you resolve such issues”, especially at high-stress times (like when you’re having people over—does the house have to be extra-neat all around then, or is “daily appearance” okay?)—and how often are you going to live in the ‘high-stress’ mode?

I think that it’s important to establish “spheres of influence”. Not to be sexist about this, but it’s common for a female to be in charge of the kitchen, the male to be in charge of the garage, workshop, and outside the home. Bedrooms and bathrooms you need to set a standard that you can both live with and maintain (without you having to pick up after him daily, which would get old, fast, and without him feeling that he can’t make a move or live there comfortably).

With my wife and me, the kitchen was (one of) her domains, for example, but I took over the fridge. I am the messy one, but she inherited a trait from her mother of packing the refrigerator as if it were a shipping container—packed full and tight. So I would be the one to rearrange, toss out, use up, etc. so that we didn’t bury ourselves in leftovers and little containers that never came out again. (It wasn’t our differences in mess-tolerance that drove us apart, but her ‘nagging’—and my eventual refusal to listen to that—were factors.)

@Leanne1986 : Yah finding an old mouse nest in a long forgotten rollerblade still in the box FULL of mouse poop, or a colony of mold in the coffee filter are just a couple of examples…

@ElleBee embarrassed to have anyone over. I have no idea how bad his clutter really is, but I grew up in a messy house and I would try to clean up before friends came over. My sister hates my father for having been such a slob, because of the shame she had about it. I won’t get into the whole dynamic in my family, but I will put this thought in your head…if you plan on having children someday, will they be growing up in a home you are happy with? I married my husband because I knew he was the father I would want for my children. If you will never have children then maybe this does not matter.

It sounds like it is quite an important issue to you and one that you do need to deal with. Maybe he can go along with the idea of certain areas that are his, and common areas that are kept cleaner?

The hardest part right now is that it’s not just me dealing with his clutter and mess, it’s him AND our roommate, she is worse then him even… They both have lived in this house for 5 years prior to me moving in. When I moved in he said that he would clean up, because he knows how I am, so i moved in and nothing has changed.. He has told me that he likes organization and neatness, but I think it has gotten to such a HUGE state of disaster that he’s just to lazy now, or overwhelmed…

I have a question…does he expect you to keep things clean, to clean up after him? Or, does that have nothing to do with it? He just doesn’t mind the mess?

@ElleBee Ewwwww. Clutter is one thing but mouse poop? I am a messy madam, there are clothes everywhere, books lying around and papers/letters on any available surface. However, I can’t stand leftover food or real dirt lying around and clean plates and surfaces to makes sure that bugs and critters won’t be tempted in by food smells. This is something he (and his roomie) needs to change as mouse poo does come with heath risks.

@JLeslie : No, he doesn’t expect me to clean up after him, he just accepts the house the way it is..

@Leanne1986 : Eww is right! And you are exactly right! It’s the compounding of everything, dogs coming in the house with muddy paws, food left out in the kitchen, god knows what growing in the fridge, piles of crap all over the place. I was worried enough about my Ball Python (He has special needs) that I crammed him into my “sanctuary” and got and air purifier right next to his tank…

Yeah, there’s definitely a difference between living cluttered and living dirty. The dirtiness needs to be addressed.

@ElleBee Most people are not lazy, but overwhelmed. They don’t know where to start or there is some emotional issue about getting rid of things and cleaning up. How about hire a professional organizer? I have done that twice and it is magical. He would have to be willing to work with her/him, it takes several hours usually per room. I think I paid around $60 an hour. It would not only clean up the place, but give him some skills about keeping it clean. If he is anything like the people in my family, he really and truly does not know where to start.

I suggest a housekeeper if you can afford one, so that you are not required to keep after his mess, but it won’t accumulate and start to disturb you.

I have to say the dirtyness would really bother me. I am not great at putting everything away, but I really care about things being clean. I always say I am messy but not dirty. If it does not bother him to see piles of things and is not concerned about germs and cleanliness, I think this might be a big hurdle, I really think there is some psychilogical stuff there. I am not being critical or demeaning, I mean to be empathetic.

@dpworkin housekeeper only works for the cleaning part, not the putting away part, although I agree that having a housekeeper would help once they can get a routine to put things away.

When I was able to afford a housekeeper I asked her to straighten out my clutter. I prefer to have a neat home, but I must accept that I am not good at it. When I grow up, I will have a housekeeper again. Thankfully, my SO is very forgiving, but she’s kind of messy too.

Is it possible to talk to them about your concerns and see if the three of you can commit to one day of serious cleaning to establish a baseline? If you can get the place really clean once every month or so, the clutter might be able to be acommodated or piled up in established places for it. I agree with @JLeslie that this is sounding like more of a serious problem.

My kids always complained that they had to “clean up” before the cleaning person came.

@JLeslie : He would never go for that sadly, I have even offered to pay for one. A housekeeper is not in our budget :(

I’m going to talk to him tonight, let him know my concerns. There are certain things I need in a home, and I feel like my needs are not outrageous. I’m gonna go insane if not…

@janbb : I think it is serious for them. At the same time it’s serious for me.. having talked to you all I’m realizing that this is a “deal-breaker” for me… It makes me kinda sad, but at least I know. I know that I need a neat and clean home, it’s very important to me and something that I feel has been and is a major part of my life.

I need to talk to him, it’s the only thing I can really do at this point..

@ElleBee Good luck with it and please report back to us. It might make a difference if the roommate weren’t in the picture too, but you will have a better idea after you speak to your SO about the issue.

Just do what my ex wife did to me, buy him a huge shed & move him out of the house with constant nagging, he’ll soon realise where he is better off! ;-) lol……he can take the room mate with him for company too…

My wife has an office where she is allowed to keep her clutter. If I see her crap laying around, I put it in her office. If she can’t find something, she knows where to look. If you don’t have a spare room then implement the shit box. Put all of the shit your SO leaves lying around into a box. It’s the same principle but on a smaller scale.

@ElleBee Good Luck. I know this must be very dificult for you to deal with. It does sound like he is not going to change if he is rejecting help from you (you mentioned offering to help him clean up and pay for an organizer) he seems unmotivated to change. If this is the first time you are going to have a serious talk about it, really tell him how much it bothers you, rather than it just being a complaint or request, maybe it will move him to make a change? I guess you will find out.

Thank you everyone for all your encouraging, kind and truly helpful words of wisdom :) I will sit down and talk with him tonight. Good or bad, I’ll let you all know how it goes.

@JLeslie See what I mean? “he seems unmotivated to change”? He gets the blame. He is what he is. I doubt he can change.

@dpworkin No, not blame. Maybe I worded it poorly. I am not judging. What I mean is he is happy with how it is, and she isn’t, that’s all. If she is unhappy living like that it is a problem, you said so yourself. I tend to be messy, but I prefer it neat, so I pay for organizers when it gets out of hand, or make a special effort to clean up even when I am not so inclined. If two people live in a messy home and are both happy that’s fine with me, no judgement, their life.

One problem that I see that I wanted to add to is this is his house so you have a huge uphill battle getting him to give up so much of what is “him” especially he decorating preference. Plus the filthy roomie only compounds your problem.

@JLeslie I hope I don’t sound contentious. It’s not my intent to argue with you, because actually I don’t think you’ve said anything wrong, it’s just that in discussing this, I don’t know how to make it clear that I desperately want to be neater, but I have just accepted that I am not going to be. Does that make sense? I imagine he would be very glad to be neat. He just isn’t. I’d also like to have broader shoulders and nice abs. I don’t think I’m going to.

@dpworkin I do not feel we are arguing, not to worry, this gives me a chance to clarify if I am being understood. I want to be neater also. But, do you get the feeling te OP’s SO does not care if he is neater? He seems to be fine with the mess. My father, who is borderline hoarder, does not see mess, is incensed that anyone would care or judge others on how neattheir home is, I could go on. The OP was the one who posted it might be a deal-breaker for her, that is up to her, how she wants to live.

I can look at a pile of folded laundry for days and not care if I put it away or not. If there is a pile of papers in my kitchen waiting to be addressed I don’t mind that either. My husband hates the piles. I feel like my house overall is neat, but my husband notices the one thing not put away. Mostly I move the piles of papers to my office (that is the room I every so often get an organizer to come in) and they are out of his sight. For some reason the laundry does not bother him that much thank goodness. If he would sit with me in my office for an hour a week, I would clean it up, but he refuses, so I have to pay someone every once in a while to be my friend, when it gets too out of control, while I do the chore I hate. I prefer to pay for that then for a housekeeper who cleans the bathrooms.

I guess I did not get the impression that he doesn’t care how the OP feels, just that he doesn’t mind clutter.

A lot of great advice in this thread. The only thing I could add is to try and find an organization method that works for everyone. It doesn’t sound so much like clutter- but more like garbage strewn about the place. That’s a health hazard and says that perhaps the SO and roommate don’t know how to be cleaner or don’t have a sense that the house is worth keeping clean.

Many people don’t bother to keep something clean that they see as a case too-far gone. I would suggest a purge day where all of you get trash bags and make three piles. One pile of garbage, one pile of donation/yardsale and one of keep. Once a house is clean it’s much easier to keep it that way, and to appreciate the value of the home itself.

Then figure out a system that works for everyone. Figure out where most of the clutter is, why it’s there and why people don’t move it. Is most of the clutter right by the door- things that one might need when it rains etc? Or is the clutter dishes and food stuffs that pile up when the kitchen gets dirty?

One way that worked for me and past roommates was a basket system. We had four people in the house and each person had a basket in the living room- all their stuff was placed in the basket and once it was full the basket was taken to their room and placed in the separate basket in their room. If their bedroom was filthy- and the door was able to be closed- then it was no longer anyone’s issue but their own.

Some people do much better keeping tidy if the house feels like a nice place to be. In the same house I mentioned before- we kept it much cleaner when we decorated and had it look nice. We put up real curtains, had matching furniture, a clear theme for each room and it really made us appreciate the room (and all the hard work it took us to make it so nice).

Some houses do well with rotating chores and others do better with one day when everyone cleans all at once. One person takes out trash, one vacuums while the other one dusts etc- until the house is clean. It’s a lot more fun to clean all together with some fun music than it is to do one chore alone after a long work day. Plus when everyone sees everyone else cleaning it can help eliminate some of the feelings that ‘so-and-so doesn’t do enough’.

@dpworkin I meant that he himself does not care to be neater, not that he does not care about her feelings. I was responding to you saying you want to be neater, I don’t think he wants to be neater, he may still be willing to do it for her. My father doesn’t see the mess, but he wants to fix it, because he knows it affects the people around him.

Yeah, I get it. I drive me crazy, but now instead of berating myself I am trying to learn to accept it, and to learn strategies to cope with it. I have three giant plastic bags next to me right now that I will soon be packing with detritus.

@dpworkin & @JLeslie I think you’re both right: he doesn’t mind the mess (as I don’t) and he doesn’t ‘care’ (if that’s the right word) enough about the OP’s feeling (if he’s like me, he can’t really understand the obsessive need to be so neat) and that comes across to her as “he doesn’t care”—I couldn’t live with someone like your husband, @JLeslie.

But it’s probably wrong to say “he can’t change”. I suspect that he’ll never “care” that much about a little bit of—or a lot of—“non-optimized organization”, but if she can communicate her absolute must-have items: no food debris left in living or sleeping areas, “her” things not left where they don’t belong, and no wet or dirty laundry left in various piles (plus whatever other things are real deal-breakers to her), then he can at least meet (or negotiate with) her criteria to make an arrangement that they can both live with.

Chill out. Before you marry just talk about it and come to some compromise about tidiness. You may need to always have your own room to keep just like you want, and he his.

@CyanoticWasp Thank goodness my husband is not OCD about it. He does have some specific things that really bug him, as you point out, so I try to keep that in order, although I do fall short. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 super neat and 10 super messy, he is a 3 and I am a 5, but he prefers a 1 I think. But, since he is not OCD enough to put all of his stuff away perfectly all of the time, I think he gives me some slack, and it is not a big source of strife. But, I get how the very messy people think, as you say you cannot understand the obsessive need to be so neat. What I have found is people’s definition of neat vary widely. My father thinks I am obsessively neat. Everything is relative I guess.

Is he a clutterbug or dirtybug? To me it makes a difference in tolerance and solution. A dirtybug who is lax with helping to clean, straighten up or keep garbage down can pay to bring in a cleaner once a month but a clutterbug who likes to collect stuff and insists everything is connected and needs to be left where it is, that person I don’t think I could live with long. I’ve lived in several longterm relationships and this was an important issue. Home is not supposed to a place of tension or irritation and loathing.

I would say that the issue is about compromise. He should honor your need to be tidy, because he cares about your feelings, and you should honor his need to be “cluttery”, because you care about his. If he honors your feelings and you honor his feelings, then it should work out. You should talk with him about these things that concern you. If he really loves you, he should listen and take your feelings into consideration.
All the best to you both.

If he is okay with you putting his stuff away, and you don’t mind picking up after him and your housemate, then that’s the compromise. However, you must approach it with the understanding that you cannot make him over. He will only change if he wants to change.

I work with someone in a similar situation. She does all the picking up, he takes care of the yard, cars, and pays for eating out. She really likes to clean. It got ugly for a bit when he couldn’t find where she put things, but she labeled where things went, and it got easier.

Hello and Good Morning Everyone!

My SO and I talked well into the night last night. We cried, discussed and have found a way to compromise.

He understands where I am coming from and he knows that he would love a clean house over a messy one. He’s just overwhelmed! Our roommate will be moving out next month because it’s truly what is best for everyone. My SO and I need to start building towards the future we want together and when it comes to our house life we are on the same page.

We have a plan now :) We are going to organize the whole house and clean from top to bottom when the roommate moves out. Then it will be simple maintenance and upkeep afterwards. He’s excited and already cleaned our bathroom and straightened out our book shelf last night (at 3:30 am, haha)

He said that it came down to this; he can’t live with out me, he loves me more than anything and would regret it the rest of his life if he lost me over something as silly as this. It’s more important to me to have a clean and tidy home then it is for him to have a messy one. He also said that because we plan to have children one day he wants to start this now because he would never want a baby in that kind of environment.

Thank you all so much for your help and words of wisdom; I helped me find the words I needed to work things out and in the end make us stronger as a couple.

I’m a little teary-eyed, we came so close to throwing in the towel last night. But we can’t, we love one another WAY to much and both want this and us to work more than anything.

If I could give you all BIG hugs right now I would!! but this will have to do…

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Thanks again everyone <3
-LB

Wow! Thanks for the update, Sounds like it worked out great!

@janbb : It did! I’m so incredibly happy it did! <3 Haha but we are both crazy tired today! Thank you so much for all your help <3 There is oodles of fantastic karma coming your way ^.^

Excellent. Now that you have a plan it sounds very optimistic. How wonderful that he took your concerns seriously and wants to tackle the problem with you. Good luck with everything and thanks for the update :).

@JLeslie : Thanks for all your kind words and help! I really appreciate all your words of help and wisdom :) Just like @janbb, you have oodles of terrific karma coming your way!! :D

You can still buy him a huge shed ;-)
if he starts to waiver in future that’s where him & his clutter go lol… well done the both of you, I love happy endings me!! :-)

@Scooby : Haha I agree with you, we are actually going to be building a 2 car garage this summer and that will be his sanctuary :) I will then have my one room along with my own yoga room :) It’s all working out beautifully!! :D

@ElleBee

Excellent! Everyone’s a winner ;-)

Come to think of it I could do with a new shed myself! I only have a single garage & it’s full the brim with junk! Lol… I really should make better use of it, best dig out my cleaning overalls, Lol…….

Have fun you two :-)

@ElleBee – Yaaaaaay! That’s awesome. I’m so happy for you that it all worked out. :)

@ElleBee That is wonderful news. I’m so glad for both of you!!! (((Hug)))