Why censor answers?

One time I asked if it was possible to watch DVDs on a DS. The answer that got erased was someone saying “HELL NOOOOO!”

Really, does that kind of answer need to stay up?

@theichibun: Fair point. I don’t see why it necessarily has to stay up, but there should probably be an input process. Have it marked irrelevant or something.

Besides that, it’s pretty obvious to me when something is completely vapid and when there’s some intentionality behind it – “no” is almost never a good answer. “No, but…” easily could be. Something sarcastic or offensive can easily be witty or useful.

There is input. That’s what flags are for. I don’t know how many people flagged it, but I know at least 1 person did.

I envision the flags as a way for us to let the mods know to take a look at something.

When a user joins Fluther, they agree to follow the guidelines. If they don’t, the answer/question will be removed. This is not censorship, it is the way the owners choose to enforce the existing rules.

For more information about using Fluther browse and read the links at the bottom of the page.

Yes, In always want to know what was said. Sometimes I ask the person who was modded what they said. Very frustrating.

@theichibun I don’t see why HELL NOOOO shouldn’t have stayed up. It answered the question a little more colorfully than “No.” and gave you a glimpse of that postrer’s style/personality.

@YARNLADY Er… yes, yes that is censorship. That’s the definition of censorship. Removing something someone has written because you don’t want others to see it. That’s censorship. You can attempt to defend it, but you can’t do it by refusing to call it censorship. Well, I guess you can, but you won’t be right. And he was not asking whether the rules exist, he was asking why these rules exist.

I’m interested in the answer myself, having recently had my first taste of Fluther censorship. Someone was asking what the first civilization was. I answered that I would let him know when we developed one. The view that we have yet to develop civilization isn’t even all that controversial (Mohandas Gandhi notably making the same remark; a reporter asked him what he thought about Western civilization and Gandhi replying, “I think it would be an excellent idea”). My response was censored, and I’m a bit puzzled as to why someone felt it was necessary to protect the denizens of Fluther from it.

@SmashTheState – I would agree with @YARNLADY if it was true that the moderators only removed answers that violate the guidelines. But if what you just said is true about your answer, then I just caught one of the moderators in a lie. Elsewhere, I accused the moderators of being drunk on their power. One of them replied and said my answer was offensive and untrue that they only censor answers that are against their guidelines. I refused to aplolgize because I know what I said is true and, hence, not offensive. Your answer, unless there’s more to it that you’re not telling us, isn’t a personal attack and answered the question in your own style. Yet the mods chose to censor it even though it was not a violation of the guidelines. And that is, indeed, censorship!

@SmashTheState without the censorship, as you correctly put it, you would have been able to see that I had posted pretty much the same answer you attempted, just before your attempt.

The owners here don’t like ‘humor’ (or ‘irony’, ‘satire’, ‘criticism’, ‘wit’, or anything else that’s not a dry-as-dust and boring-as-hell ‘answer’ to exactly what was asked… unless it was a stupid Q to begin with, when answering ‘exactly what is asked’ will also get your answer bounced because ‘you took advantage of a grammatical error’ or other nonsense).

Actually, answering Qs in ‘General’ is getting to be a hell of a fun game.

Sometimes I pre-answer to save the mods the trouble:

Removed by Fluther moderators

@SmashTheState My definition of agreeing to the rules, and having your submissions removed if you don’t is more in line with a baseball game. The umpire calls strikes, balls and outs. You have to follow the rules, because that is part of the game. It is not censorship.

If you disagree with the call, that is a different story completely. I have found many submissions unacceptable, because of the insulting nature – such as unfounded accusations – or vulgar and obscene language, but they are allowed to stand. That’s a judgement call – not censorship.

@YARNLADY – What if you hit a home run out of the park, but the umpire calls it an out because you didn’t have your uniform properly buttoned up?

That’s according to the rules that everybody agreed to, but you can bet your bippy that everyone’s going to be ripping that umpire a new one!

I have had a few deleted for either being off topic or for being a personal attack.

@HungryGuy that’s not as far-fetched as you think. Don’t forget about George Brett and the pine-tar bat incident.

In case you’re not familiar with it: George Brett of the KC Royals hit a home run while in a game at Yankee Stadium against the Yankees. The homer would have been the difference in the game. The Yankees manager asked the umpire to look at the bat, because Brett had applied pine tar outside of an 18” area allowed by the rules. The umps checked the bat, found that there was indeed more pine tar than “allowed” and called the home run an out, instead.

I believe the call was overruled in the protest that followed, but still…

We don’t have a Player’s Union or a League Office to appeal to.

From a prior post:

Let’s be sure what we are talking about when we say “censorship.” Censorship is often used as a scare word to arouse people when censorship is not actually at issue at all.

Censorship and selectivity are not the same thing.
Censorship and responsible editing are not the same thing.
Censorship and exercise of judgment and taste in what to bring before the public are not the same thing.

If I decline to publish your remarks in my magazine, newspaper, Internet forum, or other outlet, where my intent and goal are to give voice to the best work I can find that serves the interests of my audience, that is not censorship. I am doing nothing whatsoever to stop you from publishing it. I do not owe you or anyone a platform. You can go elsewhere and publish it.

Censorship is the systematic suppression of material on the basis of some definable content or ideology or other criterion that can be identified and stated in advance. It takes a pretty large institution (such as a government) to practice censorship because it requires the span of control to actually prohibit and prevent release of the material to the public.

I will always stand on the side of free speech and will prefer too little restriction over too much. But I do believe that most content can benefit from the exercise of some judgment and selectivity before it is released. It is the rare author who is his own best critic.

A reporter once asked Abbie Hoffman if it was true that he supported complete freedom of expression. He agreed that this was so. The reporter asked Abbie what his response was to the classic problem of shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre. Abbie’s response?

“FIRE! FIRE!”

I can’t say it better than @Jeruba and I hate to say I agree with @YARNLADY.

Former Wis.dmers (r.i.p) know what unmodded means – and it doesn’t last very long.

This is by far a better alternative – for the former simply cannot exist. We apparently require a certain amount of moderation.

I have asked in a Q about the possibility of a fourth, unmodded category. Most people are against it. I’d say the majority like the way fluther is today – and it has changed a lot over the years.

I think of it like an exclusive club – where there is a selection process. You can come in, wear whatever you want, but heed the rules of the place. You want to have a fight with someone – do it in chat – it’s upsetting the peeps in the thread.

You want to be dumb, illiterate, or have forgotten to spell-check – fine – chat.

In other words, it’s a place for civilized, intelligent people to talk about things and ask and answer questions. It’s also a community. A welcoming one, at that. It’s not snobbish – it is what it is. You don’t fit into every community you walk into – why would everyone feel at home here? And why should a private, exclusive club (and it is – it’s not Yahoo) cater to the lowest common denominator?

And when one enters a new place, any new place, even a bowling alley (and I love ‘em) – they don’t walk up to someone’s lane – then grab their ball from their hands and throw the ball into their pins? They don’t take their smelly shoes and rub them in their noses? They don’t run in, bowl, and run out without paying – swearing all the time. Now do they?

Act civilly. Be treated civilly.

Act like an asshole, get modded.

Get modded enough, get kicked back to askville.

Nuf said.

[mod says]

Some things are removed for obvious reasons: Spam and blatant trolling, for instance.

Some things are removed because they aren’t conducive to the type of environment we want to foster here (namely a smart, helpful, welcoming community): Personal attacks, blatant racism/hate speech, and txtspk/horrible spelling, for instance.

Some things are removed because they aren’t appropriate for the General Section, though they’d be fine in the Social Section (like @SmashTheState‘s answer to the ‘first civilization’ question, which appeared to be a ‘one liner’): Jokes without an actual answer, off-topic responses, and unhelpful responses, for instance.

See the General Section guidelines, the Social Section guidelines, and the Writing Standards for more information.

This is social – so can I just say that our manager is a babe?

;-)

But of course. ;)

Gassho, @zenele.

Fluther seems to have a reasonable system. Until you’ve been on a truly unmoderated site or (worse) one where moderation is highly biased (such as the last one I was on), you can’t really appreciate it. Some of the recent changes got me modded several times because I misunderstood the “off topic” rule. I was also modded a few times in my first week here for firing back at a troll instead of flagging; a carryover behavior from the previous site where it was fight back or leave. The mods didn’t take down the tirade I threw on Meta last week; IMO true freedom of speech isn’t being surpressed here.

@zenele Actually it is not social— we’re talking meta level here.

This is censorship.

Enforcing guidelines and standards in a little place like Fluther has nothing to do with such practices. Fluther is not a world. Fluther is not a power. Fluther is not people’s lives or the setting in which they conduct their lives. It’s a virtual environment where certain activities take place among voluntary participants.

You might as well call it “censorship” when a librarian asks for quiet in the reading room or when a classroom teacher requires students to raise their hands and wait their turn to speak. You might as well call it “censorship” if a judge prevents spectators at a trial from shouting out comments during the proceedings. Call it “censorship” if your wife taps your arm at a family dinner party to discourage you from hotly taking on your father-in-law’s political views. Call all these things “censorship,” and then you can feel free to call the works of the mods here “censorship” because you will have completely changed the meaning of the word.

good reading on censorship! Some very good answers!