Do you think a patient's mindset is partially responsible for them dying sooner rather than later when given a prognosis?
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Vunessuh (
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June 7th, 2010
This is a hypothetical scenario. It’s based off the fact that not all prognosis’s are accurate. I’m just curious as to your thoughts about this theory/idea of one patient’s situation.
Here’s the scenario: A patient is told they only have 6 months left to live. However, the prognosis is inaccurate and in reality, he has triple the time left, but unfortunately neither he nor the doctors know that. Since he was told that he only has around 6 months left, once that time nears, he automatically thinks he is going to die. Because of this mindset, could he actually die sooner rather than when his time is actually up, if he didn’t mentally/psychologically have these thoughts? Do these thoughts of, “I’m going to die any day now” make a difference? Does he have the ability to psychologically be partially responsible for his death around the time of the prognosis for the simple fact that that’s when he thinks he is going to die? Essentially, what I’m getting at, is that he begins to mentally shut down, which causes him to physically shut down much faster because perhaps he trained his brain to think that when the six months were up, he was going to die. I’m not saying the mind is solely responsible for this, but that it could possibly be one component to a patient’s deterioration over time sooner rather than later.
And later would be the time he would actually have left if he didn’t believe he was absolutely and positively going to die at the time of his prognosis.
I was having this conversation with a friend and we were talking about how some people can train themselves and their mind to wake up every morning at the exact same time without the use of an alarm clock. Which brought us to the topic above about people who are terminally ill.
The mind is a powerful thing.
If you think this is possible, does it change how you view doctor’s giving patients a prognosis?
What are your thoughts?
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28 Answers
It could work both ways. My Father-In-Law decided to simply give up and die sooner rather than later, because his overall health had deteriorated so much. Some people use it as a challenge to get better, and prove the doctor wrong.
Yipes! I agree with @YARNLADY in that this could go either way. some people can be told and just fight it for all they’re worth and still pass on and some can fight it and go into remission or last for years. And some can quietly give up and hang around a long time, some could give up and go right away. I think that mental attitude is only one variable and the weight of each variable is fluid and not the same in all people.
Sure it can. How you treat your body can make all the difference. At least in your case senerio. But in some cases it won’t make a diffference. My aunt was told she had cancer of the mouth and the cancer was already so large and invasive that nothing was going to change that. They told her 6 months at the most and she bearly made it to 4 months.
I have seen people given bad odds before either recover or at least live a few years longer than expected. People will often attempt to change their lifestyle in an attempt to make their body stronger so it can battle the illness a little longer. Depression has been linked to a weaken immune system, so if they give up their immune system will be compromised even further and their body will have a harder time keeping the illness at bay.
Mind is definitely linked with brain. The placebo effect for example, has been very well documented.
But your example makes me think of another one, that has to do with someone messing with your expectations: I’ve heard of a psychological experiment the Israeli army did with its soldiers. One day, they had a march, say of 40 miles. However, they told one team of soldiers: “You have 50 miles to hike today”; another, “You have 40 miles,” ; and a third, “You got 30 miles of hiking today.”
Out of all the teams, the third team, who thought they had reached their destination and found out they still had some time to go, were physically and psychologically the most exhausted. Whereas the team that was given an overestimate charged on, and was pleasantly surprised when they were given an early break. Physiologically the teams walked the same distance, but because of the psychology, they experienced something quite different on a physical level.
Thanks everyone. GA’s to you all.
But I have a question and excuse me for being naive.
What exactly is the point of a prognosis besides informing the patient of the time they have left so they can say goodbye to family and friends and perhaps experience a few more adventures before they die? It just seems like it’s such a strong possibility for a patient to live much longer than expected especially if they are determined to take better care of themselves and have a positive/healthy outlook on the situation. But how is this possible for some people if they are told when they are going to die? I realize the patient is responsible for how they feel and think about the situation, but it just seems that a prognosis can easily be responsible for someone’s death much sooner than it really has to be, for the simple fact that people can give up.
@lifeflame That’s a great example. :)
I think it’s possible, but not always. I’ve seen many people, terminally ill, that can’t wait to die… and sometimes they linger the longest. I think the intensity of your “will to survive” has some effect on the big picture, but I don’t think it’s a deciding factor.
You pay the doctor for his expertise – it’s up to the patient how he/she will react to it.
Of course. And for hanging on just a little bit longer to take care of unfinished business.
From my experience with people who have had terminal prognosis’s, they are a best guess so where a death occurs is IMO coincidental.
But I am a firm believer that attitude is everything and sad grumpy people are setting themselves up for an early exit and happy motivated people are the ones I see defy the odds.
Absolutely!
We CAN and DO will things to happen every moment for better or for worse by the thoughts we keep.
I am seeing a brilliant hypnotherapist right now that treats pain management and many other health issues and he say’s that depending on the condition that presents he can tell you exactly what kind of mindset, thought patterns a person has/is programmed to.
It is true, we all have to die of SOMETHING, it is also true that about 90% of a persons health problems are created by and either exacerbated, or cured, by their mental attitude and thought processes.
We DO create our own reality, no doubt.
This is why watching our every thought is some of the most important work we can do to create a healthier and more prosperous self.
I think doctors do it for at least 4 reasons that I can think of.
1. patients don’t pay large bucks for them to lie
2. it also gives the patient a time frame for them to tie up any legal problems
3. patients can sign a DNR if they wish too
4. If a patient doesn’t have an idea of the seriousness of the situation the same could be said for the opposite effect. Lets say they don’t know and are told that they won’t die for sometime from their illness. They can put off treatment that may extend their lives or even continue doing the same crap that is killing them because they really don’t understand the full extent of their situation.
I certainly think that there circumstances and patients where state of mind plays a significant role in how a disease progresses.
No I really don’t. I’ve spent too many hours around happy, determined, dying patients to think otherwise. They all ascribed to the power of positive thinking and they all died pretty much on schedule and by degree. The over sold idea that staying positive is the best weapon sounds lovely, and makes being around the dying a bit more palatable but, personally, I think it’s like putting whipped cream on shit and asking them to eat it with a smile on their face. The people who were pissed and raged against their illness died, but they didn’t die a piece at a time, they fought like warriors to the bitter end. I agree with @TheOnlyNeffie “I’ve seen many people, terminally ill, that can’t wait to die… and sometimes they linger the longest.” I don’t think mindset has much to do with determining when death takes you but it does determine how prepared you are for death when it gets there.
@Silhouette
Well said.
I did not mean to imply that positive thinking can save you from illness, just that our minds do have a great effect on our bodies.
When it’s my time to die, I will go in peace and acceptance.
The old mantra of, ‘It’s not how you start it’s how you finish. ’
@Coloma Oh no, I was talking about the power of positive thinking gurus who are making a fortune selling this crap to sick people.
I read a book not too long ago by a woman who is dying of breast cancer, she did what she was supposed to, she joined positive thinking groups, her doctors kept preaching at her to stay positive. Every time her anger burped in public someone told her you have to stay positive.
The overall effect of this mantra, at each set back she felt like a failure, like if she was just more positive she would be okay. Finally, she was fed up, she was mad, she felt cheated and she was tired of the pressure to stay positive in the face of her tragic illness so she asked why the hell can’t I be angry? What the hell kind of support is this? You people are telling me it’s my fault because I’m not as positive as I should be?
In the end she put her energy into writing a book about being allowed to feel the real feelings something like this brings to the table. It was published a year before she died and she died speaking her truth. Not a bad end to a life.
Yes, I think mindset and attitude about an illness can have an effect on the outcome.
@Silhouette well said! I think you really nailed it. In my experience, the attitude has nothing to do with when a person goes. But it certainly helps through the dying process, which in most cases can be extremely difficult. I think that is where the benefits come into play. People need to be allowed to feel how they feel, and I think that many people forget, or don’t even REALIZE that dying is a very personal thing.
@TheOnlyNeffie
Actually dying is very impersonal, but not to our egos. lol
For a human mind to imagine itself to no longer exist, in a way it can comprehend, is what causes all the trouble.
I am a pretty well adjusted person but, dying will be the ultimate expereince.
Oct. 9, 2042
Well….82 ain’t so bad. lol
Monday July 11th 2089.
Oh, fuck me. I don’t want to live to be 101. D:
@Silhouette I love the friggin’ Fruitcake Lady too!!!!!
Daaaayyam, I’m already daid! Been so these past 11 years. Death clock is broke!
I totally think a persons mindset has a lot to do with how they live, or begin dying during the last months of their lives. I’m sure that your hypothetical situation has been very real many, many times, and though unfortunate mistakes are sometimes made I believe the prognosis must be given. Therefore, the challenge is within the patient to try to live the best life they can in whatever time they have left. It’s my opinion that those who keep a positive and determined outlook are the ones who beat the odds, sometimes even by years rather than months. I have a friend who has terminal cancer right now and she is doing an amazing job of living a good life, day to day. Great question!
@Coloma I’m not sure that I understand what you mean. Someone that is actively dying, particularly someone in the last stages of the dying process, most often retreats within themselves. There is a lot of internalizing, you can really almost see how much time that person is spending in their own mind. Dying is really between death and you, it would be impossible for most people to not look back and dwell on their own life when the end has come. I don’t see how that’s impersonal… could you please help me understand what you mean? Thanks :)
@TheOnlyNeffie Just guessing here but I think @Coloma means it’s nothing personal, death comes to us all. Doesn’t single anyone out.
@Silhouette ohh, that makes sense. You are probably right.. thank you :)
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