Is Mexico blackmailing America?

I think this is extremely unlikely.

Augustian. can you think of any other reason why the Federal Gov. is not enforcing the immigration laws? there has to be a reason. INS is at a standstill on enforcement.

How about that the Fed. Govt. is always slow on these matters and also because they don’t believe it would help or perhaps they don’t believe in this ‘enforcement’.

who says that the government is not enforcing the immigration laws?

it is actually recently been reported from a study that boarder cities are the safest in the nation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/03/us-mexico-border-safety-a_n_598825.html

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-06-04/news/21656731_1_border-patrol-border-security-lloyd-easterling

http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2010/06/09/border-cities-are-safest-in-nation-but-deadly-for-immigrants/

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Border-Cities-Among-the-Safest/t5_hylu8pEyQgip5uji-6A.cspx

Simone De Beauvoir, if they don’t believe in enforcing their own law, then it should be repealed. agree?

The US economy is built on two things: cheap exploitative labour and illicit drug sales. Remove those two and the US economy collapses like a house of cards. That’s why. Are you aware that Arizona is quietly modifying their racist whites-first laws because they’ve discovered they really can’t get along without those hated swarthy-skinned foreigners to mow their lawns and refresh their juleps?

IF anyone is blackmailing the US Government into not enforcing these laws (a huge “if”, in my mind), it is much more likely to be the US corporations that count on undocumented laborers.

the huffington post article talks about how politicians like to play up the belief that it is unsafe in order to strike fear into voters and use the topic as a vote getter… saying that they are the best candidate because they will ‘help secure the border’

which is b.s. because the feds are already doing that.

I agree on the undocumented workers in factories. but, again thats the job of the Federal Government and INS to investigate.

and since when does mexico have black-mailing power over the united states?????

Alive, i think you missed my point. blackmailing America by destroying the American factories in Mexico. this would be a major threat to the economy of America. these factories have invested billions of dollars in the building of these factories.

just look at the articles. they are from a few days ago.

@john65pennington you said you think that the Federal government is being blackmailed into not enforcing immigration laws. But the federal government IS IN FACT enforcing those laws….. so i didn’t miss your point i just corrected your facts (and basically proved your theory to be incorrect.)

Given America’s vastly superior military power, I believe it is extremely unlikely that Mexico would be able to blackmail it.

Maybe aliens from space are blackmailing America?

[Mod Says:] Flame off folks. Please stick to the topic and refrain from personal attacks. If you have nothing productive to say please resist the temptation to post and move on to the next question.

Oh, John. Don’t be ridiculous. Destroying American factories in Mexico would have a much worse negative affect on Mexico’s economy than America’s. Seriously… you really need to think these things through.

I think it is more that both parties want to keep this issue alive for campaigning, than the Government of Mexico blackmailing anyone.

The Dems for the most part think it will win the hispanic vote if they are seen as softer on immigration.
The Repubs think it will cement the conservative vote for them if they can blame the Dems for being soft on immigration.

Okay, I’ve read this question about three times now and I’m still not sure what it’s about.

1. Why would Mexico threaten American companies that have factories based in mexico, when those factories would improve Mexico’s economy, over something that really doesn’t effect them?

2. If threats are being made, why wouldn’t said companies pack up and leave? It’s not like Mexico’s the only country that has cheaper labor.

3. How would illegal immigration into the US effect Mexico to the point that they would need to make these blackmail threats?

Pennington, you often make posts that display a cryptic form of racism. I find this one to be no different, and in the absence of anything provable, I can think of no reason to take you seriously on this issue. Show me one element of proof that Mexico has an actual policy of blackmail and I will kiss your ass in Macy’s window.

I agree with everything @augustlan has said. It makes no sense for Mexico to blackmail us. Destroying factors in their country would hurt their economy more that it would hurt ours.

No, I don’t think it is blackmail. I think the US, state and local government turns a blind eye to some of the immigration problems, because the “system” is set up in a way that if we broke it all apart it would be painful for the country probably. US corporations, businesses, farms, in the US pay these people less then they would have to pay an American legal worker, and they like it that way. One could argue the Mexicans are being treated like slave labor. The trick would be to force corporations to pay a proper wage, then prices of goods go up, unless big business is willing to take less of a profit – ha – and then maybe we can inforce immigration laws. Otherwise, I assume businesses are happy to be left alone with their illegal workers.

However, it is true that Mexicans who send money back to their families in Mexico, or who work as day workers, do take their US dollars back to Mexico and spend some of it in that country, which helps the Mexican economy I would think.

With no disrespect to Mexico, I don’t think it has any leverage to blackmail the United States of America.

The blackmail idea is pretty far-fetched, @john65pennington US firms that were forced out of Mexico would either come back to the USA (good for business and employment here) or move to someplace like Asia where costs are even lower than they are in Mexico (good for cost of imported items).

There are several things to keep in mind regarding illegal immigration into the US. Even East Germany and North Korea, with their incredibly repressive governments perfectly willing to machine gun anyone caught trying to cross their border, have never beeen able to seal their borders 100% When people are determined to cross a border in search of a better life, some of them are going to make it. I do not think we want to set up a 100 yard no-man’s land, concertina wire barriers and machine gun nests along our Southern border the way East Germany did. And even that level of security didn’t ever stop workers from escaping “the worker’s paradise.”

Second, while Republicans pay great lip service to border enforcement, both parties have been part of the problem, because US businesses they are beholden to profit from the cheap labor a porous border brings. The Republicans held both branches of Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court plenty long enough to seal the border had they wanted to do so.

Wait, why would Mexico want it’s people to immigrate to America in the first place? “We’re going to shut down your American factories if you dont let our people flee Mexico, our country, and cross the boarder”.

Doesn’t seem like a reasonable conspiracy to me.

Building a country requires a strong economy. What’s one way to build a strong economy? Get foreign firms to invest in your country to build factories, invest in business, etc. If anything, I’d say Mexico has more of an interest to keep the factories in the country than the US does.

Riddle me this: why would Mexico risk their own longterm economic development in favor of having their citizens live abroad and, essentially, do manual labor type jobs?

On the other hand, Mexican opposition to harsh anti-illegal immigration laws can be analogized w/how the US goes out of its way to voice strong opposition to mistreatment of US citizens: the Mexican government has a compelling interest in making sure its citizens living abroad aren’t mistreated.

The US Chamber of Commerce, an organization dominated by wealthy “conservatives.” has given the nod to illegal immigration for years. These are ranchers, farmers, retailers and factory owners that can’t compete with foreign imports without cheap labor.

Those manufacturers that fled to Mexico after the enactment of NAFTA back in the 90s, soon were shocked to find that the docile, desperate peon labor force of that country immediately fought for unions and were even willing to die on the barricades for a decent wage. These people showed a tenacity these companies hadn’t seen in a labor force since the 20s and 30s in the US. Many of them have relocated to other climes such as Malaysia, China and Viet Nam—in other words, to countries with governments so lacking in human rights that they can guarantee that there will be no unions.

There’s no black mail, Pennington. Just people who will do what it takes to get what they need unlike the docile US worker whose biggest problem, as seen from industry’s point of view, is that they are priced out of the labor market. However, if you haven’t noticed, that is being remedied. slowly, yet surely by a government whose policy for years has been to side with the corporation on labor issues, allows the wholesale outsourcing of jobs, and refuses to tax incoming products in order to protect domestic production. There is duress, for sure. But it isn’t coming from Mexico.

American factories in Mexico have been closing in Mexico for a long time, and opening up in China and SE Asia because the people there work more cheaply than Mexicans will. This leaves a lot of jobless Mexicans (just like it leaves jobless Americans). It’s also a fact that American companies in America advertise for help in Mexico, hoping they’ll come over the border. Agriculture, especially, loves cheap migrant workers that they can employ for the harvest for almost no money or benefits, and send on their way.

In short, I find it likelier that this reflects reality than does a conspiracy theory of this caliber. I think illegal immigrants and Muslims seem to be the scapegoats of a lot of our homegrown political and economic unrest, displacing the Jews and Blacks of the past.

This question was just a possible reason as to why the Feds are not enforcing the immigration laws. if someone has a better suggestion, please post it. there has to be a reason why illegal immigrants are not being arrested by INS and not enforcing their own federal law.

It was just explained to you several times: business needs the illegals.

@john65pennington It is enforced and immigrants do get deported. Maybe the enforcement isn’t as tight because there are far more important things to worry about and it’s far too difficult to spend the maximum amount of time and money on keeping all illegal immigrants out of our country.

They do keep sending Mexican’s back, but they just keep hopping right back over. It’s like trying to defy gravity – it’s something that’s just going to happen and I think our government knows this. Solution? President Bush wanted to build a wall – which I wonder, has he ever heard of The Great Wall of China? Hahaha.

I could argue, why are so many people smoking pot nowadays? Isn’t anyone enforcing the laws in this country? They are, problem is, it’s just going to happen and it’s far too difficult to sniff out all of the pot in this country.

I think the nominal amount of enforcement we see is due to the fact that our leaders see the NAU (North American Union) coming soon and really don’t feel like wasting the effort. Why spend money on something that won’t matter in a decade anyways?

but why are you saying that the gove is not enforcing the immigration laws? they ARE. you have no proof that they are not enforcing the laws. THEY ARE ENFORCING THE LAWS.

just because there are a number of undocumented people in the US does not mean that the gov is not enforcing the laws. it only shows that nothing is 100%. as a former cop you should know that. you can’t prevent all crimes (that would be like Minority Report). they can only stand at the border and stop/send back people that they see/catch. they can’t see/catch ‘em all.- but that STILL doesn’t mean they are not enforcing the law.

you are wrong to say they are not enforcing it.

I say stop blaming the poor Mexicans and clean up your own backyard. If not for the illegals farming our lands, Frys and Safeway wouldn’t have any produce to sell us. If everyone’s so worried about illegal aliens, they should go after the big companies that use (and enslave) them for their huge food enterprises. If there wasn’t employment opportunities here (that no one else wanted), they wouldn’t be coming here. Period.

This thread got me thinking. Now, I still believe there is not any blackmail going on, and I still think, as I said above, that the US government turns a blind eye to a lot of illegal immigration coming across the Mexican Border, but do you also think that Mexico is all for letting their citizens run across, not only because some of the money comes back to be spen in Mexico, but also because since a large portion of these people are poor, Mexico is happy to see them go? If the American poor started leaving in droves to other countries I don’t think the US would do anything to prevent it, do you? I think there would also be many citizens and people in our government who might think to themselves good riddance.

@Disc2021 has it.

This is one of many issues where I part company with both major political parties. From my perspective, the Republicans don’t want to be tough on immigration because too many businesses depend upon cheap Mexican labor. The Democrats don’t want to be tough on immigration because they are hoping to “win” the Hispanic vote.

Again, a plague on both their houses!

@CaptainHarley I agree, I think no party is really motivated (as I said they turn a blind eye to the problem). You said you part company, so does that mean you want to throw everyone illegal out of the country?

Not necessarily. Perhaps there’s some way we can expedite the process for those who obviously qualify under the immigration laws. I don’t have enough information to know.

@CaptainHarley I tend to agree both parties have their share of the blame for looking the other way. Certainly with control of the White House and both houses of Congress for much of the past decade, Republicans could have changed things had they wished to. And ditto to Democrats since 2008.

But realistically, it would cost somewhere between ¼ qnd ½ trillion dollars to round up and deport everyone who has entered the US illegally. I see no enthusiasm among thos most angry about illegal immigrants being here to actually pay for deportation as a fix. They want it done with the wave of a magic wand, I suppose. To me, it makes better sense to first seal the borders to some reasonable level then set up a pathway to citizenship for those who haven’t broken any other laws. We’d be better off having them on the books and working productively as taxpayers than paying to round them up and cart them off.

One wonders why the big wall was left open and unfinished in someplace like AZ. Perhaps TX and CA had enough voters to put the kibosh on that idea in their states, but the big companies that employ illegals still needed the hole left somewhere so they could keep getting their cheap labor flow. ;)

I really get the impression AZ is sick and tired of the crime. Deporting someone who is illegal is a fast way to get rid of a criminals, no real trial or any of that other local courts time stuff. Be clear, I am not saying that all ilegal immigrants are criminals, I am sure it is probably a small percentage of illegal aliens commit crimes, but it seems to be a large enough percentage of crimes being committed are done by illegal aliens. The new law will help clean up the streets so to speak. I have said before on fluther that where my parents live outside of DC they estimate over 40% of the criminal gang activity in the area is illegal aliens. I haven’t heard in the media anyone really talking about the immigrants in AZ taking jobs, it is all about the crime (of course that is the media and not Arizonans, I am not sure what they are really saying neighbor to neighbor). I do hear people who live around me complaining about jobs and immigration, but where I live immigration barely affects people compared to other cities I have lived in, they are just talking about something they have no real knowledge of, part of the fear machine on the far right here in the midsouth.

When Prince William County (in Virginia) enacted a law similar to Arizona’s, it had an interesting effect on their crime rate.

@JLeslie I think that the effort to tie crime to illegal aliens (crimes other than illegal entry, that is) are just part of the typical racial demonization that goes with ethnic discrimination. THe same was done for virtually every new wave of European immigrants that arrived in the US after the country’s inception. The Chinese, Irish, Italians, Poles and so forth all were not hated because they were different. Oh no, it was just their crime.

The truth is that diverting police resources to immigration enforcement takes them away from fighting crime, not the opposite. Wait and see.

@laureth @ETpro Just to give you my personal opinion on the AZ law, which I did not really do above, I just wrote what I perceive as the complaints of the people in AZ, I think the law is terrible. Local police should not have the responsibiliy or authority with anything involving immigration. I think it can lead to people not calling the police when someone is in danger, because they are afraid of deportation, and I think that is horrible. I think if the police simply focus on crime, that is enough, if that is actually the cheif complaint of the citizens. I do favor once it is determined there is enough evidence to have a case, that citizenship status be evaluated and they be deported before any court time is wasted. Witnesses to a crime should never be in jeopardy of deportation.

And, I will add that even legal immigrants who are not yet citizens, I have little tolerance for them committing crimes, especially violent ones. It’s not really a matter of paperwork or no paperwork for me, our citizens we are stuck to deal with. And, I am all in favor of making the path to citizenship more accessible to people so they can be here legally.

Mexico doesn’t have to blackmail us. If the safety valve of immigration is removed the entire country will explode in revolution. They escape the the U.S. because their entire government and police force is corrupt and the people are oppressed. Opposition dies or ruined in fake scandals.

Violence in Mexico already spills over into the U.S. Imagine how bad it will be if the entire country collapses.

@Ron_C Fleeing to Amerika to escape corruption and oppression is like moving to Australia to avoid kangaroos.

@SmashTheState hey, I didn’t say it was a good solution but it does keep them from causing trouble for the Mexican establishment.

By the way ABB just built a giant facility in San Luis Potosi along with Valeo who make the torque converters for GM and Ford. Cheap, educated labor, can’t beat it.