Past and present New Yorkers (and visitors): were you already well aware that the original WTC plaza was modeled after the Grand Mosque of Mecca?

I was never aware of that, but then, I’m from New Jersey so what do I know?

That’s silly.

So every building with a Roman Arch or a shiny surface is a direct insult to Islam? How ridiculous.

They also used concrete in its construction. You know who else used concrete in the construction of buildings? Hitler!

I’m not saying…just draw your own conclusions.

@Seek_Kolinahr, I appreciate your response; however, my point isn’t about Osama’s aesthetics. Rather, I think it’s weird that the public/media is having an irreconcilable debate about building a mosque near Ground Zero when there’s been a facsimile of Islam’s most important mosque there since the WTC’s inception.

@jaytkay, this is coming from the architect’s mouth, not mine nor the reporter’s.

I normally don’t like to intervene, but I’d prefer not to have my question derailed for lack of clarity and/or comprehension.

I was not aware of that, but it is not so surprising as much of architecture is derivative of something else.

The architect was not a Muslim, so there was no intent there.

By the way, I am not opposed to a mosque at Ground Zero.

There’s a big difference between using an architectural style that arguably has roots in pre-Mediaeval Arabic architecture, and constructing a building solely intended for use as a place for religious worship.

I have no opinion one way or the other on this particular issue, but the two concepts are very different.

@Seek_Kolinahr, good point. I’ve been too boggled to articulate a response to my own question, and yours is helpful.

… still this goes beyond incorporation of architectural elements and style. It’s a replica of Islam’s holiest shrine.

@kevbo Sorry to be so heavy-handed, but the article really jumped to conclusions.

Just to pick one, the writer (not the architect) says, “Yamasaki’s courtyard mimicked Mecca’s assemblage of holy sites…by including several sculptural features, including a fountain, and he anchored the composition in a radial circular pattern.”

In reality, you would be hard-pressed to find a major city on Earth without some circular area with a fountain.

@jaytkay, Actually, the writer is also an architect who studied Yamasaki.

The plaza fronting the towers paid homage to Mecca, Islam’s holiest place, by replicating that city’s courtyard layout, according to architect Laurie Kerr, who has studied Yamasaki’s work.

“studied Yamasaki’s work” does not mean she has any insight into the design precedents. After reading those articles, we have also “studied Yamasaki’s work”

Yes, the building is obviously influenced by Islamic design.

But she has no reason to say, “it’s no surprise that Bin Laden would turn against Yamasaki’s work in particular”.

Attacking the largest, tallest and most easily recognized-around-the-world buildings in New York – and thinking they were chosen for their delicate filigree?

That’s a bit of navel gazing on her part. Non-architects have other things on their minds.

Maybe you can build me a house then.

You questioned the writer’s expertise so I provided credentials.

Anyway, it sounds like your answer to the question is a “no.”

Anyway, it sounds like your answer to the question is a “no.”
lol, yeah, that’s a safe bet

“For Yamasaki, an architect with a keen mathematical mind and a taste for ornamental pattern-work, this brush with the intricate geometries of Islamic architecture was inspiring, and he began to incorporate arabesques and arches into his work”

“Yamasaki described its plaza as “a mecca, a great relief from the narrow streets and sidewalks of the surrounding Wall Street area.””

“Europe imported pointed arches from Islam during the Middle Ages, and so non-Muslims have come to think of them as innovations of the Gothic period.”

“the Binladens were involved with almost all royal construction.”

So – a famous, talented architect likes one of the most common (and beautiful IMO) architectural designs in the world, the great Mosque incorporates simple patterns of Euclidian geometry into a lot of its design, and the economic world is a lot smaller than most everyone seems to think.
And to top it off, talking about world religion in general, and especially Islam right now is walking on landmines insofar as easily consumable, politically safe centralized information content generation goes.

So what part is a conspiracy again?

Oi.

No conspiracy—there’s public debate about whether it’s appropriate to build a mosque near/at ground zero but no mention within the debate of the fact that the plaza was basically a mosque replica.

My question is whether this tidbit is commonly known by people who lived there (or whether it’s just regarded as a sculpture and plaza).

@kevbo It’s a moot point.

Does anyone know or care that every pillar you see everywhere is a throw back to Egyptian and Greek architecture? Anytime you see a window it’s a “replica” of the Gothic clerestory structure? I mean, if you want to go that far with it, a lean-to shed is a replica of a flying buttress, also of the Gothic period.

A pointy arch is not a replica. Gold filigree is not a replica. Building a to-scale copy of the Hagia Sophia – THAT would be a replica. Islam doesn’t have a trademark on architectural concepts.

On further reflection, I see kevbo was merely observing that it is very surprising that the Islamic design influence is never mentioned.

And yes, that is extremely surprising. No conspiracy. No coverup.

Given that 9/11 is still mentioned in the news every single day, nine years later…
And that people are freaking out about a planned nearby mosque…
And that certain parties freaked out over a “crescent” in the design of the Pennsylvania 9/11 memorial…
And the mention of Islam sends certain radio and TV news outlets into apoplexy…

The omission is very, very surprising.

No conspiracy. No coverup.
Just an interesting factoid.

I think we reacted to questions @kevbo did not ask.

@jaytkay lurve for a great answer.

@jaytkay GA and on to the next 10K.

“My question is whether this tidbit is commonly known by people who lived there (or whether it’s just regarded as a sculpture and plaza).”

Oh. My friends in Jersey that go to New York almost every day just call it a plaza. From the few people outside my circle I’ve met there, I doubt they’d notice unless it’s keeping someone from making money.

@jaytkay : I think we’re responding to kevbo’s personality… sorry kevbo!

I made this suggestion in the other thread:

At ground zero we should build a mosque right next to a church, a synagoge, a mandir, and a pagoda. It would send an important signal. The radical Muslims want the Christians and Jews to hate Muslims. That way they stay in business. I’m not saying such an ensemble of holy buildings should be the only part. Of course a memorial site should also have a statement of support for the victims.

Imagine the impact on the 1 billion moderate Muslims around a world. A mosque at the 911 memorial site. Right next to a church, a synagoge, a mandir, and a pagoda. What a powerful message that would be! But I know that radical Christians don’t like this either. They want the Muslims and Jews to hate Christians. That way they stay in business too.

@kevbo….I’m not a New Yorker. However, I don’t think anyone has made that correlation.

I find it extremely interesting and in some ways it shows that so much of what is happening is all interconnected in ways we could never even begin to imagine.

@mattbrowne….By the way, most Jews do not hate Christians (well, none that I know anyway). And they don’t need to hate anyone to stay in business, thankfully.