Why are some social questions from Fluther listed at Sierra Club Green Home?

ewww lame. It appears most of the questions on that site are actually from fluther. I gotta agree with ya, this is crappy and would love to opt out.

fluther…I love you so much, why do you keep stabbing me in the back?

Hmm…I can see where people would have an issue with this…I don’t want my qs going to random people on other random sites. I forget whether or not I was told this stipulation in the beginning, though.

We should be able to opt out of it. I don’t want my posts from Fluther ending up on other sites. I realize that this is an open forum and anyone can look at my posts. I don’t want to make it easier for anyone.

The original message about Federated Fluther didn’t explicitly say that other sites would be getting our content, just that we would be getting theirs.
It bugs me. I’m not completely sure why, as I don’t use my real name here so I’m not too concerned about anonymity. It just seems like if I sign up for a website, I shouldn’t automatically be signed up for multiple websites.

@Likeradar It just seems like if I sign up for a website, I shouldn’t automatically be signed up for multiple websites.

I agree. There’s something about it that bugs me too. I noticed the site also has a link to the op’s Fluther profile. I think we should have some say about whether or not we would like this information available on other sites.

@jonsblond Totally agree… but we also have to remember any schmuck with an internet connection can look up our profile straight through Fluther. Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out why I think this is so lame.

@Likeradar Oh, I know. But they don’t have to make it so easy. At least make them work for it. ;) I’m Jonsblond on Fluther, not Sierra Club.

@jonsblond You’re totally right.

Oooh. I don’t like that one bit. I am here by choice. I am by choice not elsewhere. I know and understand this context, and context is part of what gives meaning to what we write. Even if one place is no more exposed than another, realistically speaking, I still want to control where my remarks appear.

This makes me feel exploited.

fluther…I love you so much, why do you keep stabbing me in the back? @uberbatman, I agree.

I think it should be opt-in, like the checkbox when you submit a question, “Also ask my friends on Facebook”.

[mod says] I will pass your concerns to the leadership, but in theory, using the tags to direct your question to a site with (potentially) true experts on a subject only helps answer the question accurately. Perhaps the system needs to be tweaked so that the Q on the federated site becomes anonymous? Of course, you do know that every Q and quip on here is indexed by Google and other search engines, so it is trivial to land on your Q when someone queries a search engine. In a nutshell, once the Q is posted, it is there for all to see.

I actually think this is really cool. It’s nice to see Fluther growing.

Hi everyone,

A couple things about this.

This is a new and experimental project we’re doing, but I think it’s important we can discuss it now and clarify what’s going on. As we explore this new direction, our first priority will always be protecting the integrity of the Fluther community.

Here’s how we think about this: the most important thing we can do is provide great answers to your questions. If we can send a question about solar panels to a solar panel community to get better answers, that’s a huge benefit to the Fluther commmunity. For anyone to provide an answer or ask a question, they still have to join Fluther and agree to our terms (even through Sierra Club Green Home), so we think of all these users as Fluther users.

It was a total oversight on our part that we didn’t communicate the fact that the flow of questions and answers is a two-way street—it was completely intrinsic to the way we thought of the Q&A network we’re building. I’m sorry about this, and we’ll make that more clear.

Federated Fluther isn’t just about Fluther users providing a service to other sites on the internet—we want experts everywhere to be able to help Fluther as well.

About the social question:

There was a bug that was allowing social questions and meta questions to go to other sites. That was fixed yesterday afternoon. We still consider this a “beta” feature, have opened it to a small number of users, and haven’t announced it to the public in general, and there will no doubt be some bugs along the way.

I’m sorry that some social questions went through—that won’t happen again (and we’ve removed all the existing ones).

We’re totally open to hearing concerns about this. We think of it as a way to extend the reach of Fluther and get more high-quality answers. That said, I understand that context is important, and we’re looking into ways to give you more control over that. We’ll be adding an option that allows you to opt-out of having your questions shared to the Federated Fluther Network.

The way profiles are linked and displayed makes it appear that the flutherite asking the question is a member of the Sierra Club, not fluther. Is this the same for the other partner sites?

While I support the Sierra Club and don’t mind having my personality associated with that organization, I can’t say this would be the case with all the organizations Fluther decides to partner with.

@ben I am glad to hear that an opt-out option will be available.

I understand why your doing it, but i would still like to opt out. Im happy you will be making that feature available.

@liminal That’s a really good point.

@ben Thank you for clarifying. I think it will be a great addition to Fluther now that I know we will be able to opt-out if we want.

A question to the mods about this?
Is the system taking the question only, and then the Sierra Club members answer it on their own site? Or is it taking the Fluther answers there as well? If the latter, is there any way to ensure that none of my answers are displayed anywhere except on Fluther? I don’t mind sharing questions, especially if Social questions are excluded. But I want total control of where my answers are published.

@downtide The entire question is viewable on the federated site. Any answers that are posted are from Fluther are attributed as coming from Fluther.

Also worth noting is that google doesn’t index Fluther questions on federated sites—if it was asked on Fluther, it will only show up on Fluther in a google search.

I don’t like this one little bit. Are there plans for an opt-out?

I clicked on a few names of Sierra Club people who have had questions turn up in our federated section. They all had a Fluther profile, just like any other jelly profile.

Are they aware that they’re members of Fluther? If I PM one of them, will they ever even know?

Do members of Fluther who have had questions posted to other sites also have a membership profile for the other site? I think @liminal makes an excellent point about that.

Also how would we ever know? If the intention is to get more/better answers to our questions, but we don;t know where they’re being posted, how would we even know where to read these answers? I wouldn;t have known about the Sierra club without this question.

@Likeradar The profile stuff is an interesting point.

Yes, federated members are aware when they join that they’re creating Fluther profiles. The Fluther Q&A profiles you see on SCGH are separate from any user profiles on the federated site—it just happens to be that SCGH doesn’t have user profiles at this time.

@downtide There most likely won’t be opt-out for answers at any time in the near future. We’ve consciously structured the copyright terms to allow anyone to reproduce content on Fluther, provided they give proper attribution. We want to create an open environment of sharing.

Answers from the federated sites show up right here on Fluther (with attribution). That’s the whole reason the questions are viewable on other federations—so their experts can see and answer questions that pertain to them, the same way you can answer questions they ask.

Can we have a list of where these federated sites are? Will it be made apparent on the website anywhere that this is happenning?

How come Fluther.com isn’t listed as a partner on their Bulletin board?

Wow. This is very disturbing to me. I don’t belong to any other social sites…and, this is my first. My first reaction is to have my account deleted. This is very disappointing.

@downtide I hope you don’t mind if I post the following two suggestions you made on a different question today. I think you have some good suggestions here, and it would help several people feel more comfortable when they post in the future. if your suggestions are implemented.

I think there needs to be:
1) A way of opting out of cross-posting, for your own question
2) An indication of where a question is cross-posted, available before a user chooses to respond to it.

This is all ridiculous. Our questions and answers our going to a larger audience now, this is a good thing. What’s wrong with opening the doors and letting other sites use the collective’s knowledge? The main fundamental purpose of Fluther is to help people solve problems, why should that only apply to sites with fluther.com in the domain? It’s not like this is some rogue website stealing all our collective knowledge, it’s still Fluther based.

Everyone is acting really foolish. “Oh, I’ll answer questions on this site, but not on that site.” If you opt out of your questions/answers being used for helping other people on other sites than I don’t see why you’re even here.

@J0E Point 1: No one is acting foolish because people were unaware of this stipulation.
Point 2: So you like the idea, big whoop, it’s just your opinion – where do you get off saying what others have to feel like about a site they feel safe on and then saying they should leave this site just because they don’t want to have their stuff read by randoms on other sites?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir No one has to agree with me, and I’m not forcing anyone to “feel” anything.

btw, “randoms” read your stuff on this site everyday.

@J0E They are my randoms, randoms I chose and return to, daily – people here (like on wis.dm) are my friends and aren’t like other strangers or are you going to give me that bs about people on the internet not being real friends and how you can’t form close connections? Because there has to be a reason why, after wis.dm died, you tried this and other sites like it? And you weren’t forcing anyone to ‘feel anything’ but you were telling them not to be on this site just because they voiced opinions about something opinions were asked about (note fluther owner’s comment upstairs) – or do you want to be on a site with a bunch of drones who give a shit less about their home? That’s quite unlike you.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
You know just as well as I do that the people who you know and call friends are not the only ones seeing your stuff. I have formed many close connections with people on here, but they are a small group compared to the many others who are not.

I absolutely was not telling anyone they couldn’t voice their opinion. If that’s what you got from my post…well you’re just plain wrong. I’m just giving my opinion like everyone else did. You can read it and agree or disagree.

@J0E Yes, I take the good with the bad but it’s still my choice – that’s the difference – that’s why wanting an opt-out or opt-in is a smart suggestion.

@J0E there is a reason i joined fluther and not yahoo answers.

Its opening a floodgate to more crap. Sure there is possibility for better people answering, but id rather stay in my gated community. I like it in here.

@J0E Questioning changes and new policies of a site we’re members of in a polite, reasonable way (as I think everyone here has done) is not foolish or ridiculous. Asking reasonable questions and getting good answers and feedback, as Bendew have been doing, is what this site is all about.

@uberbatman That’s where you are wrong. Fluther is not a gated community. A lot of people found this site by Google. A don’t think a gated community would be so open to outsiders.

@Likeradar You’re absolutely right, and we should share that.

@J0E sure, but its still far farrrrrr fewer less than if questions are poppin up on other sites too.

@J0E I don’t think a gated community would be so open to outsiders.

look how well the first few weeks of the wisdm migration went.~ I kid, kind of ;)

@J0E I’m not sure if I disagree with you. My point was that these changes were made without our knowledge and are confusing and we have questions about it, which you labeled ridiculous and foolish.

i hate saying it, but as fluther grows it just gets shittier and shittier. Why would i want it to get outsourced to a bunch of other sites?

This thread (and @uberbatman‘s last comment) reminds me of the quintessential tension that occurs as trends, whatever they may be, grow out of their nascency into something bigger. For example (and this is for you, @uberbatman), imagine you start to follow a local band. They’re a bit rough around the edges, but you like their music, and the scene is fantastic. You see them in tiny spaces and you and your buddies rave about how good they are. Eventually, they start to tour, playing shows at bars and bar mitzvahs. They start to build a following, and slowly but surely start to play larger venues (and ditch the bar mitzvahs and weddings). The scene is still awesome, and you can sense bigger and better things for them. Suddenly, they make the leap to stardom, are playing sold out shows at Madison Square Garden and aren’t touring in a beat up van and sleeping three to a bed, head-to-foot at Motel 6. The scene is now inundated with noobs who know nothing of the band’s roots, buy up all the tickets and generally “ruin the vibe”. You rue the fact that they’ve “sold out” or “aren’t true to their core fans”. Meanwhile, thousands of people are enjoying the music (way more than before), and the band has finally reached their potential (and are making a living out of it). In the end, you cannot have it both ways. If the band is awesome, people will want to join in the awesomeness.

Now, I recognize that that metaphor wasn’t exactly true to what is happening here. People (rightfully) object to this new trend. However, it seems that since the goals of the site are to get answers, and finding expert answers isn’t always easy, and threads on Fluther are easily found on Google (by random strangers), that having the Qs reposted somewhere else isn’t that much of an imposition.

@shilolo I think the biggest objection to this is the fact that most users didn’t know their questions were on different sites. That was my concern, and why I asked this question. I highly doubt when @rangiebaby asked “Who watches Whale Wars?”, she knew her question was going to be shown at Sierra Club. I have a feeling she was asking the community she has grown to know, not strangers from a different site. though I could be wrong

I think it is a wonderful idea to have the opportunity to receive help from sites that might have more knowledgeable users pertaining to the subject. If I have a question about energy saving light bulbs, that’s fine, but some more personal questions I ask I would rather they stay here at Fluther. I think it would be nice if we were given the option to allow our questions to be shown elsewhere.

@jonsblond Well, in defense of the Fluther founders, if you inspect the tags to the Q, it lists environment and extinction, which may explain why the Q was funneled (inadvertently) to the Sierra Club. I understand your concern, but considering most people here are anonymous (in contrast to Quora.com or aardvark.com), posting your anonymous Q somewhere else isn’t that far different from discovering one of your personal Qs on a simple google search, imho.

@shilolo I assumed that is why it ended up at Sierra. I did mention that in my details. I have no beef with the founders. I’m curious, would you be against an opt-out or opt-in?

I wouldn’t be against an opt-out or in feature, at all. Personally, if I had a specific Q like about organic foods, I would love to have it answered by “experts” (say, a Whole Foods employee at their website), but if I were asking about a personal issue, I might consider opting out.

@shilolo We agree on something for once. I can sleep better now. Good night! :)

@shilolo the problem with your example is you left out the part where most bands change their type of music to get there. I can list bands all day that are guilty of this. They changed. They arent what they used to be, its not because they became popular.

Fluther is sadly doing the same thing.

@uberbatman Maybe they change only because they change. You aren’t the same person you were 5 years ago, and you won’t be the same person 5 years from now. And, in any event, many bands stay with what they enjoy playing, irrespective of the popularity.

@shilolo and the bands that stay true to themselves are the ones i still listen to today. Popularity never effects my like or dislike of something. Loss of values and changing does on the other hand.

Its one thing to evolve with the music (or in this case tech), its other to sell out for money and fame.

Knowing the guys as we do, I think we can assume they have the best of intentions here. Namely, to build our community in a way that benefits the community. I do think they (well, we, now) could do a better job of communicating with members about stuff like this in the future.

Yeah. Trust that the guys have your back.
The other option is you could all opt out. Not you, awesome. We like you. ;)

Instead of an opt-out, which seems to me to paint this issue with a too broad brush, I would prefer an opt-in like they have already for funnelling questions to my facebook account. If I had a highly technical question that I wanted a greater audience on then I could check the box to release the question to the federated sites.

After getting to know the community there are some questions that I ask here that I would not ask anywhere else. I would like the ability to keep those questions here if I choose.

@tranquilsea I like that idea.

@liminal Thanks. I think it is important to give as much control as possible to the user.

@uberbatman As an aside, I think it is presumptuous of any fan to dictate to their band of interest what and how they should play. As the creative force behind the music, it is the band and the band only that can make these decisions. If you feel a band has “changed” or “sold out”, maybe they’ve just changed their style, or maybe your own tastes in music have changed but the band has stayed the same.

@tranquilsea opt-in is ALWAYS better.

@shilolo “As an aside, I think it is presumptuous of any fan to dictate to their band of interest what and how they should play.” So youd be totally cool with phish deciding ya know…fuck it… lets start playing pop music… why am i not allowed to dictate that? I like the band for a reason, if they deviate from that I stop liking them. Fine whatever they are following what they believe is a creative force or whatever, but its still shitty IMO so i will stop listening. As per my taste in music changing, unlikely, I have always been very very open to music in all forms, I just ask for talent and creativity.

I’d like the ability to opt (in or out) of each individual site that Fluther federates with. Some, like the Sierra Club, I have no problem with; others, I may want nothing to do with. My agreement to terms of service was with Fluther, not with any random site it may wish to affiliate with in future.

@shilolo I like your band analogy. In my experience, bigger and more popular does not necessarily mean better. Several groups that I enjoyed in the 60s and 70s, I wouldn’t give the time of day to in the 80s. I was affiliated for several years with a Q&A site that was, initially, much like Fluther; the quality went steadily downhill with increasing popularity, the founders lost control of the site to investors, R.I.P.

@uberbatman True, it is presumptuous to attempt dictating what the band plays. As with you, if the band’s output strays from my musical tastes, I won’t be buying any more of their recordings or concert tickets.

@downtide I agree with you. Opt-in gives one the chance to investigate the nature of the affiliated site in advance. Opt-out would put the onus on a cautious user to quickly shut off each new affiliation, then turn it back on again if investigation finds it acceptable. I understand that Facebook recently came under fire for that distinction in their privacy controls.