(NSFW) When do you tell someone about your sexual "difference"?

Well, if you’re not in a gay bar or a place where transsexuals usually hang out, and you’re, say, a man who’s “becoming” a woman, but your goodies down there are still male when the rest of you is female, i’d say you should let the man know who’s coming on to you – he may very well actually be expecting a female – it all depends on the situation.
Also, many people don’t care about your sexual history, but there are others that do, so informing them of your past would depend on the people at hand – you’ll learn this (ie what they want to know about you) as you get to know them.
(LOL to your kinks example). Anyway, those kinds of things can probably be left for discussion once the parties are actually thinking about having sex.
I’d also just find it odd for a man to stick a sock in his pants, i wouldn’t care about his explanation as i probably wouldn’t see him again, haha. I can’t speak for guys and their opinion about women wearing push up padded bras (to make them looking bigger) and stuff though.

First off, “Someone said a pre-op transsexual should let it be known when someone comes on to her.” – facepalm! Moving on…I guess I wouldn’t call it a difference…more like their perception is wrong of either your sexuality or gender expression, which is fine…happens all the time. The right time to tell is when you feel comfortable. If a person is so insecure as to think ‘my god, she should have told me about that penis of hers…now, I’m the victim, blah blah blah’...so may it be, they’re not worth bothering with, anyway.

This is a really interesting question. I’m not sure that people should reveal that information immediately. Some may say it would be ‘leading them on’ not to, but we’re all different really. People should like to get to know each other before that becomes an issue and I don’t think it’s necessary to isolate yourself as people can be quick to judge and scared of things different to them or their ‘norm’. Personally, I would want to know if someone had slept with one of my friends or family before I slept with them, but I think it’d be my friends or family who would tell me that not the person, at which point I’d choose not to be involved with them at all. If two people were looking for a one night stand or just a sexual relationship and they were clear in that when flirting with eachother I think a pre-op/transexual would have to tell the other person before they had any physical contact due to attraction. I think the only issue with unusual body parts or false advertising is insecurity and if the partner can accept the other person for who they are then great, if not they shouldn’t be with them.

I think you should tell someone when something needs to be told as soon as there is an apparent attraction, but after there has been time for a connection to be formed.

@marinelife thanks for summarising my answer haha, I have to learn to ramble less!

To my mind, it’s at least second date conversation, or at least after the first date. You don’t even know until after the first date if you want another date, anyway.

Well, I think everyone on fluther knows by now that I’m a transsexual (female to male)...

To be honest I don’t think I would tell until it started to get intimate. And that’s not the sort of thing I would do on a first (or even a second) date. On the other hand I don’t “pass” terribly well, so it’s not someting that arises for me at the moment. Ask me again in 5 years and maybe my answer will be different.

Us transmen have it a bit easier than transwomen. For one thing, transmen blend into society much more easily and are in some ways more accepted. For another thing, women tend to be more willing to experiment sexually and are less likely to be trans-phobic than straight men. Women are often more able to fall in love first, and worry about dealing with the sexual differences later. Straight men, less so.

One thing I will stress though. Telling someone that I am male, is not a lie. Regardless of my biology, I have never been female.

@downtide great input :)

I hope it’s not too personal to ask and please refuse to answer if you feel uncomfortable at all, but what’s your opinion on the need to tell a one night stand or purely sexual partner about a trans-sexual operation before sexual contact with them or do you think that’s a non-issue?

I always tell people I’m a transman right away if it’s someone I’m interested in. I don’t want to waste my time on people who don’t get it.

@loser how do you go about that? I wouldn’t know what to say.

When it becomes relevant. So that’s usually “never” for me. I talk about it if it comes up in conversation—as it often does on Fluther—but I’m entirely disinterested in that sort of relationship in “real life” so it’s not something that I ever need to bring up myself.

@loser How soon is right away? When someone starts flirting with you, or…?

@ninahenry for a post-op male to female transsexual who’s had everything done, it’s a non-issue. Even naked, you would not be able to tell the difference between her and an natural-born woman. For everyone else (female-to-male post-op, and pre-op everybody) it’s obvious as soon as you get naked so you’d have to tell at least when the clothes came off.

As for myself I’m so far pre-op that people can tell even before I take my clothes off. I get most people assuming I’m a butch lesbian and they’re always incredibly shocked when they find out my partner is a man.

@downtide thanks for answering! I didn’t want to be rude but you answered perfectly.

yaaaaay!

It depends on the setting. Let’s say (for example) you’re a MTF who just met a straight man and are talking and getting to know each other.

So where are you???

Are you at work, maybe having lunch together at the Starbucks down the street from your office? At such a non-sexual setting, it’s probably not wise or appropriate to talk about something so personal right away, and there’s still of time to reveal your secret.

Or are you in a crowded nightclub on a Saturday night? Then it depends… Are you just exchanging numbers? Then it can still wait. But is it likely that you’re going to go home together? Then you need to tell your secret before anything physical happens. I suppose you can wait until you get to his house or he gets to yours, but that’s cutting it close. You don’t want to face rejection after you have your clothes off, that would be very unpleasant.

Are you in a gay bar? Okay, so what’s a straight guy doing in a gay bar, hooking up with a woman? He should know right there that there’s more to you than is obvious.

Are you in a BDSM club? Then anything is possible. If it’s a concern for him, he needs to come out and ask you for specifics: your biological sex, your gender identification, your orientation, etc., etc. And you need to be honest with him.

Have you met in a chat room online? Then it can wait, but should come out before you meet in person, especially if either of you are traveling a long distance to get to the other. More than once, I’ve come out and asked someone if she’s a biological female under such circumstances.

Of course, regardless of any of the above, you should tell your potential partner before anything physical happens, whether you’re pre-op or post op. Especially if you’re post-op and there’s no way to tell.

How about, for a straight person, around the same time that you would tell a person that you’re incapable of having children. Which would be pretty early on in a relationship that looks like it could get serious.

@Dutchess_III – That’s not really a good analogy. A straight couple can get physical before it’s appropriate to talk about children. But a straight person needs to know if their partner was born male or female before any intimacy occurs.

After the tongue goes in the mouth. ;-)

@HungryGuy Not necessarily. In the case of a male-to-female transsexual, who has had all the surgery, and it was good surgery, there is nothing about her, physically, that would distinguish her from a woman who was born female*. The only reason I can think of for her partner needing to know before they have sex, is homophobia.

*There are some differences that can’t be corrected – she might be taller, have narrower hips, bigger feet etc. But nothing that doesn’t also fall within the possible range for biological women.

@downtide – If she had had all the surgery and there is no way to tell, then it is even more important that she tell her prospective partner before any intimacy occurs.

And I resent your accusation that all straight people are homophobic for no other reason than because they’re straight. That’s simply not true, and is heterophobia of gay people who believe that.

I agree @HungryGuy. I’m not homophobic, but I would really appreciate knowing if the guy I was dating was born a women, like on the first date.

@Dutchess_III – Thanks! I’m definitely not homphobic, but I believe I have as much right to be straight as a gay person has to be gay, and as much right a transsexual has to be transexual.

Now, it bothers me that three gay people gave downtide lurve. That means that gay people believe they have a right to be gay (as do I), but gay people don’t believe that I have a right to be straight and that I’m a homophobe simply because I’m straight. That’s hypocrisy!

@HungryGuy I’m not gay and I gave @downtide lurve, I’m just open to allowing transexual people to feel like human beings.

Okay, you don’t like being called homophobic. How about transphobic? Because you’re most definitely that.

And thanks, @ninahenry. I wish there were more people like you, and fewer like @HungryGuy. :(

@MacBean yeah, it’s a completely different thing. People are scared enough of making themselves vulnerable by being intimate with anyone else, so it is very easy for people (especially straight people) to have prejudice against transsexual people and not let go of the fact that they are no longer the sex they were physically born. I don’t think transsexual people and gay people should be forced into the same category so that they can simply be ignored. Transsexual people can be just as straight as non-transexual people.

I just don’t get why. If there is no physical difference, why do you NEED to know? It does not affect their capability of having sex or a relationship. The only thing they can’t do is have children but the same is true of many non-transsexuals too. Why not just accept them as they are at face value?

Is it that if this person is trans you suddenly change your mind about wanting to have sex/a relatonship with them? If your answer is yes you are transphobic. If your answer is no, you do not need to know because it would change nothing.

@HungryGuy I believe that anyone has the right to be straight. Having sex with a transsexual woman does not make an man gay because she is a woman. That’s my whole point.

@MacBean – You said it. Gay people have a right to be gay, but straight people don’t have the right to be straight. You believe in rights only for gays, but not equivalent rights for straight people. That’s your opinion. Whereas my opinion is that straight people have as much right to be straight, as gay and trans people have to be gay and trans. You don’t like that and wish there were fewer people like me who truly believe in equal rights. And if the definition of trasphobic is to believe in right of a straight person to be straight, then I’m transphobic. So be it.

I can’t see anywhere that @MacBean said straight people don;t have the right to be straight.

Additionally I did not say that straight people are automatically homophobic. This is quite obviously not true at all. I said that needing to know a trans-person’s status prior to having sex, if the answer causes a change of mind, is homophobic.

The act of refusing sex with a transsexual woman only because she once had male parts, is homophobic/transphobic (I believe it’s homophobic if the reason is that the straight man is afraid of being thought of as gay because he had sex with a transwoman).

@HungryGuy I just checked and I, too, am one of the ppl. who gave @downtide a Lurve point for his answer. I am straight, so chalk it up to a poor assumption on your side. In fact, your whole answer in that post rings wrong with me.

@HungryGuy: I think you’re delusional if you think you believe in equal rights while also thinking that a post-op transperson should have to reveal that they’ve undergone reassignment.

@MacBean haha, you could not be more right.

@MacBean – I was going to reply, “And I wish there were less people like you.” But I’m not going to stoop to your level. Unlike you (and the rest who’ve chimed in subsequently), I believe there is plenty of room in the world for straigt people, gay people, and trans people. And unlike you, believe I have as much right to be straight as you have to be gay or trans.

If you were born male, you are delusional if you think you’ve become a woman just because you’ve had surgery to change your genitals. Now, I don’t begrudge you that right, or the right to find happiness with a life partner, but I’d be mad as hell if I had sex with a someone who later revealed that he’s a man with female genitals.

@HungryGuy you just don’t get trans-people, but there’s no need to be degrading towards them. Stop being phobic and living in the past, Fluther’s not the place for hatin’.

@HungryGuy Wow, you are disgustingly narrow-minded. Disgustingly. For the record, I am a male with female genitals. I have had no transitional surgeries. I have always been and will always be male, regardless of what is in my pants. Feel free to say and think otherwise; you’ll just be incorrect and sound ignorant and intolerant.

You know, I actually have got to the point where I simply don’t care any more what gender people like @HungryGuy think I am. I know what I am, and the people that are important in my life know what I am, and that’s enough. Some others will just never understand. It’s like trying to convince the average medieval person that the world is not flat. Totally futile.

@downtide ♥ to you. I’m not there yet. Every once in a while they can still get under my skin. And in this case I feel like I’m back in the Rosa Parks era, hearing someone say “I believe in equal rights, but them niggers oughtta keep to the back of the bus.” It’s more infuriating to me than the average bigot.

@HungryGuy I don’t think that anyone is saying you don’t have a right to be straight. But @downtide is questioning why it would be important to know if your partner is a transsexual. That question does leave me a bit speechless, I have to admit. The people on here who are much more articulate than I, and who could help me pinpoint why I’d be concerned aren’t participating! But I’ll think about it and see what I come up with. (I’m really tired! Not conducive to philosophical thinking!)

@downtide Let’s say you’ve met someone and it’s getting serious. Like, “Let’s get married” serious. Would you tell them of your birth circumstances, or would you not?

@MacBean – No. Actually you are the one being hateful and narrow minded. I started here by answering the question with my opinion of when it is appropriate to inform a potential partner of your “difference.” Apparently, you all have no tolerance for differences of opinion and can’t have a discussion without labelling people hateful and homophobic for disagreeing with you. If you are typical of most trans and gay people, no wonder gay and trans people are having trouble getting accepted. You are all so full of hate and intolerance that you are disgusting!

Again, if your petty little minds can be made to understand., I have no objection to sharing the world with gay and trans folk. None whatsoever. Live and let live. If that’s your definition of being x-phobic, then you’re sick and twisted!

But I’m straight. I have a right to be straight. Now, no doubt that you can convince some straight men who are ignorant of science that a man can become a woman simply through surgery. But the cold hard fact is that your sex is determined by your chromosomes. If you have two X chromosomes, you are female. If you have an X and a Y chromosome, you are a male. Your chromosomes, in turn, determine your body chemistry and hormones that your body produces. That’s not living in the past—that’s science, pure and simple, whether you like it or not. And If that offends you, then flame the deity of your choice, for he/she/it is the hateful x-phobe, not me!

BTW, if you were born with female genitals, why do you say you are male? If you have been found to be male genetically, yet with female genitals, then you are the unfortunate victim of some very rare genetic syndrome. And if that’s so, I’m sure you’ve consulted an army of doctors by now, and you know more about your particular case than I do.

And if you refuse to tell someone of your “change” because you feel it’s none of their business, that’s patently dishonest.

@HungryGuy Why are you clubbing everyone together? I don’t think you’re homophobic, I’m neither trans nor gay, nor am I full of hate.

@HungryGuy: When cisgender people are required to disclose upon first meeting someone that they were born with the genitals they currently have, then come back and we’ll talk about transgender people having to disclose that they were not.

Also, the only thing I’m hating here is people like you, who reduce people like me to something freakish and try to impose ridiculous and unequal rules on us, while claiming to be a supporter of equal rights. If you ever pull your head out of your ass and get a clue what you’re talking about, come back and I’ll consider continuing this discussion. Until then, you’re just another willfully ignorant transphobic privileged waste of space and air whose uninformed argument does nothing more than lower the IQs of those who hear/read it. Good day.

@HungryGuy,
I think, though I have no real life experience, but from reading this argument, I think you have offended the likes of @MacBean and @downtide because you do not fully understand what it means to be transgender. Ok, you are right about the chromosomes in terms of body. But, scientists simply cannot hope to claim that they understand every working of the human brain and consciousness. So what is obviously hard for you to accept is that while someone may have male chromosomes or female chromosomes, their mind, consciousness, spirit, soul, whatever you want to call it- identifies with a gender- and it is not necessarily the same gender as is determined by the chromosomes. So when someone, who is a female in a male body for example, when they have always identified as female, gets the surgery to make their body female too, then that’s what they are, all in all. Female. They are not a man with a female body. They are a female with a female body. And, unless they want to, or unless it’s obviously going to change their partner’s mind and they should get out of the relationship anyway, it should not be a written requirement to tell their partner straight off.

That’s my understanding of it…. someone please correct me if I’m wrong… but I just wanted to put it out there in case that was the issue that had caused the communication breakdown.

@Dutchess_III If I’m discussing marriage then I’m assuming we’d got past the “seeing me naked” part. If they’d seen me naked, they’d know at first glance. For an FTM there’s no way to avoid disclosing it at that stage. I would discuss it before getting naked – to prepare them for the shock.

@shrubbery This:
“So when someone, who is a female in a male body for example, when they have always identified as female, gets the surgery to make their body female too, then that’s what they are, all in all. Female. They are not a man with a female body. They are a female with a female body. ”
... is exactly right. Thankyou.

@downtide You kind of answered your own question, and helped me out too. You asked WHY it was necessary for them to even know? Because, as you said, it would be a shock. I guess the next question to be answered is why would it be a shock? This is brand new territory for most of us. It’s just like anything else that requires a massive change in the way we think. It just doesn’t happen overnight, or even in 2 generations….

@ninahenry – Sorry… And thanks! Consider yourself “unclubbed” :-)

@HungryGuy :)

@MacBean – (I am speaking only to you and not making generalizations about anyone else)

Hate (transitive) To dislike intensely; to feel strong hostility towards.

Your accusation of hate is totally unfounded. I do not hate you or anyone in the gay or trans community. I have not done anything to you that has harmed you physically. I have not discriminated against you in any way. I have repeatedly said (here and in other threads) that I believe in equality of all people under the law. I haven’t said anything that can even remotely be construed as hate.

We disagree on the scientific and physiological definitions of what it means to be male or female. That is not hate. To the contrary, your statement that you wish there were less people in the world like me can be construed as hate. Does anyone else here see your hypocrisy?

I have also expressed my opinion (as the question requested) that a person should disclose their “differences” at a certain point in their relationship. Being that (1) I believe that you are not a woman unless you were born with female genitals and certain other physiological criteria, and (2) that it is my right to refuse sexual relations with another man, I feel that it is my right to know before we get intimate. That is not hate. It is a difference of opinion.

Nor has anything I said been based in ignorance. I am fairly well educated in science, biology, and medicine if I may say so. Your accusations against those who merely disagree with you on scientific points only shows that it is you who are guilty of hate and ignorance.

I see now that you are in a victim culture, taking your own hate and turning it against anyone who is different from you. Bleh.

@HungryGuy, just curious, what say you to my little thought on the matter? I addressed it to you and just want to know what you think :)

@downtide the “shock” in my case would be that I don’t have a penis. That would be a shock if a partner was expecting me to have one. In the case of a post-op male-to-female transsexual, the partner is expecting her to have a normal-looking, functioning vagina, which she would have.

Totally different situation, IMO.

@HungryGuy what? Do you not understand how diminishing it feels for a trans person to be simply expected by people like you to suffer with their problem their whole lives and not do anything about it incase someone they met didn’t like it? Do you not believe people should be true to themselves?

“I do not hate you or anyone in the gay or trans community. I have not done anything to you that has harmed you physically. I have not discriminated against you in any way. I have repeatedly said (here and in other threads) that I believe in equality of all people under the law. I haven’t said anything that can even remotely be construed as hate.” - you have done almost all these things and you’ve certainly done this too- “I see now that you are in a victim culture, taking your own hate and turning it against anyone who is different from you”

There is no need to call @MacBean a hypocrite, as he has told you he hates people like you, and is not denying it; On the contrary you have consistently deduced things illogically and contradicted yourself.

“I believe I have as much right to be straight as a gay person has to be gay, and as much right a transsexual has to be transexual” voids the whole argument.

“Apparently, you all have no tolerance for differences of opinion and can’t have a discussion without labelling people hateful and homophobic for disagreeing with you”

You also have no tolerance for our differing opinion, and can’t have a discussion without labelling people gay and heterophobic for disagreeing with you.

I certainly do not accept your apology as you’ve categorized me so much and insulted me personally; You’ve labelled me and @Pied_Pfeffer gay when we’re straight, said I was full of hate and intolerance, that I have a petty little mind, called me disgusting and also stated what I believe, that you don’t “have a right to be straight and that [you’re] a homophobe simply because [you’re] straight”, which I do not believe or I’d be calling myself homophobic, and you already pointed out that I’m obviously~ gay. As I said before, Fluther’s not the place for hating, but I think @MacBean has the right to ‘feel hostile towards’ you after you said all those things to the people who disagree with you.

@MacBean‘s quote ”I believe in equal rights, but them niggers oughtta keep to the back of the bus” is so fitting to your statement “Again, if your petty little minds can be made to understand., I have no objection to sharing the world with gay and trans folk”, yeah, as long as trans people don’t interact with society.

Don’t even get me started on “I was going to reply, “And I wish there were less people like you.” But I’m not going to stoop to your level.” – EPIC FAIL.

@shrubbery – You’re right. I don’t fully understand what it means to be transgender. But I have a right to be straight. And that means being able to exclude certain people from sexual relations based on long-held definitions of what it means to be male and female.

Have you ever been turned down for a date by somebody you’ve asked out? Of course! We all have! And for seemingly arbitrary and unfair reasons. We don’t have the right to exclude people for jobs and housing and other public exchanges, but we all do have the right to exclude people as potential sexual partners for arbitrary reasons. Maybe (to trans and intersex people) my reasons are arbitrary and unjust, but they’re my reasons and I have a right to them.

If you were born, for example, with male genitals but identify as female, that’s certainly your right and I hold no ill will toward you (and I mean “you” generically, not personally @shrubbery). But I also have certain rights. Your rights shouldn’t take priority over mine because you think you are somehow more “enlightened” than me about what it means to be male and female.

And I agree with you that, perhaps, there are alternatives to revealing their “difference” too early in a relationship. As you suggest, just hold off on sex and say something like, “I’m not ready for intimacy yet,” without giving a reason.

@HungryGuy no comment?

@ninahenry – No matter what I say, you’re going to call me a homphobe and a hater simply for having a difference of opinion that’s not “politically correct.” Why bother?

@HungryGuy Um, scroll upwards to that post where I said I don’t think you’re homophobic. I think with my quotes you’ll find you were hateful (cough disgusting, petty, etc cough). If you wish to carry on making highly inaccurate assumptions, you need to go grab that metaphorical crow bar I just threw at your face and use it to open your mind just a little. I do not wish to be categorized by you. Re-read my post please, I re-read yours to balance the argument in my head, and you continue to come off as unjustified in your statements. Your reasons are your own, but your statements are ridiculous. Thanks for the much needed apology~, I too find you disgusting.

off with my tentacles, I swim out of the whirlpool of ignorance, weeee!

@HungryGuy I, as well, don’t fully understand what it means to be trans-gender. If any of my friends are, they have never discussed it with me. I’ve watched some documentaries on it, and that has helped me to show empathy in a thread like this. I cannot display sympathy because I have not walked in their shoes when dealing with people who judge their gender identity.

Yes, you have a right to your own opinion. Some are just trying to help you open your eyes to a side of humanity that exists which, while not common, is also not a one-off. It is the roll of the genetic dice.

There are some straight people who, while attempt to grasp the fact that there is more than two types of sexual attraction, fail to do so for the same reason you have given:

“And that means being able to exclude certain people from sexual relations based on long-held definitions of what it means to be male and female.”

It is okay. My 85 year-old mother is the same way. It just means that the two of you, and many others, aren’t as open-minded on this particular subject. I suspect that she will go to her grave never getting it. I still love her. I do, however, hold out some hope for you.

@downtide Well, sure they would expect you to have a penis, but why should it matter if you don’t!? You’re still the same person, with or without a penis! Plus, penises’ are over-rated! It gets tricky, you know?

@Dutchess_III Oh I agree with you there but unfortunately most straight women, and most gay men, think a penis is important when having sex.

@downtide Silly people!

@Pied_Pfeffer – All right. I stand corrected. You are absoutely correct, and I am absolutely wrong. Only trans people have rights. Nobody else has rights. Trans people should never have to be exposed to an opinion contrary to their own, even when such opinions are solicited. Nobody should ever be permitted to express an opinion that contradicts the opinion of a trans person, under penalty of death and torture. Further, it should be illegal for a straight male to reject a trans female as a sex partner, and visa versa. Also, this business of chromosomes and genes and science and biology is just so much ignorance and hate. The definitions of male and female are whatever your whim dictates you are. The earth is flat. The sun orbits the moon. Praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Okay, can’t keep my mouth shut about this one.

”Only trans people have rights. Nobody else has rights.”

Not one single fucking person has said anything even remotely like that. What has been said is that post-op transwomen, who are absolutely 100% the same as naturally born cisgender women, should be under absolutely no obligation to ever mention that they were born with a penis if they don’t feel it’s necessary. If you had sex with one, it would not make you gay, and if you think it would, you are either horribly misinformed or flat-out stupid. Not just ignorant, which is more about the former than the latter. Actually unintelligent.

Only privileged people see equal treatment as discrimination, and that’s exactly what you’re doing. Trans people have next to no rights in the world today. If you see allowing them a little dignity—giving them the right to be accepted as they are like everybody else in the world—as discriminating against your “straight rights” then you need some fucking therapy.

By the way, do you also have “white pride” to go along with your “straight rights” and distaste for “heterophobia”? You are one of the most fucking ridiculous human beings I have ever had the displeasure to cross paths with.

OOoOo why are some transgender people so angry and bitter?

Since when was Yahoo Answers an accurate sampling of public opinion?

@MacBean – It is just plain evil to make racist accusations like that against people because they disagree with you.

@HungryGuy What’s worse, denying a whole group of people their dignity and basic human rights, or asking an individual who proudly promotes their entitlement in one area if they feel the same about another area? Hm…

@HungryGuy And, for the record, my problem with you isn’t that you disagree with me. I’m used to that. But most of the intolerant idiots are arguing that people like me are lesser people and don’t deserve the same rights. My problem with you is that you fail to see your hopeless bigotry and continue to claim you believe in equality even when your blatant discrimination is pointed out to you.

@MacBean – You accused me of ignorance, but [removed by Fluther]. In order to discriminate against you, I’d have to say you shouldn’t have the same rights as anyone else. If you’ve read everything I’ve written, I NEVER said that or even implied that! You’re just making that up! You’re [removed by Fluther]

Since you’re obviously [removed by Fluther], I’ll summarise what I said in two points:

1.) I have a different definition of what it means to be male or female than you do. And, for the sake of argument, I’ll grant that it is an opinion.

2.) I believe I have a right to choose who to have sex with based on my definition of male and female. If you think that it’s discrimination against you for someone to not want to have sex with you, tough titties!

That’s it! That’s all that I’ve been saying.

The worst you can accuse me of is saying things that have been less than tactful (and you’re just as guilty of that, also). But to tell me that I’m ignorant, or hateful, or that I’m discriminating against anyone, just shows your own intolerance, ignorance, and hate of people who have different opinions than you.

@HungryGuy ”In order to discriminate against you, I’d have to say you shouldn’t have the same rights as anyone else.”

You most definitely have said that and it has been pointed out to you. And, as I’ve said, that is my problem with you. You are discriminatory and are completely blind to it.

But you know what? Never mind. [removed by Fluther] So you win. I’m totally heterophobic and hateful toward all straight people. It’s outrageous of me to think I’m a human being who deserves any sort of respect or dignity. Silly of me to even imagine going into a relationship without a resume listing every detail of my past. Why should I or anyone like me have the same rights as cisgender people? Seriously. I have no idea what I was even thinking.

[mod says] Flame off, folks.

[removed by Fluther] if you’re going to delete the end of the conversation, you might as well get rid of the rest of it, too. It’s all equally as fucking pointless.

[mod says] Answers have been restored. Personal attacks removed via internal edit.
No more name-calling, you two.

♥ I feel better now. Thank you.

@augustlan – It just burns me up when someone thinks they have a “morally superior” position, and that having a “morally superior” position justifies lying and slandering people to further their cause.

So if I’m not allowed to defend myself against his false accusations, slander, and lies, then please remove every one of my answers to this question (including this one) and edit my screen name out of all others…

@HungryGuy Not too sure who you think was lying or slandering. As far as I can see, everything everyone has said to you here has been a reply to things that you actually said. So if you don’t want to be called out on ridiculous opinions, maybe keep them to yourself. Then nobody will be able to point out how backward your thinking is, and you won’t get all butthurt about it.

@HungryGuy Since people are reading what you’ve written as hate and discrimination, obviously it can be construed that way. A major part of communication is how it’s interpreted by your audience. I’d go so far as to say that’s the MAIN part of it. What you meant to say doesn’t really matter if that’s not how people understand it.

Crap, I hate afterthoughts that come when the edit button has disappeared.

Also, please note the difference between “You are racist” and “Do you have ‘white pride’?” and stop playing the fucking victim. You (and others, I’m sure) will probably find that funny coming from me but, seriously, is there a privileged societal majority that you aren’t part of? Stop crying discrimination. If your demographic had it any easier, people would be wiping your asses for you.

@augustlan time to archive? This is endlessly debatable and painful.

I never thought I’d want to stop following one of my own questions…

@Likeradar ((hugs))

Yes, it is painful, and both sides are just repeating themselves now.

Everyone knows that trans people believe that differences of opinion = hate, and that if I try to defend myself against lies, I’m making a personal attack.

So I’m stopping following this question now.

@HungryGuy yaaaaaaaaay :)